Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Esoth

[Cataclysm] - Survival Hunter

627 posts in this topic

This is the thread for Survival hunter discussion for Cataclysm.

=Damage Abilities=

Explosive Shot

Our primary nuke ability. You want to use this as often as possible and it costs a fair amount of focus

Black Arrow

Shadow damage over time with a long cooldown. It has low DPS but a very high DPCT (damage per casting time), so you will want to use it on targets that will be alive long enough to get the full effect. This also has a chance to proc Lock and Load on ticks.

Serpent Sting

Since Cobra Shot refreshes this, you will only have to apply it once per target in most cases. Noxious Stings also allows you to do 10% more damage to mobs afflicted with this sting. Like Black Arrow, it also has low DPS but a very high DPCT (theoretically infinite, with cobra shot refreshing it).

Arcane Shot

This is our focus dump ability. No cooldown, 25 focus (22 with 3/3 Efficiency). Survival uses a bit more focus for primary shots than other specs so arcane shot usage is normally relatively low compared to others.

Cobra Shot

Always use this in place of Steady Shot. Generates 9 focus and refreshes Serpent Sting.

Hunter's Mark

AP bonus, always put this up before combat if possible.

Multi Shot

A very strong AoE ability for Survival. See the AoE section for more detail.

Explosive Trap

Shares a cooldown with Black Arrow, but does more damage on multi mob situations in which they stay in the affected area for the duration (20 seconds). It also ticks every 2 seconds, 10 times, which gives it a slightly higher chance to proc Lock and Load, even on single targets. Explosive Trap does not stack with that of other hunters, so only one hunter will be able to use this on a given area. (now stacks)

Immolation Trap

Right now it looks like this cannot crit and flat out does less damage on single target than explosive trap

Kill Shot

Not quite as strong as it used to be (150% weapon damage, down from 200%) but still quite powerful. One of its main benefits is that it costs no focus.

=Aspects=

In Cataclysm we have two important aspects during fights: Hawk and Fox. For PVE, the primary benefit of each is that Hawk provides additional AP and Fox allows you to cast Cobra Shot while moving. Ideally, you will not have to use Fox and can do all of your movement while casting instant shot casts (everything but Cobra Shot) and in between auto shot casts. In practice, there will probably be times when you want to move while not having the focus for instant cast shots. Aspects are on a separate global cooldown (GCD) from other abilities, so you can swap between Hawk and Fox without losing a GCD for damage abilities.

=Rotation=

The most basic priority for single targets will be something like this:

1. Apply Serpent Sting, especially for the Noxious Stings effect.

2. Explosive Shot

3. If mob is below 20% health, Kill Shot

4. If mob will be alive long enough, Black Arrow

5. If you will have enough focus to use Explosive Shot and Black Arrow, use Arcane Shot

6. Cobra Shot

This becomes much more complicated to execute in practice for a few reasons. One, Thrill of the Hunt procs lead to a somewhat unpredictable focus regeneration rate. Two, number 5 can be difficult to compute since you would also want to take into account how much focus you will regenerate in the time before those abilities come off of cooldown. Generally, it is fine to pool focus so long as you are not capping (reaching 100 focus) or delaying abilities that use a cooldown. Pooling too much focus is probably not ideal because it can quickly lead to capping focus with a string of Thrill of the Hunt procs or a Lock and Load proc.

=Lock and Load=

With damage over time abilities now refreshing without wasting a dot, "interleaving" a cobra shot between procs is less viable. Instead we can more quickly use our explosive shots without wasting charges. Simply spamming Explosive Shot will result in 8 ticks, with 1 lost. Before 4.2 this would have been 7 ticks. If you wait a small fraction of a second after the 1 second GCD, it should be sufficient to get all 9 ticks quickly. This would be 9 explosive shot ticks in about 3.3 seconds assuming you wait 0.1 between each. This is almost always the best usage on single target, although there may be times when filling in an instant cast ability such as kill shot is worthwhile.

=Talents=

==Survival Talents==

Hunter vs. Wild - Optional. To some extent you have about 2 free points to spend in the first two tiers.

Pathing - Required. The talents at this level are not incredibly strong, but this should be a clear win.

Improved Serpent Sting - Required. On single target, the periodic critical strike chance is good and on AoE the interaction with Serpent Spread is very powerful.

Survival Tactics - Optional.

Trap Mastery - Required. At the very least, the boost to Black Arrow is worth it.

Entrapment - Optional. Probably encounter specific for PVE.

Point of No Escape - Optional. Bosses will not trigger Frost Trap and the crit bonus now only affects you, so this talent is fairly weak.

Thrill of the Hunt - Required. This is a substantial amount of focus.

Counterattack - Not Recommended. You will not be doing much parrying in raids.

Lock and Load - Required. For its interaction with T.N.T.

Resourcefulness - Recommended. Black Arrow is strong now, but the internal cooldown on LNL procs may diminish the efficacy of this talent.

Mirrored Blades - Optional. Possibly situational for PVE.

T.N.T. - Required. More Explosive Shots is a good thing.

Toxicology - Required. This is a very powerful talent, even with entry level crit chance.

Wyvern Sting - Required. This is a prerequisite for Noxious Stings and Black Arrow.

Noxious Stings - Required. Incredibly powerful talent. 10% damage is a lot.

Hunting Party - Required. Even with this buff already covered in your raid, it is probably worth it for the 2% agility alone.

Sniper Training - Required. The Kill Shot crit chance remains unchanged from WotLK, but the 6% buff now only applies to Cobra Shot. Still worthwhile but less important to maintain on movement intensive phases.

Serpent Spread - Recommended. This talent has no effect on single targets but is incredibly powerful in multi target situations. See the AoE section. You may only want to include 1 point since the only difference is a 6 vs. 9 second duration, and in a heavy AoE situation you will be using another Multi Shot before it wears off.

Black Arrow - Required. High DPCT ability.

==Marksmanship Talents==

Go for the Throat - Required. See the pet section for more details, but obtaining more focus for pets is now a worthwhile pursuit.

Efficiency - Required. 6 focus reduction for Explosive Shot and 3 focus reduction for Arcane Shot

Rapid Killing - Not Recommended.

Sic 'Em! - Optional. For the same reason as Go for the Throat.

Improved Steady Shot - Not Recommended. Not worth using over Cobra Shot.

Careful Aim - Optional - Not very strong, but potentially better than some pet focus talents depending on pet focus regeneration.

==Beast Mastery Talents==

Improved Kill Command - Not Recommended. Kill Command is not worth the high focus cost for Survival.

One with Nature - Optional. With the 4.0.6 buff to Aspect of the Hawk, this is a decent talent now.

Bestial Discipline - Optional. Recommended if your pet is not getting the full benefit of Wild Hunt every time. You can fill this talent at the expense of Careful Aim on fights where the first 20% of damage is insignificant.

Sample build:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

==Glyphs==

With either the T12 4pc or the T13 2pc making the build less focus intensive, arcane shots are more frequent than in T11 and should put that glyph ahead

Recommended Prime Glyphs

Explosive Shot - 6% crit

Kill Shot - effectively lets you do back to back Kill Shot

Arcane Shot - 12% Arcane Shot damage

Other Considerations

Serpent Sting - 6% crit

From a damage perspective, there are no required major glyphs for every scenario, although Trap Launcher is recommended for any AoE situations (with Explosive Trap). The others are great options for PVP but in PVE their viability would depend on the encounter. Another potential glyph is the Glyph of Misdirection, which would let you chain MDs on your pet if you get into a threat limited situation.

=Pets=

Pets now do a decent amount of damage for Survival hunters. They inherit 100% of the hunter's hit, haste, and crit, and scale considerably from AP. Each pet will have a focus dump (claw, bite, or smack; all of which are functionally equal) and an additional ability that is a buff, debuff, or some kind of utility such as an interrupt or stun - but NOT damage. Pet family only matters indirectly, in that it determines which special ability it will have and which talent tree (Ferocity, Cunning, or Tenacity) it uses. Aside from the special ability of the pets, two pets with the same talent tree will do the same damage, i.e. a monkey will be the same as a spider in terms of damage.

Ferocity and Cunning are fairly close in terms of damage potential. The former's main benefit is the 10% AP from Call of the Wild which can be stacked with procs and cooldowns.

Cunning: Hunter Pet Calculator - Wowhead

The main debatable point here is the lack of Boar's Speed. Owl's Focus, in conjunction with Wild Hunt, is particularly powerful.

Ferocity: Hunter Pet Calculator - Wowhead (1 extra point for either finishing up Wild Hunt, or getting 1 point in Shark Attack)

There are a couple debatable points. First, the point in Boar's Speed can go into either Blood Thirsty or Charge if needed. More importantly, the value between Wild Hunt and Shark Attack is likely to depend on pet focus regeneration from your own talents. Keep in mind that Wild Hunt now does more damage the more focus your pet has, making it much more powerful than it was in WotLK.

=AoE=

Survival is currently the highest hunter AoE spec by quite a bit.

==Multi Shot/Serpent Spread==

Multi Shot takes advantage of several talents:

Serpent Spread - Applies 6/9 second duration Serpent Sting. For situations in which you are casting Multi Shot every 6 seconds only one talent point is needed.

Improved Serpent Sting - A large portion of your Multi Shot damage will actually come from this.

Toxicology - Serpent Sting crits for 200%, unlike 150% for other hunter specializations.

Noxious Stings - Subsequent Multi Shots will do 10% more damage.

==Explosive Trap==

Explosive Trap is your other AoE ability which again does more damage than other hunter specializations because of Trap Mastery and Resourcefulness. It has a small base damage (29 per tick) but with a 54.5% RAP coefficient it does a substantial amount of damage. It is also our most efficient ability by far, costing 0 focus if dropped in place or 20 focus with Trap Launcher (10 focus glyphed). Lastly, with 10 ticks, it has a higher chance of proccing Lock and Load than Black Arrow, even on a single target. A full duration explosive trap will surpass Black Arrow in DPS on just two targets. Explosive Trap's major caveat is obviously that it requires the target(s) to stay in the targeted area for 20 seconds for full effect, making it impractical on some fights. It also does not stack over the explosive trap of another hunter; only one of you will get the benefit. (now usable by multiple hunters)

=Stats=

For less generalized stat weights, it is recommended that you use your gear in Zeherah's DPS Analyzer or similar tool.

Agility

Your best stat, by far, with the possible exception of hit. One agility provides two AP and 1/324.85 critical strike percent, before scaling. Into the Wilderness (Survival specialization) boosts this by 15%, you get 5% from wearing mail, 5% from raid buffs, and 2% from Hunting Party. These stack multiplicatively for a 29.32% increase.

Hit

Gearing for the hit cap is generally a good idea. Ranged attacks have a 8% chance to miss against mobs 3 levels higher than us and each point of hit rating gives us 1/120.109%, so we need 961 hit to reach this, or 841 for draenei.

Crit

Almost all abilities crit for 200% damage, or 206% damage with a [item]Agile Shadowspirit Diamond[/item]. Some exceptions include Explosive Trap which uses spell crit damage (and crit chance) - 150%, or immolation trap which cannot crit. Thanks to Toxicology, Serpent Sting and Black Arrow crit at 200% like your shots. 179.28 Crit rating gives 1% crit at level 85.

Haste

Haste affects both the speed of your shots (cobra and auto) and your rate of focus regeneration. You need 128.057 haste rating to get 1% haste. Haste effects generally scale multiplicatively. If you have 32% haste from gear, 3% from Pathing, and Rapid Fire, a base casting time of X would now be X/1.32/1.03/1.4. Procs that increase haste rating will stack additively with your total haste rating value (32% in this example). Focus regeneration appears to be a base of 4 focus per second scaling multiplicatively with haste; i.e. 30% haste would be 4*1.3=5.2 fps. You will likely not see a huge increase in focus regen from upgrading gear.

Mastery

All of our "spell" (non-physical) damage is affected by this stat. This is almost all of our abilities except for auto shot and multi shot. By specializing in Survival you get 8% elemental damage plus 1% per percent of mastery. At level 85, 179.28 mastery (same as crit) gives 1% damage. Mastery also reportedly affects various non-hunter abilities and procs, such as [item]Darkmoon Card: Hurricane[/item] and engineering effects. (Source)

==Relative Power of Stats==

Relative to each other, Agi is significantly greater than any other stat with Hit a bit behind. The three remaining secondary stats are fairly close in value. Crit is favored over Mastery with current gear, while Haste is somewhat less clear but is likely better than Mastery.

Haste is also subject to numerous situations where its benefit to special abilities is diminished due to not being able to fit in an extra cobra shot before reaching a theoretical threshold. For instance, a common window is the 6 second window between Explosive Shots. 1 second is due to the GCD, but exactly 3 Cobra Shots can be fit into the remaining 5 seconds if they are hasted to 1.67 seconds each. This is a 20% haste increase, so assuming 3% Pathing and 10% Hunting Party, the rest would be obtained with 757 haste rating. More haste than this would mean we either delay Explosive Shot in favor of a fourth Cobra Shot (not ideal at haste close to 20%) or we would have a short wait time resulting in no DPS increase for special shots in this time window. Keep in mind that auto shot damage is not subject to these thresholds and will always increase steadily. We would also want to consider other time windows where the threshold is different, such as under the effect of haste procs/bloodlust or when using other 1 second special shots between Explosive Shots.

Finally, it should be noted that no stat should be examined in a vacuum. They function together and change the relative value of each other. For example, acquiring more crit will increase the power of mastery relative to its power before that crit. Although in current gear choosing crit over mastery in more situations would be ideal, substituting ALL mastery for crit would probably not be preferred over balancing them in terms of some ratio. This post may be informative on the subject.

==Enchants==

Head: [item]Arcanum of the Ramkahen[/item] (Ramkahen Revered)

Shoulders: [item]Greater Inscription of Shattered Crystal[/item] (Therazane Revered) or Swiftsteel Inscription (Scribes only)

Cloak: [item]Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Agility[/item]

Chest: [item]Enchant Chest - Peerless Stats[/item]

Wrist: Enchant Bracer - Agility or Draconic Embossment - Agility (Leatherworkers only)

Gloves: [item]Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Major Agility[/item]

Legs: [item]Dragonscale Leg Armor[/item]

Boots: [item]Enchant Boots - Assassin's Step[/item] (if not using [item]Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond[/item]. Movement speed is somewhat less powerful as a DPS increase in the age of Aspect of the Fox as well.) [item]Enchant Boots - Major Agility[/item]

Two-Hand Weapon: Enchant 2H Weapon - Mighty Agility

Ranged: [item]Flintlocke's Woodchucker[/item]

Please note that the three enchants here that use Wrath of the Lich King mats are actually not cheap alternatives to Cataclysm enchants. They are superior or at least on par with the Cataclysm alternatives.

==Gems==

Gem choices are fairly obvious now that our only viable meta gem is [item]Agile Shadowspirit Diamond[/item]. Agility is more than twice as valuable as any secondary stat, so with superior quality gems the only socket bonuses worth picking up are those that give 20 agility or more. For example, the tier helmet and chest. Other sockets can safely be filled with [item]Delicate Inferno Ruby[/item] with socket bonuses ignored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Required Prime Glyphs:

Arcane Shot - 12% Arcane Shot damage

Kill Shot - effectively lets you do back to back Kill Shot

Recommended Prime Glyphs:

Explosive Shot - 6% crit

Serpent Sting - 6% crit

Arcane Shot and Kill Shot are clear winners for prime glyphs, with Explosive Shot and Serpent sting fairly close contenders for that third glyph. Glyph of Rapid Fire is not recommended.

Not exactly correct.

First, Explosive Shot is mandatory. It is, by far, the best SV glyph. Arcane Shot and Kill Shot glyphs are well below but should be the other two glyphs that raiding hunters use. Second, Serpent Sting glyph is actually very weak and about on par with Rapid Fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not exactly correct.

First, Explosive Shot is mandatory. It is, by far, the best SV glyph. Arcane Shot and Kill Shot glyphs are well below but should be the other two glyphs that raiding hunters use. Second, Serpent Sting glyph is actually very weak and about on par with Rapid Fire.

Thanks. Can I assume you are getting this from Rivkah's analyzer? I checked again with that in my current gear and a BIS set and both agree with you. I just want to be able to provide a source.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hardly ever find time to Arcane shot. I'm almost never focus capped either. I only use it when i get a Lock n load proc.

I'd really love to see a video of someone's survival rotation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

got exactly the same issue - i can count the arcanes i shoot in a hero bossfight on one hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use Arcane Shot on lock and load procs, will the 12% extra damage over the duration of the entire fight do more damage than the 6% extra crit from Serpent Sting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks. Can I assume you are getting this from Rivkah's analyzer? I checked again with that in my current gear and a BIS set and both agree with you. I just want to be able to provide a source.

Aye.

As for the number of arcane shots performed, I find that in a raid rotation that I can manage one per ~15 seconds, and then several during heroism. The randomness of LnL also means that I can occasionally get a few more off if I come out of the LnL proc with high focus.

The 6% serpent sting crit is, at best 50-60 dps. Unless a fight's mechanics reduce one's focus regen enough to nearly eliminate arcane shots, glyphing serpent sting will be less useful.

4. Explosive Shot, Arcane Shot, Explosive Shot

Arcane Shot actually uses the second charge, but blows through the LNL proc quickly.

DPS: (32700*2+17500)/3 = 27633.33

For high focus, I have heard claims that Explosive->Kill Command->Explosive->Cobra?->Explosive? may be better. Kill Command does roughly the same average damage as Arcane Shot for SV, but doesn't consume a charge.

Edit: Perhaps you could emphasize that haste is the preferred secondary stat until the ~1000 range (items with haste procs confuse the exact value), and then it dramatically falls in value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hardly ever find time to Arcane shot. I'm almost never focus capped either. I only use it when i get a Lock n load proc.

I'd really love to see a video of someone's survival rotation.

Survival rotation is basically ES, Cobra Shot, BA if it does not delay your next explosive shot. This is assuming serpent sting is on the boss already. You rarely have enough excess focus to cast an arcane shot on a boss fight.

Then I have a keybind with a cast sequence macro for fox/dragonhawk for movement fights.

About serpent sting glyph, it basically comes down to how many arcane shots Rivkah's Analyzer assumes in a boss fight. Also does the analyzer assume infinite focus? It probably does not but so far rarely see myself having chances to fire off arcane shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using a 359 gearset and a 5 minute fight length, one would only have to fire 10.5 Arcane Shots to make glyphing Arcane Shot directly equal to glyphing Serpent Sting. With all the extra focus from a combination of Rapid Fire, Heroism and Roar of Recovery, one would have to screw up considerably to not fire the 11 (over 5 minutes) Arcane Shots required to overtake glyph of Serpent Sting.

**If mechanics reduce focus gain, then glyph o' SS would probably edge out ahead slightly.**

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive been testing several gear setups, i did initially sway away from haste as a stat, ive noticed with my gear which has a majority of hit/crit/mastery (and reforged haste into hit) the rotation seems very sluggish compared to a more hasted gear setup from the items i had during levelling. has anyone else noticed this at all?

With regards to careful aim, i was havign a discussion with my fellow hunters in my guild, i couldnt see how we could justify the tallent considering it is only active for 20% of a fight, i leant towards the + aspect of the hawk boost seeing as it will be consistant throughout the entire fight (unless aspect of the fox is required for certain boss mechanics)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With regards to careful aim, i was havign a discussion with my fellow hunters in my guild, i couldnt see how we could justify the tallent considering it is only active for 20% of a fight, i leant towards the + aspect of the hawk boost seeing as it will be consistant throughout the entire fight (unless aspect of the fox is required for certain boss mechanics)

Because having nearly 100% Cobra crit rate for the first 20% of a multi-million HP mob ends up being better than a mere 127 extra RAP (when you effectively have 15-20k RAP already). Cobra Shot is the second highest source of damage for SV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At high focus say 80 you would want something like - Explosive - Kill Command - Explosive - Arcane - Explosive but thats just a general example , depending also on your focus regeneration at the moment. At any point you want to dump your focus without caping it, but i would never waste ES for AS.

As for builds: X / 9 / 31 in any form makes the most sence to me - Focused Aim is strong and will get even more powerful with gear and increasing boss health.

And Neruse is right about glyph of AS, the statement that you cant find your self in situations to use it is false, as you certainly get to arcane shot often enough to make the glyph worth, and can be confirmed by a sim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd also like tosee the potential dps of a lock and load using Kill command if focus is high enough.

I'm looking for clarification on how the internal cooldown on lock and load works. It seems I've managed to proc two in relatively quick succession which has made me question my understanding of it.

Finally, I'm curious with current understanding of stat weighting etc, is it still healthy to aim for a self buffed 1.5 second cobra cast? How much haste would we need for this now at 85?

Great work on the survival guide by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd also like tosee the potential dps of a lock and load using Kill command if focus is high enough.

I'm looking for clarification on how the internal cooldown on lock and load works. It seems I've managed to proc two in relatively quick succession which has made me question my understanding of it.

Finally, I'm curious with current understanding of stat weighting etc, is it still healthy to aim for a self buffed 1.5 second cobra cast? How much haste would we need for this now at 85?

Great work on the survival guide by the way.

Around 2265 Haste Rating (17.687% Haste) with 3/3 pathing and WF or Equivalent. AND 0 Latency :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should also considering adding stat priorities and best professions for survival to the post.

Great job so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally, I'm curious with current understanding of stat weighting etc, is it still healthy to aim for a self buffed 1.5 second cobra cast? How much haste would we need for this now at 85?

Unless there's something I'm overlooking, I don't see the value of a 1.5 cobra shot, specifically, when your GCD is now one seconds if you're trying to squeeze 3 cobra between your explosive shot cooldowns. To do that, you need a (6-1)/3= 1.66(repeating) cobra shot cast time which is 758 haste rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unless there's something I'm overlooking, I don't see the value of a 1.5 cobra shot, specifically, when your GCD is now one seconds if you're trying to squeeze 3 cobra between your explosive shot cooldowns. To do that, you need a (6-1)/3= 1.66(repeating) cobra shot cast time which is 758 haste rating.

He wants to fill up the window between explosive shots, with 4 cobra shots, which doesnt occur all the time due to a) moving, b) using 1s gcd shots like BA or AS , but i think thats what hes question was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He wants to fill up the window between explosive shots, with 4 cobra shots, which doesnt occur all the time due to a) moving, b) using 1s gcd shots like BA or AS , but i think thats what hes question was.

4 cobra shots between ExS would require a 1.25 cast.

3 cobras+1 sec GCD like BA or As would require a 1.33(repeating) cast time.

I'm not sure what effect latency has on this. I was interested on what how you guys feel we should approach latency now with the new queueing system.

How useful is the pet skill 'Roar of Courage'?

Any specific pets you'd recommend for Ferocity or Cunning?

Like all other pets that bring buffs and debuffs, cats are extremely valuable if they're providing a buff or debuff that your raid doesn't have. Roar of courage doesn't stack with Battle Shout, Horn of Winter and Strength of Earth totem but is a huge dps gain if those buffs aren't present.

As for ferocity vs cunning, I'm personally seeing cunning ahead by 123 dps in femaledwarf.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tested kill command on a target dummy, yes I understand without raid buffs. Kill Command was doing half the damage as my arcane shot. I do not see how it would ever scale high enough even with raid buffs/debuffs versus arcane shot plus our mastery talent.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Notice he had 4 arcane shots for that fight, its very rare to have arcane shot as a focus dump outside of using it for lock and load. During that fight he had 7 lock and load procs. Its quite possible he prioritized BA over arcane shot during LnL procs or he had decided that he needed to regen his focus during LnL procs and fired cobra shot instead. It is the main reason why I am using the Serpent Sting glyph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I very rarely have enough focus to use Arcane shot as focus dump. Not sure if others have higher haste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I very rarely have enough focus to use Arcane shot as focus dump. Not sure if others have higher haste.

For SV it's not just haste that affects this but our crit too. I've noticed during rapidfire if I get a string of crits (which then partially refund the focus cost) I easily focus cap and have to sometimes use a string of arcane shots to keep from becoming focus capped. This seems to happen more during rapidfire, berserking or bloodlust where the combinations of crit proc from a trinket + haste buff leads to focus capping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have tested kill command on a target dummy, yes I understand without raid buffs. Kill Command was doing half the damage as my arcane shot. I do not see how it would ever scale high enough even with raid buffs/debuffs versus arcane shot plus our mastery talent.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Notice he had 4 arcane shots for that fight, its very rare to have arcane shot as a focus dump outside of using it for lock and load. During that fight he had 7 lock and load procs. Its quite possible he prioritized BA over arcane shot during LnL procs or he had decided that he needed to regen his focus during LnL procs and fired cobra shot instead. It is the main reason why I am using the Serpent Sting glyph.

Even with kill command producing less damage than an Arcane Shot, it still would appear optimal to use it over arcane in the LnL proc when you are near focus cap, just because it doesn't waste the LnL proc on an Arcane Shot. KC is just there as a big focus dump, then allowing you to use the LnL procs on Explosives (ES>KC>ES>AS>ES).

In regards to the pet situation, I still find Ferocity to come up ahead of Cunning by about 23 dps in Zeherah's Analyzer. Also, at the standard current gear level of mostly heroic blues and a few epics, crit is still showing as a higher weight than haste according to my calculations on Zeherah's. Although, it seems that the haste weight is not set in stone at all, and changes drastically with simple changes to gear.

I also find myself using Arcane Shot enough in a fight to warrant AS Glyph over SS Glyph. 10-12 AS's in a 5 minute fight seems very standard, and you're most likely overcapping focus if you're producing much lower Arcanes than that.

What are the thoughts on BA before ES at the start of a fight? Getting black arrow up that much faster to provide LnL procs would seem most optimal. In that case, the opening rotation would look like (SS>BA>(Rapid Fire, Call of Wild, etc.)>ES>CS)

-Dark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In regards to the pet situation, I still find Ferocity to come up ahead of Cunning by about 23 dps in Zeherah's Analyzer. Also, at the standard current gear level of mostly heroic blues and a few epics, crit is still showing as a higher weight than haste according to my calculations on Zeherah's. Although, it seems that the haste weight is not set in stone at all, and changes drastically with simple changes to gear.

I wonder what's causing ferocity to show as higher in FD than cunning for some, and the reverse order for others. At the 359 gear level it appears cunning is a few hundred dps higher but as I manually added stats using custom gear, ferocity started to pull ahead. Wild Hunt is a huge dps increase for pets and ferocity has lower uptime at our current gear level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.