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Consider

Unholy DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, The Missing Frame

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I've read the first post and Consider mentions a soft cap for haste, saying it's not reachable and we should not worry about it. These days I'm around 32% haste in fight. My problem is that I'm having a hard time dumping runic power during heroism. Runes come off the cooldown pretty quickly and I'm really wondering where a possible haste soft cap would be. At the end of WotLK my knowledge was that haste had a vague softcap somewhere north of 30%. Am I misremembering something, have the basic assumptions about being GCD capped changed without me noticing? Should I ignore overcapping runic power during heroism? Seems like a waste to me.

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IMHO, there is just no way not to waste either RP or Runes during Bloodlust. I run around roughly at 2k haste rating so whenever I am RP capped due to heroism/AMS Soaking/etc, I prioritize DC if my pet is not transformed and SS if my pet is already transformed.

I'm not perfectly sure if this is the ideal approach but I've been pretty successful in my raids.

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I've read the first post and Consider mentions a soft cap for haste, saying it's not reachable and we should not worry about it. These days I'm around 32% haste in fight. My problem is that I'm having a hard time dumping runic power during heroism. Runes come off the cooldown pretty quickly and I'm really wondering where a possible haste soft cap would be. At the end of WotLK my knowledge was that haste had a vague softcap somewhere north of 30%. Am I misremembering something, have the basic assumptions about being GCD capped changed without me noticing? Should I ignore overcapping runic power during heroism? Seems like a waste to me.

The reason you are seeing such a high values of haste is due to Unholy Presence haste being included in the character tab, while during wotlk it wasnt.

Still, you might be slightly gcd capped during heroism/UF/heavy AMS soaking, but during those times just prioritize correctly and try to have close to max resources when they end to have good sustained dps while all the haste buffs/free RP ends.

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Major

  • [iTEM]Glyph of Anti-Magic Shell[/iTEM]
  • [iTEM]Glyph of Pestilence[/iTEM]
  • [iTEM]Glyph of Blood Boil[/iTEM]

As far as major glyphs go, the choices are rather straightforward largely because no other majors affect Unholy in the least, be it single target or AoE. Thus, you may as well take AMS, which is actually quite decent, and then Pestilence and BB, despite the fact that the latter two are only of value on AoE (and not worth a ton even then).

As we all know, healing has become much more mana-intensive during Cataclysm. [iTEM]Glyph of Anti-Magic Shell[/iTEM] is useful in most situations, whereas [iTEM]Glyph of Pestilence[/iTEM] and [iTEM]Glyph of Blood Boil[/iTEM] often are not.

If I were to choose one of the two to sacrifice in order to add in [iTEM]Glyph of Dark Succor[/iTEM] for the purpose of self-healing (which, I realize, would thwart my overall DPS using Death Strike by throwing off my runes), which should I not use?

For the sake of versatility in terms of glyph selection, I've been considering dropping both of them for heroic 5 man dungeons, due to tanks not moving the "active" targets far enough away from the crowd controlled targets, and I don't think I'd miss them all that much in terms of overall DPS lost, be it in 5 man heroics or raids. However, the only glyphs that leaves me with that have any application whatsoever to Unholy are [iTEM]Glyph of Dark Succor[/iTEM], [iTEM]Glyph of Chains of Ice[/iTEM], and [iTEM]Glyph of Anti-Magic Shell[/iTEM]. Running a simulator is one thing, but the practical application of not incidentally breaking crowd controls makes this seem like the most optimal scenario for versatility's sake. Also, in rare occasions where Outbreak is on cooldown, and an add needs to be slowed, having a direct damage portion of CoI can be useful in lieu of an Icy Touch.

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In my unholy raid spec I drop the Blood boil glyph because I really rarely find that I need extra range on adds such as Maloriak's for Blood boil, and instead use Succor, other than AMS and Pest. For 5mans you are right in that both those glyphs you mention are detrimental anytime you are using CC pretty much, but you rarely need much now with a competent group.

It would be another thing if Bloodboil glyph would actually contribute increased dps in many scenarios, but since it doesn't in a real situation thus far in my raiding experience, I find I have more use of Succor on for example Chimaeron or virtually any situation where the healers are visibly struggling.

It could also be that there is a difference between 10man and 25man in the 'best choice' though, given fewer healers/fewer targets vs more healers/more targets (I assume) respectively. And also, as always one can simply bring Dust of disappearance and swap accordingly. :)

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Glyph selection is fluid and should reflect the current fight. Maloriak favors Blood Boil and Pestilence whereas Chimaeron for instance favors Dark Succor which should allow you to stay alive in phase two until Double-Attack. Keep adjusting your glyphs according to the current situation and you should be fine.

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Using Glyph of AMS on Chimaeron also allows you to immune two Caustic Slime debuffs if used at the right time during Feud rather than only 1 with an unglyped AMS.

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WeaponDPS+Speed are one of the most important things. the t2 weapon also had increased Strength.

These factors outweight the secondary stat problem with resilience and it's better to have a t2 axe or something as an 359 sword :)

In my simulations of all DK DPS specs WeaponDPS places @ 1 with an average of 7,0. Other says its 9, other says its 6. But 2 of your important stats are increased, so u can say simple t2>359

A simple PvE to reach weapon is the mace which drops@magmaw hc. nice to have 4 unholy & BiS Frost 2h

greetz toxiQ

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I encountered a weird bug today while doing HM Chimeron.

http://i.imgur.com/bPDUQ.jpg

I noticed this when they called to stop DPS. My pet had been both transformed and had a stack of shadow infusion on him. The time left on each buff appear to be equal implying that the last shadow infusion and dark transformation occurred at roughly the same time. I was a bit distracted by the fight to open up my pet tab and look at the damage range to confirm this bug. If you look carefully, both the buff bar on the pet's target and my tell me when addon is detecting a stack of shadow infusion.

Mainly wondering if anyone has seen this as well. I haven't been able to replicate it on a dummy.

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I encountered a weird bug today while doing HM Chimeron.

http://i.imgur.com/bPDUQ.jpg

I noticed this when they called to stop DPS. My pet had been both transformed and had a stack of shadow infusion on him. The time left on each buff appear to be equal implying that the last shadow infusion and dark transformation occurred at roughly the same time. I was a bit distracted by the fight to open up my pet tab and look at the damage range to confirm this bug. If you look carefully, both the buff bar on the pet's target and my tell me when addon is detecting a stack of shadow infusion.

Mainly wondering if anyone has seen this as well. I haven't been able to replicate it on a dummy.

Noticed this several times, always discounted it as a power auras bug!

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I encountered a weird bug today while doing HM Chimeron.

http://i.imgur.com/bPDUQ.jpg

I noticed this when they called to stop DPS. My pet had been both transformed and had a stack of shadow infusion on him. The time left on each buff appear to be equal implying that the last shadow infusion and dark transformation occurred at roughly the same time. I was a bit distracted by the fight to open up my pet tab and look at the damage range to confirm this bug. If you look carefully, both the buff bar on the pet's target and my tell me when addon is detecting a stack of shadow infusion.

Mainly wondering if anyone has seen this as well. I haven't been able to replicate it on a dummy.

Cast 5deathcoils and instead of morphing your pet you cast another deathcoil. Right before it acually hits the target you dt your pet and viola dt with 1stack of shadow infusion. This is only possible if the boss is large enough, that means the flighttime of your deathcoil is long enough. You can easily test it on a boss dummy.

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Cast 5deathcoils and instead of morphing your pet you cast another deathcoil. Right before it acually hits the target you dt your pet and viola dt with 1stack of shadow infusion. This is only possible if the boss is large enough, that means the flighttime of your deathcoil is long enough. You can easily test it on a boss dummy.

Using this train of thought would we therefore be able to do something like the following?

Thoughts?

#showtooltip Dark Transformation

/cast [target=harm,nodead] Death Coil

/cast Dark Transformation

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DT is part of the GCD, so the only way that "bug" works is if the DC missile takes longer than 1 sec to reach the target. So if you are meleeing the boss right on his hit box, it won't work. I guess we have to either shoot the DC at a target far away or move far from the boss ourselves, or tell the ghoul to move far then shoot the DC to heal it ad then DT it.

Fights would get more complicated IMO.

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The above mentioned method is quite easy to pull of on bosses with big hitboxes like Al'Akir with a high "attachment point". By attechment point i mean the point where projectiles are flying at.

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One thing I did notice with the Dark Transformation, is that if you cast a Death Coil right when a 5stack Shadow Infusion buff expires, so that your pet will lose his 5 stack and gain a new 1 stack buff, the server doesn't recognize this as a new stack and the popup graphic will stay (if you are using Blizzard default power auras substitute). Also on your hotbar it will still show up as if DT is castable even though your pet has only 1 stack (this causes it to interfere with 3rd party addons as well, which are typically programmed based on a "is castable" trigger). Attempting to cast DT in such a scenario will do nothing but waste a GCD depending on latency.

Though this situation occurs only rarely it can really throw off your concentration and waste a few GCDs on trying in vain to cast DT. The issue resolves itself when you get a new 5stack buff and cast a legit DT.

#showtooltip Dark Transformation

/cast [target=harm,nodead] Death Coil

/cast Dark Transformation

Your conditional statement is off on the second line. [target=harm,nodead] will try to cast it to a nearby target with a name that starts with Harm. You can leave that out and just use [harm,nodead] to do what you want it to do.

That being said, what are you trying to accomplish with this macro? At the moment it looks like it will interfere with DT casting at best, and waste RP on DCs with a 5 Shadow Infusion stack at worst. If anything I would place them in opposite order (that is, /cast DT before /cast DC) so you will never give up potential DT uptime (it will attempt to cast DT, and only if that fails it will do a DC). Seems like the more logical choice to me.

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Hello everyone, the past few days I been testing out gargoyle to see how much it is affected by haste, but there seems to be a problem once my gargoyle's strike reaches 2 sec cast it seems not to benefit from haste giving a very constant number of 15 casts per summon.

This 15 casts did not vary from 35% haste, I was able to get 15 casts, I even tried having 150% haste and it was still only 15 casts. Is this supposed to happen?

Another thing I was wondering if it would be probably be more beneficial to have the gargoyle melee with higher haste than to actually cast, is it possible to force your gargoyle to melee?

Any feedback is welcome thank you

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So, yeah. To be completely honest, I simply don't care enough about the game and its eternally transient balance to give this thread (and the Frost one, for that matter) the upkeep they deserve. Although I'll continue to theorycraft and what have you for my own sake, it just takes way too much time and energy to put all that information here: typing it all up, formatting it all, spelling out every last little detail such that anyone and everyone can understand it. I mean, the information - what spec is best, what rotation to use, what's best in slot, and so on - are easy to figure out (for me anyways). It's simply then putting all of it into the post which is a large bother. I just don't have the motivation to continue to do that latter part (although I'll continue with the first, of course!).

As such, I will no longer be updating the OP, and respectfully request that this thread be locked and that someone start a new one (so as to prevent any confusion as time goes on).

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Unlocking this for general Unholy discussion until a suitable replacement available. See the sticky thread if you are interested.

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While it doesn't immediately help with the aforementioned need in this forum, I thought this might be somewhat related.

I made a guide thread Tuesday on our official class forums at BNET and it was recommended to me that I also post of its existence here. Currently there is a Tanking guide and their equivalent of the 'Simple Q/A' thread stickied, but nothing is pinned for PVE Unholy or Frost. I thought it was interesting that there wasn't one anymore, but kind of understandable. Trying to write something cogent given the expectations and caliber of players who participate on EJ/BNET is definitely a challenge. I have tried very earnestly to organize the information accurately and neatly, despite the limitations of Blizzard's BB code.

BNET: Unholy PVE Guide (4.0.6)

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If anyone is interested in an Unholy guide that will be kept up to date until our dear Consider's replacement comes there is a pretty nice one on Ensidia/For the Horde's website Manaflask

The one issue with it is that its in German. So I suggest you get google chrome which will automatically translate it into English for you. The english may be a bit rough and you may need to read it over 1-2 times to understand it, but its a very well done and pretty accurate guide. The link is below

Manaflask - Unholy DPS - Cataclysm 4.0.6 - posted by Sheya

I would favorite it because it isnt exactly the easiest to find :(

If you wish to download google chrome here is the link:

Google Chrome - Download

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For fights like heroic halfus and Maloriak is anyone going with the AoE guide lines(DnD and IT glyphs with frost presence)? I'm doing decent DPS on those encounters but I think I could squeeze out some more numbers.

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Well for Maloriak yes, but for Halfus it really depeneds on how your guild really does it.

Another thing...think about it, your dps will be loss when you single target Halfus down..because of the glyph changes and such. But thats my opinion. Good Luck!

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