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2.1: Graveyards, Flight Paths and Trinkets!

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Anything to bring to a raid as in? If you mean utility, then I have to disagree, you bring the most utility, of any healing class...As said before, just their blessings (Discluding aura and cleanses ect) will see to that.

I meant the holy trinity - tank / Healing / DPS

we only bring healing. Every other healer class can take one or even both other jobs.

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also, those patch notes are most likely fake, why are people panicking so much about them?

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The problem is that the usefulness of most group heals is much less than it would seem. Prayer of Healing hits everyone in the group for like what...1.7k or so? With a three second cast. So in that time you can pop off two Flash of Lights or 1.5 Holy Lights for much greater mana efficiency. The only time Prayer of Healing wins is if 3-5 people in your group need that entire heal, and even then spamming FoL is almost as good. Flash of Light and Holy Light combined with Illumination and high crit rates are just so damned good that they outdo nearly everything else in nearly all situations. Paladins don't *need* other heals because the two they have blow everything else out of the water.

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Without factoring in illumination, on a target with BoL, HL is the single most efficient single target heal unless you are comparing it to healing wave with a full stack of healing way and over 2k healing.

With illumination factored in, no heal is even close to approaching it for mana efficiency.

Huh? How did you get this "fact"? I just compared with a paladin in my guild, same amount of +heal roughly, he does about the same as my gheal for 140 more mana (240 more if I get my 2pc t5 and it tops the tank off)? And if PoM bounces back to the tank even once, it completely destroys both of those, if it never bounces, it's still nearly as efficient and takes 0 human reaction time/etc.

The problem is that the usefulness of most group heals is much less than it would seem. Prayer of Healing hits everyone in the group for like what...1.7k or so? With a three second cast. So in that time you can pop off two Flash of Lights or 1.5 Holy Lights for much greater mana efficiency. The only time Prayer of Healing wins is if 3-5 people in your group need that entire heal, and even then spamming FoL is almost as good. Flash of Light and Holy Light combined with Illumination and high crit rates are just so damned good that they outdo nearly everything else in nearly all situations. Paladins don't *need* other heals because the two they have blow everything else out of the water.

2k on PoH, takes 1k mana... You can do ~5 flash of lights for a little less mana, probably 1 of which will crit (between 1 and 2 avg). So you spend over 2x as long, for a little mana efficiency? Now let's not forget that any fight where I may PoH now and then, I will inner focus it, so I heal 10k HP for 0 mana. Oh, and if it's constant AoE dmg (Sapphiron) downranked renew -still- beats both

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Huh? How did you get this "fact"? I just compared with a paladin in my guild, same amount of +heal roughly, he does about the same as my gheal for 140 more mana (240 more if I get my 2pc t5 and it tops the tank off)? And if PoM bounces back to the tank even once, it completely destroys both of those, if it never bounces, it's still nearly as efficient and takes 0 human reaction time/etc.

Blessing of light makes holy light absurdly efficient, expecially at low levels of healing.

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Continueing with the patch notes, here's another warrior dps nerf! :)

I wonder how long they will keep reducing the coefficients of our dps; as they will always have to. Rage doesnt seem to be 'normalized' at all, it's still a linear function of damage dealt, just a bit flatter. 5% cut from flurry will just make the curvature smaller, but the big picture doesnt change a lot.

Bear in mind there may be broader mechanics changes that make this necessary. If they made changes that boost all melee DPS across the board, then maybe in that new environment warriors really did need a tweak or two. Wait and see the whole picture.

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Without factoring in illumination, on a target with BoL, HL is the single most efficient single target heal unless you are comparing it to healing wave with a full stack of healing way and over 2k healing.

With illumination factored in, no heal is even close to approaching it for mana efficiency.

Part of the problem with that is it requires BoL which probably means giving up Kings in a 5-man, which can be the difference between insta-gib and not on some fights. Theoretical efficiency aside, a bad run of non-crits and you'll blow through your mana faster than any other healer. BoL is a flat amount applied after the rest of the modifiers, which means you can downrank Flash and still receive full modifier on it. I haven't run the exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure there's a point at which Flash is still more efficient. Anyway, that's a theorycrafting thread and this isn't.

The "fake" patch notes named the 4 Darkmoon cards exactly and also nailed some specific changes to SSC that have been confirmed by Blizzard. Chances are pretty good they're at least mostly legitimate.

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Buffs aren't utility. They're raid-wise power enhancers, yes, but it's no substitute for having a more difficult game-time decision than "big heal" or "little heal". Even with this change, in terms of power a paladin at the very least the equal of any other healer in a raid, but in a 5 man there's really no substitute for a group-ish heal on an AE boss, even if you can only blow it once or it only hits 3 people at a time. That's utility, not a 15 minute buff.

Ironically, raiding erases much of that flexibility by focusing the damage in a single place.

But then again you can be hit while healing. As a priest my biggest problem is actually survivability on trashmobs. If I have to heal for 8k after 3 secs in a fight, I have to do this and will get the mob on me and instantly die, granted I have fade but on multipack trash without much CC it isn't going to save my ass. But that's 5 man content, in raidcontent a paladin brings just as much utility as a priest imo.

As a priest I use renew, greater heal and pom in raids and flash heal in very few encounters.

I might not be objective but I do think priests might need some buffs, mainly some changes in the holy tree like a decent working circle of healing some alternative for soulwell and maybe some extra mana efficiency or "emergency" talents. And ofcourse there's the horrible itemization which will hopefully be fixed in 2.1.

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If you have 8 healers, you probably want something like four paladins, a druid, a shaman, and a couple of priests.

As a raid leader, Illumination being 50% would not make me cease bringing 3-4 paladins when possible.

We had great success with a 5-1-1-1 setup about a month ago, and would probably still be running with something similar were it not for attrition.

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Blessing of light makes holy light absurdly efficient, expecially at low levels of healing.

I'm well aware, but at the serious end-game raiding level (and by that I mean, "Tailored" level), my gheal is more effiecient than any paladin's holy light. And we don't even bring enough paladins to always have BoL on our entire raid.

Once I have 2pc t5, I think even with illumination taken into effect, I will be more efficient with gheal, than paladins will be with holy light. It's already 140 mana cheaper than max rank holy light.

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The Paladin Holy tree, in combination with their basic utility and synergy with other classes - especially shadow priests - does create an incredible support class...this is something I don't deny. I don't really need to be reminded how powerful all the effects combined are, and I can easily say I play my class properly.

Our shining points are our single target healing, our endurance when geared and organized in raids properly, and our passive utility.

We utterly lack in other things, however. We have total inflexibility when it comes to healing and all of our active abilities are reactive. Our panic buttons either don't stack or are on long cooldowns - though shaman share the same problem, at least in terms of having panic buttons at all.

The point that I suppose matters the most to me is that this change does nothing for other support classes except perhaps mollify the ones screaming 'imba' - at least for a little while. While other healing classes differ in basic healing style/ability, their problem of poor raid utility still stands. Tone down Paladins? Great. I hope you bring more utility to your raid somehow because of it. Designer focus is being misdirected.

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But then again you can be hit while healing.

The margin that healing plate buys you isn't much. Other than stamina and raw AC it doesn't get you much since you can't dodge/parry/block while casting. It's not like you heal in your instance tank set. Anything that insta-gibs a priest *might* be enough time to get bubble off if your GCD doesn't lock you out of it, not unlike fade. If anything the lower threat modifier paladins get from healing prevents this from happening most of the time.

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Getting swatted for 12k by a raid mob still results in a dead holy paladin. Granted a cloth healer would have been hit for 25k by the same hit, but dead is dead.

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Bear in mind there may be broader mechanics changes that make this necessary. If they made changes that boost all melee DPS across the board, then maybe in that new environment warriors really did need a tweak or two. Wait and see the whole picture.

If that's the case, no other melee classes wheree tweaked.

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If that's the case, no other melee classes wheree tweaked.

We don't know anything yet. Patience.

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Getting swatted for 12k by a raid mob still results in a dead holy paladin. Granted a cloth healer would have been hit for 25k by the same hit, but dead is dead.

Just wanted to say...average paladin has what? 50% physical mitigation? 8k raid buffed? At least?

Lets use pre-nerf nightbane as an example, with 30% damage mitigation I was crushed for 9k. A similar boss, you would have lived on for at least one hit whereas a priest would have had 0 chance. Personally, I think survivability should be only a small factor in the overall scale of things...but it is a factor.

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That's a really good point Prae, I hadn't considered the effects of glancing with respect to rage generation, and I admit I was pretty curious why they might have modified that. Of course, cart before the horse and all, oh so patiently waiting out notes...

Honestly, my biggest concern re: the illumination nerf is that to be a good healer pallies are going to have to consumable up and gear properly- meaning that JoePug pally is going to have to gear up (mana/5 ahoy!) and the 20/0/41 spec's just generally in trouble. Illumination does scale insanely well, but at the low end I don't think it's generally out of line with what other healers are holding onto for 5mans.

I don't think there is a better or more elegant solution, but it's a shame that people who probably aren't the target are going to get hit. And I think that it's pretty likely that these are legitimate....

Now who wants to wildly speculate about the Darkmoon trinkets!?

....I'll be good, don't ban me.

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I am going to say currently, a paladin provides equal healing and more utility to a raid. In fact, a raid benefits having more then one paladin but an entire raid can get by with 1 Holy/Disc Priest and the rest are Shadow. That is all I am going to say about that.

The obvious problem with nerfing pallys rather than buffing holy/disc priests is that a lot of the priests that have switched are quite happy being shadow so all that happens is you get less healing on the raid or unhappy pallys and shadow priests (if latter are asked to respec for good of guild)

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The obvious problem with nerfing pallys rather than buffing holy/disc priests is that a lot of the priests that have switched are quite happy being shadow so all that happens is you get less healing on the raid or unhappy pallys and shadow priests (if latter are asked to respec for good of guild)

Speculation: Maybe they are setting up the field for a nerf to shadow priests. Something about Totally Awesome Uber Utility with Really Really good DPS seems a bit too off kilter.

But how can they buff Holy/Disc Priests to make them better then Paladins without...dare I say it...make them totally overpowered in PvP?

Right now their heals are strong, they are almost at one with the force, but it seems they have been attracted to the dark side of the force.

I am sorry, but if the problem is Paladins heal too well...the answer isn't to buff Holy Priests.

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Paladins only heal too well if you consider all healing to be single target healing.

They excel at that but if you compared any other facet of healing then they clearly wouldn't be classed as healing too well and would indeed merit a buff.

Holy/disc needs a bit of a buff relative to shadow if anything, pallys are fine.

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If that's the case, no other melee classes wheree tweaked.

Warriors also function in a manner that is largely unique. PTR it up and compare notes with your melee buddies. I'd rather have tweaks now than have warrior DPS get out of hand again.

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One more flight path I would like is an Alliance one in northern STV. Having to run through entire STV before you even have a mount is quite painful.

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Bear in mind there may be broader mechanics changes that make this necessary. If they made changes that boost all melee DPS across the board, then maybe in that new environment warriors really did need a tweak or two. Wait and see the whole picture.

I can only guess that reduction in quantity (or was it severity?) of glancing blows may result in a wash. You get more flurry from white hits, but you flurry for less.

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I still don't understand why they chose to reduce glancing blows instead of PvE Armor levels. Would've bumped up all melee just like Glancing Blows, but also Hunters, which Blizz clearly also realized needed some kind of buff.

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