Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

malthrin

Paladin Simple Questions: Cataclysmic Mode

263 posts in this topic

Paladin Tank Question: How does Agility affect dodge and how does strength affect parry? I know they have different effects, especially in how the paper dolls show it. When you gain strength, your parry AND your parry rating increase, but when you gain dodge, your dodge chance goes up but your dodge rating doesn't. The Prot thread says agility affects dodge better than strength affects parry, but does the agility bonus to dodge suffer from DR? It seems like the strength bonus to parry almost certainly does. I'm just a bit confused, as I jsut got the agility sword from Valiona.

Paladins gain 1% dodge per 304.5 Agility at level 85. 25% of your Strength is added as parry rating. Since 176.7 parry rating = 1%, ~707 strength for 1% parry at 85.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't specifically a paladin issue, but since I'm a prot paladin, and I didn't see a tank forum, I thought I'd give this a shot.

I've noticed that armor does not seem to be keeping pace with other stats in Cata.

For example, the new armor to cloak has only 25 more armor than LK. Similarly, the enchant armor to shield only adds 160 armor. These are pretty minor examples that didn't bother me, but then I started looking at trinkets.

Compare, for example, the Heroic Leaden Depair - adds 3240 armor if you're under 35% health. For me, this adds about 2% damage reduction, which is ok, but if you're under 35% that's not going to amount to much. Compare this to the proc from The Black Heart out of H. Trial - adds 7056 armor, randomly when you're hit.

If the stamina budgets were similar, I'd equip the black heart - no question. More armor, more often, and when it matters more.

In addition, the Bedrock Talisman just seems to be a joke - 1028 armor is all you get for equipping it? The under 35% hp is nice, but the equip effect seems really, really weak - especially for something that costs 1650 valor points.

To put it simply - why is it that armor budgets on trinkets and enchants seem so small compared to LK equipment and enchants? I'm not really worried about my damage reduction, sitting on about 60% right now, which seems right - but the small amounts of incoming armor to equipment seems strange to me.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

-Kapnkillin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Armor itemization on items had a major overhaul after patch 4.0. However, some items were not updated and still have their old values. Take [item]50344[/item] for example. 2128 armor is considered totally OP now. Necks and rings with armor from ToC/ICC also had their stats lowered by about 600 points.

Those are just reminescent stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quick qiestion.

For example we have casting time of Holy Light 1.93 seconds in tooltip.

What is actual cast time of the spell ? Equal 1.93 ? Or this being rounded up to 1.9 or 1.95 ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Armor itemization on items had a major overhaul after patch 4.0. However, some items were not updated and still have their old values. Take [item]50344[/item] for example. 2128 armor is considered totally OP now. Necks and rings with armor from ToC/ICC also had their stats lowered by about 600 points.

Those are just reminescent stuff.

Disregard this, upcoming patch notes:

Lich King trinkets with bonus armor values have been adjusted using the new Cataclysm formula, reducing their armor values substantially.

I guess they do read Elitist Jerks after all :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quick qiestion.

For example we have casting time of Holy Light 1.93 seconds in tooltip.

What is actual cast time of the spell ? Equal 1.93 ? Or this being rounded up to 1.9 or 1.95 ?

It is 1.93. Blizzard calculates cast times to 3 significant figures, so anything over 1 second cast time will be X.XX, and under 1 second it will be .XXX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am inquiring about which is more important. Stamina or avoidance? I understand we are to shoot for 102.4% total avoidance, and Stamina effects the benefits we receive from vengeance. However, I am not certain I should gun for first. I have looked around in a few forums including the Protection one, and it is possible I may have looked over it. I doubt it though.

I would be inclined to think avoidance is more important. Because even though the damage is spikey until we push everything but block, dodge, and parry off the hit table. It could be more effective in helping the healers keeping us alive.

However, stamina gives us a larger health pool. Which in a way does allow us to take in more damage at a less spikey rate.

Would the "theoretical healthpool" in stacking avoidance be better than pure stamina's healthpool?

I am sorry if this qualifies as "hand holding", I do not mean it that way. I am just confused as to which would be better. And I thought this would be the best place to ask this question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking your healers into consideration, Avoidance is better than stamina. But this assumes you have enough stamina that you're note getting insta-gibbed. Naturally you have to have 102.4% to make sure you don't receive a single unmitigated hit. THAT is your number 1 priority. After that, start trading in block for dodge or parry, whichever will give you the most benefit considering diminishing returns. More stamina is ALWAYS good, but unless your DPS is walking in with more life than you, you want to prioritize avoidance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, here's another one:

Does Rebuke no longer proc Seal of Vengeance like it used to pre-Cata? I don't see any info regarding this change...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does Rebuke no longer proc Seal of Vengeance like it used to pre-Cata? I don't see any info regarding this change...

Rebuke no longer procs Seal of Truth. This can easily be tested on a target dummy by hitting Rebuke with autoattack off (after you've applied at least 1 stack of Censure).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back during beta Blizzard was talking about making resources regenerate faster from haste for some specs/classes. Did his ever happen for Rets, and if so was it merely done as part of our natural regen or does it affect Judgements of the Bold?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haste does affect Judgements of the Bold. It also increases ret holy power generation by decreasing the cooldown on Crusader Strike, reducing the spell GCD, and decreasing your swing timer (more chances for HoL procs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea for haste is not that it "regenerates faster".

The idea behind the secondary stats:

Crit : bigger numbers

Haste: you can press more buttons in the same timeframe

Mastery: you become better at your role. For healers this is extra healing done, for dps it's extra damage done, for tanks it's extra damage reduction. Exactly how the mastery works is different for each spec.

--

For casters, more haste means shorter GCD's on their spells, so they get their 'more buttons' that way.

For rogues, cats, bears, warriors, DK's, hunter, a shorter GCD on their abilities would do little, since their ability to press buttons is restricted by their resources (runes, energy, focus, rage). So haste makes energy and runes replenish faster which allows rogues/cats to press more buttons. For warrior/bear, more haste means more autoattacks, which translates to more rage so they can hit more buttons also. Hunters get a shorter cast time on Steady shot, which gives them more focus.

Paladins are bit of a special case, we have some of our abilities on a shorter GCD, and via a talent, we can get CS cooldown reduced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a quick question, getting 102.4% avoidance for prot pali is added with pary+dodge+5+block+mastery.

What i was wondering is are you suppose to calculate the diminishing returns on dodge and parry or what is shown before diminishing returns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Had a quick question, getting 102.4% avoidance for prot pali is added with pary+dodge+5+block+mastery.

What i was wondering is are you suppose to calculate the diminishing returns on dodge and parry or what is shown before diminishing returns.

If you're trying to figure out how much more dodge or parry you'll need to reach that level of avoidance, then yes, as I understand your question, you'll need to take diminishing returns into account. If you're trying to figure out if you're at that level already, then the whole idea of diminishing returns shouldn't even really apply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to find your CTC coverage you need to take the percentages from your character screen, so DR is already applied. You're CTC coverage calculation is wrong, it's Parry% + Dodge% + Block% +5 = CTC Coverage, mastery is already counted within the block%.

If you want to try and figure out how much extra stat you need to reach 102.4% then you would need to apply DR to your extra stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking at "eye for an eye" for prot. It says reflects damage so would this relate to an average 13.3% damage reduction in direct spell damage encounters? It generally shares skill point space with improved judgement, which seems to be far more common. With the huge focus of mitigation in discussion what makes that 30yd range judgment so attractive?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eye for an Eye doesn't mitigate. Reflected damage is calculated after any mitigation from resistance/cooldowns/etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone tested the effects of haste on Glyph of the Long Word? I believe the glyph has a base of 3 ticks. From my calculations, a holy paladin with heroic 5-man gear will have enough haste, in combat, to get 4 ticks leading to a ~16% increase in healing for WoG. A couple of caveats are that it doesn't scale very well with haste (you would get 5 ticks at ~50% haste) and the glyph makes WoG less effective as a quick reactive heal. Additionally, you would not want to use Eternal Glory procs on the same target, as I would assume the HoT would overwrite itself. Would Rule of Law and Last Word affect the ticks?

e: Grammar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question of why the combat table coverage target is 102.4% instead of 100% came up today and I was unable to find a good answer to explain the 2.4% in terms relevant to Cata. All the old explanations I saw had references to your defence rating, parry haste and other topics that are no longer relevant. I therefore tried to make an easy to understand explanation and came up with the following:

1) Remember that a boss will be three levels higher than you. So he is 88 you are 85. We need to account for this difference.

2) This difference means that he will be more likely to hit you than a lvl 85 NPC would.

3) In addition, he reduces the chance that you can dodge, parry or block him.

4) The 2.4% is the amount you need above 100% to ensure that all physical attacks from that boss are either avoided (dodge/parried) or mitigated (blocked).

5) In math terms it looks like this: For each point of difference between the boss' level and the character's level the boss reduces its chance to miss by 0.2%, and reduces the character's chances to dodge, parry, and block by 0.2%. For a 3 point difference, (3 x 0.2%) = 0.6% - the boss increases its chance to hit by 0.6%, and reduces the character's chance to dodge, block, and parry each by 0.6%. For all four, we get (4 x 0.6) = 2.4%.

My question for this thread: Is my understanding of the 2.4% correct; and do the values still work in Cata?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are correct Saillaw, as far as the first tier works so far. Blizzard has hinted they might give bosses effective expertise or hit rating in the next tiers so we'll have to wait and see in that case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know of an addon that tracks how many attacks where avoided or mitigated through blocks and sums up the average reduction done by blocks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I havn't used it in a while but Skada Avoidance and Mitigation used to do this and when you used the addon to go in to detail it could show a breakdown of physical damage taken, avoided and mitigated by hit type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roughly speaking, assuming zero overheal, what's the range of single target healing generated by a holy pally (in whatever gear level you feel like commenting on, just let me know so I can ballpark) per 1 mana?

Edit - I might have had a tanking theorycrafting epiphany related to Theck's "maybe STR isn't such a bad tanking stat after all due to +SP", and wasn't sure where to ask this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Roughly speaking, assuming zero overheal, what's the range of single target healing generated by a holy pally (in whatever gear level you feel like commenting on, just let me know so I can ballpark) per 1 mana?

Edit - I might have had a tanking theorycrafting epiphany related to Theck's "maybe STR isn't such a bad tanking stat after all due to +SP", and wasn't sure where to ask this.

I use Dr. Damage, in full 359 raiding gear/few blue heroic 5 man items, EXCLUDING POTI AND BEACON, my DL does around 4.5 hpm, holy light 5.5 hpm while FoL is 3.5 hpm. You're asking solely for single target healing but I recommend you get Dr. Damage if you want accurate numbers for your own gear. Factoring in PoTI and beacon would yield much higer numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.