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Thazzdingo

Cataclysm Mage Resources

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Just a quick fix. You should change the meta socket information to reflect the new changes to the gem requirements for the Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond and the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond. Yes, even the Wotlk version now requires more blues then reds, at least that's what Wowhead displays.

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Just a quick fix. You should change the meta socket information to reflect the new changes to the gem requirements for the Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond and the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond. Yes, even the Wotlk version now requires more blues then reds, at least that's what Wowhead displays.

I just checked on both Live and Wowhead and both of them are telling me that the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond still only requires 2 blue gems.

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I just checked on both Live and Wowhead and both of them are telling me that the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond still only requires 2 blue gems.

Chaotic Skyflare and even Chaotic Skyfire diamonds now have the 'Requires more Blue gems than Blue gems' requirement.

On a side note, when you check wowhead, make sure you check cata.wowhead.com.

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The "Water Elemental scaling" table needs a minor update. The WE now crits for 200% damage. Given the new Meta-requirements, you might need to include a selection of Green gems into the Gem Matrix. Getting the new meta to activate can require a little more juggling.

Also for the sake of completeness, the ilvl loot table could be updated with some extra lines:

- ilvl 359 (Raids)

- ilvl 372 (Heroics Raids)

- ilvl 379 (Sinestra)

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The new meta gem requirements will just change how you gear yourself, as in finding items under budgeted and lacking in hit stats and gemming blue hit gems to get the meta + hit cap.

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[Edit]: Apparently, I misread the new meta gems requirements. The previous post is now outdated. I'll let it remain in spoiler tag, if anyone wants to follow the old thought for their own information.

The new meta gem requirements will just change how you gear yourself, as in finding items under budgeted and lacking in hit stats and gemming blue hit gems to get the meta + hit cap.

Unless I'm missing somthing, I don't see that happen for a while. Intellect is our strongest stat until 10k SP, which we won't achieve in the first raid tier. When we get there, we have 1 hit = 1 int, and hit is limited. It may also change, if they change the rating/1%hit for later tier (or it may no change if they just increase the 17% miss chance). The other 3 ratings are significantly below the value of hit rating, as given below.

Since Intellect is determined by item level (all items of one slot and level with the same amout of sockets have the same int/str/agi) and hit has a cap, the optimal gearing is as follows:

1) Get the gear with the highest item level. Exceptions only if the ratings are of a bad type (crit for soft-capped frost).

2) Gear should likely have sockets (uncertain on budget of sockets).

3) Trinket should have intellect. A 300 Int trinket adds 300 int, while a 300 hit trinket means you reforge your sets and you end up with 300 mastery/crit/haste, which is a lot worse. Good proc can turn the tables however.

4) Try to reach the hit cap by reforging. Your gemming with the values below then lead to intellect-spam, exceptions being only extremely good socket bonuses which are not just yellow/blue compination.

5) Get the remaining int+hit gems to acitivate the meta gem, most likely in (red+)blue sockets.

You'll definitely not want gear with low hit to focus on hit gems. And I'm not sure what you mean with under budgeted gear either. Correct me if I'm wrong or missing something.

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5) Get the remaining int+hit gems to acitivate the meta gem, most likely in (red+)blue sockets.

You actually need pure blue gems to activate the meta, purples won't do it

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Green gems would satisfy the blue gem requirement while not adding the the red gem count.

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The Chaotic meta gem now requires more blue than red gems. Ouch. That's actually enough to make the Ember meta more desirable in many situations. If you want to use a Chaotic meta, you should gem one green in a yellow socket, then pairs of green/red gems in yellow/red sockets (pick those yellow sockets with the best bonuses first) and then fill the rest with purple gems. The gem parts being red = int, blue = hit, yellow = best of crit/haste/mastery. The details, break points and reasons are listed in detail in this post.

Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft - more blue than red.

Bracing Shadowspirit Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft - at least 1 blue, 1 yellow.

Ember Shadowspirit Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft - at least 2 yellow.

Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft - at least 2 yellow.

  • The run speed meta is not good, since it has mastery and you can gain run speed on your feet at a loss of 15 mastery. 54 intellect easily beats 54+15 mastery and similar combinations of ratings.
  • The intellect meta gems can be activated by intellect spam and 2 adjustments. The current gear allows that while even gaining DPS from socket bonuses.
  • The Chaotic diamond is painful to activate and requires some planning, but it's not too bad. Assume you have R red, Y yellow, B blue sockets on your gear.
    Fill Y yellow sockets with green gems, Y-1 red sockets with red gems and the remaining sockets with purple gems. This is the maximum you can get, since "rating>intellect" is an implicit constraint (green + red = 2*purple in that regard). Now, the above process fails if you have at least 2 more yellow than red sockets (R<Y-1, R<=Y-2). Call D=Y-1-R the amount of yellow sockets that cannot be paired up with reds. You can fill them with purple gems, or fill them pairwise with orange+green gems, trading 20 int for 20 rating + 1-2 socket bonuses. As those socket bonuses will be weak since we fill sockets with strong bonuses first (green/red combo), those remaining sockets are likely not worth it.

So, let's look at what gear is available to mages right now: Items - World of Warcraft

4/5 T11, non-set Headpiece and the rest of the good gear will give us 4 red, 4 yellow, 2 blue sockets.

[TABLE]Meta|Gems|Bonuses|Total:|Intellect|Rating|

Ember Shadowspirit Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft|Red-; Red/Purple+; Red+; Red-; Purple+; Orange/Red+; Red+; Red-|70 intellect, 20 haste||464|80|40 hit, 20 haste, 20 choice

Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft|Green+; Red/Purple+; Red+; Green+; Purple+; Green/Red+; Purple+; Green+|80 intellect, 10 mastery, 40 haste||260|324|140 hit, 10 mastery, 40 haste, 54 crit, 80 choice

[/TABLE]

(Gems are listed in the order in which they appear in the link. +/- indicate getting/losing the set bonus. Also, the +20 haste belt bonus for the chaotic meta is likely too high.)

So, let's simplify this a bit. With Lhivera's numbers, 3 rating = 1 int (for haste/mastery, and hit can be traded after the cap. Our combinations then become "464 int + 80/3 int + 2% max. mana" and "260 int + 324/3 int + 3% crit damage", with the the crit damage now being a flat 1.03 multiplier for us (we have a X1.33 crit damage miltiplier instead of our old x2 crit bonus) and 120 intellect (the difference) being a 2% damage increase by SP/Crit alone. The Chaotic 3% can only be a damage increase if 2/3 of your damage is crit damage.

Not that this is at your current gear levels with the current amount of gems. When our gear levels increase, the value of ratings will likely increase (not as much as I initially thought though, since intellect and rating levels on gear are mostly the same), but the amount of gems will likely increase as well, which increases the loss from gemming.

  • Arcane at 33% crit has 50% crit damage, 50% noncrit damage. So the Chaotic meta part adds 1.5% damage and should not be used. The Ember meta gem adds more damage through intellect alone, and grants extra mana through intellect and the 2% max mana bonus which synergises with burn cycles and Mana Adept as well.
  • Frost is a little tougher. About 50% of the damage are DF/IL crits. The remaining 50% are FrB/FFB/FO, half of their damage being crits at 33% crit (soft cap target). So we have 75% crit damage and the Chaotic meta adds 0.75*3% = 2.25% damage, while the Ember meta adds 2% damage. This should put the Chaotic slightly above the Ember diamond since mana does not seem to be a concern.
  • Fire has a crit multiplier of ~3 with Ignite/Flashburn. Assuming 40% crit, about 2/3 of the damage is crit, so the Chaotic diamond adds 2% damage, just like the Ember diamond by SP/Crit alone. There is some more benefit from the extra mana through intellect and the additional 2% max mana since you are limited by mana/required to Scorch.
  • Since the given numbers are all estimates, we cannot make any reliable predictions yet. Arcane will probably err towards Ember, Frost possibly towards Chaotic, but they seem to be in similar ballparks. For Fire, anything I'd say could be a guess.

So, with the new "More blue than red gems." requirement, the value of the Chaotic meta takes a huge drop at level 85. The main reason being that intellect is such a powerful stat compared to the other ones. The second reason is that there are a decent amount of sockets available, 10 in the gear set above. The more sockets there are, the higher the loss for the Chaotic meta. If the amount of sockets should increase in higher tiers (like 3 in robes/leggings, 2 in shoulders/gloves/etc.), it requires even more spell power for the Chaotic meta gem to break even. Ironically, when you have just 2 or 3 sockets in weak gear, the Chaotic meta is significantly ahead until you get to tier sets.

[Addendum]: Newer numbers from World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta - (English) Forums -> Mage 2 Cont (Till Blizz extends megathread) bring the Chaotic and Embe closer togehter. Also, the poster below was correct, I actually messed up the numbers. They should be mostly fixed now, though.

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So, let's simplify this a bit. With Lhivera's numbers, 3 rating = 1 int (for haste/mastery, and hit can be traded after the cap. Our combinations then become "490 int + 2% max. mana" and "370 int + 3% crit damage", with the the crit damage now being a flat 1.03 multiplier and 220 intellect (the difference) being a 3-3.5% damage increase by SP/Crit alone. (You could stop right here, since this is more than the chaotic meta could ever do, which is capped at +3% damage at 100% crit chance, regardless of multipliers/masters/etc).

490 less 370 is 120, not 220 as your math indicates. I'm not sure if this is a typo or you actually used 220 in your calculations. Regardless, if you use 120, Ember is still better, just not by the huge margin you calculated.

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2 things:

First, Blood fury (orc) have been nerf to 584 spell power.

Second, I have made some calculation to compare Ember meta and Chaotic meta for the Frost spec and with Deep Freeze.

Deep Freeze's coefficient: 2.1431

frost spec: +25% (x1.25)

mastery (0 pt): +20% (x1.2)

Glyph of Deep Freeze: +20% (x1.2)

Crit coefficient: 200% (x3)

Total multiplier: 2.1431*1.25*1.2*1.2*3 = 11.57274

Total with Chaotic meta: 11.57274*1.03 = 11.9199222

For 5k spell power without meta: 5000*11.57274 = 57863.7

For 5k spell power with Ember meta: 5054*11.57274 = 58488.62796 (+624.9)

For 5k spell power with Chaotic meta: 5000*11.9199222 = 59599.611 (+1735.9 / +1111)

The difference is +1111 damages in favor of Chaotic. It's only +734 with 4k SP and +70 with 2k SP. For 8k SP, the difference jump above 2k damage (~2.1%). For reference, with 5k SP, the difference is only +271 damage for Ice Lance and +162 for Frostbolt (33% crit).

This can be explain by the Mastery, the number of crit due to Shatter and the poor coefficient of Frostbolt. The Chaotic meta and Piercing green gem can be useful to obtain the 33% crit cap.

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However, Frost is also the spec that is most mana efficient. It also benefits quite a bit from crit damage, as its main procs have a 3x chance to crit.

Fire might be more even, as it's been having some mana issues, and Arcane could easily lean towards ember.

It's too bad that the Insightful cut didn't make it into Cataclysm, but it's probably because all healers benefit from spirit now.

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I was quite busy this week, so I just quick-edited the OP without mentioning it in the thread itself. I just quote the current "Latest Changes" here, that are mostly the topics discussed in the latest posts. An exception is the new Raidbuff overview - make sure to have a look at this one, too. Correct me if I'm missing any caster relevant buffs entirely or in a specific Spec.

Latest Changes

- Updated Orc Racial (584 SP instead of 1485)

- Added green gems

- Water Elemental Crit Dmg Multiplier is now 200% instead of 150%

- Reworked the Raid Buff overview (I'm not sure what to do with the "other" category yet)

- Added Off-Hand Enchant, Updated Leg Enchant (now 95 Int & 80 Stamina instead of 60 Int & 45 Stamina)

- Removed Chaotic Skyflare Diamond because of the new gem requirements for Chaotic Diamonds (more blue than red gems instead of more blue than yellow ones)

Edit: The Spell Coefficient table is still outdated. If someone has time to spare... ;)

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Even though the mouse over still says that Springy Arachnoweave adds 27 spellpower, on the actual Cata wowhead link the spellpower part is removed. It would make sense since Blizzard doesn't like it when people use enchants from the previous expansion, and the fact that no new cloak tinkers have been released.

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Profession Bonuses Question

When looking at the Professions in their current form, its looking like Engineering + Tailoring is the strongest DPS combo for a Mage atm, but with mana issues, current level combat ratings, etc,

Would Professions that give bonuses of static Int increases like Enchanting, JC, LWing, be more beneficial at lower tier levels then proc based profession perks like Engi and tailoring?

I haven't Raided on the Beta at all yet, so im not sure exactly how things are feeling on there for us.

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Just like for race, profession's bonuses is relativly equal to +80 sp. But each will be valuate differently in regard of spec, play style or guilde's optimisation.

  • Engineering is the most useful in terme of utility.
  • Jewelcrafting and Enchanting is better for optimisation.
  • Herbalism is great for Arcane because of the haste CD.
  • Etc.

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Regarding Tailoring vs other professions, it's important to keep in mind that the +int professions will also benefit from Blessing of Kings or MoTW in nearly every raid while Tailoring won't. With this in mind and adding Wizardry, if comparing a profession that adds 80 int and uses the 50 int cloak enchant, that profession would provide 130*1.05*1.05=143.325 int compared to the Tailoring proc. Tailoring would provide roughly 1.7 more spell power (145 vs 143.325) assuming the proc is up exactly 25% of the time, but it would lose out on 143.325/648.91=0.22% crit and 143.325*15=2149 mana.

Looking at it from that point of view, Tailoring looks like a weak profession compared the other ones, however Tailoring benefits from the proc coming early on in the once per minute that it can go off. In other words, on a 40 second fight you're pretty much assured that the proc will be up 15 of the 40 seconds or 37.5% uptime. On a 1 minute, 30 second fight you're likely to have it up for 30 of the 90 seconds or 33.3%. As the fight gets longer the actual uptime falls closer to the 25% mark but it's more likely that it'll come in just above 25% than it might fall below that mark. There is also factoring in the possibility of Lightweave being stacked with other cds, for example if happens to proc during a Bloodlust or is used with Combustion or Arcane Power it's value would be raised but if not used with those buffs it's value would be reduced.

Unless my math is off, it seems like Tailoring is slightly weaker than an 80 int profession in general, but has the potential to be stronger as fights get shorter and depending on how well it can be stacked with other cds.

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For a plain Int bonus, we can go for Jewelcrafting/Enchant combo for a total of +161 Int (~177 int with Wizardry and Might). It take place of no other enchant and can be very optimized. It also can be Alchemy or Inscription.

In the other hand, the proc from Tailoring/Engineering scale pretty good with burst phase, especially in the opening where all proc and CD is up at the same time. But it can be pretty chaotic in a moving fight with the loss of proc.

For me, the better solutions is to mix a plain Int bonus with a proc.

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Regarding racials:

While wowhead shows Blood Fury as a 584 spell damage increase it actually provides 173 on beta servers at the moment (at 85, both for 15 sec. duration).

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It have been confirmed to day, in the last patch change (built 13316) that Blood Fury will be 585 spell power.

I have try to test if Command's orc work with Water Elem. But, due to damage variation, result is not useful. If someone as way for testing it.

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But it [the proc from Tailoring/Engineering] can be pretty chaotic in a moving fight with the loss of proc.

I can't understand, why procs shouldn't work well together with movement phases. Of course, there is a chance that the proc gets lost completely, but remember that a flat stat is "lost" in movement phases also - and every time. As long as the proc and the flat bonus are equal on non-movement fights, you compare loosing more sometimes against loosing less everytime.

The only difference I can see is, that most notably in the arcane spec (no dots) you won't trigger procs in movement phases, what results in more uptime while not moving => the proc is more effective.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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The synergy with other cooldowns and procs is what making Tailoring and Engineering more desirable, in my opinion. Flat damage increases also lack the fun and the possibility at different encounters. We got an amazing new spell called Combustion, which can result in really high damage if used wisely. The same applies to procs and cooldowns that are provided by Engineering and Tailoring.

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Seems like blizzard broke the Mirror Image threat calculations, or namely the value UnitDetailedThreatSituation returns when you have MI up.

Pre 4.0.3 it was returning (-~4m + your threat) now it just returns a flat 0. So unless they fix the bug we have no idea what our threat on a mob is while MI is up.

Also happens on beta.

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