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Jmickey

Demonology in Cataclysm (4.3 Release)

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I have been simming trinkets and various gearing plots between my present gearing (394'ish ilvl) and theoretical BiS setups. In both 0/31/10 and 3/31/7 specs I'm seeing heroic insignia + heroic cunning coming out ahead of the traditional cunning+heroic will by a couple hundred dps. 432-1 simcraft, 450 duration, vary 20%, elite skill, all raid buffs/debuffs, 10K iterations, standard/default priority. Not having to stack will might be a small gain but as I understand it h.will is modeled as being at full stacks in simcraft. Am I missing something?

I'm also finding a 300-400 dps increase using ICM along with COC in my own 397 and SimC BIS profiles. Some simple tests lead me to believe that this is due to the Doomguard gaining extra attacks, but I may be interpreting the results incorrectly.

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My guess would be that demo's strong doomguards coupled with being able to pair Doomguard with the haste proc at the beginning of the fight would cause it to sim better than WoU, coupled with the fact that WoU won't be at full stacks by the time you pop your first Doomguard. I don't know, WoU seems to be quite a bit lower dps for all specs than I'd have assumed according to simcraft.

edit: easiest way to test the doomguard theory would be to run the comparisons twice, once with doomguard in the action list and once without

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edit: easiest way to test the doomguard theory would be to run the comparisons twice, once with doomguard in the action list and once without

That was the test I had done. The outcome was that the ranking results were reversed. The Doomguard gains more from ICM than WoU and the rest of the spells don't outweigh that benefit.

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The doomguard seems to be the difference. With no doomguard and identical profiles H.Will comes out ahead of H.Insignia by ~200dps. Thus a ~400'ish dps swing due to how the doomguard is modeled. Going to model dest and aff similarly but as its offtopic here PM me if you want to discuss results.

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A couple of clarifying points to Rublik's post above:

1. You actually want to use potion/blood fury/spellpower trinket prior to soulburn in your macro to get the most out of the 10% spellpower increase from 4pc T13, then pop demon soul.

The 4T13 buff is a multiplier, not a +10%snapshot of what you had when you popped soulburn. I tested this with synapse springs: popping soulburn before or after activating the int buff gave me the same total spellpower on my character sheet.

5. Spec incinerate. Unglyph metamorphosis in favor of corruption glyph for nightfall procs.

You mean take improved corruption instead of bane, or just glyph incinerate? So the stronger corr ticks make up for the extra 1/2 second of cast time on immolate every tendon? How short a time does a target have to be up before it's better to keep bane?

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You mean take improved corruption instead of bane, or just glyph incinerate? So the stronger corr ticks make up for the extra 1/2 second of cast time on immolate every tendon? How short a time does a target have to be up before it's better to keep bane?

This isn't about buffing Corruption. You don't need the extended duration on Metamorphosis for this fight so the glyph is worth less than the Corruption glyph procing instant Shadow Bolts and less than the Incinerate glyph allowing you to use for Incinerate filler.

My limited testing has actually shown that using the Bane and not Improved Corruption is more dps in this situation, but I trust that the other posters have looked into it much further than I have.

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@Eph, glyph choice is obvious, spec choice wasn't. I was replying to someone that said "spec incin". So thanks for your thoughts on Bane.

on another tangent, I'm finding that normal SB-demo spec sims within 10 DPS for me, on a 300 sec fight (i.e. H zon'ozz and H ultrax) with several trinket choices (all will of unbinding + w/e). On longer fights the number of extra metas you can get out of incin spec without syncing meta + DS prob. takes the advantage, but you get 4 metas with either spec at around 2k haste, with dragonwrath for extra impending doom procs, on a 6 min fight. Will sim again and make another post since I just got some upgrades that allow me to get more mastery and less haste.

unrelated: just updated my insta-felhunter macro to do:


/cast [nomod:alt] soulburn

/cast Summon Felhunter

/petattack

Now my felhunter always shadow bites my target the instant he's out, and I don't have to spam another button that has petattack macroed. Now watch me replace moonwell and stop pet twisting on most fights... :P

I have noticed that my felguard will often fail to legion strike after felstorm is over. It is set to autocast. Manually clicking it before hitting my insta-felhunter, after felstorm, does get it to cast. I'll test next time I'm on putting /cast legion strike before summon felhunter in my soulburn felhunter macro.

edit: of course when I go to test this on a target dummy, it legion strike casts fine after felstorm ends. Often not the case on boss pulls in raids. I sometimes watch for legion strike going on CD to know when to consume soulburn with felhunter during my opening rotation, and it doesn't always happen, even when the CD on felstorm is down to 37 seconds. (it should end at 39 secs left, 45 - 6 = 39)

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I'm having some trouble with Immolation aura.

For some reason my fellow warlock's immolation aura has a DPET of 100k

Tho mine only has a DPET of 70k.

I've ran SimCraft several times to be sure.

I've compared everything and we're just about the same stat wise.

the only thing he has I don't is the legendary staff.

Is there anything I'm missing? Why is his DPET of Immolation Aura much higher than mine?

I'm comparing Grifangar with myself, Faeye. Some assistance would be appreciated.

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I'm having some trouble with Immolation aura.

For some reason my fellow warlock's immolation aura has a DPET of 100k

Tho mine only has a DPET of 70k.

I've ran SimCraft several times to be sure.

I've compared everything and we're just about the same stat wise.

the only thing he has I don't is the legendary staff.

Is there anything I'm missing? Why is his DPET of Immolation Aura much higher than mine?

I'm comparing Grifangar with myself, Faeye. Some assistance would be appreciated.

Simcraft will assume you demon swap in the presence of Moonwell Chalice. The Felguard's Demon Soul effect is 15% haste and 10% fire/shadow damage.

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Simcraft will assume you demon swap in the presence of Moonwell Chalice. The Felguard's Demon Soul effect is 15% haste and 10% fire/shadow damage.

SO the fact that his Immolation aura does more DPET is solely because he's using MWC, while I'm using WoU and CoC?

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When MWC is equipped, SimCraft assumes you time your Meta and DS and swap pets, so SimCraft will always calculate his Immolation Aura with Demon Soul: Felguard and MWC buffed Meta.

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Reaching the haste thresholds for Corrution does provide an increase and should generally be achieved.

I wanted to briefly challenge this. It feels inconsistent from the current SimulationCraft setup and results. From the action priority list:

corruption,if=(remains<tick_time|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_react

You also examine this in the DoT refreshing section as well - the bolded part is to account for the fact that you can refresh your DoT's via clipping without penalty.

With that, is it still beneficial to reach the corruption haste plateau if you're able to consistently get the refresh in time?

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At 1992, a corruption lasts 16.8ish seconds and ticks 7 times, at 1993 it lasts 19.2 seconds and ticks 8 times. So at 1992 the condition you quoted is met roughly 14.4 seconds after you first apply corruption, at 1993 at roughly 16.8 seconds after you first apply corruption. So at 1993 you refresh corruption less frequently, leading to casting your filler more, hence it's worth reaching it. Might be completely misunderstanding your point, but it seems like that's what you're asking about.

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At 1992, a corruption lasts 16.8ish seconds and ticks 7 times, at 1993 it lasts 19.2 seconds and ticks 8 times. So at 1992 the condition you quoted is met roughly 14.4 seconds after you first apply corruption, at 1993 at roughly 16.8 seconds after you first apply corruption. So at 1993 you refresh corruption less frequently, leading to casting your filler more, hence it's worth reaching it. Might be completely misunderstanding your point, but it seems like that's what you're asking about.

Yeah, I think that's what Blacksen was asking. Being just past the threshold for an extra tick = more time for fillers. Way back when I hadn't understood dots and haste correctly, the key was realizing that dots always tick right as they expire. There's no time window where the dot has had the last tick but hasn't expired yet. The reason of course is that the duration scales to match the tickspeed. I'm not sure why this wasn't obvious to me, but if I recall correctly, I did manage to get myself confused about it for a while.

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A little trick which is pretty easy to use and I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere : for those of you using MWC as only a mastery pull trinket, you can use its serverlag component to equip a static mastery trinket and meta before the buff disappears so you should be able to gain 458 mastery with Fire of the Deep (for instance).

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A little trick which is pretty easy to use and I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere : for those of you using MWC as only a mastery pull trinket, you can use its serverlag component to equip a static mastery trinket and meta before the buff disappears so you should be able to gain 458 mastery with Fire of the Deep (for instance).

You can do this with a full set of gear, not just another trinket.

Edit: Or do you mean in the same slot?

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In the same slot of course, the point being to get 2158 mastery out of that trinket slot instead of only 1700.

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In the same slot of course, the point being to get 2158 mastery out of that trinket slot instead of only 1700.

I don't mean to sound dense, but could you go into a little more detail here? If I activate the MWC but then equip another trinket in its slot, I lose the buff from MWC.

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I don't mean to sound dense, but could you go into a little more detail here? If I activate the MWC but then equip another trinket in its slot, I lose the buff from MWC.

Lets say you have one equipset with moonwell chalice, and another with a passive mastery trinket in the same slot. You can macro:

/equipset passivetrinket

/cast metamorphosis

and 90% of the time it will add MWC (1700 mastery) and the passive mastery bonus of another trinket say, fire of the deep (458 mastery) for a bonus of 2158 mastery instead of 1700 for the one trinket slot.

The point of it is that you don't lose the on use benefit for about ~1s after switching trinkets, so you gain the benefit of two trinkets.

In my testing of that macro it never got rid of the 1700 from MWC, and only sometime didn't add the 458 mastery, so nothing to lose.

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/equipset passivetrinket

/cast metamorphosis

Just be careful, you probably want to equip your combat set right after metamorphosis and that would not be possible if you equipset just before , the macro would look like (if you have MWC in slot 13) :

/equip passivetrinket

/cast Metamorphosis

/equipset combatset

etc

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In a bit more detail:

2. Gear swapping*

This is a very useful Demonology only trick that can really buff your first Metamorphosis. Because this is also your most important Metamorphosis (where all your procs line up and when you'll most likely have hero), this trick actually works out as about a 1.5k or more dps increase.

2.1 How Metamorphosis works

First off, it is useful to understand how Metamorphosis and your mastery work. Metamorphosis is essentially a buff that increases your damage by x % for 36 seconds (glyphed). This "x" is determined by your mastery (more mastery, more Metamorphosis damage). However, the Metamorphosis buff doesn't scale dynamically with your mastery, meaning that whatever x % damage increase you have from mastery when you first hit Metamorphosis, you will keep for 36 seconds regardless of if your mastery changes in this time. This, as you can see, leaves room for exploitation.

2.2 Making a mastery set

The idea is to make a full set of gear with as much mastery as possible. No other stat matters here, so you can use strength/agility/spirit items and mastery gems/enchants. You can probably squeeze between 3000-4000 mastery with a set like this. This is the set you need to be wearing before the encounter.

2.3 The macro

Then you make sure your tanks are doing a countdown pull, and just before they pull (similar to pre-potting) you activate Metamorphosis (with a ridiculous amount of mastery) and switch to your proper Demonology gear set. Easy.

The easiest way to accomplish this is to stick it all into one macro, so you don't have to press several buttons. This is what it should look something like:

/cast metamorphosis

/equipset Demonology

/use Volcanic Potion

/cast Demon Soul

2.4 Finer details

One small thing I would like to mention here is your choice of trinkets in your mastery gear set. It is very beneficial to have a Moonwell Chalice (from the Firelands daily quest hub), as this will give you an extra 1700 mastery for your first Metamorphosis. If you are using this, make sure that you activate it before you use your macro, as there is a slight delay in the buff and if you have it as part of your macro, you won't benefit from the 1700 mastery.

Another important thing to consider about trinkets when gear swapping is the internal cooldown of each trinket. In short, if you want to use a trinket in your main set that has an internal cooldown (for me, this is Insignia of the Corrupted Mind), then it needs to be in the same trinket slot in both your mastery gear set and your demonology gear set. Otherwise there will be a long delay before you can make use of its proc.

If one of your mastery gear set trinkets is Moonwell Chalice (which it should be), then the trinket you want in the corresponding trinket slot in your demonology gear set is either Will of Unbinding (because it has no internal cooldown, so there is no delay before you can make use of it) or Cunning of the Cruel (for similar reasons).

You can essentially start any fight with this trick, making it a valuable one to use.

From my guide: Warlock Tips and Tricks and Specific Encounter Guides [4.3]

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Ah I see, this is interesting.

So you could have a mastery set of gear with MWC, pop MWC, switch MWC to fire of the deep quickly, pop Metamorphosis and switch to your normal demo gear?

Does the chance that you "lose" the MWC buff increase if you have a better connection? (noticed you mentioned it relies on the server lag)

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Ah I see, this is interesting.

So you could have a mastery set of gear with MWC, pop MWC, switch MWC to fire of the deep quickly, pop Metamorphosis and switch to your normal demo gear?

Does the chance that you "lose" the MWC buff increase if you have a better connection? (noticed you mentioned it relies on the server lag)

I have done quite a few tests so far and I never didn't get the mastery from MWC, only a few times I didn't get the mastery from the passive trinket.

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