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[WOTLK 4.0] Cats

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Is the buff conusmed when you use 1 ravage or can you cast it multiple times during the duration?

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Is the buff conusmed when you use 1 ravage or can you cast it multiple times during the duration?

It's currently bugged, when you charge with the talents ravage vanishes from your cast bars until the buff is gone.

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It's currently bugged, when you charge with the talents ravage vanishes from your cast bars until the buff is gone.

Does it disappear from the spell book as well?

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I've just seen that Blizzard has removed all the attack power from leather. They have also removed Feral Attack power (now we will use weapon damage). My questions are:

- Are they going to change RIP/Rake/FB scaling (now they scale with AP).

- What about bear? Are they going to give us an agility to AP conversion also for bear? Otherwise I see huge damage scaling problems.

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I've just seen that Blizzard has removed all the attack power from leather. They have also removed Feral Attack power (now we will use weapon damage). My questions are:

- Are they going to change RIP/Rake/FB scaling (now they scale with AP).

- What about bear? Are they going to give us an agility to AP conversion also for bear? Otherwise I see huge damage scaling problems.

Yes, the new tooltip for Bear Form (they seem to remove gimmick Dire Bear Form and replace it with actual Savage Defense mechanic available at level 40) also states 'Causes agility to increase attack power'.

Source - MMO-Champion.

Other abilities' coefficients can also be previewed on that page.

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Also note that the mana cost has been dropped to 5% of base mana. If you were worrying about the mana cost reducing talents being scrapped, this should make you feel a bit better again.

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Old Savage Defense: Absorbs 25% of your attack power

New: Provides a damage absorption shield that absorbs a percentage of incoming attacks (32% at 51 points)

I guess the way it should be understood is that if a boss hits me for 100k I will absorb 32% where before it was probably what? 2,5k at 10k AP?

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It's changed to fit with the new block mechanics that Pallys and Warriors also recieve that will mitigate a set percentage of incomming damage. This is to make the tanking classes view block as a significant mitigation tool rather than something that trivialised fast low damage mobs (such as heroic packs or the adds on AN25HM) but was useless against slow larger hits (That most bosses use). In the context of raid bosses its a nice survivability boost for the three tanking classes that use block.

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Old Savage Defense: Absorbs 25% of your attack power

New: Provides a damage absorption shield that absorbs a percentage of incoming attacks (32% at 51 points)

I guess the way it should be understood is that if a boss hits me for 100k I will absorb 32% where before it was probably what? 2,5k at 10k AP?

I was under the impression that the Savage Defense mastery was going to be the one that scales with our mastery stat instead of talent points. Does anyone know if this is implemented yet, and if so what benefits mastery gives?

Also, I saw some conflicting information in "The Tank Thread" on the Cataclysm forums:

Savage Defense is now a 50% chance on Critical Strike to put up a shield worth 75% of our total Attack Power.

I really hope that this is false. Is anyone able to confirm?

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Old Savage Defense: Absorbs 25% of your attack power

New: Provides a damage absorption shield that absorbs a percentage of incoming attacks (32% at 51 points)

I guess the way it should be understood is that if a boss hits me for 100k I will absorb 32% where before it was probably what? 2,5k at 10k AP?

As far as I can see from early abilities description, Savage Defense is now 50% chance to proc after our crit to absorb for our AP * 0.75. Mastery bonus increases absorb value by 32% up to our AP * 0.75 * (1 + 0.32) = AP * 1.

So if, for example, you have 50% crit and 10k AP, then new Savage Defense will give you 25% chance on attack to proc absorb shield for up to 10k damage. Savage Defense that we have now gives 50% chance to proc 2.5k absorb shield.

As it stands now, Savage Defense grants low absorb barriers with good uptime. This gives us very good survivability versus light hitting targets, like trash, when soloing old world dungeons etc. Cataclysm significantly buffs absorb value, making it really matter for hard hitting bosses, but also lowers its overall uptime, leaving us more vulnerable to said trash. I see this reflects Blizzard stance on bringing back CC to raids really well.

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Keep in mind that weapons no longer carry Feral AP and that gear no longer has AP as a standalone stat, so our overall AP is much lower in Cata than it is now. My AP in bear form on Live is 7344, in the exact same gear in the Beta I have 3720 AP.

After some very quick testing I can confirm that Savage Defense procs on some but not all crits, so I have no reason to distrust the stated 50% proc rate. I haven't had a chance to really test the shield size, but I can say that it's at least more than the current 25% of AP, that the buff tooltip still states 25% of AP, that the spellbook tooltip states 75% of AP, and that neither tooltip changes if your Mastery level changes.

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Since this is relevant to half, soon to be 1/4th the druids in Cataclysm, any word on racials? Will Tauren finally have the Holy Grail of being able to War Stomp in Bear Forms? Any other racials that are of note that have been implemented or changed? Seems like it's the only thing that hasn't been plastered all over the internet.

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Keep in mind that weapons no longer carry Feral AP and that gear no longer has AP as a standalone stat, so our overall AP is much lower in Cata than it is now. My AP in bear form on Live is 7344, in the exact same gear in the Beta I have 3720 AP.

Can you give us any indication of how things hold up now? Obviously, scaling has been increased a lot (just look at the ravage numbers), but I've the sneaking suspicion that once we take into account losing half our AP, it might well mean we actually wound up just where we started.

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Since this is relevant to half, soon to be 1/4th the druids in Cataclysm, any word on racials? Will Tauren finally have the Holy Grail of being able to War Stomp in Bear Forms? Any other racials that are of note that have been implemented or changed? Seems like it's the only thing that hasn't been plastered all over the internet.

I'm not sure regarding taurens, but the night elf racials are unchanged at this point in the beta. The only issue of note is that the worgen sprint racial shares a cooldown with dash.

Edit: Just tested tauren - stomp still breaks form.

Edit edit: Also, Draenei hit aura is gone, so that might be something to consider.

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Can you give us any indication of how things hold up now? Obviously, scaling has been increased a lot (just look at the ravage numbers), but I've the sneaking suspicion that once we take into account losing half our AP, it might well mean we actually wound up just where we started.

I assume this holds for us, too:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker | WotLK > Cata = Loss in Spellpower?

WotLK to Cataclysm Spellpower Conversion

We're trying to keep everyone at about the same power level at 80. We want your Fireballs and Flash Heals to show about the same numbers before and after the conversion.

Now as soon as you gain a level from 80 to 81 all bets are off and numbers are going to start changing dramatically.

I'd be a little interested to hear about how the damage scales as people level up in the beta.

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Can you give us any indication of how things hold up now? Obviously, scaling has been increased a lot (just look at the ravage numbers), but I've the sneaking suspicion that once we take into account losing half our AP, it might well mean we actually wound up just where we started.

The numbers at level 82 with a 0/0/0 spec:

Cat form

Shred - 225% weapon damage + 698

Ravage - 550% weapon damage + 1705

Swipe - 125% weapon damage

Rake - [185 + AP/65] initial damage plus [370 + AP/11] damage per tick

Rip - [525 + AP/13.5] damage per tick at 5CP {135 + AP/67.5 at 1CP}

Bear form

Feral Faerie Fire - [AP*0.15] damage

Lacerate - [73 + AP/36] initial damage plus [63 + AP/32] damage per tick

These numbers are all very rough and many are different from the tooltip explanations. I'll hold off on adding any numbers to the original post at least until the level cap is raised to 85. I'll also note that most talents and masteries seem to be working correctly, though I have not extensively tested them.

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Since this is relevant to half, soon to be 1/4th the druids in Cataclysm, any word on racials? Will Tauren finally have the Holy Grail of being able to War Stomp in Bear Forms? Any other racials that are of note that have been implemented or changed? Seems like it's the only thing that hasn't been plastered all over the internet.
At the moment even troll berserking breaks forms which I'm pretty sure has to get fixed, so it's not time to look at racials yet.

edit: actually berserking doesn't break forms anymore so if you want to be pesimistic I guess warstomp still will

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I'd be a little interested to hear about how the damage scales as people level up in the beta.
As an example, my mangle did about 4500 on crits pre-SR at level 80 with mostly 264 level gear. When I dinged 81 I was doing 6k regularly. This was in cat form. Some basic testing seemed to follow with rake.

Currently Endless Rage is bugged and does not give an increase to Savage Roar's duration. Improved Feral Charge doesn't work in any way, shape or form with ravage. Swipe may be nerfed, but it appears to be doing significantly less damage than currently. Faerie fire doesn't work.

Also interesting to note - I gained about 5k health going from 80 to 81. In cat form.

Maul glyph hits a second target for 50% of the maul damage.

Any other questions on specific functionality? I'm not bothering with bear form for the most part given that swipe's threat is so miniscule currently (even with thrash), maul is broken and there's no FF, and the experience currently as a tank is simply not that enjoyable.

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I don't see that happening actually. Looking at Rupture, the closest equivalent we have to Rip, you'll see pretty much the same thing. It doesn't scale with weapon damage at all, purely with stats. Adjusting the multipliers will let us function much the same as our stealthy sneaky counterparts. I'd much sooner see them take that route.

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I see our core problem of AP scaling seems to finally being fixed now.

Ferals used to have up to 3 times as much AP as rogues. So given that we should be able to produce more or less the same DPS as rogues do, and our shared leather items increase our AP by a flat amount (not percentage), rogues gets more percentage buff from items than ferals do. This means if we are balanced in one tier of gear, then we would start to fall behind in the next one.

So, this is just a balancing step, our AP values will get more in line with rogues' ones. Then no matter what exact coefficients on our spells are, we will stay competitve through all the course of Cataclysm.

I'd say our abilites got buffed significantly rather then nerfed. First of all, if our AP just got down, but damage stayed about the same then it's no more than a numbers rejuggle (or no change) for now. And then it's a long term scaling buff.

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I'm not sure regarding taurens, but the night elf racials are unchanged at this point in the beta. The only issue of note is that the worgen sprint racial shares a cooldown with dash.

Edit: Just tested tauren - stomp still breaks form.

Edit edit: Also, Draenei hit aura is gone, so that might be something to consider.

Does the worgen sprint racial break Bear Form? If it doesn't that would lessen the sting of being on the same cooldown as Dash. Oh, that would make for a very mobile Bear. <.<;

Any word on whether our /cast !<druid form> snarebreak macros still work either? Probably ill-advised to use as a Bear in the future, once rage is normalized, but it certainly still has Cat PvE and PvP implications. Although now that I think about it, it *does* become slightly more appealing as a burst of emergency rage when grounded out... trading mana for rage... especially if Hybrids move away from the traditional 3/5 Furor to 5/5 Furor. (Straight bears, it's a foregone conclusion that they'll go 5/5 anyways, right?)

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The numbers at level 82 with a 0/0/0 spec:

Cat form

Shred - 225% weapon damage + 698

Ravage - 550% weapon damage + 1705

Swipe - 125% weapon damage

Rake - [185 + AP/65] initial damage plus [370 + AP/11] damage per tick

Rip - [525 + AP/13.5] damage per tick at 5CP {135 + AP/67.5 at 1CP}

Bear form

Feral Faerie Fire - [AP*0.15] damage

Lacerate - [73 + AP/36] initial damage plus [63 + AP/32] damage per tick

These numbers are all very rough and many are different from the tooltip explanations. I'll hold off on adding any numbers to the original post at least until the level cap is raised to 85. I'll also note that most talents and masteries seem to be working correctly, though I have not extensively tested them.

What, not going to mention the new values of mangle in hopes that it doesn't get nerfed? Mangle sims(with shred on OOC) sims come pretty close to shred in live today. Even with 30% more weapon damage on mangle, shred still holds a slightly higher DPE. But more combo points and just plain easier to use should make mangle the obvious choice.

That's not even taking into account the new execute-like talent for ferocious bite making the shred glyph useless for 25% of the fight. I can't wait until simcraft is updated for cataclysm beta.

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I didn't do Mangle because there's more testing I want to do with a 0/0/0 spec (you'll notice I got almost no numbers on bear abilities yet) and respeccing is a bit of a pain with no druid trainer near target dummies. That said, despite the buffs to Mangle I fully expect a Shred rotation to end up being indisputably superior in PvE, else there would be no reason to have Shred.

Edit: Something I wanted to add in my last post but forgot is how weapons work now. With a 0/0/0 spec and no gear at level 82 as a Night Elf, you have 158 AP from 89 Strength (10 Strength doesn't seem to contribute AP), 160 AP from 90 Agility (again, 10 of it doesn't seem to contribute AP), and 164 AP from Cat Form or 120 AP from Bear Form for a total of 482/438, and a damage range of 35-36 / 79-80. Your damage range stays at just 1 until you add a weapon. It works exactly like you'd expect - divide both the minimum and maximum values by the speed and add that damage directly to your current damage range. For bears you have to multiply by 2.5 and add that value.

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I managed to test a few more abilities before the servers went down:

Bear form

Thrash - [40 + AP/25] initial damage plus [15 + AP/75] damage per tick

Swipe - [50 + AP/16] damage

Maul (100 rage) - [5 + AP/1.5] damage

Interesting things to note are that Swipe does not have any interaction with Thrash at this point, and that both the initial damage and (oddly) the bleed portions of Thrash are affected by armor (above values are pre-armor reduction). When the servers come back up I'll get Maul at different rage values and Mangle.

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Does the worgen sprint racial break Bear Form? If it doesn't that would lessen the sting of being on the same cooldown as Dash. Oh, that would make for a very mobile Bear. <.<;

Any word on whether our /cast !<druid form> snarebreak macros still work either? Probably ill-advised to use as a Bear in the future, once rage is normalized, but it certainly still has Cat PvE and PvP implications. Although now that I think about it, it *does* become slightly more appealing as a burst of emergency rage when grounded out... trading mana for rage... especially if Hybrids move away from the traditional 3/5 Furor to 5/5 Furor. (Straight bears, it's a foregone conclusion that they'll go 5/5 anyways, right?)

Dark Flight does NOT break form. Snare-break macros still work.

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