Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Rosin

Cataclysm Discipline Priest Compendium

876 posts in this topic

Last night I decided to use the GHeal strategy that was posted in a few earlier posts.

I definitely see the benefits of using GHeal with the crit chance over spamming Heal/Shield.

I just feel like spamming Heal restricts me. I'm basically required to spam it on the tank to keep him alive, and because it only heals for about 3% of my party member's team.. having to switch between each ally and hit them with a heal is almost pointless as the cast time per heal value does nothing but warrant distress. :)

I'm not sure how others are effectively healing heroics as Disc.. but as of right now, I think I'm going to stick with the GHeal strategy. :)

I started out with heal+shield spam in non-heroics but found it insufficient throughput in heroics so I tried supplementing it with GHeal casts but eventually just switched entirely to GHeal+penance+shield and ignored heal completely. There is still a fair amount of burst present, have my tank drop 100k+ health in about 5 seconds quite often, and heal just doesn't have the HPS necessary to be viable. I now just get the tank up and then cancel cast GHeal until he takes a hit to HP large enough to warrant the GHeal or shield comes off CD.

Thinking of speccing out of SoS completely and putting the extra two points into inner sanctum or focused will (I don't know if that 10% health hit includes general raid wide AoEs or not) for the damage reduction and also also prioritizing crit over haste as well for the added divine aegis from huge GHeals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ingela's Rapture - Addons - Curse

Here's a lightweight addon I made back in WOTLK to track rapture cooldown, it's probably a lot more useful now though!

Does anyone have more information about the stealth buffs by the way? I tested my rapture before and I gained about ~6% mana back instead of 2,5%. A well timed shield now to procc rapture on every cooldown is a must now since you actually gain mana from it if the ~6% stays true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add that Archangel/Atonement fit really well into the ToT build playstyle. Instead of cast-canceling GH you can just spam smite during periods of low incoming dps and have pretty good efficiency with 30% cost reduction on Penance, cheap Atonement heals and one PW:S every 12-15 seconds. When you have to cast your first GH/PoH you pop AA/IF (even if you don't have a full stack) and top everyone off taking advantage of the 15% heal bonus and then go back to stacking Evangelism when things calm down.

You also have the option of pure Atonement healing since it's situationally really good during boss vulnerability phases. Ex: 40k+ Atonement heals (plus aegis procs) on Halfus when drakes are down. (World of Logs)

On fights where Atonement doesn't work due to boss hit box issues (ex: Magmaw) not being able to make full use of Archangel is quite noticeable though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So now that crit is determined to be better than haste, what would the stat priority be like?

Intellect > Spirit > Mastery = Crit > Haste ?

With intellect and spirit being standard gear choices in the sense that as you upgrade gear, those will upgrade. The only choices being in trinkets and gems. And even then spirit has its cap based on your own mana usage per fight.

So should we maintain similar levels of mastery and crit as they play off each other, or should still favor mastery whenever possible, and supplement it with a sizable amount of crit?

My calculations have shown that mastery is worse than crit for single target heals (other than Power Word: Shield) and that is supported by the stat weights in the OP.

To quantify this:

gh_crit_vs_mastery.png

This image shows my current character and the hps gains of Greater Heal with corresponding crit and mastery ratings from -300 to 300. As you can see the gradient relative to crit is much stepper than the one relative to mastery. (Numbers are without Grace) Taking into account the fact that we can't cast Power Word: Shield that often (at least not on tanks healed by Greater Heal) it is questionable if we shouldn't reforge from mastery to crit altogether. In addition to more hps you also get a higher uptime of Inspiration.

I have not mentioned hpm so far, because it scales linear with hps if you only exchange crit and mastery.

On the other hand mastery is stronger than crit for Prayer of Healing, but only if Divine Aegis is consumed and then not by far. (e.g. PoH on 5 targets with my character and 100 mastery more: 73.9 hps increase; 100 crit more: 62.5 hps increase)

Skimming through logs there are a lot of discpriests using mainly Prayer of Healing in a lot of fights, so I'm keeping some mastery until I've seen the fights myself.

Obviously the numbers will change once we get overall higher stats, but for now I think Int > Spi > Crit > Mastery > Haste is the way to go. Unless you are mostly raid healing with PoH and Divine Aegis is consumed, then I'd say mastery=crit. Strictly speaking haste delivers more hps than mastery, but I think we still need to watch our mana first and foremost.

I created a small discpriest model for MatLab, but I'm not sure if I can just post a link to a .zip file here, so just send me a PM if you're interested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like to add that Archangel/Atonement fit really well into the ToT build playstyle. Instead of cast-canceling GH you can just spam smite during periods of low incoming dps and have pretty good efficiency with 30% cost reduction on Penance, cheap Atonement heals and one PW:S every 12-15 seconds. When you have to cast your first GH/PoH you pop AA/IF (even if you don't have a full stack) and top everyone off taking advantage of the 15% heal bonus and then go back to stacking Evangelism when things calm down.

You also have the option of pure Atonement healing since it's situationally really good during boss vulnerability phases. Ex: 40k+ Atonement heals (plus aegis procs) on Halfus when drakes are down. (World of Logs)

On fights where Atonement doesn't work due to boss hit box issues (ex: Magmaw) not being able to make full use of Archangel is quite noticeable though.

I actually think this will be the healing style I try out as well. However, I'm debating if I want to keep my points in Soul Warding in a build like this. I'd either move them to Surge of Light or Darkness if I dropped it, since I find myself bubbling far less than I used to. Having a three second cooldown on the shield might be perfectly fine, though I'm still not sure you'd end up smiting enough for a 6% chance of a instant flash heal to be worth the points. I still might take SoL over Darkness though, given the feedback here on the worth of haste for this kind of build.

I wanted to open up the Primary Glyph discussion a bit more. Obviously Penance is the absolute no-brainer, but the next two I've been debating on. With the dungeons I've run so far, I seem to be getting a lot more mileage out of PoH than shielding (not to mention the obvious mana issues with bubble spamming). With PoH being our primary group heal, I think dropping the Power Word: Shield glyph for the PoH one might prove more beneficial. The added heal on the end of a Shield is barely noticeable as it is, and a little more healing for those raid damage periods would be nice.

Also, for 5-mans I've also stopped using the Barrier glyph in favor of Renew. In a raid environment, where you have more healers than just yourself, I think glyphing Barrier would be preferred. For 5-mans though, I find myself using Renew + Shield FAR more to bring up DPS so I don't lose Grace on the tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wanted to open up the Primary Glyph discussion a bit more. Obviously Penance is the absolute no-brainer, but the next two I've been debating on. With the dungeons I've run so far, I seem to be getting a lot more mileage out of PoH than shielding (not to mention the obvious mana issues with bubble spamming). With PoH being our primary group heal, I think dropping the Power Word: Shield glyph for the PoH one might prove more beneficial. The added heal on the end of a Shield is barely noticeable as it is, and a little more healing for those raid damage periods would be nice.

PoH glyph is defiantly trumping PW:S on most encounters. WHile shield is often a sizable portion of my healing breakdown, the subsequent heal from the glyph is not because generally in this healing environment I am throwing them only on a few targets, primarily tanks and they tend to be topped off a lot of the time anyway. PoH however is very consistent as my top heal along with DA. I have a World of Logs here from Ascendant Council 25N tonight. The last "wipe" is actually a kill but this fight is bugged on WOL. The previous attempts I was using PW:S glyph. Penance/PoH/Barrier seems to be the best glyph set. Also dispel magic is a great major as there is a LOT of dispelling in this content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is good to know, I'm only getting into the raid encounters and the ones that I have attempted either have random damage which tends statistically not to repeat on the same target (Magmaw) or ticks too quickly for PoH Aegis to be useful (Magmatron's AoE).

Magmaws Lava Spew hits in waves, 3 big ticks to be exact so DA gets used on that. After Lava Spew 3-4 people get hit by random fire balls every few seconds, so usually the leftover DA will get used again.

This begs one question that I haven't seen asked in these forums yet. The obvious advantage of AoE healing as a Discipline Priest is that we have no reliance upon positioning, which I have found to be very advantageous on fights that do not allow for this, whereas each of the other healing classes (and specs, in the case of Holy) require close stacking in order to fully utilize their most effective heals. Assuming that one's goal is to maintain the maximum effective HPS would it be worthwhile to have a holy offspec encounters that are friendly to group stacking?

If there's no other Holy Priests, yeah. I stay Disc through every encounter because we have 2 awesome Holy Priests with us usually. Stacking fights are an awesome time for PW:B use. Like on Valiona+Theralion, when we stack for Blackout ever 2 minutes, a Pally uses Divine Guardian on the first stack and then I PW:B the 2nd, then another Pally Divine Guardian 3rd stack and I PW:B the 4th. So PW:B is pretty damn powerful on stack fights, which is like almost half the content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have two (unrelated) questions now.

Firstly, does the recent 'stealth buff' to Rapture, whereby it gives 6% mana back instead of 2.5%, have any effect on the choice of weapon enchants? The OP seems to have recommended Power Torrent prior to the buff, so with the buff, will it now be far superior to Heartsong? I don't really understand how Int procs in the middle of battle can really compare to a straight-forward regen proc like Heartsong, but you maths guys always get it right, so I think it's worth enquiring and re-addressing.

Secondly, and this is more a of a play-style thing, how effectively can I be the 'tank healer' in raids now? By this, I mean, can I keep one tank alive by myself? Can I keep multiple tanks alive by myself? Should I keeping up a tank and helping on the raid, or will this leave me short on mana? The way I've been envisioning it is that I'll be solely responsible for my one tank, such that no one else should really have to heal him, and I won't really have to heal someone else. However, I'm not sure how realistic this is. It might be that I'll need help. It might be that I'll be doing far less than I should be contributing - I'm not sure, so I'm looking for some insight into how much I should be able to offer without OoMing in the first two minutes of the fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Secondly, and this is more a of a play-style thing, how effectively can I be the 'tank healer' in raids now? By this, I mean, can I keep one tank alive by myself? Can I keep multiple tanks alive by myself? Should I keeping up a tank and helping on the raid, or will this leave me short on mana? The way I've been envisioning it is that I'll be solely responsible for my one tank, such that no one else should really have to heal him, and I won't really have to heal someone else. However, I'm not sure how realistic this is. It might be that I'll need help. It might be that I'll be doing far less than I should be contributing - I'm not sure, so I'm looking for some insight into how much I should be able to offer without OoMing in the first two minutes of the fight.

You should be able to keep a tank up by yourself, but I find it is generally better all around to AoE heal though PoH or Atonement or both depending on the encounter and just keep inspiration up on your tank with Penance and PoM while the hots and splash heal/smart heals/HoTs from your atonement and the other healers in the raid will take care of all but the most grievous hits. If your tank or raid is taking heavy damage you can consume your evangelism for the AA buff and go to town with the GH/FH to get your tank up or PoH for the raid. When it gets real hairy pop that AA with your PI and enjoy massive hps while remaining fairly efficient.

As far as healing multiple tanks. Not really a good idea. You can heal one tank and support heal another, but losing grace on your tank is never a good idea. You should only use penance and your Heal/FH/GH on your primary target unless its an emergency save. I Like to toss sheilds and PoMs and an occasional renew onto the other tank. If you are using mana cooldowns and your potion correctly and are in decent gear then you should not have too much mana issues. Healer and general raid communication helps a lot. My resto shaman always gives me a 3-2-1 count before dropping tide so that I can pop my spirit trinket first and the shadow priests or holy priests always announce when they are mana hymning so that I can align cooldowns ect. If you look at the log I posted a couple up you can see I am primary heal on the warrior tank but also doing substantial raid healing and maintaining enough mana to finish the encounter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious how many disc priests have time to smite/archangel? It seems like i have so much going on that I don't even have time to target whatever we're fighting and smite to 5 stacks. Is it more useful on raids? I'm hard pressed just keeping people alive in heroics.

I'm using the attonement/archangel build posted but I'm thinking of switching to Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - dropping all of the smite related talents and dropping SoS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm curious how many disc priests have time to smite/archangel? It seems like i have so much going on that I don't even have time to target whatever we're fighting and smite to 5 stacks. Is it more useful on raids? I'm hard pressed just keeping people alive in heroics.

I'm finding that, while there are burst segments in a lot of heroic fights, a lot of them also have downtime where you can get everyone topped off enough. Smiting there is good - especially if you mouseover heal, so the boss is always targeted. Also, there are a number of burn fights where, the longer you take, the more healing is necessary. Helping with the DPS at the start can make a significant difference. Same with add fights - getting them down fast helps the healing burden a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've personally found no fights in any heroics where Atonement healing was worth the time, nevermind the talent points (or the glyph). Swithcing over to a GHeal/PoH centric style was simplier and way better for my mana. Also, a couple general tips to go along with this playstyle for heroics:

1. Macro Power Infusion to include target=self, you should be using this often, anytime you're going to have to spam at least 3 or 4 big heals in a row, and you don't want to accidentally cast it on anyone else.

2. I macro'd Inner Focus on to every spell it affects, and found this to work very well, you want to use this everytime it's up.

3. Put binding heal on your bar, and learn to love it, in heroics there're a lot of times where your top priority is going to be saving yourself and the tank and the HPM and HPS of BHeal > GHeal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm curious how many disc priests have time to smite/archangel? It seems like i have so much going on that I don't even have time to target whatever we're fighting and smite to 5 stacks. Is it more useful on raids? I'm hard pressed just keeping people alive in heroics.

I'm using the attonement/archangel build posted but I'm thinking of switching to Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - dropping all of the smite related talents and dropping SoS.

With good CC in heroics, I find that I've got time to smite often enough to get a 5 stack before the next Archangel CD. Most boss fights seem to have a "high damage" phase and a "recovery" phase where you can Smite to keep the tank topped off and recover some mana.

Edit: I use a 33/8/0 Atonement spec. I also use macros to allow me to target the tank (or any other friendly target) and continue Smiting, along with mouseover macros for my heals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst reviewing this thread I came to the opinion that I wanted to trial the IF-GH style currently identified as a viable spec by several posters, as I am having difficulty providing sufficient throughput in Heroics with Smite/Atonement.

The talent build concensus for this build, created from reviewing the armory of several posters and from page one, is 31/08/00 +2 with the remaining two points being spread far and wide.

During this time I wondered if there was any merit in placing these two points into Improved Renew and using the Glyph of Renew to further boost the power of Renew! For maximum efficiency one would have to ensure haste was above 12.5 %, to allow the additional 5th tick. Final Talents 31/10/00

I downloaded the spreadsheet and entered the numbers and think Renew became one of the most efficient HPM spells in the spellbook. I say think as this was a first attempt at 'working the numbers' in a spreadsheet as opposed to 'how it feels'!

This in turn would provide a useful heal; both on the move and to throw on the DPS to prevent moving the Grace stack (with the added bonus that the DPS will see their health rising rather than being protected by a shield and still remaining low).

What I'd like to know is if this a good idea in general or are there better talent point choices?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given the generous Rapture change (2/4/6% mana return), a fully consumed shield will return 4800 mana to a priest with a mana pool of 80k (the very beginning of raiding). Fully talented with MA/IW, this means a mana gain of nearly 2000 mana per consumed shield. This will completely change talent choices (MA/IW become less crucial) and play styles (shield spamming becomes viable aoe "healing").

On paper this seems too big a buff, but for priests struggling for mana it seems Disc has a clear advantage (despite the Holy Concentration buff for Holy). Though the throughput isn't ideal, with these numbers a Disc priest could maintain a Shield/Mending/Heal tank-healing rotation indefinitely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
/snip This will completely change talent choices (MA/IW become less crucial) and play styles (shield spamming becomes viable aoe "healing"). /snip

/snip Though the throughput isn't ideal, with these numbers a Disc priest could maintain a Shield/Mending/Heal tank-healing rotation indefinitely. /snip

First, with regard to AoE shield spamming. This still isn't viable as a prolonged mechanic. Even with the buff under normal conditions you will only get one proc per the ICD. That means the vast majority of shields are not mana free and are a massive drain on resources.

Second, maintaining the use of PW:S on the tank has not been an issue at any point that I am aware of mana wise. This buff will make it such that we get more mana to work with overall when using the PW:S the tank on CD approach and will increase the value of reducing the WS debuff on the tank. Using only the tank the maximal Rapture returns are not possible without the WS time reduction. Additionally, if you are referring to Heal in the "Shield/Mending/Heal" rotation you will struggle with throughput without using GHeal .... Being able to Heal indefinitely isn't very valuable and possible before this buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Given the generous Rapture change (2/4/6% mana return), a fully consumed shield will return 4800 mana to a priest with a mana pool of 80k (the very beginning of raiding). Fully talented with MA/IW, this means a mana gain of nearly 2000 mana per consumed shield. This will completely change talent choices (MA/IW become less crucial) and play styles (shield spamming becomes viable aoe "healing").

Rapture still has a 12 second ICD. Shield is still an inefficient heal without Rapture, so you will only want to shield once every 12 seconds if possible. Play styles will not change, but mana sure did get a lot better for disc (and holy).

(EDIT: Sorry, Vherna beat me to it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PoH glyph is defiantly trumping PW:S on most encounters. WHile shield is often a sizable portion of my healing breakdown, the subsequent heal from the glyph is not because generally in this healing environment I am throwing them only on a few targets, primarily tanks and they tend to be topped off a lot of the time anyway. PoH however is very consistent as my top heal along with DA. I have a World of Logs here from Ascendant Council 25N tonight. The last "wipe" is actually a kill but this fight is bugged on WOL. The previous attempts I was using PW:S glyph. Penance/PoH/Barrier seems to be the best glyph set. Also dispel magic is a great major as there is a LOT of dispelling in this content.

I checked your WoL that you posted, and you put up some very impressive sustained healing numbers. However, when I look at your gear, I see that you have reforged pretty much every item to haste, with the exception of a few items that were lacking spirit. My understanding is that the current consensus on stat weights places haste last in terms of secondary stats. Why make this change? Evidently something is working for you and I wouldn't mind knowing what that is. Is it because you lack darkness?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My understanding is that the current consensus on stat weights places haste last in terms of secondary stats. Why make this change? Evidently something is working for you and I wouldn't mind knowing what that is. Is it because you lack darkness?

That conversation was regarding single target healing specifically. If you read carefully you'll find a couple of references to haste still being valuable for PoH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When considering the efficiency of GHeal it's important to include Train of Thought. By casting GHeal instead of Heal you can use Inner Focus every 6 casts instead of every 18 (approximately, depending on your haste), that bonus pretty much erases any difference in HPM between the two. {snip}

This is perhaps a stupid question, but has anyone given thought to taking both SoS AND ToT? The way I see it, you can take the 2 points from Inner Sanctum, and be able to benefit from both styles. When incoming damage is low, you can spam Heal/PW:S, and perhaps proc a few Fheals with SoL, and proc Rapture more often. When damage is high, you can switch to Gheal+IF, and when a damage spike comes, it's likely PW:S will be available shortly thanks to SoS. I tried this out yesterday, and anecdotally it seems to be flexible in terms of single target healing (no parses to back this up, sorry!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rapture has a 12s ICD. Weakened Soul is 15s. Even one Heal with only 1/2 SoS will bring Weakened to 13 seconds. Bringing it lower than that won't increase your Rapture returns, and may in fact be detrimental considering Weakened at least gives you a crit bonus if Grace drops. If you don't have a Rapture timer, you may also end up shielding before 12 seconds has passed, thus delaying your next Rapture by a lot.

I recommend going 1/2 SoS. Get a Rapture UI timer, and you can increase Rapture's activation rate from every ~15 to every ~13 seconds. That's 300 mp5 right there for one talent point, assuming 100k mana pool. Any more is pointless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Archangel actually a mana gain? I'm not sure exactly how it works since it doesn't appeal too much to me, but it seems like it offers 5% mana when used at 5 stacks of Evangelism. My mana in heroics is about 83k (ilvl 341), which is 4150 mana back, right? Doesn't it cost more than this to cast the 5 Smites needed to stack up Evangelism?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is Archangel actually a mana gain? I'm not sure exactly how it works since it doesn't appeal too much to me, but it seems like it offers 5% mana when used at 5 stacks of Evangelism. My mana in heroics is about 83k (ilvl 341), which is 4150 mana back, right? Doesn't it cost more than this to cast the 5 Smites needed to stack up Evangelism?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Assuming that you're casting these smites with atonement, these 5 smites are taking the place of heals you would be casting instead. That's mana returned for those heals that you wouldn't have gotten back if you were just casting heal. So it's innaccurate to call it a mana gain, but it is more of a mana conservation strategy.

Additionally, the Evangelism buff can be used to reduce the mana cost of Penance, although it's dependent on the situation to determine if it's better to use Penance at 5 stacks of Evangelism for the mana savings, or immediately after Archangel for the healing buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be my lack of attention, but in a heroic I noticed that multiple shields consumed at the same time didn't give multiple rapture returns [like it used to in WotLK] but only one. Since I can't try it right now... Is this how it supposed to work or did I just see wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I checked your WoL that you posted, and you put up some very impressive sustained healing numbers. However, when I look at your gear, I see that you have reforged pretty much every item to haste, with the exception of a few items that were lacking spirit. My understanding is that the current consensus on stat weights places haste last in terms of secondary stats. Why make this change? Evidently something is working for you and I wouldn't mind knowing what that is. Is it because you lack darkness?

Haste is defiantly working out well for encounters that can accommodate heavy Atonement/PoH healing. The reasoning for the reforging strategy I am using is primarily due to the gear that I have had available to me. If you look, much of it is mastery or crit gear which put my haste a bit under budget for my needs. With Goblin racial I am running a little over 14% haste in raids. After tonights Cho'gall (WoL) kill I went and respec'd and dropped Train of thought for 2/3 darkness. I wanted to look through at least the second weeks logs before I decided if ToT was worth it for the types of healing I would be doing. My penance and GH usage was just not worth it when I looked at my HpM on each fight. With this change I'm looking at a pretty good stat balance with 16.5% raid buffed haste, 23.05% crit +10 on tank or whoever has WS/Grace and almost 12.5 mastery or 31% absorb increase. Good mana CD usage is key to huge sustained. You need your healing team to coordinate with you and call out when they plan to use mana CDs (HoH - Tide) and then use your own CDs with theirs for the best return.

Is Archangel actually a mana gain? I'm not sure exactly how it works since it doesn't appeal too much to me, but it seems like it offers 5% mana when used at 5 stacks of Evangelism. My mana in heroics is about 83k (ilvl 341), which is 4150 mana back, right? Doesn't it cost more than this to cast the 5 Smites needed to stack up Evangelism?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Best way to go is to never consume your evangelism unless you do not plan to go back to smiting again any time soon. Pretty much when you know a large amount of damage is incoming on either the tank or the raid and you will need to be using PoH/Gheal ect for at least 10-15s. If it's just a small spike of damage I tend to just cast a Shield>Penance>Gheal as needed or a PoH then back to smiting before the stack drops. If you pop AA to cast 1-2heals then go back to smiting you are wasting more mana and doing less healing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.