Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

malthrin

The Way of the Light: Holy in Cataclysm

336 posts in this topic

Crit is still a bad stat for healers in general. I don't like my healing to be RNG dependent. The real trick is going to be knowing the balance of Int-Haste-SP that works for you in Cata.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've redone my calculations and come to the conclusion, that Spirit is in fact not that much superior, about 8k Mana over the course of a five minute fight.

You cannot assume AT, even more so now that Tauren can be paladins. AT is amazingly powerful for mana regen, and it is Maxmana based so it makes Int look better. You also have the mana regen part wrong, should be:

(0.005 + 5 * Spirit * Sqrt(Int) * 0.003345) * 0.5 = Mp5 in combat from spirit.

However, some numbers that might be amusing:

Level 85, 6000 spellpower, 5% Raid haste buff, 0 Haste from gear, No Crits, LoD and SoI Glyphs, 3/3 Crusade, 3/3 Divinity:


		Beacon	Beacon		Beacon		Tower	Tower

		HL	3HS:6HL:LoD	3HS:8HL:LoD	3HL:LoD	HS:2HL:LoD


Heal Max	13878	189541		221236		100638	102517

Cast Time	2.12	18.79		22.06		7.63	6.79

Max HPS		6544	10089		10031		13182	15106


BeaconHPS	2181	3433		n/a		6990	7047

RaidHPS		4363	6656		n/a		6192	8060


Mana		2108	18269		22485		6324	6090

HPM Max		6.58	10.37		9.84		15.91	16.83


		Beacon	Beacon		Beacon		Tower	Tower

		DL	3HS:6DL:LoD	3HS:8DL:LoD	3DL:LoD	HS:2DL:LoD


Heal Max	37025	332362		406411		146932	133379

Cast Time	2.12	18.79		22.06		7.63	6.79

Max HPS		17458	17692		18427		19245	19654


BeaconHPS	5819	n/a		n/a		13053	11594

RaidHPS		11639	n/a		n/a		6192	8060


Mana		7027	47781		61834		21080	15927

HPM Max		5.27	6.96		6.57		6.97	8.37


Using similar stats I used to generate those, priests are expecting somewhere around 40,000+ HPS from PoH + CoH spam rotation. Given that I ignored PotI and don't have numbers for Holy Radiance, this is off, but by that much seems a strech. When I get more time I will do the FoL numbers, but my spreadsheet is an ungodly mess right now.

One interesting fact about HL v DL. Going from HL to Divine light, we gain 4,548 HPS at the cost of 7,243 mp5, which is going to destroy anything resembling a need for spirit. Using HL/LoD we can heal for over 100,000 for less then the cost of a Divine Light. Ofcourse a rotation with FoL would be better, but I will get to that some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using the figures above (~4.2K int, ~2.2K spirit), using 2 +spirit trinkets such as [iTEM]Core of Ripeness[/iTEM] and [iTEM]Figurine - Dream Owl[/iTEM] during mana tide will grant 45K mana every 3 minutes. Having 2 resto shamans makes that every 2 minutes and it's fully controllable - using a proc trinket such as [iTEM]Fall of Mortality[/iTEM] should also work nicely, though. A holy priest will get an extra 40% on top of that, or a whopping 63K.

This seems to pose serious balance issues especially for 10 man where a lack of a MT can dramatically alter the mana balance.

edit: linked to the wrong item, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You cannot assume AT, even more so now that Tauren can be paladins. AT is amazingly powerful for mana regen, and it is Maxmana based so it makes Int look better. You also have the mana regen part wrong, should be:

(0.005 + 5 * Spirit * Sqrt(Int) * 0.003345) * 0.5 = Mp5 in combat from spirit.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Here finally the hopefully correct calculation which should leave no doubt on what to gem for.

Bloodelves profit even more from Intellect due to Arcane Torrent.


I'm using [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/profile=21783517"]this equipment[/URL] as a basis.



BaseMana = 23422 (@ 85)

INT = 4227

SPI = 2174


MaxMana = BaseMana + 20 + 15 * (INT - 20) = 86547

MP5 = 0.0025 + 5 * SPI *  sqrt(INT) * 0.003345 * 0.5 = 1181.99

TotalMana = MaxMana + 60 * MP5 + Mana(DivinePlea) + Mana(Replenishment)


Mana(DivinePlea) = MaxMana * 0.15 * 2 = 25964

Mana(Replenishment) = MaxMana * 0.001 * 300 = 25964


-> TotalMana = 209394


The above is assuming a five minute fight and the usage of DP two times.


Now I'm assuming you're using 10 gems independant of socket bonuses etc.


We choose between 10 * 40 Int or 10 * 40 Spirit:


[B]SPIRIT[/B]

INT = 4227

SPI = 2574


-> MP5 = 1399.46

-> TotalMana = 222443

-> ManaGain = 13049  ≈ 6.23%


[B]INTELLECT[/B]

INT = 4647

SPI = 2174


-> MP5 = 1239.32

-> MaxMana = 92847

-> Mana(DivinePlea) = MaxMana * 0.15 * 2 = 27854

-> Mana(Replenishment) = MaxMana * 0.001 * 300 = 27854


-> TotalMana = 222914

-> ManaGain = 13520  ≈ 6.46%


Additionally, you gain 420 spell power (about 10% gain) and 0.65% crit chance from Intellect.

@ Fallenangel: Do you mean [iTEM]Figurine - Dream Owl[/iTEM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those spirit trinkets can be assumed to share a 30 cooldown. Also, [iTEM]Darkmoon Card: Tsunami[/iTEM] is better unless you align the Use on the Core up with every other mana tide, at which it slightly pulls ahead. Logging out ate my post with math, but the numbers were basically:

DMC

No MT: 400 Avg spirit

With MT 426 Avg spirit

Core

No MT: 321 Avg spirit

With MT: 481 Avg spirit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The average spirit you gain from Core if you use it every 3 minutes is 775. Assuming a 15s overlap with MT, it counts as (5*1926 + 15*1926*4.5) / 180 = 775.

DCT, assuming 100% uptime, has an average spirit value of (17*400*4.5 + 163*400) / 180 = 532.

Not sure how you derived a value of 426 for DCT?

As for shared cooldown that is a concern. wowhead doesn't list any shared CDs for Core which is suspicious. Combining DCT and Core or using a proc trinket like FoM gets around that issue.

MT is not far behind other mana CDs without any spirit trinkets and for a single target. Now factor in the spirit trinkets and affecting up to 5 targets, and you get a balance problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The average spirit you gain from Core if you use it every 3 minutes is 775. Assuming a 15s overlap with MT, it counts as (5*1926 + 15*1926*4.5) / 180 = 775.

DCT, assuming 100% uptime, has an average spirit value of (17*400*4.5 + 163*400) / 180 = 532.

Not sure how you derived a value of 426 for DCT?

As for shared cooldown that is a concern. wowhead doesn't list any shared CDs for Core which is suspicious. Combining DCT and Core or using a proc trinket like FoM gets around that issue.

MT is not far behind other mana CDs without any spirit trinkets and for a single target. Now factor in the spirit trinkets and affecting up to 5 targets, and you get a balance problem.

I assumed MT was 350% of X instead of X + 350%. I had factored both as I wasn't sure, but that was in the post that didn't make it. Mana tide is also only 12s as far as I know. I forgot about waiting for each MT, which does produce a boost in the average spirit, I also forgot the second mana tide for the DMC, but thats what I get for doing too many things at once.

For 12s mana tide, (8*1926 + 12*1926*4.5)/180 = 663, vs (168*400 + 12*400*4.5)/180 = 493

DMC: 400 | 493 spirit

Core: 321 | 663 spirit

On the power of Mana Tide, lets consider the boost for Core, of ~342 spirit. At 6000 Int and 3000 Spirit, this mana tide boosted the Mp5 from just the trinket by ~221.5 Mp5. However, this is 1926 spirit getting boosted by MT, when we only have 3000 spirit to start with (rough 85 numbers). This is more of a case of the trinket giving a large boost to a stat we won't be stacking. However, there are many powerful trinkets it will have to contend with, and they will not require a resto shaman. The 663 avg spirit from Core with MT gives around 430 Mp5 at that gear level. Tyrande's Favorite Doll is 350 Mp5 at all gear levels and does not need MT.

MT has always been powerful, Wrath's Divine Plea was pretty much matched in total mana return by Wrath's MTT, but the current/cata MT is kind of wonky. For example poping it gives moonkins 4.5x more Hit rating >.>

Edit again: Bah I even read that talent like 10 times since 4.0 came out and never tied it to the MTT... Math is off in this post by a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tide can be talented to last 16.8s - an odd figure, for sure, as it's a 40% boost from the base 12s. The general purpose resto shaman spec can accommodate this talent, so the 15s overlap between the spirit procs and MT is not the actual best case scenario.

As a simple rule of thumb, having a tide is the same as a 30% boost to spirit. This is true for static spirit on gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's not forget

[item]64645[/item] [(discovered via Archeology.)

I see this leaning towards a dps then a healer.

and

[item]59354[/item]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another possibility to stack spirit with MT is the T11 4 set bonus.

(4) Set: Whenever your Holy Radiance spell is active, you gain 1620 Spirit.

This is an average Spirit gain of 1620*10/30=540 spirit.

(if used on CD)

with only one MT (assuming you can use HR on cd, which is quite improbable as it is one of the strongest AE healing effects...) you could increase to an average spirit of ((1620*10*4,5)+(1620*50))/180=855 spirit

As the effect of HR lasts only 10s there should be no problem to overlap with MT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.