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#2271321 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by Arxkanite on 14 December 2013 - 10:06 PM

On Wednesday, December 18th between 4pm and 6pm (EST), ElitistJerks will be hosting an exclusive Q&A session with Lead PvP Designer for the upcoming MMO, The Elder Scrolls Online.

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance’s top player could even be crowned Emperor!

Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online.


Update: This forum is now locked for new questions. Brian has stated that he wishes to answer some unanswered questions as he has time.

If you would like to continue discussing Elder Scrolls Online, please do so here:http://forums.elitis...scrolls-online/

Thank you very much for your time Brian. And thank you Zenimax for loaning him to us today. Good luck, and I can't wait for ESO to come out!

Answer Index:

New Questions and Answers (12/23):

  • Arxkanite, MysticalOS, Last_God and 4 others like this

#2139430 [Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.4, Guide and Discussion

Posted by Hamlet on 24 September 2012 - 12:44 AM



This is a compendium of information on serious PvE (raiding and challenge modes) as a Balance Druid. It contains everything a beginner needs to achieve basic competence at DPS, as well more detailed discussion for people more interested in understanding the theory or more advanced play. The article is supplemented by the attached spreadsheet.

Anyone posting on the thread should have a good familiarity with the current state of Moonkin theory, either from this guide or from anywhere else. At the very least, do not ask questions that are directly answered in the guide; they will be infracted. It's good to be familiar with things that have been discussed on the thread as well, we start new thread each patch so they don't get too long. In particular, know what's been discussed on the last few pages before posting.

In addition, I tend to discuss any Druid research/theorycraft work I do on Twitter:
Jay (HamletEJ) on Twitter
And I upload videos of myself playing various boss encounters here (currently on hiatus from raiding, but have some challenge mode content here in MoP):
Arawethion's Channel

Some of my current WoW theorycraft goes on this blog:
Warcraft | It's Dangerous to Go Alone

Talents, Glyphs, Skills, and Race


Talents are very different from what they used to be before MoP. For the most part they provide utility-type benefits whose value is dependent on a particular situation. As such, there's no general-purpose correct set of talents, and very often choice of correct talents will depend on your understanding of a particular encounter. I expect much of the discussion on the thread will be about talent choice for specific purposes. For now, some general comments on each tier:

The talent list, for reference.


  • Level 15: Passive movement speed is a strong bonus in PvE. Displacer Beast's blink ability can be very useful as well, but requires a GCD afterwards to get back into Moonkin Form, so less attractive for Balance than it is for Resto.
  • Level 30: Ysera's Gift and Cenarion Ward are capable of similar amounts of healing, but Ysera's Gift doesn't require any GCD's or attention from you.
  • Level 45: This is entirely up to what version of crowd control is best suited to a particular situation.
  • Level 60: The first DPS talent. Force of Nature is the strongest single-target DPS talent and is very flexible in timing. It does not get stronger on multiple targets, however (it actually gets slightly weaker since the Treants can be confused when a target dies). Incarnation is also good, and is a strong choice when you need a controlled burst or want to multi-DoT or AoE heavily.
  • Level 75: Once again, 3 crowd control choices. All have potential applications in raids, with Bash and Roar in particular both giving added abilities to interrupt the casting of small mobs.
  • Level 90: The second DPS talent. Heart of the Wild outpaces Nature's Vigil for average DPS, and Nature's Vigil having only a 12% damage boost means it doesn't get too much better due to timer stacking. HotW also gives you a very strong raid cooldown in the form of HotW-Tranquility. Dream of Cenarius competes with HotW on paper, but it extends your Eclipse cycle and is heavily disrupted by movement.


Talent/Skill Details

  • Eclipse. The base Eclipse bonus is 15%, and the 15% from Total Eclipse stacks on top of that. The damage bonus is multiplicative. Spells provide Eclipse energy when they complete, and in a change from Cataclysm, the subsequent queued spell will now be correctly affected by entering/exiting Eclipse. If your Mastery rating changes during the Eclipse, the damage bonus changes dynamically.
  • Balance of Power: Your base Spirit is not included in the hit rating conversion, only bonus Spirit (green number in the tooltip).
  • Moonkin Form: The damage bonus is multiplicative. The spell haste buff does not stack with Wrath of Air Totem or with the Priest talent Improved Shadowform.
  • Owlkin Frenzy: This can proc from physical or magical damage, but many boss abilities which hit the player frequently do not proc it.
  • Force of Nature: The Treants spam this Wrath spell, and inherit your hit chance, crit chance, and haste. The Treants will attack whichever mob hates you the most. They have 90% reduction against AoE damage in PvE, allowing them to survive most boss abilities.
  • Sunfire: Identical to Moonfire in all respects except appearance and damage type.
  • Starfall: This will not fire stars when your character is stunned, and the buff will drop entirely if you shift into a Feral form. The worst use is against a single target, where you only get 10 stars. Against multiple targets, you will get 20 stars total. Each star checks your current spellpower at the time it is fired. Stars will only hit enemies that are aggroed onto a target or are under 100% HP.
  • Heart of the Wild: Stacks multiplicatively with Mark of the Wild and Astral Leather Specialization.

One miscellaneous point of mechanics that people should understand: DoT's read their spellpower, haste, and crit values, and any %damage buffs, at the moment they are cast. These do not update while the DoT is ticking. Target debuffs, however, do update dynamically.


Major Glyphs

Very slim pickings here. The only Major Glyph that affects our DPS is [Glyph of Guided Stars], which you can use if needed to avoid Starfall damage on meaningless targets. [Glyph of Rebirth] is useful in any raid situation, but not as critical now that the default Rebirth has been increased to 60% HP. Otherwise, use any Glyph that provides meaningful utility at a given fight. [Glyph of Stampeding Roar] and [Glyph of Stampede] have some minor all-purpose value.

Minor Glyphs

None of these add any DPS, so it's entirely up to personal taste.
Glyph of Grace is the only one that affects game mechanics, and could be of occasional benefit.


Horde: Troll is best for DPS, since it gives Berserking and Beast Slaying. Tauren gives no DPS benefit.
Alliance: Worgen is best for DPS, since it gives 1% crit (Darkflight is also a nice perk). Night Elf gives no DPS benefit.


To be clear on how Symbiosis works, when you cast it on a target:

  • Your Symbiosis button changes into a new spell based on the target's class and your spec.
  • Their Symbiosis button changes into a new spell based on their class and their spec.

Spells the Balance Druid can gain are:

Here is a handy chart of all spells the target gains.

Make sure to check the tooltips linked above for the Druid's acquired version of these spells, as they are not always the same as the native class's version.

None of the options add any DPS, so you should be making situation-specific utility choices. The best general-purposes options are Undying Resolve, Anti-Magic Shell, and Cloak of Shadows for personal survivability.



In roughly descending order of importance.

Intellect provides 1 spellpower and 0.00039% to crit per point. With Mark of the Wild, Heart of the Wild, and Astral Leather Specialization, it provides 1.169 spellpower and 0.00046% crit (2168 points per 1% crit, about 3.5 times weaker than 1 crit rating).

Now that this only appears on weapons, the only relevance is that it ensures that higher-ilvl weapons are virtually always upgrades.

340 hit/expertise rating gives 1% to hit with spells, up to the cap of 5100 rating (15%) against a level 93 target. 1 Spirit and 1 hit/expertise rating are identical for gear selection purposes (if you ever play Resto at all you probably want to gem Spirit). You always want to reforge so as to keep hit as close to the cap as possible. Remember that hit rating over the cap does nothing, so you need to reforge hit to other stats if you gear has more than this amount (see below).

Haste rating:
425 haste rating gives 1% spell haste. Haste is generally a strong stat until you reach 10296 rating, which causes your instant spells to hit the minimum 1 second GCD (with Moonkin Form and Nature's Grace).
Haste adds extra DoT ticks at certain points. Assuming the haste benefits of Moonkin Form and Nature's Grace, breakpoints occur at 5273, 10289, and 15318 (see WrathCalcs for more). With the 4-piece T14 bonus, they are instead at 3706, 8089, and 12517.
Haste also increases the proc frequency of some trinkets and enchants, through the RPPM system.

Critical strike rating:
600 crit rating gives 1% to crit. With a Burning or Revitalizing meta, crits do 2.06 times the damage of non-crits, otherwise 2.00 times. Crit and haste generally spreadsheet as very similar in value as long as haste is under the GCD cap. As crit rating gets very high, is value decays someone because the added Starsurge procs (much of the value of crit) are harder to use every time and are sometimes wasted.

Mastery rating:
320 mastery rating adds 1% to our Eclipse bonus, added to the 30% we have to start with. Generally our weakest secondary stat. However, in high T16 gear when your crit can your exceed mastery by 10000 rating or more, the sustained value of crit and mastery starts to become roughly equal. WrathCalcs can help you see when they equalize for you for purposes of sustained DPS. At that point the value of mastery in your opening burst (which is all done under Eclipse) can make it worth keeping some.

Stat Priority

The stat priority at the moment can be summarized as:
Int >> hit (to cap) > haste (to cap) => crit = excess hit (reforged to crit)* > mastery > half Int (gems) > haste (beyond cap)

*The "real" per-point value of hit rating is largely irrelevant, as you always gear/reforge so as to remain hit capped. Therefore the effective value of hit/Spirit/expertise on gear is equal to whatever stat you reforge in/out of to account for the excess hit (crit or haste)


Since gems are changed in MoP to have half as much Int as other stats, all colors of gems are nearly equal in value. As a result, always match colors in each socket. A far as the "second half" of each gem, haste and crit are very closely matched (or even crit and mastery at very high gear levels); you can check WrathCalcs for an exact comparison in your gear.

So for example, if you meet your hit and haste goals and want straight crit, you would gem:

*These slots are tricky. See the note above about the value of excess hit. For basic use, use whichever makes it more convenient to stay at hit cap, the Int or the hit/spirit/expertise version. Advanced players should choose based on whether the excess hit can actually be cashed into haste/crit rating through reforging.

Set Bonuses

Both of our tier 14 (Regalia of the Eternal Blossom) set bonuses are in the expected range, roughly 2% DPS. Use them when you have access to them.

The tier 15 (Regalia of the Haunted Forest) set bonuses are both upgrades over the T14 equivalents, so move to them as soon as you have the gear.

The tier 16 (Regalia of the Shattered Vale) set bonuses are both quite strong as well, so upgrade as usual. The only play note is that the substantial increase to Starsurge procs from 4T16 means you will likely transition to always using procs immediately, if you were not already.


Most trinkets can be evaluated based on their stats just like any other item, if you use the uptime on their proc/use to compute an average stat value. WrathCalcs can also help you evaluate trinkets.

In T16, the best trinket at each tier on a single target is [Purified Bindings of Immerseus], followed by [Kardris' Toxic Totem]. Anytime you are DPSing 3 or more clumped targets a large portion of the time, [Frenzied Crystal of Rage] is extremely good and should be used. Do not use [Prismatic Prison of Pride].

Unerring Vision

This trinket is highly unusual, requiring you to react immediately to its 4-second proc in order to get the proper value out of it. The moment it procs, drop whatever you were doing and recast both your DoTs on the current target (regardless of whether you're clipping or not). If you're lucky enough to have a timer such as Celestial Alignment available, make sure to press it before the DoTs for a huge DPS windfall. Once the DoTs are up, use as many of the ensuing Shooting Stars procs as possible during the 20 seconds or so that they last (and fill with normal nukes in between).

Because the procs are so rare (even at 50% total haste, expect one every 2 minutes) and require you to react within a GCD or two to get the benefit, you must have a UI alert using WeakAuras or a similar mod. The buff is Perfect Aim - Spell - World of Warcraft. Make sure you're not going to miss it anytime it fires.

Activated trinkets

Typically the best time to activate is with your DoT's. Not only does this ensure you get a set of buffed DoT's, but you often refresh DoT's at the beginning of Eclipse. Even better, if it's a 20 second buff (like many are), your 14-16 second DoT's should get a second set of refreshes during the trinket activation. So, macroing trinkets to a DoT is not a bad plan if you don't want to deal with them manually all the time.

Here's a macro you can stick into any spell (such as Moonfire) to activate a trinket without spamming error messages or sounds:


/script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE");
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/use 14
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:RegisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE");
/use Moonfire

(14 is the bottom trinket slot, 13 is the top. Make sure to put these lines before the spell cast in your macro.)



Use [Flask of the Warm Sun] and [Mogu Fish Stew] or similar Int buffs if you don't have access to those.
The best DPS potion is [Potion of the Jade Serpent]. You want to use it during Bloodlust. When you're trying to completely maximize your DPS, remember you can click a potion just before combat starts (ask your tank to count down), and then be able to use another potion later in the fight.


Excluding profession bonuses.


Non-gathering professions are all very similar in value, giving a bonus with a benefit of roughly 320 Int. If you're picking fresh professions right now, it looks like Blacksmithing slightly edges out the others, and Jewelcrafting is slightly weaker. However, the differences are too small to be worth switching around existing professions.

Blacksmithing: An extra socket each in your wrists and gloves, each with a [Brilliant Primordial Ruby], gives 320 Intellect. However since another gem (such as [Smooth Sun's Radiance]) is even better, Blacksmithing can give somewhat more benefit than other professions.

Engineering: Synapse Springs give 1920 Int, for 10 seconds out of every 60, for 320 Int on average (varies slightly in practice). Has potential to slightly outdo other professions since you can time the use to be most efficient.
A macro similar to the one given above for trinkets can be used for glove tinkers--the glove slot is number 10.

Leatherworking: 500 Int to bracers in place of the usual 180 Int gives you 320 Intellect.
Alchemy: Mixology (with your [Flask of the Warm Sun]) will give you 320 Intellect.
Enchanting: 160 Int to each ring gives 320 Intellect.
Inscription: 520 Int/100 crit to shoulders in place of the usual is a gain of 320 Intellect.
Tailoring: Lightweave Embroidery gives 2000 Int for 15 seconds, 20% proc on damage, 60 second cooldown. The average benefit with perfect procs is around 500 Int, minus the 180 Int you usually have on your cloak, for an increase of around 320 Int. This is slightly reduced due to delay on the proc, but increased since you get a proc at the very beginning of the fight, so the end result is similar to other professions, but with a little variance.

Jewelcrafting: 2 [Brilliant Serpent's Eye] in place of 2 [Brilliant Primordial Ruby] gives 320 Intellect. However, since [Brilliant Primordial Ruby] may not be your best gem (see above), the gain is slightly less. In addition, Jewelcrafting may grow weaker when epic gems are introduced.

Gathering professions are weaker:
Herbalism now gives a haste cooldown via Lifeblood. At 2880 haste for 20s every 2 minutes, it averages out to 480 haste.
Skinning gives 480 crit rating.
Mining provides 480 stamina, but no DPS gain.

Gear Selection

General Principles

I'm not going to set out full BIS lists here, for a few different reasons. It's best for you to read this guide until you understand the class well enough to choose gear based on the things I've said above. But here's some overall advice to help provide some guidance.

Caster epics have Intellect, Stamina, spellpower in the case of weapons, and 2 out of the 4 secondary stats: crit rating, hit/Spirit, haste rating, mastery rating. Keep in mind a few rules of thumb, which are enough to get a quick estimate of the value of any piece:

  • Higher-ilvl gear is stronger. Intellect usually increases very regularly with ilvl, so we have a predictable gain.
  • More sockets are better, since the items have more stat points in total.
  • As far as secondary stats, gear so as to reach the hit cap and maximize crit and haste, without going past the GCD haste cap. Since meeting the hit cap is not difficult in current gear (if anything, having too much hit is the problem), crit/haste items are the most desirable, followed by any other crit items.

Since the 5% Intellect from Leather Specialization is a strong bonus, you should ignore cloth gear.

To compare items more precisely and check for upgrades, use WrathCalcs to test different setups. You can also use WrathCalcs to compute DPS weights for all your stats for guidance. Generally though, the above rules are sufficient to figure out which of two items is better. See below for more on WrathCalcs.

Casting Mechanics

The first rule of DPS is to always be casting (or waiting out a GCD after an instant). Anytime a spell ends, you should already have queued your next one (see below). Don't delay a cast to make a decision or react to proc--train yourself to start another spell regardless of what's going on, and change the subsequent spellcast if necessary after you've had another second to think.

As a preliminary note, this type of macro might be useful for automatically assisting with your nukes when you have a raid member targeted:


/use [@target, harm, nodead][@targettarget, harm, nodead][] Starfire


Spell Queueing

First, there is an in-game option to decide whether keypresses activate on press or on release. Choose what you like and keep it in mind for learning your timing.

When you send a spell command to the server, if your character is unable to cast immediately (typically because it's still casting or GCD-locked from your last spell), the server will see if you become ready to cast within a certain short window. If you do, it will begin the cast immediately. You can set the length of this window with an interface option called "Custom Latency Tolerance." You want to set this value to a high enough amount that you can always press the next spell key comfortably before the current spell finishes, and never have a gap between casts. But you don't want to set it too high, because you can't change your mind after you queue a spell, so your reaction time is effectively slower if you "lock in" each spell a long time before it begins casting. Experiment and find something you're comfortable with.

Spell Rotations

The Short Version

  • Start by applying Sunfire and Moonfire, and casting Starsurge and Starfall. Whenever either DoT falls off the target, or Starsurge or Starfall comes off cooldown, recast it.
  • Cast Starfire until until a Solar (Wrath) Eclipse procs, then switch to Wrath. Cast Wrath until a Lunar (Starfire) Eclipse procs, then switch back to Starfire.
  • Repeat this Eclipse cycle, always keeping your two DoT's on the target and using Starsurge, and Starfall on cooldown.
  • Use Celestial Alignment whenever an Eclipse as just ended and it's off cooldown. Use DPS talents whenever they're available.

For more detail, continue to the following sections.

The Eclipse Rotation

You will generally operate in a four-step cycle.

  1. Pre-Lunar. Cast Wrath until the Eclipse buff appears (have some mod that will make it very obvious when you gain the buff).
  2. Lunar Eclipse. When you see the buff, finish casting your current Wrath and then cast Starfire for the duration of Eclipse.
  3. Pre-Solar. When Eclipse fades, continue casting Starfire until the Eclipse buff appears.
  4. Solar Eclipse. Cast Wrath for the duration. Continue casting when it ends to loop back around into step 1.

Basically, you cast Wrath until Lunar procs and cast Starfire until Solar procs. But once DoTs and other instants are involved, thinking in terms of the four-phase cycle helps you plan your casts well.

Note that unlike in the past, Starfire is somewhat stronger than Wrath, meaning you do more DPS in the Lunar half of the cycle.

Subtleties of Transitions

Unlike in Cataclysm, if you cast an instant immediately after the nuke that triggers Eclipse, the instant will be affected by Eclipse.

Solar: You want to watch for when your Solar energy is at 60 or higher, so that you know your current Starfire cast is your last one, and queue a Sunfire or other Solar spell.
Lunar: Wrath now, like Starfire, gives its energy on cast completion. If your Lunar energy as you start a Wrath is 70 or higher, queue Starfall for your next spell (even if it looks like it's on cooldown), followed by Moonfire or other Lunar spell.
Do your best to avoid casting extra spells beyond what's necessary to proc Eclipse.

If you use the mod Balance Power Tracker (below) things look slightly different. That mod can display a modified energy bar, which projects your energy value from currently casting spells, so all you have to do is check for when it reads 100. Remember that if you move or interrupt a cast though (or if your spell misses), your energy will appear to go back down.

Managing Eclipse

We now have the ability Astral Communion to set our energy to whatever value we like (multiples of 25) in advance of an encounter. As you attempt a particular fight more and more, you can sometimes plan out your Eclipses for certain AoE/movement phases. I'm not going to give a boss-by-boss guide here, but you should pay attention to the order of events in each fight and refine your routine. An important point is that you always delay an Eclipse by spamming Moonfire with Lunar Shower or casting the off-Eclipse nuke, so sometimes you can use that to control when you enter or leave Eclipse at various points in an encounter. At some encounters, planning out your Eclipses at specific points in the fight will be a major part of doing good DPS. Most commonly, when a fight has AoE phase, you will want to do whatever is necessary to make sure you're in Solar when that phase begins, by delaying Eclipses as necessary.

When the Eclipse arrow is neutral (after zoning in, logging in, or rezzing) and can go either way from 0, Astral Communion will take you towards Lunar.

There are two good options for a single-target opening burst:

  1. Start at 75 energy towards Lunar. Starfall before the pull, as you pre-pot, then Wrath once to start into Lunar. Use CA as that Lunar ends.
  2. Start in Solar. As before, Starfall, pre-pot, and start casting a Wrath as the boss is being pulled. CA immediately and then progress towards Lunar.

#1 is generally favored at low haste, #2 at high haste. In particular, use #2 when at the haste cap and getting Bloodlust at the start of the fight. The reason for this is that the 15-second CA Eclipse is much longer than a natural Eclipse when you're under that many haste effects, and you want to use it right away, under the effect of as many procs as possible.



At very high levels of crit/haste, it generally becomes better to ignore the below rules and instead use any Starsurge proc as soon as possible, in order to minimize the chance of a second proc overwriting your existing one.

In weaker gear, there is one major exception: do not cast Starsurge twice within the same Solar Eclipse. This will cause you to be at 0 energy (instead of 5 energy) after 6 total spells, ending Solar one cast early. It's fine (in fact, it's good) to cast a second Starsurge at 5 energy, as the final spell of Solar, if you have it available.

A more minor exception is that if you are close to a new Eclipse, saving Starsurge for Eclipse can be slightly better, as long as this does not increase the number of casts to reach Eclipse (i.e. if at 60 energy towards Lunar, cast the SS, to get into Lunar right away). If you're unsure, using Starsurge whenever it's up (subject to the above exception) is fine.

DoT Refreshing

DoT's are similarly strong as they were in Cataclysm. You want to do your best to maintain very high uptime on both of them (Sunfire has replaced Insect Swarm, but no change conceptually). Typically, the only time you will hold up recasting of a DoT is if it falls off and the corresponding Eclipse is coming up very soon and/or you don't have Nature's Grace--you'll wait one or two casts and refresh at the beginning of Eclipse. If both DoT's are coming up at around the same time when you start Eclipse, casting the non-Eclipse DoT first gives a very minor improvement due to Lunar Shower.

In practice, the duration of a DoT (around 14 or 16 seconds) is similar to the time it takes to get from one Eclipse to the next, so it's easy to work in a pattern where you recast both DoTs at the beginning of each Eclipse. If you are at all interrupted during Eclipse and your Eclipse DoT is close to falling off, you can refresh it (even clipping slightly) just before leaving Eclipse.

Remember that Cataclysm changed the way DoT refreshing works--when you refresh a currently ticking DoT, you no longer waste a partial tick. Significantly, if you refresh a DoT when it has only one tick remaining, there is no loss at all.

DoT ticks use your spellpower, haste, crit, and +% damage (e.g. Eclipse) values from the moment the DoT was cast--they do not update in real time until the next time you cast the DoT. Because the entire DoT is affected by your stats at the moment of cast, there can be detailed decisionmaking in when to apply them--see "Advanced Points" below for more.


  • Starfall: Cast this as your first spell of Lunar Eclipse. Given the new cooldown refresh mechanism, there's very little reason to do anything else, unless there's an important set of multiple targets to hit with it later in the same cycle.
  • Celestial Alignment: Use this immediately after ending an Eclipse. It does not consume a GCD, so cast another spell immediately as it starts (macroing a Moonfire into CA seems reasonable). Typically you want to get Starfall and Moonfire going as soon as you start. You usually want to refresh Moonfire on every target just before CA falls off, especially if you also have Incarnation up.
  • Incarnation: You want to use this whenever you can have it affect an Eclipse and a Celestial Alignment immediately after. This means you should use Incarnation at the beginning of the Eclipse before you're planning to use CA. Since they're on the same cooldown, you should be able to do this throughout the fight.
  • Nature's Vigil: use this together with Incarnation and/or Celestial Alignment for best DPS. Between Incarnations, use it exactly on cooldown even if it doesn't line up well with Eclipse, so that it's ready for your next Incarnation or CA.
  • Force of Nature: keep using these often enough to never let them pool to 3 charges. The best time to drop them is when Tempus Repit (the meta gem proc) is active, so they'll have that buff for most of their life. If you know that a large buff like Bloodlust is coming, or a DPS burst requirement, you can save them for up to minute to get 3 charges.
  • Dream of Cenarius: Not technically a cooldown, but fits here. Sometime during each cycle (ideally, during Eclipse after casting your DoTs), cast one HT on any target. Remember to use NS once a minute (you can use an NS macro to do this automatically).

Utility Spells

These have a small portion of the guide, but don't be deceived--good use of them tends to be the hallmark of top players. But no advice I can give here is a substitute for awareness and familiarity with your class.

  • Nature's Swiftness: all Balance Druids have this now. Unless using DoC, remember to use it to speed up your Rebirth or throw an emergency heal when needed.
  • Typhoon, Mighty Bash, Disorienting Roar: remember that these can interrupt spellcasting of PvE targets.
  • Faerie Fire: We no longer need to use this unless the raid is missing an Armor debuff (Sunder Armor or Expose Armor). Note that while the Faerie Fire debuff itself lasts 5 minutes, the armor reduction must be refreshed every 30 seconds. Faerie Fire can be Glyphed to provide a silence, but this is often impractical due to the need to shift to Bear Form one GCD in advance of using it.
  • Innervate: This is not too powerful anymore, but try to give it to healer on cooldown unless DPS is so tight that you don't want to spare the GCD.
  • Rebirth: The most important issue is to avoid wasting it, especially now that the raid can only use a limited number per attempt (3 in 25-man, 1 in 10-man). People love to accept the resurrection as soon as it appears and die to something immediately. It can be good to warn them if it's a bad time to accept, and Glyph of Rebirth provides further insurance.
    Here's a macro that casts Revive instead of Rebirth if you're out of combat, and also alerts your raid if Rebirth is used:
    /use [nocombat] Revive
    /stopmacro [nocombat]
    /use Rebirth
    /ra Rebirth on %t
  • Tranquility: This spell does quite a large amount of healing due to our high spellpower (only slightly less than that of a Resto Druid). Don't forget to use it at some point during the fight when the raid has taken a lot of damage. If you have Heart of the Wild and are not using it for anything else, remember to pop it before starting Tranquility.
  • Dash, Might of Ursoc, Stampeding Roar: Now that these can be used without having to shift form or wait for resources, you should have them keybound and ready to use at any time. Might of Ursoc is least useful as it fades if you shift out of Bear, but it can be useful to pop it briefly if you're worried there's a good chance that a big attack might kill you.


Nothing significant will change during the rotation, except that DoTs become very good. Make sure to DoT any possible target as soon as Bloodlust starts, probably even clipping any existing DoTs at that point (use any timers here if possible, such as Berserking and your Potion, and especially Celestial Alignment). If you have a Nature's Grace near the beginning of Bloodlust, even better to spam DoTs with.


The basic solution to any movement situation is to try to get the most out of DoTs and Lunar Shower, and other instants. Cast Moonfire/Sunfire the instant movement begins (or even just before) to start stacking the buff, then spam it on the target while running. Use Shooting Stars when it procs. Planting Wild Mushrooms at the enemy's feet while moving take some practice but is worthwhile if there are multiple targets; remember that you can wait until your next Solar Eclipse to detonate them. Finally, if at all possible, you want to be in an Eclipse for movement, although you might often have little control over this.

For brief periods of movement, if you're not in Eclipse and/or NG, you may not want to overwrite a strong existing DoT with a weak DoT. In that case, try to find something else to do with the GCD (such as planting a WM).

It's important to manage our DoTs well during high-movement situations. You want to plan your casting so that you cast DoTs (or other instants) while moving, and nukes while standing still. This requires you to be highly aware of both your spell rotation and your surroundings, so you can anticipate movement. It's always worth delaying a DoT by a few seconds to cast it while moving, so you can cast another nuke while still. This also holds true for other instants.

Multiple Targets and AoE

In multi-target (3 or more) situations, use a mix of Wild Mushroom, Hurricane, and DoTs.


  • It is better to be in Solar, since WM is buffed and Hurricane is better than Astral Storm. However, being in Lunar is still better than being outside of Eclipse. Note that even if you use Celestial Alignment in Lunar or post-Lunar, you will have Astral Storm and not Hurricane.
  • Wild Mushroom is slightly lower DPET than Hurricane, so you no longer have to drop a set of 3 WM's on cooldown against clumped targets. However, since they can be placed in advance, good planning still lets you use them for extra burst along with Hurricane.
  • With 3 or fewer targets, put up both DoTs on anything that's going to live for the full duration. With more targets or for AoE lasting for a shorter time, either put up the Eclipsed DoT only or just use Hurricane.

On encounters with a major AoE component, a big part of your planning should revolve around being in Solar Eclipse at the right time.


Advanced Techniques

The Balance spec has a number of interacting buffs and procs, making it currently one of the complex classes in the game to play well. There's no concise list of rules for what to cast and when (which is part of why this guide is so long); you need to have the solid understanding of how the different abilities works and use your judgment in a variety of situations. When you feel you've mastered the basic techniques described so far, here are more subtle points you can try to start working into your play:


  • Unlearn your Cataclysm habit of casting one Eclipsed spell before a DoT. You now want to queue your first DoT or Starfall immediately following the final post-Eclipse spell.
  • Similar, you can no longer sneak in a DoT or instant Starsurge after the final Eclipsed spell. If you want to clip a DoT at the end of Eclipse, it must be done before the last Eclipsed nuke.
  • When casting two DoTs at the beginning of Eclipse: cast the unecplised DoT, then the Eclipsed DoT (unless you expect to clip the Eclipsed DoT for any reason), then Starsurge if it's up. In Lunar, cast Starfall before all other spells since its DPS drops when Eclipse ends.
  • [Mostly deprecated at high haste due to very frequent Starsurge procs]: When Solar Eclipse starts, use the first Starsurge you have available. If a second SS procs during the Eclipse, save it for when you have 5 energy remaining (if you don't use BPT, queue it when the energy bar reads 20 and you're casting a Wrath). Depending on whether you got the proc, you'll be at either 10 or 15 energy in post-Solar. Wrath 3 times to reach Lunar and save any SS procs for the beginning of Lunar (as noted above, you can start to ignore this when at haste cap and high levels of crit).
  • In all cases, in Lunar Eclipse, simply cast Starsurge when it comes up.
  • There are a wide variety of things that affect the damage done by a DoT at the time you cast. A non-exhaustive list: Nature's Grace, Eclipse, Incarnation, Nature's Vigil, trinket procs, Lightweave/Synapse/Power Torrent, Bloodlust, Potion, Berserking. Depending on you closely you monitor your buffs (there's no way you can watch all these things effectively without a mod organizing your buff information), you can squeeze out extra DPS by watching what's going on as you refresh DoT's, and adjusting slightly earlier or later as necessary.
  • This also means that if you're moving, sometimes you don't want to use the usual Lunar Shower spam because it will overwrite a strong DoT with a weak one (for example if Eclipse just faded). This is the sort of situation where you might plant Wild Mushrooms to fill time for 3 GCD's, and detonate them at any later time, such as during your next Solar Eclipse.
  • From a reset Eclipse position, Starsurge and Celestial Alignment will now give Lunar energy. Keep this in mind when setting up for a pull, depending on which Eclipse you want to start with (which Eclipse this is depends on your plan for the fight). A solid starting routine is important, because you have your Int Potion, first set of trinket procs, and often Bloodlust, and want to maximize their effect. Pay particular attention to DoT refreshing.
  • At the beginning of a fight, start at 75 energy towards Lunar, and open with Starfall, then Wrath to start Lunar. Recast Starfall during Lunar as soon as it ends, and then again during Celestial Alignment. This results in an opening sequence that looks like:
    Starfall, Wrath, Incarnation, Sunfire, Moonfire, Starsurge, Starfire, Starfall, Starfire x3, Celestial Alignment, Moonfire, Starfire/Starsurge, Starfall, and then proceed as usual.
  • If you're at haste cap, have the legendary meta, and are opening the fight with Bloodlust, the extreme haste value can make it slightly better to instead start a fight with immediate Celestial Alignment (in order to align the CA with starting trinket/meta procs). Start in Solar Eclipse, cast Starfall and 1 Wrath during the pull, and immediately hit CA, DoTs, and Starsurge. Proceed normally from there (remembering, as before, to start the second and third Starfalls when the previous Starfall ends).
  • When starting Lunar, if you note that your next Lunar is going to be the one that you Incarnation, don't use Starfall at all, and instead use it just before the next Lunar (similar to the beginning of the fight).



There is only one addon I use that is specific to Balance spec:

Balance Power Tracker: An alternative energy bar. Among various display features, this bar has the option to add the expected energy from currently casting/spells to your energy bar, to help you see when you need to swap spells for the next Eclipse. Try this feature out to see if you like it, but remember that if you've been practicing with the default energy bar, the timing change will take a bit of getting used to.



Download here:


Moonkin theorycraft spreadsheet. Will give you the exact value of stats/talents/glyphs in your current setup, and lets you experiment with different rotations. Originally made by Adoriele here. I've since taken it over and used it as the platform for my own theorycrafting, reflected in the version posted here.

For those of you who used WrathCalcs in Cataclysm, things are the same. There's a front page where you can select gear, gems, enchants, and reforges from drop-down menus. Stats are automatically totaled and passed to the second page, where you'll find all the other features: talent and buff selection, and detailed outputs.

For everyone else, here's a basic description to get you started:

1) Input your gear, gems, enchants, and reforges on the front page. The basic rule is that any light-blue box is a dropdown menu where you can choose something. The sheet will automatically black out any enchant/gem slots that don't exist, and will highlight any inactive socket bonuses or meta gems in red. To un-reforge (or un-gem or un-enchant) and item, just the delete the current reforge/gem/enchant selection.
2) On the second page, input your talents, glyphs and buffs. Again, light blue boxes are menus where you can enter your setup. Don't modify the pink boxes, which are the stats inherited from the front page--these are shown so you can see the stat weights (see below). You can also set some parameters about how you use your spells in the purple boxes.

3) Basic results are in green boxes. You can read your overall DPS in the "main results" box (also copied to the front page so you can easily see how it changes when you change gear). Other green boxes show your hit/haste breakpoints, the DPET of each of your spells, and the damage breakdown of all your spells.
4) Advanced results are in the blue boxes. These require the use of data tables, which you have to recompute manually by pressing F9. These include:
a) next to each stat, buff, glyph, and talent, the amount of DPS and MP5 derived from that particular thing. For stats, it shows the benefit of having 1 more of that stat. For talents and other bonuses, it shows the value you currently gain from that bonus (i.e. the amount you would lose by dropping it).
B) next to the spell table, the amount by an additional stat point improves each individual spell.

There is now one version of the sheet for both Excel and OpenOffice. OO users select "OpenOffice" from the dropdown on the first page, and everything should work (except for the data tables/advanced outputs, which are not supported by OO).

There's also a profile save/load feature now (only works in Windows Excel) so you can swap between different gear sets more easily.

Click here to view the guide
  • Akwuh, Peroxx, namelesss and 1 other like this

#2271808 No flying in 6.0

Posted by Immortally on 31 December 2013 - 03:45 PM

Being a player from the long lost world of vanilla I remember walking everywhere and the excitement getting a ground mount came with. Not to mention, even with all my flying abilities, I still enjoy running around on my skeletal warhorse or raptor. Thus, people complaining about not flying for a few levels seems a bit ridiculous to me. Also, I agree with a previous poster that flying mounts have created a disconnect between players and the environment. 

  • Soulece, uglybluecat and Astralglide like this

#2271441 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on 18 December 2013 - 09:07 PM

All, we're sorting through an issue with Brian's forum account here. Hang tight, he'll be in shortly to answer questions.

  • Thavi Sparrow, Soulece and Metrica like this

#2277257 DBM Update 6.0.8 Released

Posted by MysticalOS on 09 December 2014 - 10:48 PM

New Features

  • Several Language updates.
  • Added support for external sound packs. Mod support not yet complete since API is not yet finalized.


  • Added GTFO type warning to Crystal Barrage on Tectus.
  • Added berserk timers for Butcher (heroic) and tectus (normal/heroic)
  • Vastly improved Branded/Arcane Wrath warnings: The only warn at relevant stack counts on you. Yells now have stack counts. Range frame now auto shows and hides with automatically adjusting range. Range frame dynamically filters players based on debuff status (if you have debuff, shows everyone, if you do not, shows only those that do). Auto icon marking should be a bit better now.
  • Improved Mark of Chaos warnings for raid as well. In chance tank doesn't get out far enough, the auto range frame will prioritize mark of chaos over branded and alert you with important special warning you are too close to tank if tank is rooted (fortification phase) while showing the 35 yard radar and tanks dot (while still showing branded dots)
  • Fixate now has a yell on Margok
  • Made mark of chaos on Margok, and arcane debuff on Koragh use more accurate threat checks instead of boss target during cast, to ensure it warns correct tank, as sometimes boss is looking at wrong target (especially Koragh who sometimes has nil target during arcane tank debuff cast). Small caveat is if Koragh has a nil target, it warns you to taunt because debuff is on "unknown". Small bleh, but it will warn correct tank to taunt.
  • Added force nova count in timers and warnings on Margok. Added countdown sounds.
  • Probably other stuff I do not remember


  • Added several trash mod warnings, mainly focused on challenge mode difficulty and disabled on normal. Heroic is still being decided, currently enabled on heroic but could be spammy if more than one group is pulled at a time.
  • Updated several mods across the board with better warnings/timers/rangecheckers. Instances that received most work are. Grim Rail, Everbloom, Auchindoun, UBRS, and Slag Mines. The other 3 still need more work for heroics & challenge modes.

Bug Fixes

  • Fixed bug that caused world boss mods not to load properly.
  • Worked around blizzard bug (draenor difficulty index returning 1 instead of 0) that causes world bosses to report as 5 man normal bosses.
  • DBM-Core will no longer hide objectives frame if user is tracking any achievements. Hiding that frame by default was to get the intrusive scenario type objectives out of way for your timers during boss fights, not to make tracking boss related achievements impossible.
  • Fixes bug that caused dbm to still show as "enabled" in GUI, when it's in fact been disabled by a force disable.
  • Fixed rare version check lua error.


  • Fixes incorrect timers on Twin Ogron do to Dec 3rd hotfix changes to whirlwind behavior.
  • Fixes incorrect impale timer do to live changes from beta on Bladefist.
  • Fixes bug where the bounding cleave timer wasn't updating properly when Butcher entered Frenzy
  • Fixes range frame issues on Margok where tank would not see any dots when affected by Mark of Chaos debuff.
  • Fixes invalid special warning for Crystal Barrage giving wrong spell name on Tectus
  • Hopefully Fixed auto marking on Tectus Motes (untested).
  • Fixed Boss health reporting on Margok and Tectus status whispers.
  • Fixed lua error with kick to face on Margok.
  • Fixed minor timer bugs where count for next bar would be 0 instead of 1, on boss engage.
  • Other fixes I probably don't remember.


  • Fixed bugs in MANY 5 man dungeons. Far too many to list.


  • Created a "sounds" GUI category in boss mod options to split sound options from misc options to make them more apparent and easy to find.
  • Even more debug added to diagnose user issues as needed (with options to control it of course and naturally disabled by default).
  • Changed INSTANCE_ENCOUNTER_ENGAGE_UNIT to no longer require UnitExists(). Resolves issues with bosses like Xeritac which fire IEEU but UnitExists() returns false even though boss1 DOES exist.

For more DBM news, visit:

For more information on Molten Core Anniversary event, visit:

For information on known issues, visit:

  • au2586yeung and kimice like this

#2275685 [Prot 6.0] - Kiss with a Fist

Posted by Wrathblood on 25 September 2014 - 09:11 PM

"You hit me once, I hit you back..."

I'm really hoping Holy Shield ends up as our go-to talent choice at level 100.


Protection Paladin 6.0 Overview

First will be Major Changes, then a quick-and-dirty how-to, and then we'll get to the real guide itself.


Major Changes

Changes from MoP to WoD
6.0 and the start of WoD brings some fairly substantial changes, but they're really split.  

- On the one hand, how we play is barely impacted at all, and we can get at least moderate use out of almost any piece of plate gear.  

- On the other hand, optimizing your gearing and choosing the stats we want to stack remains a work in progress  

For the time being, stick with your MoP rotation and take the highest ilevel pieces available with STR.

Crucial changes from MoP to WoD

- STAT SQUISH - No, you haven't been nerfed.  Everyone and everything now has less health, less stats, and hits less hard.  Expect to see smaller numbers on your screen.  Everything has been balanced around this.

- Vengeance renamed to Resolve, and it now only effects defensive abilities (no more punching up your dps by taking more damage)

- Less expectation of being at full health - The plan is for tank health to be relatively high relative to boss hits and healer output, making it hard to keep us topped off or to kill us in less than 4-5 gcds.  We'll see how well this holds up

- *Lots* of changes to stats, see below

- Profession perks have mostly been gutted, with Engineering as the only semi-exception

- No more reforging, and gemming and item enchanting have been streamlined

- Most abilities and rotation remain the same.  Ability pruning didn't affect us very much, except for:

- No more Wings.  Avenging Wrath is gone for Prot


Changes to Stats

- No more Hit or Exp on gear, you are assumed to be Hit and Exp Capped 

- No more Avoidance on gear either, though you do get Avoidance from stacking STR and Crit

- New tanking applications from non-tanking stats (basically, Crit now gives Parry)

- Entirely new stats:

   - Multistrike - gives a chance of each attack landing additional, softer, "echo" hits, as well as a chance of incoming heals healing for more

   - Versatility - flat increase to damage done, healing done, absorbs done, and a smaller reduction to damage taken

   - Bonus Armor - Is different from regular "armor" that you find on most gear.  This shows up occasionally as a secondary stat on certain pieces of armor.  It works basically the same as normal armor, but it also provides Attack Power. 

- Mastery and Haste are still pretty much the same

- You will occasionally get other stats randomly on gear, things like +run speed, Cleave (free AoE damage), or Gem slots (gear will have far fewer gem slots than now), but it will apparently be uncommon enough that you shouldn't count on it


Preliminary guess is that stat attractiveness goes something like:

Bonus Armor > Mastery > Multistrike >= Versatility >= Crit > Haste

But they do different things and its hard to judge.  How much more extra healing taken do you need to counter out a flat reduction in damage taken?  We'll get into a little more detail on this later, but an overall solution is going to require more raid data than we currently have access to.

Also, some of those stats affect tank damage done more than others. How much will tank damage done matter? We'll have to wait and see.  This feels really wishy-washy, but MoP was kinda the same way at this point.  We didn't figure out how good Haste really was until well after HoF was out.



How to Play

I'll paraphrase Celyndrashad to start: The objective isn't to tell you how to build your character and play (though some of that will sneak in). Only you can do that the best way for your situation. But to do that properly you need to know how things work. I'm here to tell you how everything works.

That having been said, I'm going to break from recent practice and give a TL;DR on how to play a Prot Pally in 6.0. I'm going to assume some basic knowledge of MoP mechanics and I'm not going to go into any details. All the detail you could want is down below this part in the bulk of the post.

Getting your Character Ready

Stats, Gear, etc

Gear is going to be *far* easier to loot and immediately start using.  With the various stat changes, we have almost no "breakpoint" stats anymore meaning the classic "Oh, no, I'm 73 points over-capped on Hit!  I need to Reforge and Re-Gem 7 pieces of gear to fix it!" is a thing of the past.  


Also, Reforging is gone and Enchanting and Gemming are much less of a deal.  The *only* gear that can be enchanted going forward is: Weapons, Cloaks, Rings, and Necks. That's it.  Also, most gear does not innately have gem sockets though it is moderately likely to get lucky and spawn with one.  So if a piece of gear drops that's an ilevel upgrade for you, its entirely possible you will be able to immediately use it with no additional adjusting required.  As time goes on and we get more gear with "tertiary" stats this may change, but for now you will be able to "grab and go" much of the time.


1 - ilevel - highest ilevel piece of gear with STR wins
2 - Prioritize anything with Bonus Armor
3 - Prioritize anything with tertiary stats (+run speed, lifesteal, gem sockets, etc)
4 - Preliminary stat prioritization:


Bonus Armor > Mastery > Multistrike >= Versatility >= Crit > Haste


Tier Sets

T17 - 2 piece - When you cast Avenger Shield, your chance to block is increased by 12% for 5 seconds

T17 - 4 piece - When you block an attack, you have a chance of increasing your block value by 20% for 5 seconds (roughly 2 ppm)

Our current tier bonuses aren't overly powerful on their own, but they work together and with Holy Shield very well, and scale strongly with Mastery.  IMO, they're currently making Holy Shield and Mastery look somewhat stronger than they would in a vacuum.  


Talents, Glyphs and Professions

Most talents on each tier are pretty well balanced, use the one that seems best for each fight's mechanics. Its ok to swap them around a lot so be sure to keep a ton of the books on hand at any time.

A bit of description on some:

- Level 45 talent - Sacred Shield is currently looking a little stronger than EF (Bastion only enhances the initial heal, not the HoT)

- Level 75 talent - Since we no longer have Avenging Wrath, Sanctified Wrath now makes Holy Wrath hit for +100% damage and give 1 HoPo.  This makes HW hit *very* hard.  In a nutshell, Sanctified Wrath is our top DPS choice this tier though it generates the least HoPo, Divine Purpose produces the most HoPo (and is best for general survivability) but the least dps, and Holy Avenger is in the middle on both counts while being the most controllable. Surprisingly, these abilities are very evenly balanced. In a Patchwerk fight, as long as you play well, the top-to-bottom gap for both DPS and survivability should be around 5%. HA is good if you need another cooldown, but be aware it does not play especially well with Seraphim.

- Level 90 talents - They're all pretty balanced. Take the one that seems the best for the fight (periodic single target vs periodic AoE vs rotational AoE) and that you can use the best.

- Level 100 talents - Ok, this is the decision that matters. All three choices are powerful and steer your play in different directions.

Holy Shield is the simplest. +15% to Block chance, allows you to block magic attacks, and does damage to opponents when you block their attacks. It is very strong in fights with lots of magic damage, or in AoE situations. Single target dps is weak.

Seraphim is the middle choice. It gives you a powerful but expensive cooldown powered by HoPo. Your game play becomes 30 second cycles of storing up HoPo as quickly as possible (popping short cooldowns for protection) until you get to 5 HoPo, then popping Serphim (+1000 to all secondary stats) and going nuts until it wears off. Rinse and repeat every 30 seconds. DPS and survivability are both solid, though it doesn't match up well with HA since you want steady HoPo production rather than bursts.

Emp Seals is the most versatile option but also requires the most maintenance. Every time you activate a seal, you get a 20 second buff depending on the seal. If you want more survivability you can simply refresh SoI every 20 seconds, for maximum dps you can alternate SoT and SoR (hitting a new seal every 10 seconds), and for middle of the road performance you can alternate all 3 seals or 1 dps seal and SoI. The max dps rotation provides superb dps at a cost of terrible survivability, and you can shift on the fly to just refreshing SoI for survival comparable to Holy Shield albeit at the cost of bad dps.

For the time-being I recommend going with:

- Tank swap fight or DPS race > Seraphim

- AoE/Add fight > Holy Shield

- Emp Seals versatility is nice, but its annoying to maintain, and its only actual optimal when you need absolute max dps and don't care about survivability. In that situation it would be a valid choice.



Overall Glyphs are very similar to MoP, with lackluster options.

- I recommend Divine Protection, Alabaster Shield, and Final Wrath

- If we aren't using Eternal Flame, Glyph of WoG is much less useful

- Blinding Light is now a talent and its glyph went away

- New Glyph of the Consecrator makes your Consecration area move with you is probably the most interesting

- New Glyph of Judgment (+10 yards to Judgment range) might be useful for picking up stray mobs

- New Glyph of Ardent Defender removes the -20% damage reduction, but if you cast it and it expires without needing to save you, its cd is reset to 1 minute.  If you're in serious danger of dying that often, you're either doing something wrong or Blizzard has *BADLY* missed its stated target on Tank spike damage.

- If we ever get access to Glyph of Merciful Wrath (currently Holy-only, halves the damage and CD of Holy Wrath), the talent Sanctified Wrath would look a lot more attractive


- Perks have mostly gone away.  There might be some value in taking Engineering for the crafted head piece (though they're now BoE), but its hard to tell how this will play out.  Right now there isn't much raiding value in maxing or even having professions as long as you have access to someone who does.

Rotation and Play
Pleasantly, this entire section remains the same.  The abilities have seen some modest shifts, but they remain roughly as good relative to each other as they were before, so all the priorities are exactly the same.


You want to hammer your Holy Power producing abilities (CS, J and rarely AS) to create as much HoPo as possible so you can then use it (via ShoR and rarely WoG) to keep you alive. The best rotation for this is:

CS - J - X - CS - X - J - CS - X - X (repeat)

Where each X is the best "filler" ability not on cooldown. The order goes:

Avenger Shield > Your level 90 talent > Holy Wrath > Consecration

Sometimes you'll get a proc that clears the cooldown on Avenger Shield, which is nice but still wait until CS and J are on cooldown before using it. Same rotation for AoE, just use HotR instead of CS and move Consecration ahead of Holy Wrath.


Note that Consecration moves ahead of HW when:  # of targets times # of ticks on each target => 10.  So, if you have 2 targets and each is going to get 5 ticks (ticks happen about 1/second, though Haste will shorten that slightly), then Consecration will be better than HW.  3 targets getting 3 ticks each only equals 9, so HW would be better.  You get the idea.

Using Holy Power (HoPo)
Eternal Flame used to be better than Sacred Shield, so this used to be all about ensuring 100% EF HoT uptime. But now that SS appears to be better, just use all your HoPo on ShoR.  The duration on the ShoR buff stacks, so its totally fine to use it a few times in a row if you have Holy Avenger running or get lucky with Divine Purpose procs or whatever.  


If you're about to die and have used ShoR a lot, its ok to use WoG to save yourself in emergency.  As long as you don't do it very often your ShoRs will generate a lot of stacks of Bastion which will buff your WoGs substantially.  But if you start trying to do it a lot, you won't have many stacks of Bastion, your WoGs will suck and they won't save you.

If you took HA or SW at level 75, when those abilities are active you'll generate a *TON* of HoPo so expect to be firing off ShoR a lot until its over. Use them on the pull, and after that strike a balance between using them when things are bad and using them as often as possible.

Obviously use your cooldowns on big nasty boss abilities. Our biggest defensive cooldown is GoAK, followed by AD, and then DP. Plan out ahead of time when boss abilities will happen and which cooldown(s) you'll use on each. HA is pretty great as a defensive cooldown as well.  And if you know a big physical attack is coming, its worth delaying a ShoR slightly to make sure the big attack comes during ShoR's duration.

Now onto the actual guide:


Protection Paladin 6.0 Guide


First, lets lay out some assumptions:

- Minimal levels of other stats. Some stats make each other better (Haste and Mastery), some make each other worse (Crit and anything), and some don't really interact (Multistrike and anything. Well, maybe very slightly with Crit). The interactions are too complicated to do by hand, but Theck will probably have it down to the 5th decimal point by the time anyone has enough gear for it to be a serious problem.

- 50% ShoR uptime, and no base Mastery so it reduces damage by 20%. In a Patchwerk fight, with all your talents, raidbuffs and pre-raid gear, you should be able to maintain 50+% ShoR uptime with Holy Shield or Emp Seals, dropping to 35-40% if you use Seraphim.

- No Holy Shield, so we'll go with 15% block chance, and a successful block reduces damage taken by 40%. Specing into HS significantly improves Mastery (not nearly enough to catch Armor, though).

- We generate about 30% of our own healing. This obviously varies enormously from fight to fight and situation to situation, but this feels at least ballpark-correct to me (its about half what it was in MoP, which is part of why Haste is suddenly so bad. ShoR's base value being cut by 1/3 from 30% to 20%, plus a whopping ton less itemization available to boost that further, is the rest).


Now the actual stats

Bonus Armor - Each 100 point "chunk" will reduce your physical damage taken by 1.5% and provides +100 AP. That's powerful, but it does nothing for magic damage.

Mastery - Each 100 point "chunk" will give us 0.9% more ShoR damage reduction (on top of a base 20%, so really we're reducing damage by 0.9*1.25 = 1.1%) which is active 50% of the time, so we're talking 0.55% damage reduction. Additionally, it increases our block chance by 0.9%. We're already at 15% (higher if you take HS), so it actually increases it by a little under 20%, bringing us to 0.9*1.18 = 1.05% (close enough). And if we block, we reduce damage by 40%, so we're looking at 1.05% * 40% = 0.42%.So 100 points of Mastery is worth roughly 0.95%. It will also increase your AP by roughly 0.9%.

Multistrike - Each 100 point "chunk" will give us a 1.5% chance of increasing any incoming heals (ours and anyone else's) by 30%. 1.5% * 30% = 0.45%, so we're effectively increasing our incoming healing by 0.45%. Additionally, we gain a 3% chance of increasing our own heals by 30% (technically its 2 individual 1.5% chances, but this is close enough) which gains us a .03 * 30% = 0.9% boost to self-healing which is another 0.9 * 0.3 = 0.27% boost to overall healing(the exact same amount as Crit and Haste, almost like they intended it that way), giving a total of 0.45 + 0.27 = 0.72% increase to our healing received.Additionally, we gain a 3% chance of increasing our attacks by 30% (technically its 2 individual 1.5% chances, but this is close enough) which gains us a .03 * 30% = 0.9% boost to damage done.

Versatility - Each 100 point "chunk" will reduce your total damage taken by 0.4% and increase your self-healing by 0.8% (so, 0.8 * 0.3 = 0.24% overall healing received) and increases your damage done by 0.8%.

Crit - Each 100 point chunk will give us 0.6% of Parry (reduced for DR, which is pretty minimal right now but will go up as the expansion progresses). With current levels of avoidance, this is worth perhaps 0.6% damage reduction (albeit only against Parry-able damage). Also, it provides another 0.9% in self-healing from critting our self-healing more (yes, Sacred Shield can both Crit and Multi-strike) which is worth 0.9 * 0.3 = 0.27% in additional incoming healing. Also, it will increase our damage done by 0.9%

Haste - Each 100 point "chunk" will increase your self-healing by 0.9% or 0.27% more healing. Additionally, we get 0.9% multiplicative uptime on ShoR (not a flat +0.9%, instead its 0.9%*50%, so we gain an additional 0.45% uptime). We're assuming ShoR carries 20% damage reduction, so this reduces our damage taken by 0.45*20% = ~0.1%. Also it increases our damage done by ~0.9%. As you can see, this is pretty bad compared to the other stats.


Evaluating stats against each other is difficult because comparing a reduction in damage taken to an increase in healing received is a very difficult comparison to make in a vacuum. We don't know how valuable they are relative to each other, and it will probably be a while until we have enough data to make an informed call. Instead, I'm going to display the stats relative to each other:

Stat DR Healing Damage

BArmor 1.5 0 ?

Mast 1.0 0 ?

Mult 0 0.72 0.9

Vers 0.4 0.24 0.8

Crit 0.6 0.27 0.9

Haste 0.1 0.27 0.9

As is hopefully obvious, Bonus Armor is easily our best ability, Mastery is second, and Haste is dead last. However, there is room for fudging between Multistrike, Versatility, and Crit.

Crit reduces your damage taken the most, but does not affect non-Parry-able damage (including any magic), and its boost to self-healing is by far the spikiest and least efficient. Versatility reduces your damage taken by less than Crit, but it works on everything, and its boost to self-healing is extremely smooth and efficient. Multistrike only boosts your healing taken, but it also works on external heals.

The value generated by each of the 3 is close enough that choosing a "best" stat could easily change from fight to fight.

Weighting them, I would go something like:

1.5 Bonus Armor

1.0 Mastery

0.6 Multistrike

0.55 Versatility

0.5 Crit

0.25 Haste

Rotational Abilities

[Avenger Shield] - Hard hitting spell attack which requires the Paladin to throw their shield (requires a shield to be equipped to use) at a target. If it hits, the shield will chain to up to 2 more targets and it will intelligently avoid cc’ed enemies. Each target hit is damaged, interrupted and silenced for 3 seconds. Grand Crusader procs from CS will refresh the cd and cause an AS cast to grant 1 HoPo. Hard hitting popular pulling tool. 30 yard range, 15 second cd.

[Consecration]- Decently hard hitting AoE spell attack which creates a glowing patch of ground under your feet with a 10 yard radius lasting 9 seconds and periodically damaging all enemies within its area. 9 second duration, 9 second cooldown. Ticks every second.

[Crusader Strike] - Soft hitting melee attack which generates a charge of Holy Power if it hits and applies a seal. *DOES* apply Weakened Blows debuff to opponents and shares a cooldown with HotR (it didn't used to, you used to have to cast HotR for it). 4.5 second cd which it shares with HotR.

[Hammer of the Righteous]- AoE version of CS, does the exact same thing. Swap from CS to this at 3 or 4 targets. 4.5 second cd which it shares with CS.

[Hammer of Wrath] - Hard hitting execute ability only useable on targets under 20% health. 30 yard range, 6 second cd.

[Holy Wrath] - Hard-hitting Meteor-style spell AoE attack. Single target, its our hardest hitting ability after AS. Does a flat amount of holy damage which is evenly spread among all possible targets. So the more targets in range, the softer it will hit each one. Also stuns demons and undead in range for 3 seconds, and can be glyphed to stun more creature types. 10 yard burst range, 9 second cd.

[Judgment] – Medium hitting ranged melee ability which generates a charge of Holy Power and applies a seal. J is special in that it can Miss but cannot be Dodged or Parried. This means that Expertise does nothing for it. Once you hit 7.5% Hit, it'll land every time, baring special mechanics. 30 yard range, 6 second cooldown.

[Sacred Shield] - Must be talented into. SS is a self-renewing absorb shield you can cast on any friendly target, but you should generally cast it on yourself (or possibly the other tank if its a tank swap). A paladin can only have 1 SS up at a time, but multiple paladins can all stack their SS's on the same target. SS lasts 30 seconds, and every 6 seconds after its cast, puts up an absorb shield. The first shield goes up 6 seconds after SS is cast. Every 6 seconds after that, the shield is renewed back to full absorption regardless of how much damage it took during the prior 6 seconds. Haste makes it better, shortening the time between refreshes and with enough Haste eventually adding more refreshes per cast. 40 yard range, 6 second cooldown (though after each recast, there is a 6 second delay before the first shield comes up).

[Shield of the Righteous] - Used to be our principle single target attack, now it's a medium-hitting, off-GCD melee attack which we will still use frequently for its value in Active Mitigation. This requires 3 HoPo to use and as such will not activate unless you have at least that much on your HoPo gauge. When used, reduces physical damage taken by 20% (Mastery increases this up to a cap of 80%) for 3 seconds and adds 1 stack of Bastion of Glory (BoG increases healing done by your next WoG by 6%. Stacks up to 5 times). Note that the increased damage reduction from Mastery is not recalculated if you refresh the duration of ShoR. So if you pop a Mastery trinket mid-ShoR, it won't do that ShoR any good but it will improve the next one. If you bank up a bunch of HoPo and pop Holy Avenger, and then pop a Mastery trinket just before the first ShoR goes out, you might be able to roll that Mastery bonus for longer than its stated duration. 1.5 second cd which is now reduced by Haste so Bloodlust/Heroism no longer can cause conflicts.

[Word of Glory] - No longer has a cooldown nor can it be used for pre-emptive shielding. An instant, off-GCD HoPo powered heal with no mana cost. Can be used offensively as a damage spell with the Glyph of Harsh Words. 40 yard range,


These abilities help you survive situations where your risk of death is elevated. These situations range from the obvious - a special attack on a predictable timer - to the more subtle but no less deadly, like a debuff that disables or distracts your healers. Here are a couple guidelines for using cooldowns effectively:

- Use cooldowns before you take damage. If you use GoAK at 500k HP, the cooldown is effectively adding 500k more HP before you die. If you wait until things look bad and you reach 200k HP, it only adds an effective 200k HP. Waiting to use your cooldowns until you're at low HP makes them less effective.

- You get the most impact by waiting to use cooldowns during the most dangerous situations, but the more frequently you use them, the more total value you get. It's a balancing act.

- Match the cooldown to the level of threat by planning your cooldown usage before the fight. Save GoAK for when you know a big hit is coming, but unless there is a special ability with which it lines up well, DP should be used early and often even on regular incoming damage.

[Ardent Defender] - While active, reduces all damage taken by 20%. Additionally, one attack that would have killed the paladin (must happen while AD is active) will instead heal the paladin for 15% of max health. Note that this does not typically work on environmental effects, such as falling damage, and a fewbig hit boss abilities are able to negate the save death ability. However, most abilities do not. 10 second duration, 3 minute cd.

[Divine Protection] - DP has been changed so that, while active, it provides a 40% reduction in magic damage taken but does not affect physical damage. It can be glyphed back to the Cata version of 20% damage reduction against everything. 8 second duration, 1 minute cd.

[Divine Shield] - Makes the Paladin temporarily invulnerable but also reduces damage done by 50% and removes the tank from the boss’s aggro table. Many “big hit†boss abilities are able to penetrate DS (Garalon's Massive Crush being an example). Using DS typically makes the boss immediately turn and attack someone else, so needs to be used with care. It is often used in conjunction with a /cancel macro to quickly cast and remove the effect, as it clears many, though not all, debuffs. This ability also causes Forbearance. Note that both Divine Shield and Hand of Protection can both be used, carefully, as true defensive cooldowns by pairing them with taunts. Cannot be cast while Forbearance is in effect. Causes Forbearance for 1 minute. 10 second duration, 5 minute cd.

If a Paladin tank pops Divine Shield, then immediately taunts the mob, instead of heading for the next target on its aggro table, the mob will be stuck on the tank for the duration of the fixate (3 seconds). Obviously the mob will head for the next target as soon as the fixate expires. So while this can be a clever way of avoiding damage entirely for a few seconds, it must be used very carefully and probably in conjuction with a macro to quickly remove the shield. The Glyph of Righteous Retreat makes the activation time of a Hearthstone shorter than the duration of DS, allowing for a bubble-hearth (which should not be used mid-raid, because that would be "bad").

[Guardian of Ancient Kings] - This is now the major cooldown for tanking Paladins. GAK will reduce damage to the tanking Paladin by 50%. 8 second duration, 3 minute cd.

[Hand of Protection] - Hand of Protection can be used on yourself or any party or raid member. While active, it makes the target immune to physical damage but also prevents them from attacking physically (spells are still fine) and also cleanses many physical effects like bleeds. Its like DS in that if you cast it on yourself while tanking, it will often cause you to lose aggro and the boss will turn and destroy someone else. Cannot be cast while Forbearance is in effect. Causes Forbearance for 1 minute. 40 yard range, 10 second duration, 5 minute cd.

[Lay on Hands] - LoH remains an important cooldown for tanking Paladins. Cannot be cast while Forebearance is in effect. Casting it will heal the target equal to the maximum health of the casting Paladin. It is off the global cooldown, cannot crit heal, is not effected by many healing boosting effects, and will cause Forbearance for 1 minute on whomever it's cast. 10 minute cd.

Buffs, Taunts, Interrupts, & Stuns

[Rebuke] - Now a baseline ability, this allows you to interrupt spellcasting, and like all non-damaging interrupts it cannot miss.

[Reckoning] - Single target taunt, never misses. Increases your threat to equal whatever player has the highest amount of threat on the target. Also forces target to fixate on you (only attacks you) for 3 seconds. During the fixate period, your threat generation on that target is increased by a further 200%, so be sure and hit it with something hard during those 3 seconds. 30 yard range, 8 second cd.

[Hammer of Justice] - A dedicated stunning ability. 20 yard range, 1 minute cd.

[Blessing of Kings] - Now increases party and raid members STR, AGIL and INT by 5%. Does not increase STA or Spirit.

[Blessing of Might] - Now increases party and raid members Mastery by an amount that scales with level.

[Righteous Fury] - This ability increases all threat generated by 500%. Also Blizzard has been nice enough to remind Paladins in the tool tip that this ability makes you a better tank.


Credits and Resources

Thanks to Darkside, Malthrin, and emptyrepublic from whom I’ve taken the formatting.
Theck and the rest of the Maintankadin crew for their vast awesomeness.
Also thank you to Corylus, Ronark, and Celydrashad for the advice and suggestions.

Other excellent sources for information on Prot Pally theorycrafting are:

Theck's Sacred Duty Blog (cutting edge Theck material!) - Sacred Duty | A Protection Paladin Blog

Maintankadin, particularly the Advanced Theorycrafting and Calculations section - Maintankadin • View forum - Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations


Another good resource is the newly re-done CLCProt by Adeya, the counterpart to CLCRet.  http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=23105#info

[Prot 6.0] - Kiss with a Fist
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#2273423 DBM Localizers needed

Posted by MysticalOS on 01 April 2014 - 08:50 PM

DBM is in dire need of localizers for the following languages:
ptBR (Portuguese)
zhCN (Simplified Chinese)
esES/esMX (Spanish)
frFR (French)
itIT (Italian)

*Currently these languages have poor or no support in DBM which causes fights blizzard likes to use yells/emotes as triggers (instead of CLEU) to be unsupported or poorly supported in DBM.
*This also causes warning text or option text to display in english for features added to DBM since last time these languages were updated. We cannot add translations for languages wow itself does not support so the languages above are the ONLY languages we're looking for.

You don't have to be a programmer to help is localize text. If you see something in english and want it in your own language, you can post updates on forum or in a PM to me. If you are familiar with svn and editing localization files in UTF-8 format, we can give you svn access to do the updates yourself. All DBM code is in LUA.
*This is a volunteer gig only to help make mod more functional and usable by your peers and is not a paid opening. The work involved is also very little. Once things are localized the work is usually maybe a couple minutes here and there to localize anything I update or change every once in a while. If you are thinking this is a full time or payed job opportunity, it is not.
How To:
1. The main thing that needs translation, are localization files inside Siege of Orgrimmar Folder, DBM-Core and DBM-GUI.
2. Basically, open localization.en (english file) and then compare with existing local files in your language (or if they don't exist in your language yet, copy english file and then translate the text to your language using the english file as a template.
3. After making edits, you can share them on sites such as pastebin.com or paste2.org. Then post link to that paste here. Alternatively you can PM me to ask me for an email you can send files to. If your work looks good and you are comfortable with direct svn access I may grant you a login so you can do further commits on your own. However, I like to review your work first before I do that to ensure you have a basic understanding of the file editing before risking harmful commits to main repository so I generally prefer you send me edited files or paste them online first.
Additional Notes:
1. "Option" and "Warning" lines generally can be translated best wording you choose. "Misc" ones generally require it to be an exact match to blizzards in game translation because often those are for chat based triggers like a boss yelling something. Those can be grabbed using /chatlog in game for encounter that needs them.
2. There is a formatting difference between tables in english file vs non english files, that's for coding reasons to prevent incomplete translations from overwriting the entire table and then causing nil errors for missing translations. Those are supposed to not match. This is intended.
The part I mean on that is

	target = "%s on >%%s<",


DBM_CORE_AUTO_ANNOUNCE_TEXTS.target		= "%s sur >%%s<"

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#2271689 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by ZOS_Wheeler on 23 December 2013 - 05:00 PM

Question: Is ESO pure pvp mmo? i'm more a pve crafting person and social etc not much of a pvp'er is there something in ESO for people like me?


Answer: Cyrodiil is only one aspect of Elder Scrolls Online.  You start your journey in the Alliance territory doing Quests, learning the story of your Alliance, dungeon crawling, exploring and crafting.  As odd as it sounds coming from the "pvp guy" I enjoy crafting in ESO very much!  I find myself roaming around the game looking for materials to craft new armor and weapons and all the while exploring to find out the story.  The crafting system is very robust and will hopefully engage you as much as it has me!

  • wesphilly06 and Soulece like this

#2271572 No flying in 6.0

Posted by Soulece on 18 December 2013 - 11:51 PM

WoW functioned just fine before flying mounts and even when flying mounts were in the game but few could afford them. I feel it will be good for everyone to step back and see the world again without flying. As flying mounts became more prevalent and cheaper, it really disconnected people from the world, which hurts your immersion and typically loss of immersion causes disinterest in a game. I think a lack of flying mounts for a month or two will be good for everyone and break the addiction to flying mounts.


Blizzard even said themselves that they regret adding flying mounts into the game and I agree with it for the most part. I think the thing about flying mounts that disconnected people from the world is most people (myself included) will just mount up, get high enough they won't bump into any mountains and then numlock auto fly long distances across the continent to our destination and then AFK, ignoring the world around us. You can't do that with ground mounts for obvious reasons.

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#2271514 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by Alucard on 18 December 2013 - 10:04 PM


Thank you for taking time to come here and answer our questions.

1 - What plans does ZOS have to implement Necromancy into ESO?


2 - With the hint of both the Werewolf and Vampire lines being available, how often will a player be confronted with the choice of becoming either? (or both) Are these random occurrences or based on a main/side quest line and zone specific?


And will the above effect PvP in any way? Can you rush into battle as a werewolf with added bonus attacks and crippling deficiencies.



  • ElderNyx and Tyre like this

#2271478 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by Arxkanite on 18 December 2013 - 09:32 PM

Hello and sorry in advance,


Is ESO pure pvp mmo? i'm more a pve crafting person and social etc not much of a pvp'er is there something in ESO for people like me?

I'm not Brian, but there is tons to do PVE. I seen a lot of crafting, fishing, gathering, and questing. I'm mostly a PVE Player myself. I love PvP, but most days I just want to relax and enjoy a single player game.

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#2271477 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by ZOS_Wheeler on 18 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

Hey Brian. I've been a hardcore fan of TES series and it's lore for 15 years now and at first ESO worried me but after seeing the info you have released about the game, I'm very excited for the game.


This question is more in connection to Cyrodiil, the pvp zone, instead of PvP itself. In the guide to Tamriel, Cyrodiil used to have jungles. Then when Oblivion came out, the jungle was absent and that was explained by Talos changing the climate. However, ESO is set before the birth of Tiber Septim. Will Cyrodiil have jungles?

Cyrodiil in our timeline will look very familiar to Oblivion, however much more spread out.  To the question of Jungles in Cyrodiil and the question of Tiber Septim changing the climate, we have a book in the game for you to find for more details about that hiding in Cyrodiil itself ;)

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#2271465 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by E'Teren on 18 December 2013 - 09:27 PM

What is the purpose of limiting communication like this, Brian?  Not to be too negative but this is a gamebreaker for me, as I play for the social aspect more than anything.

You're at war! There is no fraternizing (or socializing) with the enemy! Pick up your sword and run them through if you want to communicate!!!

  • tstickroe and Metrica like this

#2271437 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by Lydo on 18 December 2013 - 09:04 PM

Hi Brian and thanks for showing up here, im really excited to see the PvP of TESO.


I know the only PvP area at launch will be Cyrodiil but are there any plans to add small scale rated pvp such as 3v3, 5v5, battlegrounds and so on after launch? How about a dueling system? Thanks.

  • Skylatron and Skrull like this

#2271429 Dec. 18th @ 4pm EST - Exclusive Q&A With Zenimax Studios PvP Developer Br...

Posted by DarthRupert on 18 December 2013 - 09:00 PM

Hello Brian,


What stats or unqiue abilities will the Emperor's armor possess?

Are there plans to add more seige equipment? (ex. ladders or seige towers)
If so what types can you hint at?
What types of PvE content can I do to help my alliance in Cyrodiil?

  • Aziah and Soulflame like this

#2270265 [Ret 5.4 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Siege the Day

Posted by Exemplar on 30 October 2013 - 12:49 PM

Please see new "Do Not Ask" questions at top of OP. Most importantly:
Stat weights/priority. It depends on YOUR gear. Use one of the modeling tools and test for yourself.

Having this question arise every third page with the same answer can drown out fledgling discussions on other, newer Ret-related topics.  I'm as complicit as anyone else by trying to answer it repeatedly, so I hope no one feels targeted.

I've also added a "Do Not Ask" regarding ability priority. To make sure this is fully clarified, this is specifically directed towards "What is the best" questions. It is not meant to stifle the excellent posts (statements) that crop up as people test new possibilities in SimCraft. I encourage folks to continue to test possibilities and present them before the community along with your results data.
  • Belatar and Curulan like this

#2277433 [WoD] Marksmanship 6.0

Posted by Effinhunter on 18 December 2014 - 06:21 AM

I assume this is to validate Niix's advice/guidance here? http://www.icy-veins...r-guide/page-20


As far as I know, crit suppression is still in the game. For a boss 3 levels above you, you would need 103% to crit. That's why MMO Champion has people discussing theorycrafting for 38% and 43% thresholds to determine when crit hits a certain plateau during CA (though crit is still useful after this point due to the fact that CA is only between 12-15% of the fight). At this point, crit should decline slightly in value. It certainly doesn't become the worst stat for MM after this soft cap, but multistrike definitely becomes more valuable in comparison.


As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't focus too hard on hitting that cap. As you gear, I would more recommend trying reforge plots in Simcraft of MS vs Crit to determine if you are better served with crit or MS enchants/scopes. I would have to agree with Azor and others that the most obvious place to add MS as a preferred stat would be after hitting the CA soft crit cap, but there are other points along the MM gear path that also have preference for MS over CS because of synergies between the two secondaries (and other stats for that matter).

  • Iridar likes this

#2277368 [WoD] Marksmanship 6.0

Posted by Effinhunter on 15 December 2014 - 08:44 PM

Full single target talent sims (including no tier 90 talent) for MM mythic with the updated action list for GT and Barrage best practices:


Simcraft Settings






  • Iridar likes this

#2277365 [WoD] Marksmanship 6.0

Posted by Effinhunter on 15 December 2014 - 04:22 PM

I've checked Simcraft versions back to simc-548-7-win64 (7/18/2014), and this does not appear to have been included in the sample MM profile action list at any point. We had talked about this before (not using Barrage during TotH), but I can't see any evidence of it being reflected in the Simcraft profile.


Anyway, here are the results for GT and Barrage with making similar changes to prefer aimed in TotH. I'm pretty sure we could make this a little bit better by having conditionals on the barrage and GT to only use if CS has enough focus by the time its cooldown is back up though. Settings and results are provided for Simcraft 603-18 (12/15/2014).


Simcraft Settings





Edit: Added breakdown for not using Tier 90 talent at all.

  • Iridar likes this

#2277354 NEWS: Lost in Transformation

Posted by MysticalOS on 12 December 2014 - 06:41 PM

World of Warcraft
Gravity Well

Veluux takes a look at what makes an MMO truly feel rewarding and puts those implications to the test against his current experience in the MMO market of today.

View the full article
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