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Seonid

Cataclysm Arcane Mage Compendium

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Can anyone tell me why they buffed everything by 13% ? It seems to be a very big buff, especially if we consider how long it took them to realize Arcane needs a change(and not by making ab even cheaper).

If these changes go live we do more damage, but it is still only ab spam as much as possible which is kinda dull in the long run :(

But it is nice that we can use blizzard now as an aoe. AE still sucks without the AB Buff and will be very situational.

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I have updated the OP with a section on the Arcane specific PTR changes and I will continue to update that section as more changes occur. Given that the PTR is typically a fluid environment, I thought it would help us if a list of changes was in one place. The flat 13% increase in damage does not really affect any of the rotations or the phases, but the changes to AE might bring the Improved Arcane Explosion talent more into focus.

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I have not yet run any tests, but wouldn't we need to see something more added to arcane explosion to make it a viable aoe. I was thinking of having it refresh the AB blast stacks when you cast arcane explosion. Do they really expect us to cast an AB to keep our stacks up while AOE'n. Seems as though it would really hinder our AOE if we have to do so. You could use POM to refresh it once, but after that you have to stop and cast AB. Maybe I'm wrong tho, has anyone done any tests? Would it be to strong to have it work in such a manner?

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I have not yet run any tests, but wouldn't we need to see something more added to arcane explosion to make it a viable aoe. I was thinking of having it refresh the AB blast stacks when you cast arcane explosion. Do they really expect us to cast an AB to keep our stacks up while AOE'n. Seems as though it would really hinder our AOE if we have to do so. You could use POM to refresh it once, but after that you have to stop and cast AB. Maybe I'm wrong tho, has anyone done any tests? Would it be to strong to have it work in such a manner?

If you were to put points into Improved AE, it'd come in quite handy for Magmaw or Cho'gall adds, which only cause an infection/corruption if you have threat and get hit. You throw an AB at the boss to keep up your stacks, spam AE, and repeat. The talent keeps you from pulling aggro on the adds (hopefully). Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not AE also has an increased mana cost as well as damage? The patch notes weren't specific regarding it.

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Even after being buffed, i still don't think arcane is very useful in raids. It might be viable in single target dps encounters like nef, but will be pretty much useless in bombdps/movement encounters, i think. And this AE buff won't help bombing at all, if you have to refresh arcane blasts during bombing after just casting 2 AEs.

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And this AE buff won't help bombing at all, if you have to refresh arcane blasts during bombing after just casting 2 AEs.

I wouldn't be that sure about this. Depending on how high the AoE ability will be, arcane might be a very pleasant spec to play in some encounters which do not only include single target fights.

e.g. low equipped mages progressing through BWD normal could eventually enjoy playing arcane @Maloriak, as your dmg in the greenphase is much less RNG-based (critting or not before combustion+impact!) and you do not have to worry about threat.

Same thing applies to Magmaw on normal mode for the parasites and trying to time the burnphases for when Magmaw exposes his head. On heroic mode fire will probably still be the leading spec due to the ability of keeping LB on several targets ("big Adds"+Boss).

And of course in both fights Incanter's Absorption is very handy. Well timing at Maloriak can provide you the buff even twice in the red phase.

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i'm thinking about heroic here. maloriak heroic also has these adds that put this black goo on the ground everywhere and i can't imagine bombing these with AE.

The main problem about AE bombing for me is the AB buff. The AB buff lasts 6 seconds (it does, doesn't it?) and AE won't consume it. But AE won't refresh it either, i think. So you're doing 2-3 AEs, then cast one AB and so on and i can't see this working. honestly i can't. well maybe i'm missing something but keeping AB stacked to 4 during bombing can be very hard.

as for magmaw heroic i agree with you.

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Let's examine the talent for a moment: Improved Arcane Explosion - Spell - World of Warcraft.

Reduces the global cooldown of your Arcane Explosion spell by 0.5 sec and reduces the threat generated by 80%.

Now, the important part of the Arcane Blast tooltip:

Effect stacks up to 4 times and lasts 6 sec

Giving a bit of leeway for movement/boss mechanics/lag, that's four Arcane Explosions for every refresh of your AB stacks. Again, most fights with adds pose no threat as long as you don't have aggro, so the threat reduction is vitally important with a PbAoE like Arcane Explosion.

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Hi i saw on SimulationCraft that they took Fire Power (2/3) in their template.

Anyone has been testing it?

I was wondering if it was worth it or not...

Thanks a lot. :)

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Hi i saw on SimulationCraft that they took Fire Power (2/3) in their template.

Anyone has been testing it?

I was wondering if it was worth it or not...

Thanks a lot. :)

2/3 Fire Power is an overall DPS gain of ~0.5%, mainly because there aren't any other talents that would benefit DPS in a patchwerk-style fight.

If there is no movement (Improved Blink), damage to absorb (Incanter's Absorption), interrupts (Invocation) or if all targets have 100% external slow/snare uptime (Nether Vortex) in a fight, 2/3 Fire Power is clearly the best choice for the last 2 talent points.

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2/3 Fire Power is an overall DPS gain of ~0.5%, mainly because there aren't any other talents that would benefit DPS in a patchwerk-style fight.

If there is no movement (Improved Blink), damage to absorb (Incanter's Absorption), interrupts (Invocation) or if all targets have 100% external slow/snare uptime (Nether Vortex) in a fight, 2/3 Fire Power is clearly the best choice for the last 2 talent points.

Actually 2/3 Ignite is just as good (7dps more on 500,000 iterations)

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The main reason I play Arcane is due to a notion I can't shake that moving completely freely while casting is just too easy mode, there are even a few normal Boss encounters where I literally auto-followed a healer and maintained regular DPS. Yes I realize that's a silly basis for a decision.

But in playing Arcane I feel like it matches fire in a lion share of the fights. Following the example of a fight by fight breakdown:

In Tot4W I take Rohash a perfect scenario since the tornado's need eyes, and Al'akir is a largely static encounter.

On Magmaw, if he survives to a third expose and I get full burns twice, I make up any difference in AOE with 150k DPS near on for those phases.

For Omnitron what I appreciate more then the added damage and mana is the nature of my damage, spreading dots on Poison Protocol when they spawn one at a time, coupled with not doing full damage until about 6 seconds after an action compared to a <2 second AB, small or single add groups go down faster nor are they being killed before I do damage.

Maloriak is mostly static, and one of those fights where I really don't feel like higher area DPS is a meaningful contribution. Stealing the remedy is 70K or so Free mana. I Counterspell, I would expect fire to do so as well and I get 10% damage to boot. Also if higher AOE is key in any fight CD burning AOE is really not that bad if its so important.

Atramedes... well I do the gongs so... sniff.

Without letting this get too much longer, the last thing that is mentioned previously is "execute" periods. As an example, and this also addresses the general loss of free movement, Ascendant Council gives me my worst numbers, and at the same time it is where Arcane feels Most important, I cannot burn freely since we are controlling the damage done, however my ability to exceed DPS means I can almost singly control and match the twin bosses by Burning as needed without full halts to raid damage. I also find arcane survivability very high, Cauterize aside, my small resistance bonuses coupled with normal buffs plus shields that reward the cooldown's with spell power puts my damage taken meters under the rest of the raid, Granted my healers probably don't notice or care. Then, the end of the fight, "execute" time. I stand still, pop everything (Troll Berserking too) under Bloodlust. and I execute better then any other class can. It is satisfying to crush Cho'Gall, Chimaeron, Maloriak and Al'Akir in their "dangerous" third phases.

We may never get past the notion that Arcane is inferior but with the specific Encounters out now Arcane seems vastly more Boss Effective. Its all about your Tool-kit!

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--snipped--

You do not want to play Fire, because it is easier (aka better)? That is a very silly basis for a decision.

Sorry to pick apart your boss list, but in the interest of better public knowledge:

Conclaive - you say Arcane is good on Rohash platform because tornadoes require eyes (??). Why you should not be Arcane for Rohash: a) Deep Freeze is almost a requirement for first heroic kills. b) There is so much movement on that fight in general (Wind Blast, platform/positioning changing) that fire is ideal.

Alakir - you say the fight is static. In P1 you move every few seconds: avoid Cyclone Wall, avoid Blizzard, avoid Lightning (if heroic), run in for Wind Knockback. In P2 you a constantly shuffling back and forth to avoid Cyclones and to stand in AoE healing effects. In P3 you mover every few seconds (altitude, and debuff).

Magmaw - in heroic, fire mages are perfect for soloing every parasite spawn (in my experience, 10man). Arcane is a waste if you have no way to handle the adds. There are multiple targets to kill. Fire can impact a super strong combustion and ignite from Magmaw head to Constructs, in addition to throwing LB's on constructs while killing parasites. There is also very frequent movement. However out of the fights you listed, Magmaw is the encounter where Arcane is the least terrible.

Omnotron - one again, movement everywhere. Kiting slimes, running in for Shadow Conductor, running away for Lightning Conductor. Blastwave and impact'ed dots for poison adds.

Maloriak - most raids have to stop damage on Maloriak at 30% while waiting for the next green phase. The challenge is killing all the Vile Swills and Slaves, while staying alive through red phase. With every person in the raid attempting to interrupt Arcane Storm, I doubt you would get many 10% damage bonuses.

Cauterize is the best talent in the game.

People don't have "notions" that we need to "get past". We don't judge a spec based off predetermined prejudices. A spec is either better or worse than another, for any given fight or raid role. It just so happensthat right now, in this very raiding tier, Fire is better than Arcane in almost every way. The moment Arcane has a use, it's only a respec away.

edit: This post is very outdated and Arcane is clearly superior now that I average ilvls have increased by 30 or so.

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a) Deep Freeze is almost a requirement for first heroic kills.

I was as Arcane on my last Conclave of Wind, and I can say, that AB(4) -> PoM -> AB(4) does actually more damage than deep freeze.

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Ive went from fire to arcane since my guild is have been missing 3% damage buff lately and we are already heavy on range. So far, it isn't as bad as i expected to be it. We are 6/13 H and just started working on H conclave, here is my experience, Gear is is all 359 with 6-7 372's

-Halfus H: I pretty much tunneled Halfus from 100 to 0 once we burned the first drake. I got decent dps numbers (60k), considering the movement from the fire orbs that are launched.

-Magmaw heroic: Wasn't terrible, i managed 25k dps on a 9:30 kill and it could been much better. Used fireward on cooldown and saved burn phase for the exposed head

-ODS H: I was doing pretty good with the puddles and arcanatron buff, but died to anhilator half fight. Fire might be better here, with the kiting and all whats going on.

-Atremedes H: I managed 18k dps, it was pretty annoying with all the movement, Fire does much better here.

-Chimearon H: Excellent dps, especially if you can stand as close as possible to the stack point

-Maloriak H: Useless, Went fire to AOE the adds better since we stop at 30% like everyone

-Nefarian Normal: I did better than expected, i managed 21k dps maximising my cooldowns and interrupt

As for conclave, like fok said, i was last night on rohash and i was top damage on shield with Ab (4) - > PoM -> Ab (4). Improved blink is excellent to move between platforms, Mage ward gives a nice buff, especially when you time it on roash platform during windblast before jumping, and you will have it back again as soon the cd is back up on nezir.

Arcane isn't as bad as it look once you get good feeling of the fights timing with your guild strat. The 13% buff is going to be really strong if it stays. As for now, its totally viable for 25man raids to have 1 of their mages go arcane, especially if 3% buff is missing. Also 6% less damage taken and mage armor provides better survival that eases healers job

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^ It appears there is one governing factor and a secondary governing factor. 1. Lack of need to be mobile, and 2. encounters with separate burst phases. The first appears to be necessary in all cases. Proof for that is Al'Akir. While by intuition one could think there is apportunity for high DPS due to the downtimes between phases - especially if one is dedicated on the ads of the 2nd phase - the result is weak since there is need for constant movement. Arcane blast is simply interrupted.

Ideally, the 'Arcane Encounter' is one that you are both stable in position and there is some downtime for all players to replenish mana. Usually one would need an encounter that whatever happens, it allows the player to stay stable in position even if that happens in portions. But big portions.

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I've updated the BiS list that simcraft uses: chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

I think it's pretty close to optimum, but if someone can spot any errors or knows of a gearset that sims higher than this one, please let me know.

A note about the Reforging: Because Haste/Crit/Mastery are reasonably close together in value, I've opted to always reforge the highest rating on a Hit-less piece of gear to Hit to get as close to the cap as possible (currently missing 1.37%).

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I said my reasons for playing arcane were silly, but there were also some real ones, I'm the only provider of the 3% damage buff for my 10, and I raid with a fire usually providing all of that jazz.

All the small movement in the Al'Akir fight you see coming so my spells never get interrupted, and small movements are fine. Arcane Barrage is a designed filler that keeps acceptable DPS levels, if every movement I make is on a barrage GCD I'm not losing any activity.

In my Magmaw description I explained there's someone else on the adds, as I said I raid with a fire mage in my regular 10s as well as 25, and the burn style of Arcane does more to kill Magmaw then any class could probably ending the fight a good 25 seconds sooner in 10, and no there's not frequent movement, I don't have to run from adds.

Cauterize is the best survivability talent, if you get killed a lot. As that does not happen often the reduction of raid damage in general (at least 10%) means it takes less from my healers to keep me full. I also note the design of Cauterize puts additional strain on the healers, granted they failed once at least to keep you alive but then they still have to heal you to full, and you may get hit by even more damage while your still taking burn from Cauterize.

In general the dangers of boss encounters are based on phases your trying to push through particularly fast, I have never in the history of WoW been on a boss that had challenging, progression stopping AOE requirements.

Just saw that other post, downtime actually skews for fire, evocation use has to be tied in timing to your CD'S or it won't

be available again after you use them, so you can't save evoke for a breather phase. your staying as close to 100% mana or pushing down to 20% as fast as possible then back at 100%, so a breather doesn't really provide anything.

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Cauterize is the best survivability talent, if you get killed a lot. As that does not happen often the reduction of raid damage in general (at least 10%) means it takes less from my healers to keep me full.

Cauterize allows you to cheese certain boss mechanics, such as heroic 25 Valiona and Theralion's blackouts. Since you will inevitably run out of cooldowns for it and stacking with the raid would wipe everyone out, the person with blackout has to run out and die. Being fire, all you have to do is run out, "die" and activate cauterize and healers can heal you back to full, forgoing the need to battle res or have someone soulstone you. If you ever get 2 consecutive blackouts on you can even iceblock the 2nd, and no other spec in the game can do this.

As for AE requirements that are progression stopping, there's heroic maloriak, at least on 25s, you need the AE power in order to kill black sludges before the next phase.

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Here's some research of the DPS benefits from Focus Magic for all specs. Created with simcraft on a standard patchwerk fight using 10k iterations and 4.0.6 data.

[table=head;sort=4d,2;autonumtitle=rank;width=60em ]Profile|DPS with FM|DPS without FM|DPS Difference

Priest_Shadow_T11_372|28003|27208|795

Mage_Fire_T11_372|26592|25821|771

Mage_Fire_Frostfire_T11_372|25151|24423|728

Mage_Arcane_T11_372|29110|28429|681

Warlock_AffDrain_T11_372|27196|26539|657

Warlock_Demonology_T11_372|27566|26914|652

Warlock_Destruction_T11_372|28200|27554|646

Warlock_Affliction_T11_372|27231|26601|630

Shaman_Elemental_T11_372|27063|26519|544

Druid_Balance_T11_372|26813|26325|488

Mage_Frost_Frostfire_T11_372|25304|24867|437

Mage_Frost_T11_372|25972|25623|349

Death_Knight_Unholy_1h_T11_372|23485|23264|221

Death_Knight_Unholy_2h_T11_372|26333|26107|226

Shaman_Enh_T11_372_Caster|26764|26570|194

Shaman_Enh_T11_372|26701|26510|191

Priest_Disc_Smite_T11_372|12376|12189|187

Rogue_Assassination_T11_372|27455|27280|175

Death_Knight_Frost_1h_T11_372|25781|25642|139

Priest_Holy_Smite_AA_T11_372|8817|8680|137

Death_Knight_Frost_2h_T11_372|25315|25230|85

Rogue_Combat_T11_372|26988|26904|84

Rogue_Subtlety_T11_372|26738|26683|55

Paladin_Retribution_T11_372|27522|27472|50

[/table]

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does the arcane line item take into account the trading of focus magic between 2 arcane mages?

Here's some research of the DPS benefits from Focus Magic for all specs.

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does the arcane line item take into account the trading of focus magic between 2 arcane mages?

Yes, Arcane has by default a constant buff (focus_magic_feedback). All I did was to add the override.focus_magic=1 option, so the resulting report shows 2 constant buffs, focus_magic and focus_magic_feedback.

Now, one flaw the above simulations have, is that the chart just shows the personal dps gain for the various classes, while ignoring the fact that many classes cannot provide 100% uptime for the mage himself.

I might be able to create a RDPS chart that includes the feedback buff, but I'm not totally sure about the proc mechanic of FM. Does FM proc from periodical crits? Or just direct hits like it was back in WotLK?

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These new haste changes are going to make gearing for Arcane tricky . There's still another .2 seconds to be removed from the Arcane Blast cast time once the next PTR Patch is available, and yet already on PTR I'm sitting at 1.29 second Arcane Blasts without benefit of Wrath of Air or any temporary haste buffs. With Berserking, I dip below a 1 second cast time. While the reduction in mana cost to 5% base certainly helps the value of haste, these other changes significantly undermine it. While Haste has been of nearly the same value as Mastery on Live, I doubt this will continue once Arcane Blast easily becomes so close to the haste soft cap enforced by the GCD.

On live, since Fire sees similar benefits from haste/crit and Arcane sees similar benefits from haste/mastery, it's possible to focus on haste and not need to reforge anytime you swap specs. I think this next patch may force me to choose one spec or the other. Right now, Arcane seems to be a clear winner for single target DPS, but even with the latest Arcane changes, AoE will still lag behind fire (especially since fire has a mechanism for subverting the AoE cap and arcane does not).

There's going to be some tricky choices to make once the patch goes live. Long term, however, Arcane is probably going to be the winner. With the latest PTR reduction in mana costs, I'm able to sustain AB spam for a shockingly long period of time. As my intellect goes up, and my haste goes down, that period of time will lengthen and it won't be very many tiers of gear before it becomes sustainable nearly full time. I really feel like Blizzard is kind of floundering in its attempts to improve Arcane. Unless they're committed to readjusting it every single patch, its going to be hard to keep it balanced.

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