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KergeKacsa

The MM hunter in 4.0.1

550 posts in this topic

Hi,

Due to the big changes in 4.0.1 (mana gone, ArP gone, welcome focus!) I think it would be good to discuss things about the MM hunter in a separate thread.

(Half of the Cataclysm changes/abilities are nnot yet avaibles, and 3.3 is way too old for the current state.)

So: This topic is only about lvl80 gearing, talenting, gemming, enchanting, raiding, shot-priorities.

Welcome, theorycrafters!

Ps: As the theorycraft goes on its way, I'll update this post.

1.) Talent

This is a good base for talents: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

There is 5 floating points which can be put into 4 DPS talents:

Pathing: 1% haste /point

Bestial Discipline: 10% more pet focus / point

One With Nature: 18 AP / point

Resistance is Futile: When it procs, you could cast a focus-free Kill Command.

2.) Glyphs

We now have 3 type of glyphs: Prime, Major, Minor.

From now we have to buy (and learn) a glyph only once, after we learned it we can use them any time we want.

Minor: The recommended one are the same as before:

[iTEM]43351[/iTEM]

[iTEM]43350[/iTEM]

[iTEM]43338[/iTEM]

Major: It is very hard to find anything that helps us raiding, here is 4 of them which could be good, but that's the point with the biggest freedom.

[Glyph of Trap Launcher]: Reduces the focus cost of Trap Launcher by 10. (for AoE situations and/or CC.)

[Glyph of Mending]: Increases the healing done by your Mend Pet ability by an additional 3%. (Helps keep the pet alive.)

[Glyph of Misdirection]: When you use Misdirection to your pet, the cooldown on your Misdirection is reset. (It can be useful to transfer threat to pet, if FD is on CD.)

[iTEM]42904[/iTEM]: Faster moving -> win.

Prime: We have several choices, we have no closer theorycraft about them yet, but maybe these are the best:

[iTEM]42914[/iTEM]

[Glyph of Kill Shot]: If the damage from your Kill Shot fails to kill a target at or below 20% health, your Kill Shot's cooldown is instantly reset. This effect has a 6 sec cooldown.

[Glyph of Arcane Shot]: Your Arcane Shot deals 12% more damage on targets afflicted by your Serpent Sting.

These are thought to be a little weaker:

[Glyph of Aimed Shot]: When you critically hit with Aimed Shot, you instantly gain 5 Focus.

[iTEM]45625[/iTEM]

There are 3 more which can be good, though not as good as the uppers:

[Dazzled Prey]: Your Steady Shot generates an additional 2 Focus on targets afflicted by a daze effect.

[Rapid Fire]: Increases the haste from Rapid Fire by an additional 10%.

[serpent Sting]: Increases the periodic critical strike chance of your Serpent Sting by 6%.

3.) Shot priority

Our biggest priorites are to keep ISS buff on, to not waste any focus-regen (do NOT reach 100 focus), keep Serpent Sting on the target. cast instant Aimed Shot, keep HM or MfD on target.

If Hunter's Mark is not on target or running out and there's no Mark for Death on target and Mark for Death is not talented and focus/cooldowns/target health don´t allow for Kill Shot or Chimera shot

--> cast Hunter's Mark

If Kill Shot is off CD and target health is at or below 20%

--> cast Kill Shot

If Chimera Shot is off CD and got enough focus

--> cast Chimera Shot

If Master Marksman buff is up and focus won't overcap

--> cast Aimed Shot

If Serpent Sting is not on target and got enough focus

--> cast Serpent Sting

If Steady Shot won´t overcap focus and Imp. Steady Shot buff need refresh

--> cast Steady Shot

If enough focus to cast Arcane Shot now and still enough to cast Chimera Shot whenever it comes off CD

--> cast Arcane Shot

None of the above

--> cast Steady Shot

4.) Itemization

Our main stats are the following from the most important:

4.1 Hit

Hit capping is highly recommended however hit above the cap gives you no benefit. The hit cap for a hunter is 8% (247 hit rating), and you can subtract another 1% from Heroic Presence if you are a Draenei (Not anymore a group/raid buff). Note that pets do not get any from heroic presence, but generally this shouldn't impact your decision as to how to achieve your hit cap.

Pet hit will also round down, so being just slightly below the cap is usually worse than being slightly above.

4.2 Agility

Agility is one of the strongest stats for MM. It is recommended that agility be the primary stat gemmed for MM hunters (After you reached hit cap). Since agility's value isn't hugely above other stats it is often worth gemming agil/crit in yellow sockets as most yellow bonuses are worth picking up.

4.3 Mastery

It is increasing the chance for every shot to fire an additional shot for 115% weapon damage.

It isn't avaible on gear yet, there is no Mastery gems or enchants, reforging is the only way to get points in this stat.

4.4 Crit

Crit is generally a very solid stat for MM. It is especially valuable in increasing the proc rate of your Piercing Shots, which become extremely powerful at higher gear levels. You don't need to gem for it but as the best of the yellow stats available to MM (once hit capped) you may find it useful to gem agil/crit in yellow sockets to pick up most socket bonuses. Generally you don't need to be concerned about capping out on crit as MM (you need 104.8% crit before you max out on a boss).

4.5 Haste

With 4.0.1 the values of haste rating is a little bit more valuable than before.

The only shots affected by haste are autoshot and Steady shot), plus it increases our focus regeneration directly too.

5.) Pet

We place for 20 pets in our table, and we can keep 4 pets in out "bags", from where we can summon them with Call Pet. (Only one at a time.)

Pets do not give buffs, but inherit the following stats from the hunter:

- 100% hit (rounded down to the nearest integer)

- 100% crit

- 100% melee haste (Not Rapid fire and Pathing, for example.)

- 42.5% of hunter attack power

- 0% from hunter strength

Ferocity pets appear to scale at:

- 67% of hunter stamina

- 50% of hunter armor

Cunning pets appear to scale at:

- 72.5% of hunter stamina

- 60% of hunter armor

Tenacity pets appear to scale at:

- 78% of hunter stamina

- 70% of hunter armor

With the pet-revamp we can give almost any raid buffs with the right pet:

(Thanks for Malazee @ Petopia for the pictures)

catapetabilities.th.jpg cataraidbuffs.th.jpg petflowchart3.th.jpg

Pet-damage is normalized, so every pet from the same type (Feroicity, Cunning, Tenacity) is doing the same damage. (Except the Exotic pets which are doing a little higher, but they are avaible only with BM 31pt talent.)

Tha base Feriocity talent will be likely this: Hunter Pet Calculator - Wowhead

6.) Professions

Note that since agility is stronger for MM than other stats, the professions which allow you to choose the stat of your choice give you the best benefit.

Highest DPS:

• Jewelcrafting: 3 improved gems for a potential 42 Agi gain

• Blacksmithing: 2 additional gem sockets for a potential 40 Agi gain

• Engineering: Engineering enchants are stacking with normal enchants, so you could get a Hyperspeed Accelerators (240 haste with 1 min CD) on gloves, a Nitro boost on boots, Flexweave Underlay (23 Agility rating) on cloak, Mind Amplification Dish (45 Stamina) on helmet over your standard enchants.

Good DPS:

• Alchemy: 80 AP bonus to flasks

• Enchanting: 2 40 AP enchants to ring for a potential 80 AP gain

• Inscription: improved shoulder enchant for an 80 AP gain

• Leatherworking: improved bracer enchant for an 80 AP gain

• Skinning: 40 Crit rating

• Tailoring: swordguard embroidery cloak enchant procs for 400 AP for 15 sec

• Herbalism: 240 haste for 20 seconds every 2 minutes.

Low DPS:

• Mining: 60 Stamina (no dps gain)

7.) Enchants

There are no new or changed enchants with 4.0.1, so the enchants stay the same as before:

• Helm: [iTEM]50367[/iTEM] (Knights of Ebon Blade rep)

• Shoulder: [iTEM]50335[/iTEM] (Sons of Hodir rep or if you're a scribe you can use the improved shoulder enchant)

• Cloak: [iTEM]44457[/iTEM] (22 Agil from enchanters, or flexweave underlay if you're an engineer)

• Chest: [iTEM]44465[/iTEM] (10 Stats from enchanters)

• Bracers: [iTEM]44484[/iTEM] (50 AP, or leatherworkers can use their improved bracer enchant, blacksmiths can also add an extra socket)

• Gloves: [iTEM]38967[/iTEM] (20 Agil) or [iTEM]38953[/iTEM] (20 Hit) if you're low on hit (from an enchanter, engineers can use the rocket or haste enchant, blacksmiths can also add an extra socket)

• Belt: [iTEM]41611[/iTEM] (add an extra socket created by BS, engineers can also use a frag belt enchant to throw bombs)

• Pants: [iTEM]38374[/iTEM] (75 AP/22 crit created by LW, LW get a cheaper version)

• Boots: [iTEM]38976[/iTEM] (16 Agil) or [iTEM]38986[/iTEM] (12 Hit/12 Crit) if you need the hit (from enchanters, engineers also can use the 24 crit rocket boots). If you want a run speed buff you can use [iTEM]28279[/iTEM] (6 Agil + runspeed) or [iTEM]44491[/iTEM] (15 Stam + runspeed)

• 2H Weapon: [iTEM]44483[/iTEM] (110 AP) or [iTEM]44496[/iTEM] (25 Hit/Crit) if you need hit (from enchanters)

• 1H Weapon: [iTEM]44496[/iTEM] (25 Hit/Crit), [iTEM]44486[/iTEM] (65 AP) if you don't need hit (from enchanters)

• Ranged Weapon: [iTEM]41167[/iTEM] (40 Crit, crafted by engineers)

8.) Gems

• Meta: [iTEM]41398[/iTEM] (requires 1 gem of each color to activate)

• Red Sockets: [iTEM]40112[/iTEM] if hit capped, [Glinting Dreadstone] (10 Agi/Hit) if not.

• Yellow Sockets: Use [iTEM]40147[/iTEM] (10 Agi/Crit) or [iTEM]40150[/iTEM] (10 Agi/haste) unless the socket bonus is not worth getting in which case use [iTEM]40112[/iTEM].

• Blue Sockets: Use a [Rigid Majestic Zircon] (20 hit) or [Glinting Dreadstone] (10 Agi/Hit), if not hitcapped. If you are hitcapped, use [iTEM]40112[/iTEM].

(Nightmare Tear's are no longer good for us, since we got no AP from Stamina (Hunter vs. Wild SV talent removed.) or from Intellect (Careful Aim MM talent removed.).)

9.) Consumables

• With the remove of our mana [iTEM]46377[/iTEM] (180 AP) is the very best choice to us.

• [iTEM]42999[/iTEM] (40 Agil/Stam) is usually a noticable dps gain although on less challenging content using a fish feast will still be good and cheaper

• [iTEM]43005[/iTEM] (30 Str/Stam for your pet) is recommended for maximum dps but [iTEM]33874[/iTEM] (20 Str/Stam for your pet) is a suitable alternative for less challenging content

• [iTEM]40211[/iTEM] (500 Haste for 15 sec) is preferred for maximum dps.

• [iTEM]43466[/iTEM] is usable on our pet, since it doesn't get any buffs directly.

Updates:

2010-10-20

Updated shot priority list due to Chimera buff

Updated pet ability pictures (Thanks to Malazee and the correspoding Petopia thread)

2010-10-18

Corrected Flexweave Underlay (Thanks to Deabak)

2010-10-15

Removed rolling crits with SrS (Thanks to Kirbie44)

2010-10-13:

Wild Quiver damage 100% -> 115%

Engineering parts updated - Thanks to Missdirected

Pet scaling infos updated - Thanks to Namarus

Typos

2010-10-12

Thread started - Thanks to Rivkah (Consumables, Enchants, Professions, Itemization), Midnight (Shot priority)

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The hit cap has changed in 4.01 so we don't need quite as much as before (and the aura is gone). Also, double check some of the stuff you pasted--listing ArPen gems under max dps professions, for example.

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I believe that it has been posted in the Cata thread. PTR testing, none of our dots are affected by haste.

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Corrected: Removed ArP from everywhere, removed about haste affects our DoTs, statas Heroic Presence as only self-buff.

But I don't find anything about any changea to our hitcap, SpartanKillian, could you give me a source? (As I'm not able to log in to PTR.)

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I noticed in your post you marked mastery as not yet implemented. Everything I have read points to mastery being available but only via reforging. Reforging should be available in 4.01.

*Edit

I Removed my theory crafting because dots don't scale with haste it was incorrect.

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Some of your glyphs have old info. This is a list of all glyphs.

For primes, all but 3 are contenders for a raid DPS MM spec and that's just because 2 are for abilities MM won't use (Kill Command and Explosive Shot) and Dazzled Prey is against dazed targets, which I assume raid bosses are still immune to. Steady Shot and Arcane Shot look like they are givens, but the last choice doesn't seem as obvious.

Prime Glyphs

Aimed Shot - When you critically hit with Aimed Shot, you instantly gain 5 Focus.

Arcane Shot - Your Arcane Shot deals 12% more damage.

Chimera Shot - Reduces the cooldown of Chimera Shot by 1 sec.

Dazzled Prey - Your Steady Shot generates an additional 2 Focus on targets afflicted by a daze effect.

Explosive Shot - Increases the critical strike chance of Explosive Shot by 6%.

Kill Command - Reduces the Focus cost of your Kill Command by 3.

Kill Shot - If the damage from your Kill Shot fails to kill a target at or below 20% health, your Kill Shot's cooldown is instantly reset. This effect has a 6 sec cooldown.

Rapid Fire - Increases the haste from Rapid Fire by an additional 10%.

Serpent Sting - Increases the periodic critical strike chance of your Serpent Sting by 6%.

Steady Shot - Increases the damage dealt by Steady Shot by 10%.

For majors, there are tons of choices and none are straight up DPS increases. Disengage is likely to be a popular choice. Others might be good in less obvious ways, like Misdirection. If you are in a threat sensitive position, you could chain misdirect to your pet or you could do things like park your pet next to the gunship for Saurfang and then MD the Blood Beasts to it. Others that seem obvious aren't that great, like Silencing Shot. Multiple classes have received glyphs or talents that reward them for successfully interrupting, so you'll be competing with others, making it very difficult to get use out of the glyph.

Major Glyphs

Bestial Wrath - Decreases the cooldown of Bestial Wrath by 20 sec.

Concussive Shot - Increases the duration of your Concussive Shot by 2 sec.

Deterrence - Decreases the cooldown of Deterrence by 10 sec.

Disengage - Decreases the cooldown of Disengage by 5 sec.

Freezing Trap - When your Freezing Trap breaks, the victim's movement speed is reduced by 70% for 4 sec.

Ice Trap - Increases the radius of the effect from your Ice Trap by 2 yards.

Immolation Trap - Decreases the duration of the effect from your Immolation Trap by 6 sec., but damage while active is increased by 100%.

Master's Call - Increases the duration of your Master's Call by 4 sec.

Mending - Increases the healing done by your Mend Pet ability by an additional 3%.

Misdirection - When you use Misdirection to your pet, the cooldown on your Misdirection is reset.

Raptor Strike - Reduces damage taken by 20% for 5 sec after using Raptor Strike.

Scatter Shot - Increases the range of Scatter Shot by 3 yards.

Silencing Shot - When you successfully silence an enemy's spell cast with Silencing Shot, you instantly gain 10 focus.

Snake Trap - Snakes from your Snake Trap take 90% reduced damage from area of effect spells.

Trap Launcher - Reduces the focus cost of Trap Launcher by 10.

Wyvern Sting - Decreases the cooldown of your Wyvern Sting by 6 sec.

Minor Glyphs

Aspect of the Pack - Increases the range of your Aspect of the Pack ability by 15 yards.

Feign Death - Reduces the cooldown of your Feign Death spell by 5 sec.

Mend Pet - Your Mend Pet spell increases your pet's happiness slightly.

Revive Pet - Reduces the pushback suffered from damaging attacks while casting Revive Pet by 100%.

Scare Beast - Reduces the pushback suffered from damaging attacks while casting Scare Beast by 75%.

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I'm interested in your talent choice. What is the reasoning behind Resistance is Futile & Marked for Death?

Resistance is Futile looked great at first glance as a free damage. But Kill Command costs both focus and 1sec CD. Even with full uptime on the talent I don't see it in your rotation.

Marked for Death is just a free Hunter's Mark. Considering your typical encounter where you can mark the boss before the fight, you only gain bonus damage on adds. In that case taking the 2nd point in Bombardment seems a better gain. Even Concussive Barrage seems to add more as it provides some raid synergy.

Overall I believe neither of them are worth skipping Silence Shot and Trueshot Aura. And they can be critical for 10man raids.

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I'm interested in your talent choice. What is the reasoning behind Resistance is Futile & Marked for Death?

Resistance is Futile looked great at first glance as a free damage. But Kill Command costs both focus and 1sec CD. Even with full uptime on the talent I don't see it in your rotation.

Marked for Death is just a free Hunter's Mark. Considering your typical encounter where you can mark the boss before the fight, you only gain bonus damage on adds. In that case taking the 2nd point in Bombardment seems a better gain. Even Concussive Barrage seems to add more as it provides some raid synergy.

Overall I believe neither of them are worth skipping Silence Shot and Trueshot Aura. And they can be critical for 10man raids.

Considering the numbers of classes that can interrupt and can provide the raid bonus from TSA I seriously doubt it will be critical for a hunter to provide either of the two. More than likely the most critical thing a hunter will be bringing is his/her associated pet buff. Furthermore that is what dual spec is made for, you can have a 10 man spec, and a 25 man spec if buffs are quite important.

This spec that he provided from my point of view looks like it is focused solely on single target dps, hence less of an emphasis upon bombardment. (AOE talents).

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Seeing that this is more for 4.0.1, a small note to make is that we will only have 4 "active" pets available to call at level 80. As of current build, the last Call Pet won't be trainable until 82.

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I'm questioning the specc aswell. To me it seems like the "Resistance is Futile" is a completely wasted talent. And I wouldn't see kill command being used as MM anyways tbh.

Something that interested me though was the Concussive barrage talent+Dazzled prey glyph. Seeing as you have to pick between "Resistance is Futile", "Bombardment" or "Concussive Barrage" to get to the second last tier, and noone of them being a clean single target dps upgrade anyways. So what I am wondering is if the increase from the focus regen of SS (9 focus +2 from glyph = 11 focus per SS) is worth it? Only downside according to my knowledge, is that you'll "loose" a major glyph.

This is all speculation though as I am not a theorycrafter and have not tested enough on the PTR to find out. But I'm sure there are some of you out there that want to find this out?

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I'm inclined to agree with Lokk on all your points except for picking up Concussive Barrage. In 5 and 10 mans I'd highly recommend picking up Rapid Killing instead. I found that, while running dungeons and the first wing of ICC on the PTR, one of the bigger limiting factors was focus when switching targets. While you aren't going to get Rapid Killing off every mob you encounter (it's silly to think you'd get every killing blow), when you do it makes a world of difference.

Namarus: Even though many other classes/specs bring interrupts, the majority of them are melee range. Depending on group comp, it may be wise to bring Silencing Shot simply for the fact that it's a ranged interrupt.

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The talent spec; RiF is silly to have for a lvl 80 spec. OwN is a bad choice for 3 talent points even at 85 and moreso with 5 points less (especially when you chose RiF, you should have gone for IKC). TSA is a musthave in a raidspec, with the option to spec out of it if others are bringing it. You definately want to put an extra point into bombardment for the aoe situations that still exists untill cata hits.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is a much better base with 5 points left over - my suggestion being BD(3/3) and Pathing, HvW or, OwN (due to lack of opening tier 2 of either subspec) for 2 points.

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Low DPS:

• Herbalism: no dps gain bonuses

May be I'm incorrect but I think that the new Lifeblood that provides 240 haste for 20 seconds every 2 minutes could be a little good. Isn't it?

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Monitoring Focus is kind of important and having it up in the corner of the screen makes it difficult to watch, so here's an addon that is a simple movable resource bar (mana, energy, focus).

Stay Focused! : WoWInterface Downloads : Unit Mods

It has some hunter specific plugins as well.

An autoshot timer under the resource bar. This is especially important for MM since one of the spec bonuses is 15% autoshot damage. This will help with making sure you aren't moving when autoshot needs to fire.

Stay Focused! AutoShot : WoWInterface Downloads : Plug-Ins & Patches

And a Hunter Helper plugin that does the following:

* It's blue when you have enough focus to shoot main shot (Explosive / Chimera / Kill Command) followed by Arcane Shot.

* It's red when you don't have enough focus for main shot.

Stay Focused! Hunter Helper : WoWInterface Downloads : Plug-Ins & Patches

That last one seems like it will be really handy. When it's blue, you can shoot an Arcane Shot and still definitely have the focus to cast your main shot. Since it is red when it is too low to fire the main shot, I assume it is the regular Focus color when it is in between.

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Resistance is Futile:

Ok, maybe here I got a little confused.

a.) After proccing it gives you a buff, which gives you back the KC focus cost, OR

b.) You cast a KC, and IF it procced, you get back your focus cost?

If b.) then nevermind, it just junk. :(

MfD is our best options to reach Chimera Shot.

We got the other following choices:

- Rapid Killing: Minimal DPS, when you can KILL an adds.

- Silencing Shot: Melee interrupts are far more effective, than this, and in a 25-raid there is almost always a melee who can interrupt much faster than we. (Of course, for 10-man raiding it is good for one point.)

- Concussive Barrage: Do not work on bosses.

- RiF: stated as above.

From theese choices MfD is our best talent, it mean 1 free GCD every time when you switch target. (In single target fight it means nothing, except it is longer than 5 minutes, and there is no time to refresh HM.)

Corrected: Pet number, hitcap, Herbalism.

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Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is a much better base with 5 points left over - my suggestion being BD(3/3) and Pathing, HvW or, OwN (due to lack of opening tier 2 of either subspec) for 2 points.

I would wonder where is the best place for our remaining 5 points.

Our choices: (No, I don't consider HvW, until we hace too, but at the momemt it is not neccessary.)

One With Nature: 162 AP / point

Bestial Discipline: 10% more pet focus / focus

Pathing: 1% haste /point

I don't think that just by looking at them you could decide what is the best place for 5 point.

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All-in-all a good compliation of information. I have several comments on the OP though:

1) I am a little surprised by your suggested spec. The concerns I have are:

a) You have 2/2 CA, which may or may not be okay now (although it will definitely be needed when get to 85). If you have greater than 40% crit rate (which all MMs should in Wrath), then much of that second point is wasted. I anticipate having about 60-65% crit raid buffed after the 4.0 conversion of ArP on gear to haste/crit and then regemming. Unless I reforge some of the crit to mastery, which I do not plan on doing until I understand the trade-off better, the second point in CA may not be too useful. However, if your crit rate is enough lower than 70%, it is still probably better than other options.

b) You have 2/2 Sic'Em. Although I believe that this will be a must in Cata when we first get 85 and to also help with Wild Hunt, I do not think that 2/2 will be that beneficial now with how high our crit rates are. It may be better now to mave that point into Rapid Killing for the extra focus regen and damage after getting a killing blow. I am not certain about this yet since I haven't played around with pet focus with the changes yet, but its something to be aware.

c) You do not have Silencing Shot. I thought about not speccing into it either since it no longer does DPS, but then others persuading me to keep it. It stil does not cost a GCD, so you can still macro it into every shot. When it does happen to silence a caster, it will save the raid from possibly taking additional damage or adverse effects. Furthermore, the Silencing Shot major glyph is one of the few useful ones for MM. Getting back 10 focus from a free shot that also helps the raid, can be a DPS boost.

d) It's preferrential, but I see no reason not to take TSA. That way you have the huge benefit when soloing and are guaranteed to have it when doing dungeons and 10-man raids. Sure other may also provide the buff in dungeons or raids, but what if they die. In my opinion, there really is not anything better to spend the point on to not take it.

e) Termination may not be needed at all depending on your situation. If you have enough haste to get you SS cast time down to 1.5s with Pathing and ISS (which should be easy with the ArP conversion to haste) and have the KS glyph with doing back to back KSs, I show that the extra focus from Termination can be wasted since KS takes no focus. The only times that Termination can be useful is if you decide not to keep up the ISS buff during the last 20% (which hurts you autoshot damage and mastery) or if have dynamic haste effects over that period like Rapid Fire, Blood Lust, or Speed Pot. However, since RF is giving a lot of focus at the moment, especially with RR, Termination is not needed with RF. It can be useful with Bloodlust and Speed Potion though so that extra GCDs can be used on ArS, but it is not required since your SS cast should be around 1s then and can be used to quickly regen focus if needed in one of those two extra GCDs.

f) The Aimed Shot glyph does not seem like a good option. From my analysis, with doing 4 SSs per 10s CS rotation, you should only be getting an MMM proc about every 2 rotations or 20s. Thus, this glyph averages out to about 0.25 fps if you critically hit every Aimed Shot. If you crit every other Aimed Shot, then the regen is halved to 0.125 fps. I would think that the Arcane Shot glyph for 12% additional damage for ArS (this is upped from the 6% you list) would be much better, especially considering that ArS is going to be our second most used shot after SS. When under normal haste affects (raid buff and ISS), I anticipate doing 2-3 ArS per cycle, and even more when under temporary haste effects like RF, Bloodlust, and Speed Potion. Hence, that glyph should be a huge benefit.

g) Although Disengage is a fun talent and is useful situationally, I do not think that the 5s reduced CD will be beneficial on most boss fights. I believe that the Silencing Shot glyph is a must since it is essentially free focus return on fights with caster targets. However, if the fight does not have a caster target and is one with can be Disengage intensive, then I would switch the glyphs for that fight.

2) Concerning the priority, some thoughts:

a) For priority, since you have specced MfD, I would not worry about ever applying HM except for out of combat since MfD will take care of making targets in combat for you. Hence, it can be taken out of the priority.

b) There are debates on this, but personally, I would prioritize doing an SS pair to maintain the ISS buff over using an MMM proc. Since it takes on average 8 SS to proc MMM, wasting one chance to proc a stack if MMM procs on the first of an SS pair probably is not as much of a loss as compared to temporarily losing the ISS buff or having to change your rotation to maintain it. The trade if about 6.25 AiS average damage (50% chance that MMM will occur on the first SS in a pair with it requiring 8 SS casts for MMM) versus 2-3 seconds of ISS downtime and longer SS casts to regain it throwing off your rotation and possibly losing a GCD that cycle. Which wins out is hard to say at the moment.

c) As others have pointed out, you do not have KC in the priority if specced into it. I would put it below the priorities for both a SS pair for ISS and MMM procs.

3) For those questioning RiF, there are indeed still a lot of questions concerning it that have to be answered before we can fully analyze its benefit. However, with the items I listed above concerning some of the talents, I really do not see a better option for those points and plan to spec it to at least test it out, so I can see the following:

- How often it procs under various conditions

- KC to ArS relative damage and focus savings (since it would be replacing an ArS normally in the rotation)

- Even if the damage between KC and ArS ends up being even, KC with this proc costs 22 focus less. With the "optimal" MM rotation (with Pathing, over 15% haste from gear, and ISS) with CS, ArSx3, and SSx4 costing 24 net focus per cycle and requiring a focus correction cycle of CS, ArSx2, SSx5 every 2 of 3 cycles (this cycle regains 10 focus), each KC proc from RiF actually balances out focus on the optimal cycle and saves 2 ArS over 2 SS over the long haul. AiS procs from MMM have similar positive rotation impacts. Hence, although RiF and MMM procs replace ArS shots in the rotation, the focus saving that cycle will actually allow more ArS on future cycles.

4) For those suggesting Concussive Barrage, generally I see little benefit to it in raiding. It has no DPS benefits. In fact in some situations, it can actually be counter productive since it will slow a mob that the tank is trying to move someplace. It is true that CB may have benefits on certain fights where it helps with CC and survival (like with some Faction Champions strategies when it was being learned), but I believe that those will be the exceptions and not the norm.

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Whitefyst, you have a lot of valid comments, I give you that.

Could you give us a talent build with your choices for raiding?

Some of your points need some further tests:

- CA vs. crit: It could be correct not to put the second point in here over 70% crit, but I think few of us will get this crit level, when gemming to Agi. (Yesterday we get the patch I can check it, if nobody checks it sooner.) It would be surprise if RK would be a better place for the points.

- Sic'Em vs. Rapid Killing: Sic'em is not beneficial, but since our pet can "convert" mouch more focus into damage, I would vote for Sic'em.

- Silencing Shot: It need a talent point, a glyph AND a succesfull interrupt to get 10 focus. I Don1t think it will happen that much to worth it. (Even if we could have some sort of space in Major Glyphs.)

- Termination simple need some testing in a raid. (Or a good spread sheet from Shandra ;) )

Thank you for the well written ideas.

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As for the argument over and of the viability of SilS in raids, it has been discussed deeply on various posts and threads, comparing it with other classes' interrupts. There is however, at least for content that is left in 4.0.1, one benefit for speccing into SilS, that is when someone has not beaten LK in normal mode. Getting pulled into Frostmourne as Survival before outgearing the encounter was not easy. At least for 4.0.1, we have another option of bringing an interrupt pet I suppose, but it's not like we're having much choices in appealing DPs talents when it comes to that single talent point you're going to put into SilS.

As for future raiding application (as in Cata), there may or may not be any boss encounter requiring any individual interrupt like LK. It is intended to be a utility talent after all, something that whether you want to spec into it depends on encounter and raid comps, especially with the possible prevalence of 10m raids as compared to 25m raids in cata.

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Whitefyst, you have a lot of valid comments, I give you that.

Could you give us a talent build with your choices for raiding?

Some of your points need some further tests:

- CA vs. crit: It could be correct not to put the second point in here over 70% crit, but I think few of us will get this crit level, when gemming to Agi. (Yesterday we get the patch I can check it, if nobody checks it sooner.) It would be surprise if RK would be a better place for the points.

- Sic'Em vs. Rapid Killing: Sic'em is not beneficial, but since our pet can "convert" mouch more focus into damage, I would vote for Sic'em.

- Silencing Shot: It need a talent point, a glyph AND a succesfull interrupt to get 10 focus. I Don1t think it will happen that much to worth it. (Even if we could have some sort of space in Major Glyphs.)

- Termination simple need some testing in a raid. (Or a good spread sheet from Shandra ;) )

Thank you for the well written ideas.

Here is what I am currently leaning to for level 80: 2/31/3

Note:

- The 2 in OwN could be moved to IKC if RiF procs enough to make it worthwhile. With so many questions with RiF, I prefer the constant AP on essentially all attacks.

- If our crit rate is enough below 70%, then moving a second point into CA would be done. This point would probably come from RiF

- If I see with Wild Hunt that my pet is not maintaining its focus high enough often enough despite the high crit rate with 2/2 GftT and 1/2 Sic'Em, then I would move another point into Sic'Em, probably from RiF.

- Concerning Silencing Shot, I was persuaded to spec it even before the glyph became available just because of the fact that the macroed use of it will silence casters and improve raid survivability and the small situational uses of it as a ranged interrupt. The glyph is just an added bonuses to already having the shot and the fact that there are not really any DPS beneficial major glyphs for MM. Plus, anytime you did get the 10 focus, it would help counteract part of the focus deficit in the "optimal" MM rotation, but it is nothing something I plan to rely on. Note that I had SilS specced in Wrath since it did DPS. Although I never had to use it as an interrupt, I did see plenty of times in logs where it did interrupt the target although I was not even trying to do so.

- I feel very good about the remainder of the points such that they need no explanation.

At 85, I currently plan to spec 5/33/3 if RiF pans out and 7/31/3 if RiF is not beneficial.

Note:

- These specs have 2/2 CA and Sic'Em since they should be needed at level 85 with relatively lower end gear and with crit rate scaling on bosses with tier progression.

- It is possible that if my haste (SS cast time and focus regen) is low enough that I may move a point in the BM tree into Termination.

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Have you also mentioned that pets also scale off 100% of their masters' haste and crit? With spider's bite (assuming the use of a ferocity pet) and the base melee critical strike chance, they will always have +15%~ more crit than their master.

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Have you also mentioned that pets also scale off 100% of their masters' haste and crit? With spider's bite (assuming the use of a ferocity pet) and the base melee critical strike chance, they will always have +15%~ more crit than their master.

As far as I know, this scaling does not include the base crit (and probably haste) that the hunter has. I am not sure what the base crit value is for the hunter at 80, but some beta testers reported that pets have higher than 15% more crit than the master after talent at 85, because hunters will have a base of -1.5% crit chance at 85, while pets have 0% base crit chance.

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