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Carebare

[BETA] Resto Discussion

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Is there currently no way to cast Lifebloom with a macro then (because it picks up the Tree version)? Or with Clique for that matter?

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Apparently not. It works fine on Live, but annoyingly it is still broken on the Beta. It's been dropping off really often because of this for me.

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Same, just killed the robots too. Have a bunch of screenshots.

Is Empowered Touch refresh not working? I thought it was on beta.

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First boss in Bastion, Halfus. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Rejuv blanketing is still a viable strategy, at least during the AoE damage parts of the fight, especially during the end. I found popping ToL during one of the scorches was pretty decent to spam lifeblooms+regrowths on OoC procs, so I could have it up at the end when he's going all spin-spinny.

Sitting @ 1300 haste right now, I reforged a bit of my spirit as heroics were showing I really didn't need regen.

Also nope, Emp Touch is still not refreshing.

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I need to find a better guild to test, but your numbers are roughly the same as mine on our multiple failed attempts...

Also, the various bugs are really starting to bother me. Having to target for Lifebloom is really screwing with my head, and tank healing is a wash without being able to refresh Lifebloom with HT/Nourish.

EDIT: I could just not be very good!

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Yea, I just sort of gave up on tank healing, outside of refreshing my 3stack LB + throwing rejuv+regrowth whenever I could. At least ToL lifebloom is macro-able?

I guess so, makes the LB+Regrowth spam strategy a lot easier.

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I'm not really rejuv-blanketing, although I'm using it a lot. I am using WG basically on cooldown, it's great. Lifebloom is a pain right now due to both bugs, but still useful.

Still very little Nourish. I'm often more likely to just wait for something to do than to cast Nourish--but I might just need to change habits there.

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Rejuv-blanketing wouldn't be viable in the sense that you can just cast Rejuv on any person no matter what and expect to not run out of mana. Although I'm using Regrowth to patch instead of Nourish and not having mana problems, probably I don't even need to use HT/Nourish still. If Carebare's logs are any indication, she didn't use either spell at all, and presumably she didn't run out of mana, so...

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Yea, WG is pretty amazing on any sort of short aura-type damage; same deal with effloresence, if you can get like 2 ranged to stand in it. Or melee, if you have them.

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I can't tell whether Halfus is broken or not, but he's kind of trivial. Is there any besides these two?

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Rejuv-blanketing wouldn't be viable in the sense that you can just cast Rejuv on any person no matter what and expect to not run out of mana. Although I'm using Regrowth to patch instead of Nourish and not having mana problems, probably I don't even need to use HT/Nourish still. If Carebare's logs are any indication, she didn't use either spell at all, and presumably she didn't run out of mana, so...

It's hard to adequately gauge HT/Nourish, since honestly if they're not going to refresh LB I wasn't going to waste time casting them.

The BWD boss was great fun and actually challenging to figure out, though moderately easy once we had it nailed.

The TH boss was a joke and the healing ridiculously easy after the first minute or so, to the point that we were yawning on vent.

Mana was totally fine for me, all of my gear is gemmed with haste, int/haste, and stam/haste. I did use a spirit flask though.

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Healed both the 25 man bosses. I have to say I really wasn't using HT/Nourish much on these bosses. Part of this is the fact that the LB refresh mechanic isn't working on other players.

Halfus Wyrmbreaker -

Wild Growth = 33%

Rejuv = 29%

LB = 16%

Regrowth = 7%

Tranq = 7%

Swiftmend = 5%

HT = 2.5%

LS = 1.7%

Other boss I didn't save the log, but it was similar healing style.

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I can't tell whether Halfus is broken or not, but he's kind of trivial. Is there any besides these two?

On 25, apparently Halfus is pretty difficult with his enrage timer.

These are the only two, today.

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Halfus isn't a pushover in 25 man. Some of the dragons nearly one shot tanks. Rdruids are very potent against the drake that only allows instant casts.

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Unless something changes, 4 piece pvp will probably be bis for pve. 400 int and 2 secs off swiftmend vs 320 or so spi and I don't even remember what the 2 piece bonus is.

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Unless something changes, 4 piece pvp will probably be bis for pve. 400 int and 2 secs off swiftmend vs 320 or so spi and I don't even remember what the 2 piece bonus is.

You would not use the PvP chest as it has no bonus stats except Resil and you only need 4 parts so you would end up with:

PvP 365 set - 470 Int (+400 Int due to set bonuses = 970 total), 102 Sta, 172 Crit, 32 Mastery with -2 sec on SM.

PvE 359 set - 595 Spi (+540 Spi due to set bonus = 1135 total), 178 Haste and 5% bonus crit on LB.

The mana regeneration between the extra Int/Spi works out roughly equal using a 7/3/31 (regen focused) spec but you have a potentially better set bonus and more SP. You also have reforging to throw into the mix however which complicates things but generally favors the PvE set due to not being able to lower Resil and a larger pool of stats to reduce.

If nothing else it highlights the reason to keep regeneration mechanics based off Spirit rather than max mana (I guess Blizzard haven't learned this after all this time). I would say the best way to go about this would be to make Revitalize trigger a buff boosting our Meditation by a further 50% for 6 seconds instead of 3% max mana but as it is 3am that could be wrong and that excludes balance issues for PvP.

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Is there currently no way to cast Lifebloom with a macro then (because it picks up the Tree version)? Or with Clique for that matter?

Not sure if this problem is still current... with clique you can just drag lifebloom on your bars, then with clique make it click that button which should work both in and out of tol.

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Not sure if this problem is still current... with clique you can just drag lifebloom on your bars, then with clique make it click that button which should work both in and out of tol.

My healing binds via Vuhdo are exactly the same as live atm, but lifebloom is a macro instead of spell. The macro is this:

/target vuhdo

/click ActionButton12

/targetlasttarget

and you need to have lifebloom on the bar at spot 12 (or w/e).

I also killed both bosses pretty easily, I'm kind of surprised you went with total haste setup, Mana is far from irrelevant, and SP is never irrelevant, I kinda figured everyone would be int gemming.

Reforging wise its Haste>Mastery>Crit>Spirit. I was considering re setting up my gear a bit less recklessly to get some spirit back and just went for it instead. I definitely needed to watch mana, but as long as you aren't spamming Regrowth or recklessly overhealing it's quite doable. Also get used to finding a good spot to use potion of concentration! This will be our new potion for awhile. And obviously Int flasks. And I used the Hurricane weapon chant instead of w/e garbage chant it is that procs 200 spirit.

I am extremely unimpressed with spirit atm. I'm pretty sure I would lose it all for boomkin haste/crit/mastery gear. Consider this, 1 Rejuv, costs 3725 mana. Divide that by 12 for 310.4 mp5, which takes 620.8 Spirit. So it takes 620 frickin spirit to get 1 rejuv worth of mana a minute? That is like all the spirit on 4 pieces of gear.

I haven't run the math, but Haste/Mastery/Crit have to do more throughput then that... Spirit seems like a complete waste.

The brd boss was a pretty long encounter, and I was in blues, and I managed my mana. I'm pretty sure we'll get all the regen we need from int which is also substantial throughput, screw spirit, it seems to be wasted item points in the current state of it.

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That's why spirit needs to be better. It takes way to much spirit to make any noticeable difference from what I can tell. INT feels like a better regen stat for druids.

The 4 piece blue PvP set is better than heroic 5 man gear for early raiding. You should end up replacing it with T11 though, after upgrading 2 pieces at a time.

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As Playered mentioned, it's because they base a lot of regen mechanics around your max mana still, which is especially dangerous now that Intellect is the primary stat for all casters. They are probably going to have to do yet another complete redesign in order to fix that problem, though. If Spirit is too powerful, then you won't need a lot of it and you'll get really angry when it's on all your gear. If it's not powerful enough, you'll try to ignore it and just hope you don't run out of mana before everybody keels over.

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That's kind of why spirit is an annoying stat. It has no secondary benefit. So if you end up having too much you're wasting the stat value of it.

I don't think they'll change things around for druids concerning their mana until after Cata goes live. Druids have a huge mana return, but we also have to consume a lot of mana to keep up with the HPS of other healers who have much lower mana return.

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Except you aren't wasting it because you can reforge off large chunks of it and take a couple of pieces of gear without Spirit too if you want. I would much rather we were based on needing to achieve a certain level of Spirit and then having the option to reforge/gear around staying at that point.

Are people who got to raid on the Beta finding that they are able to use WG/SM roughly on cooldown while essentially spamming RJ in between?

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Except you aren't wasting it because you can reforge off large chunks of it and take a couple of pieces of gear without Spirit too if you want. I would much rather we were based on needing to achieve a certain level of Spirit and then having the option to reforge/gear around staying at that point.

Are people who got to raid on the Beta finding that they are able to use WG/SM roughly on cooldown while essentially spamming RJ in between?

You are wasting it if you gear a certain way before the fight. You don't know how much spirit you'll need for x fight until you actually do it. This value that you need could also change from fight to fight.

I was raiding 25 man encounters on Beta and I can tell you mana was an issue, I never went completely oom. I would use Swiftmend/WG on CD when there was aoe to heal. I would keep LB on the tank (using LB to refresh it). I would keep rejuv on all tanks, and cast it on sporatic dmg to the raid (or throwing it on WG targets if they needed more support). I wasn't as spam friendly as WotLK with it, but rejuv ended up being 30% of my healing most of the time.

I did not have a ton of spirit on my gear, and I was using the PvP set which has next to no spirit. Some of the premade blues they give you have spirit/mastery. So I would replace them for haste/crit items, and reforge crit of the gear to gain spirit. Spirit/haste items appear to be the best, but they are rare to come by in the starting gear. My MP / 5 self buffed was around 1500 in combat.

I am extremely unimpressed with spirit atm. I'm pretty sure I would lose it all for boomkin haste/crit/mastery gear. Consider this, 1 Rejuv, costs 3725 mana. Divide that by 12 for 310.4 mp5, which takes 620.8 Spirit. So it takes 620 frickin spirit to get 1 rejuv worth of mana a minute? That is like all the spirit on 4 pieces of gear.

I was curious to see what mana returns it would require if you soley used INT for the same purpose.

Assuming you have Furor (15% mana increase), GOTW (6% int) and Mark (5% int). Also assuming that revitalize procs once every 8 seconds. This is fairly forgiving. If you spend 3 points on Revitalize the average proc rate is 9 seconds if only using LB on a single target. Spamming rejuv throughout the raid can push it down to 6.5 seconds. So let's assume that Revitalize is procing on avg once every 8 seconds. That means you'll see 7.5 procs per minute.

3725 mana / 7.5 = 496.67, this is the mana return you need to see from each revitalize proc.

496.67 / 0.03 = 16,555 increased mana you need to cover that mana gained from revitalize proc

16,555 / 1.15 = 14,396 mana you need before furor is applied

14,396 / 15 = 959.73 int to cover that mana conversion

959.73 / 1.06 / 1.05 = 862.3 Int

So completing ignoring replenishment and innervate (and 2% increased mana meta), you need ~862 INT to gain the mana return from revitalize to cover 1 rejuv a minute (based on 8 second procs).

862 INT to gain the same mana return of 621 spirit. Where spirit gives us no increased healing and crit.

So ignoring everything outside of revitalize (mana tide included), Int is only about 40% worse than spirit for mana return, but with INT you gain spellpower and crit.

For fun if you say revitalize procs every 6.5 seconds then you only need ~700 int to cover the rejuv a minute cost. At that point Int and spirit are extremely close for mana return.

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