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Jmickey

Demonology in Cataclysm (4.3 Release)

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Lash of Pain is making up 25-29% of my total damage in my encounters, with increasing efefct during movement fights. The closest to LoP is Shadowbolt at 18%.

Has anyone evaluated the value of mastery with the Succubus?

My succubus is getting 5.2k LoP's every global versus my felguard's 2k autoattacks every 2 secs and an average 5k Legion Strike. She wildly outperforms the felguard outside of burst rotations.

I'm seeing this as well. I started really paying attention after reading your post and am seeing that Lash of Pain is doing the single most damage of all my abilities through out a fight.

I just did Rajh in heroic HOO and my succubus did a total of 616K+ damage where as my shadowbolt was my best spell coming in at 480K+

Does this mean that stat weight for mastery may be much higher than we have been calculating?

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Therefore, at this current time (21st December 2010), Your demon of choice will be the Succubus

Then why would we spec into Dark Arts? This talent gives no bonus to a Succubus. Wouldnt those points be better used in a talent that would at least increase our DPS by a small amount, or something that would help us in CC situations like Aura of Foreboding?

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Then why would we spec into Dark Arts? This talent gives no bonus to a Succubus. Wouldnt those points be better used in a talent that would at least increase our DPS by a small amount, or something that would help us in CC situations like Aura of Foreboding?

I agree. Unfortunately there aren't too many great talents, but especially Aura of Foreboding helps in fights like Magmaw. The other point I just put into the Master Summoner in case the succubus dies, you get an instant revive with 50% mana off. Now it is on to wait what changes will be made to Imp. SF and if the succubus remains as strong as she is. For now she clocks in at about 25-30% of my damage on single target fights.

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You take dark arts because you use the felguard on half the fights anyway. Magmaw, Maloriak, Halfus (with whelps), cho'gall (axe throw to interrupt the tenacles in phase 2, felstorm the slime in phase 1), Conclave (plants), and I haven't done nef but I heard he has adds too.

If you want AoF (though keep in mind bad things happen when you root mobs in melee) you should take the points out of demonic rebirth. You can instant out a new pet. Just save a soul shard for it. The loss of 1 soul shard for instant SF is a trivial dps loss.

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According to my recount, my Felguard is doing around 30% of my OVERALL Damage.

This of course is subject to change on specific boss fights, but 30% is pretty significant. Significant to reconsider Mastery as a viable stat. Especially as an Orc Warlock.

Any thoughts/more solid #'s on Mastery?

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The less perfect your rotation is capable of being either through lag, movement, sloppy play, the more your pet will do in relation to you, and the more value mastery will have for demon warlocks. This is also true if fight mechanics allow you to take advantage of demon form like maloriak where you get +100% damage debuff every 2 minutes.

It also might be beneficial to have high mastery in a fight like Chimaeron where the burn phase isn't that long, and DPS matters a lot. So even though it might be less dps overall, its more dps when it matters the most.

Generally speaking its impractical to have radically different gear sets, and/or reforge/regem every fight so you want to go with a best fit approach unless you are a top 200 guild.

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I was wondering about something I cannot work out how to test using Simcraft: specifically using the Felguard whenever Demon Soul is available and then swapping back to the Succubus afterwards.

So assuming that we're starting the encounter with Meta and Demon Soul you'd want to start the encounter with the Felguard out (popping Felstorm as well of course). If we pre-combat Soulburn and Soul Harvest then Soulburn will come off cooldown at about the same time Metamorphosis falls off, where we can use Soulburn to instant out the Succubus for ~2 minutes of her (much higher) dps.

When (or just before) Demon Soul comes off cooldown we can Soulburn out the Felguard, pop the cooldowns (Felstorm included) for a huge damage spike and you can then either leave out the 'guard or Soulburn the Succubus back out again after the cooldown is up depending on how many shards you've got left and the duration of the encounter.

This is obviously only for single-target fights.

This strategy means that we use up our Soul Shards demon swapping instead of being able to use them for instant Soul Fires (not a big worry for me really) and waste some casting or GCD time summoning a demon or two, but makes very good use of the Felstorm and Felguard's Demon Soul effect while still getting the benefit of the Succubus's better long-term dps most of the rest of the time. It also allows us to line up even more explosive cooldowns for extra damage burn phases.

Can anyone spot any obvious flaws with this idea?

Edit: This strategy would also work for Affliction, replacing the Felguard with the Felhound for its significant Demon Soul ability. I doubt it would be worth doing for Destruction.

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With haste being about best stat we can get, doesn't Enchant Boots - Haste would provide better DPS boost than Lavawalker ? or is the run speed improvement so good that you prefer +35 mastery over +50 haste ??

The run speed bonus has always been a must-have: running faster improves survivability and reduces the amount of time spent running (which you can then use to actually do DPS).

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  • Inferno now also increases the duration fo your Immolate by 6 sec.
  • Master Demonologist now increases the damage done by your demon servants and damage you deal while transformed into a demon by 16% (up from 12%). Each point of Mastery increases damage by an additional 2%. (Up from 1.5%)
  • Improved Soul Fire is now a Tier 3 talent, up from Tier 2. No longer increases your spell haste and now increases your Fire and Shadow damage done by 4/8% for 15 sec after you deal damage with Soul Fire. This effect has a 6 sec cooldown.

As has been mentioned in the other forums, the change in ISF is going to hurt both Affliction and Demo locks alot, whereas the change to Mastery might move this stat up from last place to ahead of Crit, and I'm saying might here as I'm waiting on a Simcraft to confirm this.

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Additionally, this would change Demo spec choice to something like 2/31/8 or 3/31/7, probably going for Improved Corruption or Life tap. Obviously you would not choose Aftermath or Scorch (Demo already has Decimate), and there aren't any more DPS boosting talents in Demo, so those 2-3 talents need to move to Rank 1 Aff.

There has to be some additional tweaking to replace ISF for Aff/Demo. That minor Mastery bump will not cover it.

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Additionally, this would change Demo spec choice to something like 2/31/8 or 3/31/7, probably going for Improved Corruption or Life tap. Obviously you would not choose Aftermath or Scorch (Demo already has Decimate), and there aren't any more DPS boosting talents in Demo, so those 2-3 talents need to move to Rank 1 Aff.

Well, it's either that or moving the 2 points spent on ISF to max out SnF for and additional 8% umph to our 2 fillers.

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Shadow & Flame provides much more dps per point than Improved Corruption: they both buff their respective abilities by 4% per point so it's easy to see that as long as your Incinerate + Shadow Bolt damage is greater than your Corruption Damage (and it's likely to be a lot more) then Shadow & Flame will be better.

Plus, Shadow & Flame allows us to guarantee the 5% crit debuff, although Destro Locks will be doing so as well now of course.

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Plus, Shadow & Flame allows us to guarantee the 5% crit debuff, although Destro Locks will be doing so as well now of course.

Yes,and this is also good for 10-mans when a Fire Mage is not present.

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If Inferno goes live increasing the duration of Immolate by 6 seconds then Demonlogy should scale more smoothly with haste as there will no longer be haste thresholds for Immolate given that it will always be refreshed by HoGd.

It would seem to be worth going for a passive 25% haste (an achievable ~16% from gear, or 1992 rating if I've done my maths right) as this provides Shadowflame an extra tick and Corruption its second extra tick increasing the damage of the former and DPET of the latter.

After that Corruption will gain another tick at ~42% haste and then we reach Shadowflame's second extra tick and the GCD cap at 50%, which would increase Shadowflame's damage again but neither of these are passively possible at T11 (requiring a mighty 3965 and 4956 rating respectively).

To recap: the change to Inferno means that Demonology should no longer have haste levels that must be avoided, and means that passive 25% buffed haste at 1992 Haste Rating is an achievable target that provides a particular benefit.

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Figured I might as well post this one here since someone might find it useful.

I encountered a bug on Cho'gall this evening while playing as Demonology. If you get 100 Corruption while in Metamorphosis, you won't transform into a Faceless One, but instead return to your normal form afterwards, still being able to be healed.

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I noticed that in the spell priority list Demon Soul comes before 8 spells which receive no benefit from the Demon Soul buff from the Succubus (increasing the damage of Shadow Bolt). It doesn't seem to merit prioritizing Demon Soul before so many spells that it has no effect on. Especially at the beginning of the fight I would imagine that several seconds of Demon Soul would be wasted while casting the 6 cooldowns and DoTs that are higher priority than Shadow Bolt. In light of that, would it make sense to put Demon Soul just above Shadow Bolt in the priority list?

I should note that if one is switching between Felgaurd and Succubus with Soul Burns, such as during Metamorphosis or the Decimation phase as some have suggested, or using Felgaurd the whole time for a specific fight utility then that argument wouldn't apply, but so far the sims I have seen don't involve doing that.

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As you realized the OP told you a priority system based on the DPS increase by spells, not a rotation. So of course you should use Demon Soul just before you start casting Shadow Bolts. I use the following macro:

#showtooltip shadow bolt

/cast demon soul

/cast shadow bolt

Spam it when nothing else (rated higher in the priority list) to do.

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If using a Succubus having popped Demon Soul and spamming Shadow Bolt: what is the correct priority, if Molten Core procs? Keep casting Shadow Bolt or switch and cast Incinerates?

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If using a Succubus having popped Demon Soul and spamming Shadow Bolt: what is the correct priority, if Molten Core procs? Keep casting Shadow Bolt or switch and cast Incinerates?

Well, assuming that you're the 359 demo warlock used in the Simcraft thread, your Shadow Bolt has a DPET of 9464 (and this is mildly propped up by Demon Soul already) while Incinerate has a DPET of 12083. As the Succubus's Demon Soul boosts Shadow Bolt by 10%, even if we were being generous and ignored the effect it's already had the DPET would only rise to 10410, which is still less than that of Molten Core Incinerate. It's also still less than Decimation Soul Fire (even though its DPET is somewhat depressed by hardcasting it for the buff in the current talent model).

So in short: Demon Soul with the Succubus does not change the dps priority list for the 359 Demo Warlock in the senario from the Simcraft thread. This should give you an indication of just how bad it is!

EDIT: Personally (and I realise this isn't the question you asked) I would swap to the Felguard before casting Demo Soul because his buff is very good indeed and then swap back later. Doesn't change the priority order either though of course!

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The damage bonus from Metamorphosis is only applied to DoTs that were cast during Metamorphosis, not ones that were already on the target. This raises the questions of if it is a good idea to reapply the DoTs before they expire after activating Metamorphosis. For instance, if you have BoA already on the target, it will tick 1 or 2 times during Metamorphosis but without the damage bonus. You would probably have to simcraft this scenario to figure out exactly what the benefits were, but I suspect that you would be better off reapplying every DoT immediately after you transform rather than waiting until they are about to expire, with the possible exception of the Decimate phase -- though it might be beneficial even then. (Another possibility would be letting a dot expire and waiting to cast it until Metamorphosis, but the benefit, or perhaps harm, of doing this would be hard to quantify without simulating it.)

This leads us to an even more interesting idea: reapplying DoTs right before Metamorphosis expires. DoT's that were cast during Metamorphosis continue to benefit from its effects even after your character has left the form. Consider BoA again: if you reapply BoA less than 15 seconds before Metamorphosis expires, you have effectively given yourself another 4 ticks of Metamorphosis enhanced BoA damage while not transformed. Naturally, this applies to all of the Dots, but I suspect that DoTs that have shorter duration/ticks benefit from being reapplied as close to the expiration of Metamorphosis as possible. If you compare BoA to Corruption ticks, for instance, you will see that Corruption would benefit greatly by being cast right before leaving Metamorphosis, whereas BoA receives the same benefit if it is reapplied 14 seconds before Metamorphosis expires or 1 second before.

I don't have any numbers to prove it but I think there is a strong theory argument that these two strategies, especially the later, would allow you to squeeze out some extra DPS.

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The damage bonus from Metamorphosis is only applied to DoTs that were cast during Metamorphosis, not ones that were already on the target. This raises the questions of if it is a good idea to reapply the DoTs before they expire after activating Metamorphosis. For instance, if you have BoA already on the target, it will tick 1 or 2 times during Metamorphosis but without the damage bonus. You would probably have to simcraft this scenario to figure out exactly what the benefits were, but I suspect that you would be better off reapplying every DoT immediately after you transform rather than waiting until they are about to expire, with the possible exception of the Decimate phase -- though it might be beneficial even then. (Another possibility would be letting a dot expire and waiting to cast it until Metamorphosis, but the benefit, or perhaps harm, of doing this would be hard to quantify without simulating it.)

This leads us to an even more interesting idea: reapplying DoTs right before Metamorphosis expires. DoT's that were cast during Metamorphosis continue to benefit from its effects even after your character has left the form. Consider BoA again: if you reapply BoA less than 15 seconds before Metamorphosis expires, you have effectively given yourself another 4 ticks of Metamorphosis enhanced BoA damage while not transformed. Naturally, this applies to all of the Dots, but I suspect that DoTs that have shorter duration/ticks benefit from being reapplied as close to the expiration of Metamorphosis as possible. If you compare BoA to Corruption ticks, for instance, you will see that Corruption would benefit greatly by being cast right before leaving Metamorphosis, whereas BoA receives the same benefit if it is reapplied 14 seconds before Metamorphosis expires or 1 second before.

I don't have any numbers to prove it but I think there is a strong theory argument that these two strategies, especially the later, would allow you to squeeze out some extra DPS.

I would think it would be up to the spell, how many ticks it has left, etc... as casting it again uses the GCD of 1.5s so is the GCD loss more than the gain of the DoT, I think we would find the sim says not in most cases.

On a different note, first page also needs updated to show what will be new sim info when the svn goes live. Suc is not be the best pet for Demo, the sim was incorrectly giving us too much mana back from mana feed and is a net loss on DPS.

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After getting Theralion's Mirror and trying it out on a target dummy for a while i noticed something very intresting. If you activate meta during the proc, the damage bonus meta gains from the extra mastery stays even after the proc has expired. Thats a 16% damage increase for 36 seconds and will be even higher in 4.06.

It might be hard lining up in actual raid encounters due to the trinkets fairly low proc chance (10%) and high ICD (90 seconds) but if you have a bit of luck and timing it can provide a substantial dps increase.

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Well, assuming that you're the 359 demo warlock used in the Simcraft thread, your Shadow Bolt has a DPET of 9464 (and this is mildly propped up by Demon Soul already) while Incinerate has a DPET of 12083. As the Succubus's Demon Soul boosts Shadow Bolt by 10%, even if we were being generous and ignored the effect it's already had the DPET would only rise to 10410, which is still less than that of Molten Core Incinerate. It's also still less than Decimation Soul Fire (even though its DPET is somewhat depressed by hardcasting it for the buff in the current talent model).

So in short: Demon Soul with the Succubus does not change the dps priority list for the 359 Demo Warlock in the senario from the Simcraft thread. This should give you an indication of just how bad it is!

Though this is a very minor point, the above post does not consider the fact that molten core lasts for 15seconds and has a low proc rate.

It is likely more beneficial to hold off on using molten core incinerates until demon soul expires: this is only if the molten core procs in the latter part of demon soul and you will have ample time at the end to use all 3 charges of molten-core-incinerate charges. Though in reality the differences are mostly a wash.

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Demonology will once again be using the Felguard as it's primary demon. It seems that Succubus' Lash of Pain was being modeled as a spell, rather than a melee attack, and not taking into account armor and the like.

See here:

http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t110222-simulationcraft_warlocks_cataclysm_edition_4_0_3a_4_0_6_a/p11/#post1845907

It might be worth noting however, that on fights like Atremedes, where there are constant Air Phases, out of reach of the Felguard, that the glyphed Succubus will fair better than the Felguard.

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