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Aanzeijar

[Resto] Raiding 4.1 - updating for 4.3

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In your 25mans logs your uptime of the T11 4pc bonus is rather low compared to my 10mans logs. This makes sense as you are mostly spamming chain heal and healing rain. On most fights you are between 35-45%, Valiona being the exception with 52%. On my logs (assigned tank/snipe healer on 10mans) I'm around 40-65% uptime. This is both far lower than I would have expected the 4pc bonus to be. I never checked because even with low uptime the spirit for free is strong.

But having for example only 37% on your Magmaw kill puts the 4pc bonus below 200 spirit, and with a completely worthless 2pc bonus, you're almost better off putting on 4pc elemental for 10% faster TC regeneration. In the same fight you cast 24 lightning bolts for 170k mana return. 33.4k mana to cast those bolts nets you 5680 mana per cast. Getting 10% more of those are 2.4 casts, netting another 13600 mana over 5:55 or 200 mp5, which at your level is about 300 spirit.

Granted, this is without calculating in mana tide, ignores that only one elemental piece has spirit, and it only works for extreme fights like Magmaw, but it is still somewhat disturbing.

This is a very good point, and I too have not been checking this previously, I think because the 540spirit is added to the MTT it makes it a requirement to have, even if the uptime is lower than ideal, what it does say is perhaps RT needs to be cast more on CD than it currently is. I shall monitor this more closly in future raids!

In regards to your idea about the Mana Regen on Magmaw, while it is correct in its Math in practice its not so ideal. For example, you simply don't need more mana in this fight, as long as you hit with your LB's (as EP spec here I tend to always hit) I always max my mana each Head phase easily.

As stated above, while the "mathematical" optimum ideal would be to use your suggestion, in a raid situation this would probably result in a net rHPS loss as other healers would not be benefiting from the extra 2000+ spirit your 4set proc brings on a MTT drop.

I will be watching this though as its a excellent way of see RT casts on CD since its 6secs long also, good catch!

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Didn't see this specifically addressed...

When I tested on PTR, Mastery was not affecting HST, but has been changed since. Stand in the Blue Circle did a more recent test showing the effects of Mastery on HST. I haven't hopped back on the PTR lately to verify that it's still in place.

This is going to be so incredibly wonderful its beyond measure, currently I have +57%, and while this may contribute to more OH by ELW, RT HOT and HST it will also increase overall healing by a chunk.

If people can confirm when this goes live if it is indeed affecting these it would be appreciated by all, to aid this I have completely removed all buffs and right now (prior to 4.1) the following spells heal for the following:

RT Hot - 1982

ELW - 1856

HST - 1299

ES - 5754

These were all the non crits ofc

I will edit this post in the morning tomorrow after the patch to see if Mastery is indeed having an affect on these spells.

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Quote: Totemic Reach Optional If you find your totems are often just out of range of the raid members, this talent could help; then again, why not just learn to place your totems better?

In the large battle areas in the Cata raid fights, is it possible the value of being able to cover a larger area with both steady heals and elemental resistance (assuming glyph of healing stream totem) is being overlooked? Area of unreached totems is 900pi, with one point 1156pi, and fully reached 1521pi. 30 yd radius is enough in small fights like Omnitron, but what about the larger platforms. It also increases the range of the other buff totems and gives the raid more room in which to work.

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Quote: Totemic Reach Optional If you find your totems are often just out of range of the raid members, this talent could help; then again, why not just learn to place your totems better?

In the large battle areas in the Cata raid fights, is it possible the value of being able to cover a larger area with both steady heals and elemental resistance (assuming glyph of healing stream totem) is being overlooked? Area of unreached totems is 900pi, with one point 1156pi, and fully reached 1521pi. 30 yd radius is enough in small fights like Omnitron, but what about the larger platforms. It also increases the range of the other buff totems and gives the raid more room in which to work.

The talent is not overlooked. You've just outlined the pros of the talent very well. (Although 30% more range means a 69% larger coverage area -- something most people do overlook.)

The cons are that going 2/2 Totemic Reach gimps you since you can't get EP, and if you want to grab Ancestral Swiftness too then you can only get 1/3 Acuity. So again, just like the guide says, the talent is optional, i.e. something you can consider based on your playstyle and personal skill at placing totems and remembering to re-place them after moving.

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[Glyph of Healing Wave] Optional Very valuable early on, but diminishes on heroic encounters, where you will be casting fewer and fewer Healing Waves. Also note that druids don't like it if you heal yourself over 50% on Chimaeron.

[Glyph of Stoneclaw Totem] Optional Valuable if you want to shield yourself from a predictable burst and very mana efficient unless you have to recast another Earth

Stoneclaw totem glyph should be classified as recommended - not just "optional - on the same level as healing wave". I see way too many new shamans choosing the Healing Wave glyph over SCT. Even ones progressing on heroics!

It's a brilliant and excellent personal CD - efficiently extending your hp bar by 16000 hitpoints - extremely good on electrocutes (nef) and quakes (AC - if you happen to be in a position where you missed the Wind/Grounded buff). The healing wave glyph is mediocre at best,- the 1-2k ticks every 10 seconds will never help you survive anything. I know a lot of new (and experienced alike) shamans read this forum, and it would be nice if they got a clue as to how good the SCT glyph really is.

Glyph of SCT is invaluable.

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Stoneclaw totem glyph should be classified as recommended - not just "optional - on the same level as healing wave". I see way too many new shamans choosing the Healing Wave glyph over SCT. Even ones progressing on heroics!

It's a brilliant and excellent personal CD - efficiently extending your hp bar by 16000 hitpoints - extremely good on electrocutes (nef) and quakes (AC - if you happen to be in a position where you missed the Wind/Grounded buff). The healing wave glyph is mediocre at best,- the 1-2k ticks every 10 seconds will never help you survive anything. I know a lot of new (and experienced alike) shamans read this forum, and it would be nice if they got a clue as to how good the SCT glyph really is.

Glyph of SCT is invaluable.

Granted, the HW glyph isn't amazing. You only tend to use HW when there's little damage flying around... which means you probably don't need a tiny self-heal at that point in time either. On the other hand, it requires zero management on the Shaman's part, and it's not like free healing has ever hurt anyone.

By comparison, the SCT glyph requires a lot more management. It presupposes you're familiar enough with the encounter to know when to drop it -- which new Shamans won't. It also requires a GCD, stopping you from healing, and destroys your current Earth Totem, which in the best-case scenario has no impact on your raid... but in the worst-case scenario decreases the Armor of your tank(s) by 4075.

Saying glyph of SCT has a larger impact than glyph of HW is correct. Saying it's for everyone, especially for new Shamans, is not.

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It's not a question of skill. It's more a question of 10mans vs. 25mans. Spending 1 GCD for the shield is really efficient, but 2 (for setting stoneskin again) is not.

Edit: But he is right, optional is a bit low rated. Recommended is more akin to what the glyph represents.

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Granted, the HW glyph isn't amazing. You only tend to use HW when there's little damage flying around... which means you probably don't need a tiny self-heal at that point in time either. On the other hand, it requires zero management on the Shaman's part, and it's not like free healing has ever hurt anyone.

By comparison, the SCT glyph requires a lot more management. It presupposes you're familiar enough with the encounter to know when to drop it -- which new Shamans won't. It also requires a GCD, stopping you from healing, and destroys your current Earth Totem, which in the best-case scenario has no impact on your raid... but in the worst-case scenario decreases the Armor of your tank(s) by 4075.

Saying glyph of SCT has a larger impact than glyph of HW is correct. Saying it's for everyone, especially for new Shamans, is not.

Your argument weights heavily on the idea that "they don't know how, so they should not get it".

They should learn to use it. (and many new shamans read EJ to get an idea of how to heal better/become a better player!) Just because they don't know how to do something does not mean they should not learn it. If they're not made aware of how good this glyph actually is then they'll never try it - thus never learn how to use it correctly. New shamans probably don't know how to heal efficiently either - should they just lay down their maces and stop healing all together? A new player's goal should be to improve.

Sure, it costs a Global - but so does Riptide or any heal that would save your life. And you can use it on the move (if Unleash, Spiritwalkers and Riptide is on cooldown) - additionally you can have it in your Call of Elements setup - thus making it not cost an additional global.

And yes, it does cost an Earth totem (albeit, only for a second if you swap back,) so it's not for all - and I would not recommend avid use of it if your raid relies on your earth totem to have an uptime of 100% - but hey - your raid relies on you to stay alive to heal them as well.

A dead shaman heals for nothing, while ~4000 armour may mitigate a tiny, tiny amount of damage.

I see your point though. However, my point is valid for the more experienced shamans reading EJ as well - not just the fresh-out-of-the-box ones.

___

Spirit link:

impress them by knowing that the nature damage the totem deals could be resisted on the PTR

It seems like this is won't be the case on Live.

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A couple of interesting reports about patch 4.1 thus far.

First, the ICD on DMC:T has been decreased. It will now refresh every ~3 seconds or so. Not that uptime was a problem before, but a buff is a buff.

Second, Focused Insight works beautifully with Healing Rain, but the first instant tick does not appear to get the bonus.

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This is going to be so incredibly wonderful its beyond measure, currently I have +55%, and while this may contribute to more OH by ELW, RT HOT and HST it will also increase overall healing by a chunk.

If people can confirm when this goes live if it is indeed affecting these it would be appreciated by all, to aid this I have completely removed all buffs and right now (prior to 4.1) the following spells heal for the following:

RT Hot - 1982

ELW - 1856

HST - 1299

ES - 5754

These were all the non crits ofc

I will edit this post in the morning tomorrow after the patch to see if Mastery is indeed having an affect on these spells.

Okay time to update:

Yesterday Pre Patch:

HST – 1299 ticks – Now 1476 at 100% health……not quite sure what is going on there as assumed Mastery does not add anything to fully healed people, however I tested this a great deal and it never ever ticked below 1476 while all day yesterday never went above 1299 – ofc totally unbuffed.

When I mounted and dropped down to lose health this increased accordingly until again returning to 1476 at full health.

RT Hot – 1982 – Now min tick is 2046 – again mounted and fell and the ticks went:

2523

2478

2444

2411

3657 – crit

2323

ELW – 1865 – today min amount was the same – which is different from the above, however after finding a wall to jump from and casting Hw till EL procced it then went:

2387

2346

2317

ES – This has been nerfed – yesterday avg tick was 5754, now it is only 4575.

Mastery DOES work on this, however at 45% health it ticked for 5946, so a nerf but then also when lower health it will return more – depending on the tanks health will depend of the amount this gives, probably a slight reduction overall I would imagine.

Please note I currently have +55% Mastery

------------------------------------------

I have also been sold on the Stoneclaw issue, and will now be using it, I have also got the engineering Shield which I have macroed to the same, every little helps. One very good reason for taking it is that to obtain a similar EP build I have had to drop dmg reduction talent - Ancestral Resolve - this was only useful to me for predictable inc dmg from bosses, so having this totem mitigates this loss.

Can confirm alongside Amilie that FI does now work with Healing rain, making this a possible highly desirable talent to take if you go down the EP route, which I do.

Yesterday at Full Health HR ticked for on avg 2471 without FI, today also at full health it was ticking for 3031. However, the first tick is not affected by FI still

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HST – 1299 ticks – Now 1476 at 100% health……not quite sure what is going on there as assumed Mastery does not add anything to fully healed people, however I tested this a great deal and it never ever ticked below 1476 while all day yesterday never went above 1299 – ofc totally unbuffed.

This means they fixed the Purification bug. 1476/1299 = 1.1363, 1.25/1.1 = 1.1362. That was a quick one (assuming they didn't know about it before).

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New Data for FI and UE on Spells: All averaged over 10 trials - none crits

HR - Avg - 2670

HR + UE - 2615

HR + FI - 3104

HR + UE + FI - 3146

Conclude from this that UE is NOT affecting HR atm :(

CH - 8904

CH + UE - 11353

CH + FI - 11056

CH + UE + FI - 13749

Conclude that they are both working here, but UE seems to add more for some reason

RT - 2135

RT + UE - 2475

RT + FI - 2575

RT + UE + FI - 2907

Opposite of above, here FI adds more to RT ticks than UE does.

During the course of these tests I noticed that all the spells flucuate fairly wildly hence the need for running at least ten casts to get a reasonable average. However RT is always the same, most likely because it is a HoT and calculated once perhaps? However if I mount and drop mid RT it goes up due to mastery. So no idea why this is constantly the same number every single cast while other spells are all over the place, I am talking a deviation of 1000 in the case of CH while just 300 was the most for HR.

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I have also been sold on the Stoneclaw issue, and will now be using it, I have also got the engineering Shield which I have macroed to the same, every little helps.
The engineering tinker shield has a failure chance, including the following procs:

Painful Shock - Spell - World of Warcraft

Magnetized! - Spell - World of Warcraft

Reversed Shield - Spell - World of Warcraft

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With 4.1 and the addition of the Spirit Link Totem talent point, I've been struggling to work out the best trade-offs for a telluric currents spec. What I've settled on at the moment is a 3/7/31 skipping Blessing of the Eternals, Cleansing Waters and Focused Insight.

That said, skipping Blessing of the Eternals isn't 100% comfortable despite all my napkin math telling me that it just isn't that good... mostly due to my (perceived but not provable as far as I know) belief that it just isn't that common for folks to be below 35% health outside of chimaeron where ELW is mostly providing what is effectively overheal. Even on the big AOE blasts (ie electrocute) folks are only below 35% for 1-2 ticks of HR at most, at which point the increased proc rate is removed.

Are folks seeing (or better yet figured out how to log and test) anything different here? At the moment those 3 points in acuity are looking quite good to me.

Also.. has anyone hacked together a program/mod to track / post process % health of your party based on the amount that HST heals for? Now that it is ticking every couple of seconds and is effected by mastery I'd expect you could at least get a pretty good estimate of total health and % health for all the effected party members, though it would require some tracking of +healing received buffs and battlemaster proc effects. I'd love to be able to tell how many of my heals are landing on folks at what health percentage, even if it was just my party and not the whole raid, so that I could stop guessing / making assumptions about things like BotE and the value of mastery.

[edit for grammar]

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Conclude from this that UE is NOT affecting HR atm :(

Unleash Life affects your next direct heal. Focused Insight affects your next heal, period.

Working as intended.

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Mastery did only work on direct heals up until 4.1, but worked on Healing Rain. The great "what affects what" chart is there for a reason.

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With 4.1 and the addition of the Spirit Link Totem talent point, I've been struggling to work out the best trade-offs for a telluric currents spec. What I've settled on at the moment is a 3/7/31 skipping Blessing of the Eternals, Cleansing Waters and Focused Insight.

This is for 25-man Shaman:

Skipping Blessing of the Eternals is not something I have ever been comfortable with and have opted to drop Ancestral Awakening from my spec entirely come this patch. If you really think about how the two options work, I think you can get much more mileage out of BotE than AA due to the fact that BotE will affect all of your heals given a specific health level, but AA only affects HW, GHW, Riptdie Direct, and HS. It's a gimmick on Chimeron to have this talent, but there are plenty of other fights where targets (sometimes the raid as a whole) take such devastating damage that having that extra ELW healing guaranteed is much more worth it. Given the fact that crit levels are so low anyways, it really feels like a no-brainer that AA has never been required in any shaman spec.

I have opted to go with a 3/2/31 +5 build with those 5 points going into the enhancement tree or elemental tree depending on a given fight.

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Some quick observations:

- Ancestral Awakening now seems to be exactly 30% after 6% from Spark of Life.

- They still did not fix the tooltip error of HST, it still scales with spell power there.

- On a 0/0/0 resto spec Earth Shield has a coef of 0.1949 (129 sp -> 2150, 8979 sp -> 3875). This is actually higher than what the listed coef suggests. Or I fudged something.

- Anyone dropping improved cleanse will have fun healing Drakaraa. Possible but very hard.

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That said, skipping Blessing of the Eternals isn't 100% comfortable despite all my napkin math telling me that it just isn't that good...

[edit for grammar]

I concur with what Vice said. Some other things to consider:

In situations where people do drop below 35%, a healing rain tick will proc Earthliving as well. It's fairly trivial to carpet the raid in EL under heavy AoE damage, and Chain Heal will seek out the lowest people to jump to. If someone in range is under 35%, then Chain Heal will help ensure BotE gets used. It's not the most useful of our healing talents, because it is prone to getting out of the guaranteed proc range, or having EL healed over and going to overheal.

Given the other options of Cleansing Waters (very little cleansing in Tier 11) Focused Insight, (not a clear HPS boost, unreliability w/o EP) and Acuity, I still stick with BotE. I'd give up points in AA before BotE. I've gone over WoL to see how much AA has contributed to my healing before choosing my 4.1 spec, and I'm seeing around 1.5% of my healing from AA on average, and only ~3-4% on Chim where I single target far more. As a 25 man raid healing focused Rain/Chain heavy output, Acuity is a better choice than AA in that situation, and BotE, while harder to parse out, is likely going to outpace 1.5% too, in all likelihood.

Some way of parsing what %hp our raids are at would REALLY be a useful tool for Resto Shaman.

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I concur with what Vice said. Some other things to consider:

In situations where people do drop below 35%, a healing rain tick will proc Earthliving as well. It's fairly trivial to carpet the raid in EL under heavy AoE damage, and Chain Heal will seek out the lowest people to jump to. If someone in range is under 35%, then Chain Heal will help ensure BotE gets used. It's not the most useful of our healing talents, because it is prone to getting out of the guaranteed proc range, or having EL healed over and going to overheal.

Given the other options of Cleansing Waters (very little cleansing in Tier 11) Focused Insight, (not a clear HPS boost, unreliability w/o EP) and Acuity, I still stick with BotE. I'd give up points in AA before BotE. I've gone over WoL to see how much AA has contributed to my healing before choosing my 4.1 spec, and I'm seeing around 1.5% of my healing from AA on average, and only ~3-4% on Chim where I single target far more. As a 25 man raid healing focused Rain/Chain heavy output, Acuity is a better choice than AA in that situation, and BotE, while harder to parse out, is likely going to outpace 1.5% too, in all likelihood.

Some way of parsing what %hp our raids are at would REALLY be a useful tool for Resto Shaman.

I believe this may not be true for 10 man raiding. Personally speaking, as a 10 main raider, I was looking at my logs while doing my 4.1 respec, and I found AA and EL were healing for similar amounts (AA 6%-10%, EL 7%-9%) on average. The deciding factor for me was over healing; AA never had more than 6% over healing while EL averaged about 27%.

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I believe this may not be true for 10 man raiding. Personally speaking, as a 10 main raider, I was looking at my logs while doing my 4.1 respec, and I found AA and EL were healing for similar amounts (AA 6%-10%, EL 7%-9%) on average. The deciding factor for me was over healing; AA never had more than 6% over healing while EL averaged about 27%.

Before 4.1 this was also the case in my logs. My highest AA percentages were Omnotron and Magmaw hard, with up to 9.2% AA. Both are interesting samples because the mechanics allow me to use spell selection of more than 50% HS/GHW in these fights (Sample Log). The puny 3.4% Earthliving have 44% overheal. As a 10mans healer I've since dropped everything affecting Earthliving.

Edit: People on the german forums report that Wind Shear can still miss on Arcanotron and Halfus.

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Some noted issues:

First of all there seemed to be a annoying bug when placing a targeted ability, for Shammies its our HR, but when put down it would sometimes cancel, or shrink to a tiny size or grow to about 3 times the size - in all events this resulted in it not going off and having to be recast which significantly effected my healing.

I have been told that creating a macro /cast !Healing Rain should resolve this, will find out later, but mentioning it here in case you guys experience something similar.

The main issue I wanted to raise was the fact that although mastery does now effect HST, EL, RT Hots it seems to be a little "off"

For example, on the 20th my RT ticks were avg = 995 yesterday they were avg = 1099. No gear change between then and now and so it seems this increase is most likely down the the addition of Mastery

However Earthling weapon is another story

20th - avg tick 932

28th - avg tick 782

So what is going on here? I have not altered my gear between these two attempts and since Mastery now effects EL surely the average should be going up, not down. I did get off more last night that on the 20th, but even so that would not account for a 150 drop per tick on average.

The Chimaeron fight in particular should show a huge swing in EL for the most recent one since mastery has a large impact here, yet it does not also - 1654 on 20th vs 1540 on the 28th

If we look at HST this, is a standard tick based on the Healing Power, since again mine is the same these should be adjusted purely for the Mastery difference.

There is a considerable change here, over the two raids

20th - avg tick 413

28th - avg tick 606

Logs:

20th - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

28th - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Does anyone else have a similar experience

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I have the same 'bug' with Healing Rain : from time to time the targeting circle will enlarge or shrink and then the cast will fail. Most of the time when I try to recast it, it will fail again, I've got to recast it a third time to have it being successfully cast. That means a lot of time lost. Until now I haven't found any evidence on what were the reasons that make HR's cast fail (having a HoT ticking, receiving damage while the targeting circle is on the screen,...)

For the EL ticks being smaller after 4.1 the only thing I can think of at the moment is the EarthLiving's Glyph. Could it be that you had that Glyph on the 20th and you removed it for yesterday's raid? Maybe there is a way to see the presence (or not) of that Glyph in the CombatLog?

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I have the same 'bug' with Healing Rain : from time to time the targeting circle will enlarge or shrink and then the cast will fail. Most of the time when I try to recast it, it will fail again, I've got to recast it a third time to have it being successfully cast. That means a lot of time lost. Until now I haven't found any evidence on what were the reasons that make HR's cast fail (having a HoT ticking, receiving damage while the targeting circle is on the screen,...)

For the EL ticks being smaller after 4.1 the only thing I can think of at the moment is the EarthLiving's Glyph. Could it be that you had that Glyph on the 20th and you removed it for yesterday's raid? Maybe there is a way to see the presence (or not) of that Glyph in the CombatLog?

I also had the HR bug last night. I noticed that it seems to happen when I moved it over certain areas in terrain; moving on or off the raised platform in Atramedes' chamber, and over the 'threshold' from the entry hallway in BoT to the first trash chamber. So, in the event that my casts would fail after moving over these areas, if I held my mouse where I wanted to target and then recast it seemed to work.

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I, personally, use my own 3/5/33 spec that includes FI and TC without taking elemental precision. The extra points to get me to hit cap just doesn't seem worth it. With a 17% miss chance and always using the FI buff for a heal, the mana cost is effectively less than UE, coming to around 6.795% base mana while UE costs 7% base mana. Since our shocks and riptide have the same cd, I tend to use them in conjunction with each other.

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