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# Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011]

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If it can chain-proc itself would that not lead to it being the new "gets better the more you have of it" stat ala arpen? Unless I'm looking at it improperly. If that is the case, it certainly seems unlikely blizz would willingly implement such a mechanic given how much displeasure they expressed during wotlk.

Yes, it is an infinite chain which (assuming that the chance of procing is below 100%) can be expressed 1/(1-m) where m is the proc-chance. Deriving it twice in respect to m we get -2/(m-1)^3 that for x<1 is a positive number. As such the value will diverge - or in other words the value of mastery will increase as the accumulated mastery increases. By how much and how fast someone better will eventually tell you assuming that is the actual situation.

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Yes, it is an infinite chain which (assuming that the chance of procing is below 100%) can be expressed 1/(1-m) where m is the proc-chance. Deriving it twice in respect to m we get -2/(m-1)^3 that for x<1 is a positive number. As such the value will diverge - or in other words the value of mastery will increase as the accumulated mastery increases. By how much and how fast someone better will eventually tell you assuming that is the actual situation.

To simplify this a little bit, he's basically saying Mastery will be worth more EP as you have more because you can "chain" more MG procs.

[e] For whatever reason, you can also derive the equation once in order to find the desired mastery to maintain a certain proc chance.

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1) No, Instant appears to be better still.

2) Yes, its still only useful at 4pts.

Is it possible that with the RvS change we should drop SS glyph and take another (say rupture , SnD , AR) to never waste a combo point and using RvS more conveniently in the cycle??

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Is it possible that with the RvS change we should drop SS glyph and take another (say rupture , SnD , AR) to never waste a combo point and using RvS more conveniently in the cycle??

The increased damage from finishers due to the RvS buff, indirectly makes the SS glyph and the extra combo points it generates, even more powerful.

If anything, SS glyph is the even more obvious choice now.

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Because of RvS beeing buffed and finishers remaining unchanged, I'd assume that the value of the RvS glyph should remain unchanged as well, as it stacks additively with the RvS buff and not multiplicatively.

In the FAQ (edit) the SnD glyph was shown to be the third choice for the Prime Glyph slots.

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In the Spoon's spreadsheet the SnD glyph was shown to be the third choice for the Prime Glyph slots.

That was pre-Cata though (and even so just a hack to Lightshadow's sheet), so that may have changed since then.

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Aldriana,

Is there any validity to using RvS at 2 CP so you have the chance to get the final 2 CP on a glyphed SS? I assume provided it happens that way itâ€™s a DPS boost, but if you have to use 2 more SS to finish, itâ€™s probably the opposite?

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Aldriana,

Is there any validity to using RvS at 2 CP so you have the chance to get the final 2 CP on a glyphed SS? I assume provided it happens that way itâ€™s a DPS boost, but if you have to use 2 more SS to finish, itâ€™s probably the opposite?

Using RvS at any point other than exactly 4 CP's runs an identical risk of wasting a Combo Point from a GoSS proc. The only difference between using RvS at 2, followed by two Sinister Strikes, the latter of which is a proc, and using it at 5 CP's is that when the former happens, you don't realize you wasted a CP.

The reason you only use RvS at 4, is because it's the only time you can use RvS during which you can be certain that you won't end up having to Sinister Strike at 4 CP's. Because every time you have to do that, there is a 20% chance of wasting a Combo Point.

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That was pre-Cata though

My fault Spoon. I was confusing your Spreadsheet with the FAQ made by Aldriana: "For a third glyph, Slice and Dice is the current leader, but both Rupture and Revealing Strike seem reasonably competitive."

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Because of RvS beeing buffed and finishers remaining unchanged, I'd assume that the value of the RvS glyph should remain unchanged as well, as it stacks additively with the RvS buff and not multiplicatively.

In the FAQ (edit) the SnD glyph was shown to be the third choice for the Prime Glyph slots.

While the glyph will provide the same increase in finisher damage as it does currently, the buff to RvS makes the RvS glyph even less attractive when compared to other glyphs (primarily rupture glyph).

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think tank this... if energy capping is going to become a problem can we not drop relentess strikes?

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It'll only be worthwhile to do so if the value of relentless strikes minus the value of the energy lost to capping is less than the value of the next best alternative for those 3 talent points. In the past relentless strikes has been very far ahead of any other low-tier ability in dps value so it's unlikely. That said I imagine figuring out the dps value of energy lost to capping (only in the few seconds after a RS proc) is somewhat tricky (it's certainly beyond my mathematical skills).

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During Deep Insight, is it still better to put up SnD if it falls off or should I keep pumping out the other finishers?

I'm guessing a 1CP SnD would be optimal to keep it going without wasting too much potential damage.

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SnD is the bread and butter of combat's damage. It increases every aspect of your damage spread because it affects white attacks, poisons, and specials through combat potency. It should never ever be voluntarily left down. Maybe loatheb, but probably not even then.

Even with deep insight you should be maintaining roughly the standard rotation; anticipate that snd is about to fall off and get as many cps as possible to refresh it with. 1 cp will mean you need to refresh it again during deep insight and is far from ideal. It's better than not refreshing it, but usually a 1 cp snd is not efficient enough to be worth it. The "it doesn't matter how many cps you refresh it with" isn't meant to convey that all cp levels are equally efficient for snd, it's meant to convey that you need to refresh it immediately regardless of how many cps you have. The only change is that you shouldn't be applying a rupture during deep insight.

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SnD is the bread and butter of combat's damage. It increases every aspect of your damage spread because it affects white attacks, poisons, and specials through combat potency. It should never ever be voluntarily left down. Maybe loatheb, but probably not even then.

Even with deep insight you should be maintaining roughly the standard rotation; anticipate that snd is about to fall off and get as many cps as possible to refresh it with. 1 cp will mean you need to refresh it again during deep insight and is far from ideal. It's better than not refreshing it, but usually a 1 cp snd is not efficient enough to be worth it. The "it doesn't matter how many cps you refresh it with" isn't meant to convey that all cp levels are equally efficient for snd, it's meant to convey that you need to refresh it immediately regardless of how many cps you have. The only change is that you shouldn't be applying a rupture during deep insight.

While everything you say about keeping up SnD at all times is 100% true, your point about SnD being inefficient at 1 cp is not always true, depending on talents/glyphs. For myself, my 1cp SnD is 23 seconds, as compared to 41 seconds at 5cp. If someone didn't have SnD glyphed, then it could be optimal to get more CPs for it, but a 1cp SnD is perfectly fine if you have it glyphed.

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From what I am understanding the new combat mastery is a Main-Hand attack for 100% damage that can proc its self and also can proc Combat Potency, and its self. It looks like rogues have the old windfury totem to them selves, and part of me thinks this may bring mastery up over haste for EP value, just needs more testing I believe.

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From what I am understanding the new combat mastery is a Main-Hand attack for 100% damage that can proc its self and also can proc Combat Potency, and its self. It looks like rogues have the old windfury totem to them selves, and part of me thinks this may bring mastery up over haste for EP value, just needs more testing I believe.

From testing Ive been doing on the PTR its lost the Combat Potency ability (100 MG procs, 0 CP procs), I'm not sure if that is a drop in its EP or a gain with todays changes tho.

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From testing Ive been doing on the PTR its lost the Combat Potency ability (100 MG procs, 0 CP procs), I'm not sure if that is a drop in its EP or a gain with todays changes tho.

How did you test this by the way? Because if your auto attacking and getting no CP procs there could be just a bug.

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How did you test this by the way? Because if your auto attacking and getting no CP procs there could be just a bug.

I used Wildflowers in my ofhand, so I dont hit with it, I also checked by standing at an angle and only using SS (with a dagger in offhand) it still procs MG, both yield 0 CP return.

Edit, and yes if I stand normaly and use a dagger I get CP procs from offhand hits.

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I would think that the 5% increase in AP from vitality (not to mention energy regen) would also help the damage of an extra MH hit

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I used Wildflowers in my ofhand, so I dont hit with it, I also checked by standing at an angle and only using SS (with a dagger in offhand) it still procs MG, both yield 0 CP return.

Edit, and yes if I stand normaly and use a dagger I get CP procs from offhand hits.

And I presume you also get CP procs when MH=Dagger OH=Wild flowers just auto attacking? My thoughts are that the Wild flowers prevent an OH attack from happening and may be preventing CP from happening even if MG is a MH swing, it may be working off the OH for the actual ability to register.

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Wouldn't the 5% energy regen from the Vitality buff make up for the loss of CP proc from MG hits?

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Vitality didn't get an energy regen buff. It was already at 25% for regen. It's the AP buff that was only at 20% and has now been increased to 25%.

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So what is the net effect on DPS/EP value if Mastery no longer procs CP?

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While the new changes for combat look like things are going in the right direction, especially redirect for add changes, one of the major issues still remains' that the mass energy regen overbundance, which will only get worse over time.

Usually its fine in a fight until you pop Adreneline rush and get a lot of procs from CP, also gaining more energy from your finishers which leads to getting so much you can't get rid of it fast enough in a global. Might be better if they nerfed the amount of energy regen from AR a little and gave something else instead to make up for it. Or make revealing strike not cost a global might make things a little easier in the rotation as well.

I find that the only time really I struggle to get rid of mass energy. Sometimes during heroism as well.