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[Elemental] Cataclysm changes collected (updated: 10/08/22)

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Ancestral Swiftness is good, but I doubt it could be called a must-have. I would rather say that it is the combination of Elemental Weapons + Ancestral Swiftness that wins in comparison to what further points in Elemental or Restoration would offer.

Now, if Ancestral Swiftness is removed then it would actually open up for slightly more combinations. You mention 37/2/2, while personally I would say that 34/2/5 looks quite tempting. If we don't have any problems with mana, then you would maximize your survivability through getting Elemental Warding, Ancestral Resolve and Spark of Life.

It's somewhat hard to quantify, but a movement speed increase along the lines of Ancestral Swiftness is definitely a DPS increase when put in the context of current fight mechanics (and presumably fight mechanics in Cataclysm). Any amount of time spent moving is time not DPSing, and while 15% increased speed doesn't seem like much for a single moment of movement, it adds up over the course of a fight or an instance.

Given our issues with movement and DPS, I hope it returns (or becomes baseline).

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Just thought to post this, they changed the 6th tier talent into Feedback. 3 points will get you 3 seconds knocked off of elemental mastery after every lightning bolt or chain lightning.

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# Feedback - Your Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning spells reduce the remaining cooldown on your Elemental Mastery talent by 1/2/3 sec.(Tier 6) This replacing Shamanism (now that is base)

# Elemental Mastery - No longer shares a cooldown with Nature's Swiftness. When activated, your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning or Lava Burst spell becomes an instant cast spell. In addition, your Fire, Frost, and Nature damage is increased by 15% and you gain 20% spell haste for 15 sec.

This is similar to the Tier 10 bonus, so helps the rotation becomes more interesting.

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Has anyone looked into the way we're supposed to do AoE dmg in Cataclysm?

If you take into account that Earthquake can only be channeled for 10seconds, while it has a 15second cooldown, we'll have a 5second window to fill with other spells.

Does this mean we'll still be using Magma Totem and Fire Nova? Or is there still something to come that will encourage us into Chain Lightnings and (FS) Lava Bursts? The final option is that a glyph will be realsed to remove the CD (and quite possibly knockdown) of Earthquake.

I'm worried that we'll still be expected to be using Magma Totem. As this would mean that in alot of cases the 35yd range on Earthquake would be pointless. Since we'll need to go drop Magma totem (+ Fire nova) before casting our Earthquake.

Edit: Personally I feel that Blizzard has chosen a very wierd moment to add Earthquake. The community has nagged about it since Vanilla and at the point where we least need it (thanks to the changes to Magma Totem and Fire Nova) its suddenly thrown in our lap. I would've been much happier with a new spell being added to our rotation (or new spell to be used while moving).

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Basically as long as we can use Magma Totem, we're going to have to be balanced relative to other casters assuming we do use it.

Since it ticks passively while we do whatever else, and we have some filler time between Earthquakes anyway, the optimal AoE stat (for many targets that aren't going to die inside of 1 earthquake anyway) is going to be to ghost wolf in, drop Magma, Earthquake, then during those 5 sec before the next earthquake, fill in with Fire Nova, chain lightning, etc.

For 2-3 targets, it seems the ideal will just to do normal single-target rotations, but also hit CL on cooldown. AoE (for all classes) is becoming prohibitively expensive, and the damage has been cut drastically relative to what we see on live. So it's likely they want you to CC things and single-target much more often, rather than AoE being the optimal strategy for 3+ targets, like it all too often is now.

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I would've been much happier with a new spell being added to our rotation (or new spell to be used while moving).

You mean, something like Unleash Elements? :D

Anyway, I'd consider Earthquake as our counterpart to Blizzard and Magma Totem + Fire Nova as our counterpart to Flamestrike, thus ideally used together for maximum damage output. I agree with MightRecruitment above, though - as long as we can use Magma Totem, we'll be balanced around it. This means that the two issues related to our AoE will be the fact that Magma is melee (we need a way to put it down at range) and the fact that Improved Fire Nova shortens cooldown by too little to actually influence the amount of Fire Novas in our rotation. Alternatively, Blizzard could look at Hot Streak example for solution (read: Earthquake talent could shut down our ability to cast Magma Totem; that way we couldn't use both AoEs at once, allowing devs to properly balance Earthquake).

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You mean, something like Unleash Elements? :D

Anyway, I'd consider Earthquake as our counterpart to Blizzard and Magma Totem + Fire Nova as our counterpart to Flamestrike, thus ideally used together for maximum damage output. I agree with MightRecruitment above, though - as long as we can use Magma Totem, we'll be balanced around it. This means that the two issues related to our AoE will be the fact that Magma is melee (we need a way to put it down at range) and the fact that Improved Fire Nova shortens cooldown by too little to actually influence the amount of Fire Novas in our rotation. Alternatively, Blizzard could look at Hot Streak example for solution (read: Earthquake talent could shut down our ability to cast Magma Totem; that way we couldn't use both AoEs at once, allowing devs to properly balance Earthquake).

I was under the impression that Earthquake is balanced more around its ability to interrupt/knockdown than our ability to cast a magma totem before channeling? To use your analogy is Blizzard balanced around Flamestrike?

Not being in beta I can't comment on the current state of abilities and balance, but as things stand I can see small pack AE 3-4 mobs (if no cc needed) being Magma, Chain Lightning and Fire Nova where the Improved Fire Nova talent can be useful.

Large packs Magma and channeled Earthquake which effectively locks us from using Fire Nova in it's improved state. They have afterall put in AE dmg limits?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Improved Fire Nova and Call of Flame somehow getting combined at some point and if they did i'd suggest a single point talent to augment Earthquake that placed a magma totem in the centre of the channeled target area. That would mean we had a high dmg targeted channeled ae with no movement needed.

Hmm, thinking about it a glyph to augment Earthquake would be preferable, as that would be easier to alter per encounter as less other fire totem conflicts.

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The tooltip on Earthquake says it has a daze effect now instead of knock-down. Is this correct?

And as a side note to that, it takes AE kiting to new heights along with Earth binding totem.

Not to mention AE grinding together with magma totem and impGhostwolf

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Is it just a bug or Eye of the Storm no more lower casting time on Lava Burst?

//EDIT: Thanks Jessamy for correcting me ^^

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Wont Lava Surge and Feedback present the same problem that the original 2p and 4pT10 set bonuses did? One encourages more LB/CL while the other encourages more LvB.

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I don't think that that will be a huge concern. It keeps the talent tree buffing LvB so it's a spell you want to cast, while Feedback allows our only selfish buff a chance to be better without lowering the cooldown to match other classes. It makes the priority system evolve over a period of gearing, and barring it fully evolving from a FS -> LvB -> LB till LvB comes up, it makes it a bit more of a dynamic system for the LB's in between the LvB's.

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Is it just a bug or Eye of the Storm no more lower casting time on Lava Burst?

//EDIT: Thanks Jessamy for correcting me ^^

This post is correct. Just noticed that LvB no longer has any cast time reduction from talents or passives in the current beta build, putting its effective cast time at 2 seconds, up from 1.5.

Base damage was increased slightly, from 1323-1685 on live to 1385-1748 on the current beta build (although this number could be fudged slightly, as gear and talents seem to be affecting the damage value shown, and I got the beta damage value with no gear, but fully talented).

More information as I do some testing, but this seems a pretty important change if it's intentional.

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I've got a question regarding Unleash Weapon and Flameshock:

If you use UW (Flametongue ofc) and cast a Flameshock, does only the initial damage or the initial and the periodic damage benefit from UW-effect?

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I've got a question regarding Unleash Weapon and Flameshock:

If you use UW (Flametongue ofc) and cast a Flameshock, does only the initial damage or the initial and the periodic damage benefit from UW-effect?

Currently it only affects the direct damage portion of the spell, not the DoT, which means Unleash Elements should be used exclusively for LvB.

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I got some ideas to solve the haste and scaling issues for elemental shaman.

It would be done through changing the way lava fows and lava surge work.

For lava surge the change is easy: give each thick of flame shock a 100% chance to reduce lava burst CD by a fixed amount of time.

For lava flows i would change it to work this way: "Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Lava Burst spell by a percentage equal to you spell crit %, and when your Flame Shock is dispelled your spell casting speed is increased by 30% for 6 sec.".

What this will give to elemental shaman?

Better scaling through haste, cause it will give the chance to cast more lava burst (as it is with the current implementation) but without random procs. I think 1 sec for each thick of FS could be a good amount.

Also "double lava burst" in pvp could make someone cry for nerf, just as it was back i vanilla for "double wf procs" with the current system.

Better scaling through crit, since it would affect lava burst damage.

Potential issues:

If the amount of haste goes "out of control" as in WotlK the rotation could end up being too much boring. Anyways assuming blizzard will avoid the same mistakes, is should not happen in cataclysm.

For pvp dispelling FS would gimp elemental shaman more than now, but having a 30% haste in cataclsym should be even more powerful than now because of less haste spread through talents and gear.

It's worth to note that both these problems exist with the current cataclysm implementation.

Lava burst could do more burst than now only when we will reach an amount of crit > 24%.

While this is true we have to keep in mind that all increases in % to crits are additive(just like many increases in this game) so the overall increase in damage is at best half effective as one could think(if you go from 200% to 250% you increase your damage output by 25%) and again, since crit should be kept at lower levels this expansion, this would not be really a problem.

I left this game a couple months ago, but it looks like i can't leave the "theorycrafting world of warcraft" XD

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Sorry I can't find the blue post to refer to but this is whats currently on mmo:

Elemental

  • Totemic Wrath is now a Tier 4 talent, down from Tier 5.

  • Unrelenting Storm is gone.

  • Fulmination (Tier 5) *New* - When you have more than 3 Lightning Shield charges active, your Earth Shock spell will consume any surplus charges, instantly dealing their total damage to the enemy target.

  • Rolling Thunder (Tier 4) *New* - When you deal damage with Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning while your Lightning Shield ability is active, you have a 30/60% chance to recover 1% of your mana and to generate an additional Lightning Shield charge, up to a maximum of 0/9 charges.

Assuming you are at 9 charges and use earth shock, I wonder how much each off these 6 consumed lightning shield charges will grant to the shock. Since earth shock does not benefit from haste it would add an element that only benefits from sp and crit.

I guess using earth shock whenever charges are filled up will become part of our rotation. Together with the rng of lava surge and the rng of the orb generation our rotation will become purely priority based.

I wonder if the lightning overload procs of lb and cl will also generate orbs. I think they should.

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Sorry i can´t find the blue post to refer to but this is whats currently on mmo:

Elemental

  • Totemic Wrath is now a Tier 4 talent, down from Tier 5.

  • Unrelenting Storm is gone.

  • Fulmination (Tier 5) *New* - When you have more than 3 Lightning Shield charges active, your Earth Shock spell will consume any surplus charges, instantly dealing their total damage to the enemy target.

  • Rolling Thunder (Tier 4) *New* - When you deal damage with Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning while your Lightning Shield ability is active, you have a 30/60% chance to recover 1% of your mana and to generate an additional Lightning Shield charge, up to a maximum of 0/9 charges.

Assuming you are at 9 charges and use earthshock i wonder how much each off these 6 consumed lightning shield charges will grant to the shock.

I guess using earthshock whenever charges are filled up will become part of our rotation.

Together with the rng of lavasurge and the rng of the orb generation our rotation will become purely priority based.

Since earthshock does not benefit from haste it would add an element that only benefits from sp and crit.

While haste does not affect earthshock directly, it still would indirectly affect its damage by charging up shield faster.

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While haste does not affect earthshock directly, it still would indirectly affect its damage by charging up shield faster.

Haste affects Earth Shock in two subtle fashions.

As you have observed, LS will charge faster with a shaman hurling more bolts in a given period of time. Additionally, being an instant cast, the benefit of haste is applied to the global cooldown.

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From PvE point of view, the Beta build 12803 locks Elemental firmly into a 34/7/0-build. There is 1 point that is slightly free. You can freely place it in a tier 1-3 talent, but it must be placed and it must be in the Elemental tree. If we should have more flexibility then the number of dps-increasing talents have to be reduced.

The problem, as I see it, is that most talents from tier 3 to tier 7 are good old fun talents that change our spell rotation and make it more interactive. I for one don't want them to remove any of these talents. However, the same good old fun talents are also the ones that eat so many talent points that we have only 7 points left to place outside the Elemental tree. If we wish to have flexibility, then logically some of the fun talents need to be changed, otherwise the only flexibility we will have is in tier 1-3 when we try to go through the tier 3 bottleneck.

To walk out on thin ice and throw out a solution, then one possibility is to remove Storm, Earth and Fire. The 60% damage increase to Flame Shock could easily be baked into Lava Flows. The rooting effect of Earthbind Totem is one of the stronger parts of the Storm, Earth and Fire talent. It could probably manage to be its very own talent.

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Just wanted to share some interesting information about what i tested today about Fulmination.

fulm.png

As you can see, as soon as i used Earth Shock, it did it's damage to the target and then the Fulmination hit me.

I know this is a bug, so i am not completely sure if the damage will stay the same. If the damage does stay the same, it could be a force to be reckoned with. How i tested this was went to a target dummy, dropped all my totems and cast until i had 9 stacks of lightning shield. I had 10 stacks of Mauradins Spyglass up also. The only buff that i was not able to have up was the ICC exalted ring buff. 9k non crits were hitting me, 10 on occasion, but when i had 400 extra spell power from the ring buff, the non crit damage went up to 12k damage to me from Fulmination.

I can give you more stats, spell power and tests when i get back tonight, but i thought i would share this with you.

Another thing people were discussing on the beta forums is the validity of us having to keep lighting shield up. There are almost 0 PVP uses for this, as people will target the Elemental Shamans first, therefore voiding us ever getting 9 stacks of lighting shield.

*Edit* typos.

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So with the new Fulmination/Rolling Thunder (RT) addition, I did some testing. For the purposes of the testing I didn't have Flametongue Weapon (FT) on or use Unleash Elements (UE). I basically just used a Flame Shock (FS) -> Lighting Shield (LS) x9 Earth Shock (ES) -> Lava Burst (LvB) -> Lighting Bolt (LB) priority. I also removed my Ashen Band of Endless Destruction, Dislodged Foreign Object and Muradin's Spyglass so as to not incur any deviations from RNG buffs.

First off, I was kind of worried about how this would affect our mana even though it didn't seem like it should, I tested a normal WotLK rotation with Water Shield (WS) against the above priority system, obviously with LS, and had nearly the same time until my mana pool was depleted. For the sake of the test I healed myself twice with Greater Healing Wave since Fulmination is hitting me and not the dummy in both tests for fairness. There was like a 3 second difference, so pretty inconsequential.

Since Fulmination was hitting me and not the dummy (I'm assuming this is a bug, if not...worst talent ever!) I added the ES and Fulmination damage for each (21 in my tests) hit. Over the course of testing I had 371 LB's and 99 LvB's. Note: this data includes both my LS and WS tests. Obviously, how many times you get to hit a full RT/Fulmination charge is going to be relatively RNG.

ES + Fulmination average: 10,982

LvB: 9893,13

LB: 5410.42

I was thinking about it and initially thought that they might tune the Fulmination damage down, but then reconsidered. We're going to hit full RT/Fulmination ES's less than LvB, so it would make sense that it could hit harder, although it is an instant cast and this is beta so things are prone to change.

In any event, it was annoying to keep track of with the default interface, but with addons helping you track things, it seems like it could be really fun. It also gives us a spell to use as we move if Spiritealker's Grace isn't up and we're on the move. We'd also be saving GCD by not refreshing WS during a fight since RT refreshes LS's time. The only other issue I ran into was clipping FS. This probably won't be such an issue when we can actually see the time left on our FS debuffs, but in these tests a few times FS fell off because I hit ES and the shared CD didn't let me get it back up in time. That'll be a risk, but assuming you can tell if a number is greater or less than five (5), you should be ok.

Link to the spreadsheet containing raw logs.

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It will be quite tricky in a few occasion when a full 9 LS stack earthshock will have priority over a lava surge lvb proc depending how the damage numbers finalise.

For PvP fulminating power would be a nice finishing move where you save the 9 stack of LS when a target is like below 20-15% and a heavy hitting instant is needed - might have its use in PvP.

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It will seldom, if ever, get to 9 in an any match that matters. Aside from being dispellable, you are almost always going to be getting peppered with damage that will reduce the number of charges you have. While they'll still be taking damage from those discharges, it won't be in a large burst. It wouldn't surprise me if we find ourselves unable to break even with the rate at which it discharges vs. charges in a PVP, or even in some PVE environments.

For those that are able to test it, have you been able to generate LS charges on consecutive Lightning Bolts? I'm wondering if it has any ICD similar to the Reign of Misery/Lightning Capacitor?

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For our priority it would be interesting how many charges LS needs for earth shock to take precedence to casting lvb because at say 7 charges of LS ES does higher damage than lvb. In a scenario where the 6th LS orb just procced and we know that the 7th can not proc until ICD is over we would cast lvb and wait for the 7th LS orb to proc.

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