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malthrin

Paladin Simple Questions: Cataclysmic Mode

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I'm leveling a paladin, and just picked up Holy Shield. Is it common practice among protadins to macro this into regular abilities, or do you save it for when you expect high dmg? Seems like it could get very annoying in the long run with a 30s active defensive cooldown.

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Is it common practice among protadins to macro this into regular abilities, or do you save it for when you expect high dmg?

It's regular, but by no means optimal. While it can be annoying, using it when you're expecting more incoming blockable damage is a noticeable survivability increase (otherwise you occasionally hit stages where you pop Holy Shield and the boss isn't even hitting you for the duration). Of course, if the choice is macro it or never remember to use it, macroing it is probably a better choice for you. An unused cooldown is a worthless cooldown.

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I'm leveling a paladin, and just picked up Holy Shield. Is it common practice among protadins to macro this into regular abilities, or do you save it for when you expect high dmg? Seems like it could get very annoying in the long run with a 30s active defensive cooldown.

The problem with using it manually is uptime, if you're waiting too long to use it you're wasting a lot of its potential. Especially in DS most of the fights the extra damage mechanic is not blockable.

Personally I macroed it to my judgment and I just trained myself to not use my judgement when the other tank is tanking.

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The problem with using it manually is uptime, if you're waiting too long to use it you're wasting a lot of its potential. Especially in DS most of the fights the extra damage mechanic is not blockable.

Personally I macroed it to my judgment and I just trained myself to not use my judgement when the other tank is tanking.

As for me it should be done manually all the time. For example on Warlord Zon'ozz I try not to waste it before he gets at least 4-5 stacks of focused anger or at Warmaster Blackhorn before I get at least 2 stacks of armor debuff. TellMeWhen, NeedToKnow, Raven and whatever another addon can help you to keep it up whenever it's available.

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Does anyone know what healing modifiers (like the talent Divinity) effect holy radiance and if targeting a person who gets more healing means the spell does more to everyone else too? I'd test it myself but it's kind of hard to notice a few percent with RNG.

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The problem with using it manually is uptime, if you're waiting too long to use it you're wasting a lot of its potential. Especially in DS most of the fights the extra damage mechanic is not blockable.

Personally I macroed it to my judgment and I just trained myself to not use my judgement when the other tank is tanking.

The reason I'd advise against this is is the same reason you (hopefully) don't pop GAnK/AD/DP on cooldown, or macro any of those skills to Crusader Strike. Holy Shield's strength is that it's a powerful anti-melee cooldown that's available pretty often. Don't confuse low uptime with "wasting its potential" though. It's far more important to have HS up at the right time than to have it up as much as possible.

Put another way, it doesn't matter what your Holy Shield uptime looks like as long as you survive. If I go a full minute (or two, or three) without popping it because I didn't feel threatened, that's fine. I'm far more concerned that it's available for the 15-second periods where I do feel threatened. Because that's when it'll save my life and prevent a wipe.

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Is there a point at which heroic hand of morchok outshines regular souldrinker for general tanking.. ie most of the instance on farm etcetc?

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I have a two-part question:

1. Does switching target reset the melee swing timer? I reckon it does but still want to be sure.

2. Does the dps gain from switching target and applying (also maintaining) Censure stacks on several targets (say 2 or 3 so that we don't use DS) outweigh the dps loss of the swing timer resets (provided that the answer to #1 is 'yes')?

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I have a two-part question:

1. Does switching target reset the melee swing timer? I reckon it does but still want to be sure.

2. Does the dps gain from switching target and applying (also maintaining) Censure stacks on several targets (say 2 or 3 so that we don't use DS) outweigh the dps loss of the swing timer resets (provided that the answer to #1 is 'yes')?

1. No, it does not.

Melee swing timer is normally 'front loaded'. You get your first autoattack at time zero - you engage combat and your strike occurs. After this strike your swing timer begins for attack #2. If your weapon speed is exactly 3.0 after Haste, then at time zero you strike. At time 0.001 you start counting down from 3 to a fresh attack - swapping target does not interrupt this countdown. You can autoattack target 1, tab to target 2, judge target 2, tab to target 3 and your autoattack strikes exactly 3 seconds after 1st attack - no reset.

Only a hard cast of a non-instant spell (Exo without AoW, a healing spell, etc) will reset the swing timer. If you cast Flash of Light, while the spell is casting you do not swing, and as soon as the spell completes your swing starts counting down from the maximum (3 seconds in our example).

2. Mostly N/A since swing timer does not reset. However, if your multiple targets die quickly it is still a net loss. The length you spend ramping up Censure on multiple targets is a loss of DPS compared to whacking on a single target that already has 5 stacks. You must have all targets running at 5 stacks for a relatively long period. This is something like 20-30 seconds at 5 stacks if I remember the last time we crunched the numbers. Add in the 10ish seconds to stack and you need adds that survive 30-40 seconds to break even - longer to see a net benefit.

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2. Does the dps gain from switching target and applying (also maintaining) Censure stacks on several targets (say 2 or 3 so that we don't use DS) outweigh the dps loss of the swing timer resets (provided that the answer to #1 is 'yes')?

I was under the impression that we should be using SoR for multi-target fights. Does anyone know the exact number of mobs where SoR becomes better than SoT? I've assumed it was 3, but I'm not actually sure.

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I was under the impression that we should be using SoR for multi-target fights. Does anyone know the exact number of mobs where SoR becomes better than SoT? I've assumed it was 3, but I'm not actually sure.

If you had no reason to use GCD, then the answer is 4 targets. At least 4, otherwise Divine Storm isn't granting HP and you'd be better sticking with the single target setup. Using SoR and CS at 3 targets is a worst of both worlds scenario.

Since you do have to use GCD it becomes more nebulous. You are going to exchange 2 GCD (SoT->SoR and back when finished) in order to swap. Someone could crunch the numbers on precise timing, but if the targets die in less than about 20 seconds, you're probably not gaining much, if any, DPS. In the 20-25 second range you are simply redistributing your DPS from a single target to all your targets equally (losing 2 direct damage GCD for the extra seal procs). 30 seconds or more with 4 targets (boss and 3+ adds) would be about long enough to see a total DPS increase.

Additional targets beyond 4 may shave off a half-second to a second, each. Remember that if you drop to 3 total targets, you're suddenly under threshold, so you need at least 4 adds alive into the 20-30 second range in order to gain the benefit.

I understand SoR could be useful during Heroic Madness (I have not experienced the fight), but I'm hard pressed to think of another situation in Dragon Soul where SoR would be advantageous. Yor's adds die within the loss/break-even timeframe and AOE is either unnecessary (normal) or undesirable (as I understand Heroic) on Spine.

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Is there a point at which heroic hand of morchok outshines regular souldrinker for general tanking.. ie most of the instance on farm etcetc?

I would also like to know the views on this due to a loot dispute in a raid recently.

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I would also like to know the views on this due to a loot dispute in a raid recently.

I'm not sure you're going to get a consensus on that. I don't care for Heroic HoM very much. It's extra mastery that you can convert to stamina through gemming, which is nice, but the amount of stamina you gain is not very large. If I remember the numbers correctly, one Souldrinker proc during a near-death scenario heals for more hit points than you gain through the passive stamina from HHoM. Of course, there's something to be said for the always-on value of stamina, but Souldrinker's got a pretty high proc rate.

So I would (and did) use normal Souldrinker over HHoM, because I think it's the stronger option for both DPS and survivability. If circumstances were different, my opinion might change. For example, if I was in a situation where I was struggling to maintain block cap on content where block cap was very strong. Or if I was facing a strong blockable EH test, and wanted every bit of Stamina I could get to survive a single large attack (i.e. a blockable version of Impale). But in my experience, those situations didn't arise in heroic Dragon Soul.

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