Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jessamy

Shaman: Simple Questions / Simple Answers -- Cataclysm Edition

117 posts in this topic

Few resto questions from a beginner shammie:

1. How to raid heal in a fight when raid takes a lot of damage? (eg: Maloriak). Is riptide/UE worth casting when all raid is hurt, or do you just stick to HR/CH? Should I worry about keeping 3 riptides up, or is it okay to use CH immediately after Riptide?

2. How good is [item]Jar of Ancient Remedies[/item] for resto shamans? Is there a list of 359 BiS items? Is there such a thing as too much spirit? :).

3. I read in the Resto thread that Int>Haste>Spirit>Crit>Mastery, but are there some aproximative coefficients for that? Eg: Is [iTeM]Enchant Gloves - Greater Mastery[/iTEM] better than [iTEM]Enchant Gloves - Haste[/iTEM]?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Should I worry about keeping 3 riptides up, or is it okay to use CH immediately after Riptide?

If there is a big source of damage coming up that you can clearly foresee and you can afford to waste the GCDs before it happens, then I guess placing riptides around the raid, maybe even storing 1 Unleash Earthbind powerup, and then shooting Chain Heals around is a very nice thing. Especially if you cast 1 CH and then use another one right after with Nature's Swifteness.

Don't think there are a lot of situations where you can behave like that, but when you do it's a good way to cure a lot of raid damage in a short time, I guess?

In all other situations the answer would probably just be a "no", just stick to CH and single target heals accordingly, without bothering about the powerups mechanics.

3. I read in the Resto thread that Int>Haste>Spirit>Crit>Mastery

I think the current guide doesn't mention it, except briefly in the glyphs section, but if you're just starting out with raid and your gear is still bad, I think you might want to put Spirit above Haste in that tier list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Few questions:

1: The tooltip for Windfury weapon says "Each hit has a 20% chance of dealing additional damage equal to two extra attacks with X extra attack power". Does this mean that those are not 2 seperate attacks and do not increase your odds of procing on hit abilities? Do they even count as 1 extra swing or is it just straight up bonus damage on one swing?

2: What is the PPM rate of the various weapon skills, flametongue, frostband, etc?

2a: Are PPM rates calculated using normalized numbers? For example, if I am using a 1.4 speed oh dagger, is the ppm for frostbrand calculated using the daggers normalized 1.7 speed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I correct that Glyph of FT doesn't affect SS and LL? They are melee strikes so I don't think they're "spells" as per Glyph of FT, although they do require mana to cast?

If you're running FT/FT (with a caster weapon) does this mean that Glyph of FT would give you 4% on roughly 60% of your dps rather than Glyph of SS giving 10% crit on roughly 12% of your dps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Am I correct that Glyph of FT doesn't affect SS and LL? They are melee strikes so I don't think they're "spells" as per Glyph of FT, although they do require mana to cast?

If you're running FT/FT (with a caster weapon) does this mean that Glyph of FT would give you 4% on roughly 60% of your dps rather than Glyph of SS giving 10% crit on roughly 12% of your dps?

Why would you swap SS for FT when you could swap Feral Spirits for FT and gain even more dps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking for an addon that will track the amount of seconds left on a riptide that i've thrown out and display this time left within grid without taking up the center icon as I use that for debuffs. I'd also like to know an addon that can show me which targets on grid have power word shield through use of an icon rather then a box and the timeleft on it? Is this possible?

These all need to be grid friendly and displayed within the grid box! Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know what spirit value Glyph of Water Shield equates to?

EDIT:

~315 Spirit at 4500 Intellect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello I read the enhancement thread where it said i need 26 expertise to reach the exp cap. I now got 26 exp in my stats-list and in these 26 points the 8 points from Unleashed Rage are included, which means that my gear gives me 18 points of expertise. Now when i mouseover the expertise it still says i got a 7,5% parry chance on lvl 88 and ??. My question is. Do i need 26 hit cap plus the 8 points which ends up at 34 expertise or do i just don't minde the remaining 7,5 % of parry ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parries only occur when you are facing the mob head on. The expertise is there to mitigate any dodges that could occur while you are behind the mob attacking. 26 is the cap you want to reach including the 8 from talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not asked but still good to know: While a default Grounding Totem doesn't work in the Omnitron Encounter vs. Arcanotron's nuke, a glyphed one actually works and reflects the spell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The signature spell of the cataclysm resto shaman is (besides the obvious Mana tide totem) healing rain right now. It provides a huge amount of healing when you get your raidmembers to clumb up (especially with it proccing earthliving).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not asked but still good to know: While a default Grounding Totem doesn't work in the Omnitron Encounter vs. Arcanotron's nuke, a glyphed one actually works and reflects the spell.

Default Grounding Totem works just fine for absorbing Arcanotron's nuke. As a side note, Grounding Totem also absorbs Blackout from Valiona. A shaman in each group makes her phase (more) trivial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, with patch 4.0.6, [iTEM]59520[/iTEM]'s proc will be changed to 680 weapon damage. With this change, can I assume that with a up time of 20% (10 sec duration 50 sec ICD), my EP for this trinket would be:

(321* AGI EP) + (0.2*(680(MH EP + OH EP))?

Or should I just wait for the sim to include the new version to figure it out? Thanks in advance.

P.S: Also is there a quick and dirty way to calculate [iTEM]62051[/iTEM]'s EP or is that possible only through the sim as I'm trying to compare between the two. I know it scales with Mastery but perhaps some quick math to calculate it's worth from the tooltip (with mastery included)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mengus's logs have been indicating that the proc only applies to auto-attacks, not to melee specials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elemental question:

Assuming LvB is on CD, you start casting LB when Lava Surge procs. Is it better to finish casting LB, or just cancel the LB and cast the LvB?

I assume there will be some kind of individual breakpoint, which will prob depend on your different stats, but a general rule of thumb would be nice to have

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In theory there is a point where it makes sense to abort a LB for a LvB, but in any practical situation, the time window is just too small. Never abort a started cast (unless you have to move from fire ofc).

Math:

Deciding what spell is better is usually based on DPET (damage per execution time): dpet = total expected damage / cast time

If you abort an LB, the time you already spent casting it is wasted and has to be added to LvB's casttime to get its effective execution time.

LB damge: (lb_basedmg + spellpower * lb_coeff) * (1 + 1.09 * crit) * (1 + 0.75 * overload) + 0.6 * (ls_basedmg + spellpower * ls_coeff) * (1 + 1.09 * crit)

LB casttime: 2 / (1 + haste)

LB DPET: LB damage / LB casttime

LvB damage: (lvb_basedmg + spellpower * lvb_coeff) * 2.8316 * (1 + 0.75 * overload)

LvB casttime: 1.5 / (1 + haste)

LvB DPET: LvB damage / (LvB casttime + aborttime)

If aborting LB for LvB is an dps gain, then we need to meet the following criteria:

LvB DPET > LB DPET

Put in your stats, solve for aborttime and you have the time window in which aborting LB is a dps increase. It's usually to small a window to bother with it though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why would you swap SS for FT when you could swap Feral Spirits for FT and gain even more dps?

I am wondering if I am using EnhSim incorrectly because this does not reflect what I see when I look at the dps on my marginally geared shaman in our typical 10man raid setup. Could it also be a reflection of the fact that I am in mostly heroics gear and using only 10man buffs? I have attached the EnhSim config that I was using.

[TABLE]Glyph1 | Glyph2 | Glyph3 | DPS

FT | SS | LL | 15667

FS | SS | LL | 15443

FT | FS | LL | 15606

[/TABLE]

### Saved by v2.3.0 of EnhSimGUI


config_version                  2.3.0

simulation_time                 5000

simulation_time_combatlog       300

combat_length                   7

report_count                    80

threads                         1

combat_length_rng_factor        0.35

min_lag                         350

max_lag                         450

simulate_mana                   1

cast_sr_on_cooldown             0


ep_precision                    2

ep_base_stat                    ap

ep_ap                           200

ep_crit_rating                  100

ep_hit_rating                   -100

ep_expertise_rating             -100

ep_haste_rating                 100

ep_mastery_rating               100

ep_spellpower                   115

ep_dps                          57

ep_mana                         1200

ep_spirit                       100

ep_mp5                          100

ep_intellect                    100

ep_agility                      100

ep_strength                     100


mh_auto_attack                  1

oh_auto_attack                  1

use_bloodlust                   0

always_bloodlust_wolves         0

cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1

cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       2

cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left   1

cast_searing_only_if_ticks_left 1

cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       0

use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    1000

necrotic_touch                  0

necrotic_touch_heroic           0


gloves_enchant                  -

cloak_enchant                   -

ring_proc                       -

weapon_set_proc                 -


rotation_priority_count         9

rotation_priority1              ST

rotation_priority2              LL

rotation_priority3              FS_UEF

rotation_priority4              MW5_LB

rotation_priority5              UE

rotation_priority6              SS

rotation_priority7              ES

rotation_priority8              SW

rotation_priority9              SR


aoe_rotation_priority_count     0


fight_name                      standard_single_target

miss                            8.00

dodge                           6.50

glancing                        24.00

armor                           11977

spell_miss                      17.00

nature_resistance               0

fire_resistance                 0

frost_resistance                0

arcane_resistance               0

shadow_resistance               0


additional_targets              0

additional_target_percent       0.00

additional_target_level         85


armor_debuff                    12.0/12.0

physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0

melee_haste_buff                10.0/10.0

crit_chance_buff                0/5.0

attack_power_buff_multiplier    10.0/10.0

spell_haste_buff                0/5.0

spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/5.0

spell_damage_debuff             0/8.0

spellpower_buff                 10.0/10.0

percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0

stat_multiplier                 5.0/5.0

agi_and_strength_buff           549/549

mana_buff                       0/2126

mana_regen_buff                 326/326


replenishment                   1

water_shield                    0

mixology                        1


flask_elixir                    flask_of_the_winds

guardian_elixir                 -

potion                          -

food                            skewered_eel


###############################################################################

### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###

### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###

###############################################################################


race                            orc

mh_speed                        2.3

oh_speed                        2.6

mh_dps                          50

oh_dps                          462.3

mh_crit                         22.39

oh_crit                         22.39

mh_hit                          19.62

oh_hit                          19.62

mh_expertise_rating             387

oh_expertise_rating             387

ap                              7202

melee_haste                     3.08

str                             134

agi                             3082

int                             265

spi                             244

mastery_rating                  1388

spellpower                      5585

spell_crit                      12.59

spell_hit                       16.24

spell_haste                     3.08

max_mana                        25190

mp5                             1171


mh_imbue                        flametongue

oh_imbue                        flametongue


mh_enchant                      avalanche

oh_enchant                      avalanche


mh_weapon                       mace

oh_weapon                       fist


trinket1                        left_eye_of_rajh_heroic

trinket2                        tias_grace_heroic


set_bonus1                      -

set_bonus2                      -

set_bonus3                      -


metagem                         chaotic_shadowspirit_diamond


glyph_prime1                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_prime2                    stormstrike

glyph_prime3                    lava_lash


glyph_major1                    chain_lightning

glyph_major2                    -

glyph_major3                    -


armor_type_bonus                1


primary_talent                  enhancement

elemental_weapons               2/2

focused_strikes                 3/3

improved_shields                0/3

elemental_devastation           3/3

flurry                          3/3

static_shock                    3/3

improved_fire_nova              2/2

searing_flames                  3/3

frozen_power                    0/2

shamanistic_rage                1/1

unleashed_rage                  2/2

improved_lava_lash              2/2

maelstrom_weapon                3/3


convection                      0/2

concussion                      2/3

call_of_flame                   2/2

reverberation                   2/2

elemental_precision             1/3

elemental_focus                 0/1

elemental_oath                  0/2

lava_flows                      0/3

storm_earth_and_fire            0/3

elemental_mastery               0/1

feedback                        0/3

lava_surge                      0/2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The person I was responding to was planning on running FS - FT - LL which your graph is showing as 15606. I said that for a caster mainhand they should swap our FS instead of SS which would be running FT - SS - LL which your chart shows as 15667. 15667 > 15606

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In theory there is a point where it makes sense to abort a LB for a LvB, but in any practical situation, the time window is just too small. Never abort a started cast (unless you have to move from fire ofc).

I agree with your conclusion, but I don't necessarily agree with your explanation. There are too many variables to consider; you would need a simulator to accurately simulate it. Based on the above scenario, in most cases, if you cancel the LvB you would be casting a LB after it anyway. So in the 3s or so of time, you're casting LB -> LvB vs. LB (cancelled) -> LvB -> LB. Therefore, in the big picture of the entire fight, all this accomplishes is inserting a small period of no casting for a slightly reduced cooldown on your LvB. To accurately compare the two scenarios, you would have to calculate at the end of the fight, the extra # of LvB casts you were able to cast due to cancelling your LB, and divide that by the time wasted by cancelling your LB to see if it's an overall increase in dps.

Also, it looks like CL has a higher DPET than LB, shouldn't it be used in favour of LB provided you do not go OOM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, looking at it from your point of view, what's the gain in canceling LB in the first place? Instead of doing a LB-LvB, we're doing a LvB-LB plus some waiting. If you're just moving casts around, you're not changing dps in any way.

If you use something like "Don't abort LB after more than 0.25 sec casting", you lose 10 seconds of casting time over a 6minute fight (~40 LvBs can be cast in that time window) or about 5-6 LB casts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm agreeing with you; I don't think stopping a cast of LB to cast LvB ever has any merit in an actual gameplay situation. It's the same question as "if I have X seconds left on cooldown for the LvB, what should I do?". If you don't have lava surge, then the dps gain/loss is easier to calculate.

Scenario 1: LB->LvB->LB (where the Lava surge procs or LvB comes off cooldown during the first LB)

Scenario 2: (delay) -> LvB->LB->LB

The penalty in Scenario 1 is that you won't actually get to use a LvB every 8s (+LvB cast time), where as in Scenario 2, you'll get a much tighter rotation. If you use Scenario 2 enough times (X ~= 9s/LB cast time-delay) you'll eventually have pushed your LvB CD forward enough times such that you'll get an extra cast at the cost of some amount of time (X delays). Approximately, the gain would be (LvB dmg - (3/4)LB dmg) and the loss would be (X delays/LB cast time) * LB dmg or (9s * delay / (LB cast time - delay) * LB cast time) * LB dmg. Given an expected 24k dmg LvB and a 13k dmg LB, and a LB cast time of 1.5s, the delay comes out to a little under 0.3s.

Now that assumes we don't have lava surge, which is where the math becomes tricky. In the above example, rearranging LB and LvB means that eventually you'll have push your LvB forward enough times such that you get an "extra" LvB relative to Scenario 1. However, with lava surge, if it proc's at a time where in both scenarios LvB is on cooldown, the entire rotation gets reset since your next cast is LvB. All the benefit of delaying your cast is now gone. Therefore, with lava surge, the only time you get this benefit is if it proc's at a time where in Scenario 1 LvB would already be off cooldown, but in Scenario 2 it's still on cooldown. This time period is the same time it takes to cast exactly 1 LB, and the overall time period of the rotation is 8s + 1 LvB cast. Approximately 15% depending on your haste value. So you'd have approximately a 15% chance of getting an extra LvB cast somewhere down the road if you cancel/delay your cast. The math is then similar to the above, which means the delay will have to be less than 0.2s.

I hope that explanation suffices. Either way, the value is so low that after factoring reaction time + latency, it's extremely unlikely you'll get any benefit from ever cancelling a cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering how often resto shaman are using Nature's Swiftness in either raiding or Arena/Rated BGs. I started playing again in Cataclysm and have been healing normals and heroics, and I have found that I don't really use it at all. The scenario of I need GHW right now just doesn't seem to exist. Any scenario close to that can be solved with a Healing Surge cast instead. I was thinking of dropping NS from my spec and putting the point in either Cleansing Waters or another point in some off-spec talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm looking for an addon that will track the amount of seconds left on a riptide that i've thrown out and display this time left within grid without taking up the center icon as I use that for debuffs.

I use GridStatusHots.

Doesn't display seconds, but rather makes your normal square dot icon change color at 3 different threshold. You can set it all the way you like it. For example Make the icon of Riptide green at start, yellow after 10 seconds, and red when 3 seconds are left. I configured it to be Yellow at start, and red when 4 seconds are left.

( I'd also like to know an addon that can show me which targets on grid have power word shield through use of an icon rather then a box and the timeleft on it? Is this possible?

May be wrong here, but I don't know any grid module allowing you to do so. It's perfectly possible on Vuhdo though, so you might considered changing Grid for Vuhdo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could anyone please post the correct sprit/int to mp5 formula for Resto Shamans in 4.0.6? I find so many different values on the web.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was playing with the gear I have and testing different spellpower weapons, when I noticed something strange.

When I equip my Biting Wind, the damage shown in the melee tab is 1739-1961, whereas when I use my Scepter of Power the damage shown is 1894-2107. Why is this? I see that dagger's DPS is higher, but shouldn't the dagger also have higher damage because mace's base damage is lower and AP stays the same?

Or is there different scaling with AP on different weapon types/weapon speeds?

I'm afraid this question is a bit more game mechanics than shaman related, but posting it here.

EDIT: in live Scepter of Power's damage is 2-214, not 51-95 as wowhead claims.

EDIT2: The further I think, I think i'm missing something important here. I guess I have thought that the damage formula is more simple than it actually is..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.