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Tahotar

Update from Tigole on 2.1

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What he's saying is that previous locked instances did not require a key on previous PTR's. For example, we didn't have to execute the War of the Shifting Sands on the test realm in order to test through the Twin Emps, and we didn't need to turn in a truck full of Nexus Crystals to test Naxxramas. It's something we cannot make assumptions about because inadequate information is present, and previous raid instances have gone either way.

We didn't need to turn in nexus crystals for Naxx *only* because they added an NPC with an alternate keying quest.

Re: AQ40 - since there was no *personal* keying requirement, no conclusion can be drawn.

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Yes odd... perhaps we scared Tigole off after not being completly smitten with the moderate update and hes gone all emo on us and removed it :P

the emote is /blizzllfixit.

The wording that it will only improve 'Rogue DPS' is wierd, we know it will boost all melee DPS but I suppose its just pointed out to the ones who were most effected/complained the loudest.

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Berserking Stance + BoS = FTW And since you have to exceed 10% of the MTs threat to pull...start out slow and scale up...not too mention if they are behind they get to spam execute at 19%.

Those were obvious... and don't account for being able to do more DPS than rogues without pulling aggro. Heh I watch our enhancement shaman go splat all the time from 800-850 DPS range which currently have aggro mechanics broken for melee so don't have the extra 20% melee reduction (meaning aorund 1050 DPS should be possible if you do).

Then again I'm basing this on Morogrim which has a few threat issues due to Tidal Wave slowing the MT's autoattack so any fight not aggro sensitive at all I guess it would be possible.

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Oh well,

Nowhere in that post was there any indication that there would be any improvement in prot spec for paladins.

Looks like it will be back to holy for me again come PTRs. /sadpanda

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Not releasing the SSC nerfs sooner as hotfixes or smaller patches is disheartening. For the slew of decent guilds that have only now entered SSC riding the Gruul nerf wave, how does this not send the message of "farm tuned content and pvp for a month".

That said, with tuned content done in 2 days, we'll probably end up powering through whatever SSC we can while the getting is good. "Pre-nerf" is the new heroic mode.

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Those were obvious... and don't account for being able to do more DPS than rogues without pulling aggro. Heh I watch our enhancement shaman go splat all the time from 800-850 DPS range which currently have aggro mechanics broken for melee so don't have the extra 20% melee reduction (meaning aorund 1050 DPS should be possible if you do).

Then again I'm basing this on Morogrim which has a few threat issues due to Tidal Wave slowing the MT's autoattack so any fight not aggro sensitive at all I guess it would be possible.

Isn't Unleashed Rage still generating bugged threat for shaman, though?

On an aggro sensitive fight, yeah, wars will have to really pace themselves. On fights that don't slow down the tank's threat generation, though, they can pretty much go nuts as long as they're aware.

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The topic appears to have been deleted... Was this a mistake?

Reminds me of the Navy, they realized that the post was raising morale so they had to get rid of it.

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The topic has been deleted. I wonder why. They changed their mind? Too much infos? Hope they will repost it.

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Good stuff, and I'm sure there's more to the patch but a little disappointed to see no mention of further class tweaking. There are still a few really gimp trees that could use a little love, but if they're all busting their chops getting BT ready to go and fixing the problems in the current instances I can live with it.

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The timetable scares me, it really does. I'm hoping this means we'll get 2.1 soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if this means 2.1 will come at the end of the arena season which is still ages away. (this feels like the 'yay expansion pack is coming so let's do nothing but pvp for 2 months' period pre-tbc release)

I can't read the post itself, the forums are giving me an error message, but did he mention anything about heroic dungeons? I got from post 4 in this threat that they are readjusting the difficulty, but did Tigole mention anything about re itemising the lvl 70 dungeons with ilvl 115 blue's?

[e] I suppose I figured out why I got an error message when I tried to follow the link.

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While it's definitely reassuring that they recognize these issues, one of the largest problems plaguing the game currently is this stupidly long patch cycle. Most of us already knew in the back of our heads that there was no way they were going to let some of these things continue. Sure, reading the post makes me feel pretty good so it's a success in that respect.

If my memory serves me correctly, they did state in the past they were working towards changing the model more towards smaller/quicker patches than these huge mega patches. I wonder what happened with that.

There's no reason why some of these fixes should wait until Black Temple and Hyjal testing which is a mammoth task in itself. I'm having a hard time grasping the concept of these super massive sweeping mega change patches.

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If it was correct that a German CM posted about T5 equal arena gear was being implemented, I dont see why if thats the level of upgrade the gear is going to have.

New PvP items will have what something like, 6 more stamina, 3 more resilience & maybe 2 extra DPS.

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Chest goes from ilvl 101~ to ilvl 109~ (unknown bonus armor ontop?)

Would of been better to see an example of an item worse for wear on budget than this, but still its an atleast a step in the right direction, add another 10sta and some bonus armor and it comes quite nicely close to budget.

Halfway through reading Tigole's post, I came across the Destroyer comparison and immediately pulled up Virakar's item calculator to check the numbers. It is a step in the right direction, but I find it mildly unsettling that despite this being evidence of item revamp, the item still comes in significantly underbudget. It obviously isn't on the level of the old Big Bad Wolf's Head, but it suggests that they still haven't implemented the simple sanity check on items being noticeably under- or overbudget which I think we all agree makes sense.

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The issue with tuning is that it's not as simple as math, if it was just math they could have consumables retuned in a day. But they can't just make a spreadsheet like mine and have it spit out a number for boss HP because only Nihilum would be able to kill it. No one performs to their max potential, in fact in a lot of casual guilds there are people who perform as low as perhaps half their potential. Where do you draw the line? What is too easy, what is too hard? Difficult to answer. Obviously they didn't get it right the first time. So give them some time to testing and get it right the second time.

It's like they say... Vashj wasn't built in a day. Or was she? /blizzwillfixit

Edit: I still can't emote.

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We’re also reducing the Glancing Blow damage penalty for creatures 1-3 levels higher than the player. This will have a significant effect on melee DPS as it relates to endgame melee dps. More details on this at a later time.

Does that sound ominous for anyone else? If Rogues are living longer, doing better damage, then the Blizzard thinking may be "Okay, we'll have to nerf their output to compensate."

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Halfway through reading Tigole's post, I came across the Destroyer comparison and immediately pulled up Virakar's item calculator to check the numbers. It is a step in the right direction, but I find it mildly unsettling that despite this being evidence of item revamp, the item still comes in significantly underbudget. It obviously isn't on the level of the old Big Bad Wolf's Head, but it suggests that they still haven't implemented the simple sanity check on items being noticeably under- or overbudget which I think we all agree makes sense.

Not to derail the thread too much. But. Can you link the item calculator?

Edit: To the poster above. Glancing blow penalty could go two way. Lower rogue damage or higher armor on bosses. Second option would affect hunters a lot too, so you may be onto something.

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That wouldn't really be enough to justify "but for now, expect big changes to Flasks and Elixirs." personally, however trying to work out what Blizz means when they say something like this is often a pathway to delusion.

Please god, let every boss be Garr.

Does that sound ominous for anyone else? If Rogues are living longer, doing better damage, then the Blizzard thinking may be "Okay, we'll have to nerf their output to compensate."

Given that skilled rogues aren't even in the ballpark of Shadowpriest-fueled offensive casters right now, there will be a lot of work to go before we get to the point of nerfage.

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Not releasing the SSC nerfs sooner as hotfixes or smaller patches is disheartening. For the slew of decent guilds that have only now entered SSC riding the Gruul nerf wave, how does this not send the message of "farm tuned content and pvp for a month".

That said, with tuned content done in 2 days, we'll probably end up powering through whatever SSC we can while the getting is good. "Pre-nerf" is the new heroic mode.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Gruul and Magtheridon changes were slated for 2.1.0 and were moved up. Hopefully something similar will happen with SSC trash changes and other smaller code changes (I can't imagine SSC trash is more than a variable somewhere they have to change) as the unrest continues to build when more guilds pass Hydross.

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My understanding is that potions are changing so that you can no longer stack flasks and elixirs. You will have to choose between two elixirs OR one flask. The elixirs also are split into combat and protection, so for example you can't stack two DPS elixirs - only a DPS one and a protection (frost/nature/stoneshield/etc).

So for example a shadow priest could pop a distilled wisdom or supreme power, but then they can not use any elixirs (adepts, shadow power, etc). Or they can pop a shadow power and a shadow protection, but not shadow power + adepts. Tanks can pop a titans but then can't use stoneshield + stats elixirs, or even protection elixirs.

This is from an internal test build a few weeks old, so it may change before release, but IMO it makes sense. It is going to make some people angry and obviously requires retuning of many (if not all) fights, but over the long term this is the right solution.

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Those were obvious... and don't account for being able to do more DPS than rogues without pulling aggro. Heh I watch our enhancement shaman go splat all the time from 800-850 DPS range which currently have aggro mechanics broken for melee so don't have the extra 20% melee reduction (meaning aorund 1050 DPS should be possible if you do).

Then again I'm basing this on Morogrim which has a few threat issues due to Tidal Wave slowing the MT's autoattack so any fight not aggro sensitive at all I guess it would be possible.

The added aggro from Unleashed Rage was fixed already. Also, shaman have Spirit Weapons which is 15% reduced threat. While not as good as rogue's 29%, I think that's meant to penalize shaman because they are hybrids. If that makes any sense? Essentially rogues are pure DPS so give them -29% threat. Warriors are pure melee, but not necessarily pure DPS so give them -20%. And shaman have the option of speccing for healing, melee, or casting so only give them -15%. Paladins - you guys are fucked sorry :(

The only problem with enchancement shaman is they are very very streaky unlike warriors that can throttle their aggro. The only protection shaman have is waiting longer than everyone else before attacking in case they get their insane windfury streak procs that would pull aggro if they started attacking too early.

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Please god, let every boss be Garr.

I hate Garr, but I hate farming for consumables even more.

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