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Carnathagia

Cataclysm Healing Priest Theorycrafting

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One discipline smite priest is equal to a full healer (barring heavy raid healing encounters) and likely to be 15-20% of a dpser in the best case scenario. You won't be chain smiting the entire encounter, not anywhere close to that. Smite replaces your generic heal spell, gives controllable extra throughput and mana regen from archangel, and a lower penance cooldown through Train of Thought. The primary drawback is that you cannot control the target of your atonement heal.

The largest problem will be convincing the general public that an atonement-specced discipline priest is just a healer that adds a trivial amount of extra DPS.

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The primary drawback is that you cannot control the target of your atonement heal.

I never thought of this as a drawback for atonement, but rather a feature. It's supposed to heal the lowest health target (do we know if it's %health or abosulte health?), which still won't always be the optimum target for a heal, but is way better then a random target, and since the target is chosen at the end of the cast as opposed to the begining (like a regular heal) it's definitely possible that the target will be someone who took damage after the begining of the cast and would be a better target then whoever I would've picked out to cast a regular heal on, and could very easily be the optimum target given the timing.

Atonement smite healing is probably pretty worthless when high single target healing is needed, but could be the optimum strategy when there is consistent raid wide damage - even ignoring the DPS increase. Since the heals should always be going to good (if not always best targets) where as with prayer of healing there's always the chance for a misclick, or a change of priorities during the cast.

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The largest problem will be convincing the general public that an atonement-specced discipline priest is just a healer that adds a trivial amount of extra DPS.

I think you are a bit too early with your answer.

The thing is, if it really turns out to be a trivial amount, then serious priests shouldn't use a dps spec. It's not a good idea to trade healing talents and more importantly control for something trivial.

The true answer is that currently nobody outside of Blizzard knows what kind of dps contribution a smite spec healer will usually have - because nobody has seen Cataclysm raid encounters. These plus healing composition will dictate how large your percentage of smites will be. In 10 man, for example, a 2 healer setup will - probably - see a lot less smite use than a 3 healer setup. It may also be that even in a 2 healer setup a smiter can have pretty high smite uptime if the raid is melee heavy. We just don't know these things - yet.

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I hope for the spec that atonement picks either the lowest percentage health target, or the highest absolute deficit health target, and not the lowest absolute health target. This would lead to a lot of useless heal to pets / topped melees, when the tank is wounded but not close to death.

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I think you are a bit too early with your answer.

The thing is, if it really turns out to be a trivial amount, then serious priests shouldn't use a dps spec. It's not a good idea to trade healing talents and more importantly control for something trivial.

The true answer is that currently nobody outside of Blizzard knows what kind of dps contribution a smite spec healer will usually have - because nobody has seen Cataclysm raid encounters. These plus healing composition will dictate how large your percentage of smites will be. In 10 man, for example, a 2 healer setup will - probably - see a lot less smite use than a 3 healer setup. It may also be that even in a 2 healer setup a smiter can have pretty high smite uptime if the raid is melee heavy. We just don't know these things - yet.

You do know that the discipline smite spec isn't a DPS spec, right? It's not in any way intended to be a DPS specilization. You're trading one set of healing talents for another set of healing talents, in order to heal in a different style/method. Control is given up for reduced cast time, increased mana regeneration, and potentially slightly greater throughput. Archangel and Power Infusion together allow you to have controlled throughput in high damage phases, or to take some burden off the other healers and allow them mana regen time.

The point is that if atonement healed INSTEAD of doing damage, it would still be a viable spec due to these factors. In fact, if the DPS became non-trivial it would quickly be changed in some way or you'd see atonement priests stacked endlessly.

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I hope for the spec that atonement picks either the lowest percentage health target, or the highest absolute deficit health target, and not the lowest absolute health target. This would lead to a lot of useless heal to pets / topped melees, when the tank is wounded but not close to death.

I would assume that they would use similar logic to other "low health" targeting abilities, such as a Shaman's Ancestral Awakening.

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You do know that the discipline smite spec isn't a DPS spec, right? It's not in any way intended to be a DPS specilization. You're trading one set of healing talents for another set of healing talents, in order to heal in a different style/method.

...

The point is that if atonement healed INSTEAD of doing damage, it would still be a viable spec due to these factors.

The atonement spec is the one PvE discipline dps spec, whether you use it for pure dps or for healing. There just aren't other talents in the disc tree that improve dps. Also, this wasn't the point I was making.

Regarding the second point: again, we still don't know that. It's just your assumption based on how you interpret today's beta numbers regarding raid encounters that nobody has seen. Even if you assume all numbers are final (which they aren't - there's still 2 months to go), it's not reasonable to make definitive statements regarding a full raid tier that we have no clue about.

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If you are going for a Disc Atonement+Evangelims+Archangel build, I recommend using this Smite macro:


#showtooltip Smite

/cast [@mouseovertarget, harm] [@mouseover, harm] [@targettarget, harm] [harm] Smite

It always ensures a successful cast, whether you are aiming at an enemy or a tank/melee, with your target, or mouseover.

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My wife plays a disc priest and was curious about the relative value of mastery vs. INT for the sole purpose of improving PW:Shield, and since I did not find anyone trying to work out the math here I tried to do it, it appears to be roughly:

MR = SP / 1.15 - 1329.407

IE your mastery marting must be as high as MR there for INT to be worth more in terms of increasing shield's absorb value than Mastery Rating will increase its absorb value - within the assumptions of for base values / talent boosts below.

BV = 3498 // Base Value

C = 0.418 // PW:S coefficientT

TB = 1.1 // Talent boost, not assuming twin disciplines.

MB = 1.20 + MP *0.025 // Mastery Boost

MP = <user value> // Mastery Points

SP = <user value> // Spell Power ~= intellect, as stacking int gives 1:1 spell power

( (BV + (SP * C) ) * TB ) * MB = final value

This is a function of 2 variables (SP and MP), seen more clearly when represented as:

( (3498 + (SP * 0.418) ) * 1.1 ) * (1.20 + MP * 0.025)

( 3847.8 + (SP * 0.4598) ) * (1.20 + (MP * 0.025) )

4617.36 + 3847.8 * (MP * 0.025) + (SP*0.55176) + (SP * 0.4598) * (MP * 0.025)

4617.36 + (96.196 * MP) + (SP*0.55176) + (SP*MP*0.011495)

Using calculus we find that:

df/dMP = 96.196 + SP*0.011495

df/dSP = 0.55176 + MP*0.011495

Taking a second derivative gives us a 0, so there is no 'acceleration' to either Mastery or Spell Power. The first derivatives prove the intuitive assumption that the value (for purposes of power word shield) of mastery scales based on the amount of spell power you have and that the value of spell power scales based on the amount of mastery you have.

You need 179.28 Rating to equal a point of mastery @ 85 (note that MP is in terms of points not rating). So MP = MR/179.28 gives:

value = 4617.36 + (96.196 * MR / 179.28) + (SP*0.55176) + (SP*MR/179.28*0.011495)

df/dMR = 0.5365… + SP*0.0000641175 = MRincrease

df/dSP = 0.55176 + MR*0.0000641175 = SPincrease

(SPincrease) * additionalINT * 1.15 // increase per point of int

(MRincrease) * additionalMR // increase per point of mastery

Set additional INT and MR to 1 (same stat cost) and set the two functions equal to each other to find out the proper values to have SP as valuable as MR

SPincrease * 1.15 = MRincrease

SPincrease = MRincrease / 1.15

0.55176 + MR * 0.0000641175 = 0.5365/1.15 + 0.0000641175/1.15 * SP

MR = SP / 1.15 - 1329.407

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I compared your formulas to those available on the PTR for level 80 and found some differences from your equations, as below:

(1) The coefficients given for Lightwell and Serenity seem to already have spiritual healing in them. To keep the formulas as written, the coefficients should be 0.308 for Lightwell and 0.525 for Serenity. It's likely that your base values are over by 15% as well, for the same reason (I was unable to confirm for level 85).

(2) Similarly, if you pull out Shield Discipline, the coefficient for PW:B should be 5 (this corresponds to the spellbook values).

(3) The coefficient for Aspire was 0.238 and the Aspire HOT was 0.075 per tick.

(4) I found the coefficient on Desperate Prayer to be 0.496, and not 0.318.

(5) Spiritual Healing should be removed from the equation for Penance since you can't have both!

Hope this is helpful. Please note again that the above observations were off Level 80 test realm. It's unlikely, but possible, that the coefficients change at level 85.

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I am curious if that has been addressed, and if so I am sorry, but it seems to me the advent of veiled shadows as a t1 talent indicates that it might become very useful for raiding (at least come Cata). Depending on how raiding works, I am envisioning something like say Yogg-Saron (p3 where priests fade the mobs to the tank) at which point I feel like the two pronged value of having a much quicker shadow fiend ALONG with a shorter fade duration makes it a better talent to take then say SoL. If this discussion is just about SoL and not comparing it to anything else then ignore this post.

I have a question in regards to the value of the damage and healing done by smites. Will the value of the healing + smites from 2 atonement priest be comparable with the value of the DPS and healing of one pure DPS and one pure healer?

I highly doubt it. From what I understand the intent is to allow priests to fulfill further the role of being everything. Instead of having a pure smite spec (as in BC) priests now have the option of doing some DPS to fill in lulls in healing. To make that a favorable outcome (as opposed to just sitting there getting mana back as was done in say Naxx 40) smite gives you some positive benefits (healing/Archangel).

Furthermore, I would say disc priests ARE a pure healer. Smite spec isnt and end all be all hybrid. You are smiting to heal with just a little bit more utility. The idea is that Recount staring isnt going to normalize who a good healer is. Its going to be a person who manages everything. So no more spamming CoH/Renew/ProM and sniping to beat out that resto druid on the meters (not that you would do that anyway, right? :))

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(1) The coefficients given for Lightwell and Serenity seem to already have spiritual healing in them.

...

(5) Spiritual Healing should be removed from the equation for Penance since you can't have both!

After retesting for level 80, Lightwell and Serenity (and also Desperate Prayer) do not update with Spiritual Healing the way every other spell does. But who is to say whether the additional 15% is 'baked-in' or if these spells simply do not benefit (intended or not). Pending further information, I'll say its baked in for Serenity and Lightwell, and leave it out of Desperate Prayer, which can be taken for a Discipline spec.

Spiritual Healing does in fact apply to Penance in-game, but since it is impossible to have both it's a non-issue. The same goes for the spreadsheet, Spiritual Healing will not affect Penance with a Discipline spec, though it is a part of the formula.

I'll add the other corrections in the next update.

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One discipline smite priest is equal to a full healer (barring heavy raid healing encounters) and likely to be 15-20% of a dpser in the best case scenario. You won't be chain smiting the entire encounter, not anywhere close to that. Smite replaces your generic heal spell, gives controllable extra throughput and mana regen from archangel, and a lower penance cooldown through Train of Thought. The primary drawback is that you cannot control the target of your atonement heal.

The largest problem will be convincing the general public that an atonement-specced discipline priest is just a healer that adds a trivial amount of extra DPS.

Actually when I played in the PTR and I played a lot of dungeons, atonement seemed to heal every target in range. I saw heals on all the melee with every smite I also tested it with another priest and my mage + water ely. When he smited the dummy both me and my ely were healed and when he came close he also received the heals. Not sure if this is a bug or if its still like this on live. I will do a dungeon and test it out.

If it does remain like that, it will be very OP, so I think it will be fixed.

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Currently, atonement does heal everyone in range generally. I was noticing this last night in 5 man heroics. Is this intended? I doubt it, because this makes smiting incredible hps.

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New Spreadsheet version, updated for level 80.

  • Level 80 spell data added.
  • Renew ticks can proc Divine Aegis.
  • Power Word: Shield has a 30% increase.
  • Lightwell updated: has a 25% increase, does not benefit from Spiritual Healing.
  • Serenity does not benefit from Spiritual Healing.
  • Desperate Prayer does not benefit from Spiritual Healing.
  • Critical chance from Intellect calculations corrected.
  • HPS and MPS calculations on Character page now reference time casting within a rotation instead of 60 seconds (more accurate).

Edit: Uploaded newer version.

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Currently, atonement does heal everyone in range generally. I was noticing this last night in 5 man heroics. Is this intended? I doubt it, because this makes smiting incredible hps.

This was fixed. Also, judging from Hegen's comment, it seems the fix (or fixes) aren't being applied evenly.

As of the time of this posting, it's very possible on your server you Atonement might not work AT ALL. (Other options seem to be, you have an Atonement which heals everyone in range, or you have an Atonement which works correctly).

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As of the time of this posting, it's very possible on your server you Atonement might not work AT ALL. (Other options seem to be, you have an Atonement which heals everyone in range, or you have an Atonement which works correctly).

From scanning EU priest forums (German and English), it seems this also has to do with whether a respective server already had a restart after patches were applied. A server restart after the last patch seems to fix Atonement to a) actually heal and b) just one target.

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Hi, I was looking through here to find the % haste needed to get to a 1 sec GCD under borrowed time. I realize disc lost 6% from spec, 10% from borrowed time, and 3% from extra raid buffs, but I was wondering if there were any concrete numbers out there.

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[*]Power Word: Shield has a 30% increase.

When did this change go in? I can't seem to find it among the many blue posts. Anyway, in order to avoid confusion, you might want to just change the base and coefficient for PW:S on the summary sheet. At 80, the new values are 4541 and 0.545.

Also, the Glyph of PW:S doesn't seem to be taking into account the 30% increase.

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Hi, I was looking through here to find the % haste needed to get to a 1 sec GCD under borrowed time. I realize disc lost 6% from spec, 10% from borrowed time, and 3% from extra raid buffs, but I was wondering if there were any concrete numbers out there.

The basic formula for haste contribution remains unchanged:

HastedCastTime = BaseCastTime/(1+HastePercent)

Adding haste talents and buffs, and isolating the haste percent that we wanna find out, we get:

HastePercent = BaseCastTime/HastedCastTime/(1+HasteEffect1)/(1+HasteEffect2)/(1+HasteEffect3)/... - 1

Disc Priest Haste Soft Cap in Cataclysm

Using the values:

HastedCastTime = 1

BaseCastTime = 1.5

And the following haste effects:

Borrowed Time = 0.14 (Nerfed from 25% to 14%)

Enlightment = 0 (Removed Talent)

Wrath of Air Totem or Moonkin Form or Shadowform = 0.05 (haste raid buffs are now standardized to 5% and don't stack)

Darkness = 0.03 (New Talent in Shadow Tree)

Assuming +5% Raid Buff Haste, and +14% Borrowed Time, and varying the Darkness talent, the result is:

[table]Disc Haste Soft Cap| Percent| Haste Rating at lvl80| Haste Rating at lvl85

With 3 Darkness| 21.66%| 711| 2774|

With 2 Darkness| 22.86%| 750| 2927|

With 1 Darkness| 24.07%| 790| 3083|

With 0 Darkness| 25.31%| 831| 3241|[/table]

And without the +5% raid buff:

[table]Disc Haste Soft Cap| Percent| Haste Rating at lvl80| Haste Rating at lvl85

With 3 Darkness| 27.75%| 910| 3554|

With 2 Darkness| 29.00%| 951| 3714|

With 1 Darkness| 30.28%| 993| 3877|

With 0 Darkness| 31.58%| 1036| 4044|[/table]

Our new soft cap is hard to get. I guess we'll have to stick with Darkness, and Haste gear will be meaningful.

Edit: Corrected the first haste rating, from 710 to 711. Thanks Vintoran!

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Our new soft cap is hard to get. I guess we'll have to stick with Darkness, and Haste gear will be meaningful.

After looking into this further, I want to modify my previous post.

Essentially, while Soul Wording lowers the CD of PW:S to 1s, you still have the GCD to deal with. Therefore, the benefits of haste are the same for PW:S as for other spells.

Mastery is the best stat for shield spam, but is only attainable right now through reforging.

From my estimates, each point in Master gives you around 0.04% increase in PW:S, each point in Haste (before soft cap) gives around 0.03%, and each point in Intellect gives around 0.01%.

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To calculate the value of a spell, the formula (BaseValue + Spellpower * Coefficient) * Modifiers is used.

An easier formula is BaseValue * (1 + spellpower / 8370) * Modifiers.

This doesn't require gathering coefficients.

The coefficients have been changed, and do not depends on casting time anymore.

Thus, what's the logic ?

For all healers (with a few exceptions on one or two spells), spellpower seems to have been changed into a "spellpower rating" system, meaning you need a certain amount to improve ALL your healing spells by 1%.

From what i've tested until now :

Priests need 83.7, no exception

Druids need 87.4, eclosion of lifebloom, retab and hot portion of tranquility do not follow this rule.

Shamans need 89, with the exception of the life totem.

Paladins need 91.2, with the (important) exception of Flash of light.

edit 1

And Intelligence gives 0.276278 crit rating. Conversion seems to be the same for lvl 80 and lvl 85. (166.16 -> 648.91 = 3,9053 factor, 45.906 -> 179.28 = 3,9053 factor.)

edit 2

For lvl 85, priests will need 93.455 spell "rating" to improve base heals by 1%.

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Formula for Mastery can be alternatively expressed as:

Mastery_{base}=8

Mastery_{gained}=Mastery_{gear}/Mastery_{levelCoef}

Mastery_{total}=Mastery_{base}+Mastery_{gained}

which is easier to use for consistent calculation of its effect. (e.g. Discipline build shield absorb values is always increased by Raw_value * Mastery_total)

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If you have the spreadsheet version from 10/14, there is an error in the Divine Aegis variable on the Formula tab.

Cell C84 should be changed from: =Divine_Aegis*0.1*Shield_Discipline_Bonus

to: =Divine_Aegis*0.1*(1+Shield_Discipline_Bonus)

The next update will have this corrected. Thank you Sytax.

An easier formula is BaseValue * (1 + spellpower / 8370) * Modifiers.

This doesn't require gathering coefficients.

For all healers (with a few exceptions on one or two spells), spellpower seems to have been changed into a "spellpower rating" system, meaning you need a certain amount to improve ALL your healing spells by 1%.

I have not had any success with this formula for evaluating correct healing values.

Comparing the numbers at level 80 for 3333 spellpower:

[TABLE]Spell| Coefficient | Rating

Heal| 3347 | 3272

Flash Heal | 6693 | 6544

Greater Heal | 8925 | 8723

Binding Heal | 4292 | 4128[/TABLE]

Can anyone lend validity to this statement?

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IF I look at your own values (first post)

Spell - Base - coef

Shield 3498 0.418

Renew* 1096 0.131

Prayer of Mending* 2661 0.318

Divine Hymn* 3590 0.429

Lightwell* 2576 0.308

Divide the base by 100 and then by the coef, you obtain

83.68

83.66

83.67

83.68

83.63

And this with you own values.

You can easily find that

Base + coef x spell

=

Base x (1 + coef/Base x spell)

And when you have coef / base (amount) spell, then your heal is doubled (100% gain).

1/100 of this gain is 1%.

edit :

the bigger the base heal is, the more precise the coefficient is.

the more spell you may attain to evalue the coefficient, the more precise the coefficient is.

The coefficient you listed are maybe not precise enough, because I suspect coef / Base should seriously be a constant.

(and my 83.7 is not precise either, I do not have tools to be enough accurate).

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