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[Balance] Simple Questions + WoL Feedback

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Hmm, although I should really update that to:

Int >> Haste > hit/Spirit = mastery > crit.

Hit is most frequently traded for mastery in the reforging process; in my experience you rarely have to resort to sacrificing haste to meet the hit cap. In practice you reforge Spirit <-> mastery as necessary to meet cap, and that makes Spirit basically equivalent to mastery when selecting gear.

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Hey, Ive been doing some raids today and I want you guys to take a look at the logs and maybe you can make sense of which is better.

These are my logs from tonights Shannox boss

Log 1.

I simply roll dots on all of the dogs and the boss its self, my spec has LS and i didnt move alot in the fight

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Log 2. This is our ranged officer who is a boomkin who has favored no LS spec and to spam Sunfire while Rolling IS on all 3 targets.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

He heavily out gears me and i beat him on overall damage on the kill (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis)

Altho most of the fights to follow and the wipes before hand he wants topping the meters by using his "spam Sunfire" rotation.

This has got to me because i know my rotation is more complex and should therfore (when done correctly) be alot more powerful but that doesnt seem to be the case.

I thought with the changes to LS it would stop his but just unspecing the talent seems to have negated the changes.

Ideas/comments please!

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I'm having some troubles figuring if swapping 359 T11 shoulder and head for 372 non-set (thus losing 4T11) would be worth it. I'm not sure how many stats we are willing to sacrifice for the new 4T11. It obviously still have some value, and I am well aware that the issue will be moot as soon as I can get my hands on 2T12, but in the mean time since I do have the 372 non-set pieces (Hide of Chromaggus and Helm of the Blind Seer) I'm just toying with the idea.

My eclipse rotation time seems to be around 50sec, in which I have 16sec maximum of Astral Alignment. If I can consider Astral alignment as a 16sec +10% crit chance (it's late so that might be terrible wrong of an assumption), the 4pT11 would average a 10*(16/50)=3.2% crit chance.

Of course there is the fact that I will probably use +15% crit chance eclipsed SS or SF at the beginning of eclipse, which will complicate the issue, but I think the consensus for max dps is to currently ignore the 4T11 bonus, so it might also be a Moonfire that get the crit.

So is that accurate? Can we even remotely consider the 4T11 as a flat 3% crit chance give or take? That would help.

If my drowsy napkin math is utterly nonsense please feel free to correct me. You can mock me too, that's ok.

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Hi, fellow boomkin here, got a couple of questions, most of them are related to burst dps.

First off, the trinket [iTEM]Sorrowsong[/iTEM], I'm assuming the answer is yes as it is still in the updated Balance thread, but is this still worth using as of 4.2?

Secondly, what about activated trinkets? Both the Balance thread here and Mr Robot (which I admittedly don't really trust when it comes to trinkets, says some wacky stuff sometimes) say that [iTEM]Necromantic Focus[/iTEM] and [iTEM]Darkmoon Card: Volcano[/iTEM] are the best-in-slot trinkets, but I (and I have by no means done the math, just shallow logic on my part) feel inclined to think that a use-effect trinket would be pretty great in any fight where you need burst during a specific burn phase.

My third and last question is related to the profession perks. As pretty much everyone seems to agree about, Tailoring is a great profession as it provides more intellect than others at this point. The Balance thread used to say that it provided 120 intellect but now only says 90 intellect despite there being no changes to the embroidery (not that I haven't missed, anyway). What's up with that? Would love to know the reasoning behind it, don't sweat it though, that's not my main concern. In the second profession slot it doesn't really seem to be that important to have a specific profession as long as you have one of the "hi, I provide 80 intellect" ones, which there are a lot of. I personally have opted to use blacksmithing as it has the two benefits of being able to provide more than just intellect (largely irrelevant, I know, but still something) and the fact that it is pretty much guaranteed to provide 100 intellect in the future since stormjewels have been datamined and provide 50 in a stat. Jewelcrafting provides 1 more intellect than the other professions and the only real reason I don't use that before blacksmithing is that I didn't pick it up to begin with, it is undeniably stronger right now but it feels like it is not as much of a safe card as blacksmithing is when it comes to a future epic gem patch (getting 51 intellect rather than 81 would be disappointing, in case they leave the jc gems unchanged). Up until recently I have considered Tailoring + Jewelcrafting to be the optimal profession choices, but it recently hit me that the 80 intellect that engineering gets is actually a use-effect. Again, I'm far from experienced when it comes to complicated math so I haven't crunched any numbers but wouldn't engineering provide much stronger benefits than the other professions, considering that you can pop it during Bloodlust, during Berserking (troll racial) etc.? I also believe it synergizes well with our DoTs since they read your spell power when they are applied, correct me if I'm wrong but I'd think that gives you quite a bit of additional damage even if it's not in an ideal DoT situation (Solar Eclipse + DoTing up Beth'tilac spiderlings or something similar), right? Lastly, I'm aware that the engineering use-effect has a 20 sec shared cooldown with use trinkets. If you do choose to pick up engineering, would this affect your trinket choices for just a normal fight, and/or for the kind of fight where you would use Sorrowsong (and assuming I'm onto something in question 2, a use-effect trinket) like Beth'tilac or Ascendant Council?

Thanks a bunch in advance and terribly sorry about the wall of text, I've got a nasty habit of using unecessarily many words to say something that I could've conveyed in half the amount of text. :c

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For professions they generally update all others to provide the same benefit when epic gems are released. Tailoring I believe was hotfixed to be generally equal. On use do have their advantages and generally can be considered stronger however may not align well with mechanics. Would be tough to model.

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I feel like I must be doing something wrong with my single target rotation.

Here's a log from our last kill of normal baleroc:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I know my spec is still a little heavy on utility talents, (most notably dreamstate which I still have because last week I needed it for beth) and except for one point where I had to move more than expected on baleroc I felt like I was doing my rotation properly. I have focus magic but I'm just wondering if my dps feels low on the fight because of not complete raid buffs or if there's something that shows up wrong with my rotation. Any help is appreciated.

e: armory is up to date although at the time I had the 372 t11 chest and regular theralion's instead of the necromantic focus.

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I am very lucky to pic up the T12 2pc today. Am I right that the summoned fire treants do no kind of damage? First I checked "recount". But this was to vague for stating this right. So here is a short non representative log file of nearly 5 mins simply castng wrath and starfire from elcpise to eclipse.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I noticed 5 summons of the firetreant (seems to have a normal icd so far) but I can not see any output made. Am I right? Is Blizz kidding us? Forgiveme if I am just not capable to see every nesseesary aspect.

(Sry if you find it irritating that I post here as a shaman. This regards my moonkin alt.)

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I am very lucky to pic up the T12 2pc today. Am I right that the summoned fire treants do no kind of damage? First I checked "recount". But this was to vague for stating this right. So here is a short non representative log file of nearly 5 mins simply castng wrath and starfire from elcpise to eclipse.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I noticed 5 summons of the firetreant (seems to have a normal icd so far) but I can not see any output made. Am I right? Is Blizz kidding us? Forgiveme if I am just not capable to see every nesseesary aspect.

(Sry if you find it irritating that I post here as a shaman. This regards my moonkin alt.)

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Its a pet for you so you have to expand your damage listing on the damage done section and select the burning treant.

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Hello. My mainspec is Resto, but occasionally I raid as Moonkin, and my DPS feels lower than it should be. Much of my gear is shared between the two specs; the main differences are:

Head - Got a 353 head with a burning shadowspirit in it.

Trinkets - Bell of Enraging Resonance & Witching Hourglass

Gloves & Legs - Hydrolance gloves & Leggings of consuming flame replacing Resto T11.

Here's a WoL report for Baleroc:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Question is, which single action would show the best increase in DPS:

Get more dedicated moonkin gear, and reforge spirit away until I'm not wasting stats being past the hitcap.

Get justice points and buy T11 moonkin set pieces

Get better trinkets

Respec

Improve my rotation, improve dot uptime, stop clipping dots, react faster to starsurge procs

Improve my AoE damage - I find mushrooms fiddly to use, and when multidotting I sometimes tab back onto a target I've already dotted.

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Hi all.

I just started raiding this tier, and I think my dps is a mite bit low. Could you help me out?

Here are the parses:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

specifically: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

The first night was all but our kills on fandral and the last night was fandral kill and ragnaros attempts. I am consistently in the bottom half of the dps. Although last tier I was used to being in the top 5 dps.

Is it just my gear that has fallen behind? I am using RAWR for calculations and I am low on almost every fight. RAWR has me doing 19.6k (18.5 w/o elemental oath, which we don't have) dps but I usually am lower than that by a considerable bit on Beth'tilac, Rhyolith, Baleroc, Fandral, and Ragnaros. I seem to be doing well at Shannox, but that is just because I dot everything and dps Shannox with my many starsurge procs.

Also, any advice on Alysrazor would be nice. I am one of the fliers. What should I be spamming in the air as I am following her? Just follow the rotation?

I guess it would help me to have a general strategy for all the HMs in tier 12. Granted, I had a lot of practice in t11 so I may warm up to my dps after raiding for more than one week, but I didn't see too many ways to improve my dps that seemed very straight forward.

Here is my armory profile: Erygwn @ Eonar - Game - World of Warcraft

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I have browsed though the balance threads and have not found an answer I was hoping for. Sorry if it has been answered before but I am curious how out mastery works. I know it beefs up our eclipses but does the increase in damage occur only at the eclipse or can the damage increase also occur with a mastery proc once eclipse is already on. I have an on use mastery trinket I am just wondering if I should use just before eclipse or just use even during an eclipse. Thanks =)

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I have browsed though the balance threads and have not found an answer I was hoping for. Sorry if it has been answered before but I am curious how out mastery works. I know it beefs up our eclipses but does the increase in damage occur only at the eclipse or can the damage increase also occur with a mastery proc once eclipse is already on. I have an on use mastery trinket I am just wondering if I should use just before eclipse or just use even during an eclipse. Thanks =)

Eclipse itself updates dynamically, the tooltip on the buff however does not, but you are getting the benefit of the mastery proc even if it is used after you are already in eclipse.

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Recently my guild has been having issues with boomkins not taking a mass res, and running back in order to kill critters on the way, to move their eclipse bars into a full eclipse prior to pulling. We are having issues with this with regards to them pulling mobs and dying while doing this, or even just waiting longer for them to get back, and then having to wait for them to eat/get buffs. I am curious if in other guilds, the boomkins do this as well, and what kind of DPS gain would they lose out on if they were to start the pull at a 0 eclipse bar compared to if they were to start at a full one.

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A simplified view of the moonkin rotation for a Patchwerk fight, in round numbers:

100% dps ~= 10s of 75% dps + 13s of 120% dps.

Ignoring things like Bloodlust, best case the Moonkin gains extra damage equal to 10s * 45% of his average DPS, or roughly 150k of damage over the course of the fight. For a five minute fight that is about 500 DPS.

That number goes up considerably if he can pre-place Mushrooms to be detonated at the start of the fight, but he can't pre-place them to be detonated 40s into the fight (not sure where his target(s) will be). It is also becomes bad for him if your raid pops Bloodlust at the start of the fight. The value of taking a potion just before the pull also goes down considerably if he starts at zero energy.

For AoE situations it could take the Moonkin close to 40s of non-movement to get to Solar Eclipse. If he gets to AoE in Solar, he does OP Moonkin AoE. If he isn't in Solar, he may only do 60% of that. Similar considerations apply if there is heavy movement during the first 30s or so of the fight.

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For my character both Rawr and Wrathcalcs suggest using glyphs of Starfire/Moonfire/Starsurge over IS and Wrath. The Wrathcalcs section of the Balance thread suggests this is optimistic, but Rawr also agrees. I haven't actually seen a boomkin use that glyph configuration and my gear has been too inconsistent to really compare. Does anyone have some input on this?

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The value of GoSFire and GoSS are strongly dependent on the timing of raid events and/or your Eclipse cycle. Both Rawr and WC tend to use very similar logic for things that depend on Eclipse timing, so their rankings will be similar.

Without GoSS, you can reliably drop Starfall every ~62s or more. With GoSS, that number drops to ~47s, with occasional opportunities as low as ~37s. If a fight reliably has a burn phase every 47s to 62s, GoSS is strong. If not, GoSS is weak. Note that Lunar Eclipse is a minor burn phase as far as Starfall is concerned.

For some "normal" fights GoSFire could save you a GCD about every ~24s, and that is worth a bit more than either GoSS or GoWr. If a fight has any movement, and you refresh MF during that movement,GoSFire did nothing for you.

GoSFire is very strong if it lets you extend a DoT that is OP due to some temporary boss mechanic.

GoWr is slightly stronger than GoIS on a Pure patchwerk fight. However, raid events are much more likely to reduce Wrath's uptime than IS's uptime.

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Recently my guild has been having issues with boomkins not taking a mass res, and running back in order to kill critters on the way, to move their eclipse bars into a full eclipse prior to pulling. We are having issues with this with regards to them pulling mobs and dying while doing this, or even just waiting longer for them to get back, and then having to wait for them to eat/get buffs. I am curious if in other guilds, the boomkins do this as well, and what kind of DPS gain would they lose out on if they were to start the pull at a 0 eclipse bar compared to if they were to start at a full one.

The only place I would say doing this is critical to a moonkin is if they are assigned to a spiderling spawn on Beth.

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Hello EJ,

I've recently finished leveling my first 85 alt, my moonkin, and have been raiding for only a few weeks now. I am constantly on EJ and TMR looking for tips/tricks/rotations and trying to play the class to the best of my ability.

I'm looking for a critique of my current gear/damage parses, as well as any help you can offer based on this past weeks raid.

WOL: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/0rtuxe90 ... amageDone/

WOL: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6k2fwqln ... amageDone/

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... h/advanced

EpeenBot: Omhotah - Epeen Bot - RaidBots - Web Tools for WoW Nerds

I seem to have the idea down for most of the aoe heavy fights. I look at epeenbot over at raidbots.com very often for my main and my new alt, and it seems I"m performing *well* compared to others on those fights. However, I've noticed that my single target dps is not up to par.

WrathCalcs is telling me I should be pulling about 25.5k single target dps in my gear/buffs. I'd like to see if I can close to realizing that potential on Baleroc/Domo fights.

On the Domo kill in the above parses, I actually died to Leaping Flames while covering my Flame Orb, so you can look at the wipes from that Tuesday as well.

My haste is very low atm, as I am having a hard time staying hit capped and such. I've got some gear that is not optimal, but it's what I have to deal with atm. I also already have the t12 chest, and am buying the gloves next week for my 2p.

I've actually been looking at Faerra and Tagartou's single target logs compared to mine, and I wanted to see what people thought I could improve upon. I think that I'm putting too much emphasis on dots, as their wrath/starfire damage way out paces mine, even when the fights were so much shorter. Perhaps I'm dotting too much. At my gear/haste level I'm applying both upon entering and refreshing when leaving (with NG/Eclipse still up). When my haste was a bit higher I could do the 3 portion refresh a bit more easily (into and out of solar, midway through lunar), but my haste is such that my dots are falling off just a tad early.

Any criticism is welcome, I'm looking to play this class, which I have so much fun playing, at it's pinnacle.

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I've a question that I have not found the answer anywhere, so, I guess you can explain this.

I've casted IS (no procs: int, haste, mastery yet), then MF, at the beginning of the encounter, SF til solar eclipse, then, refreshed IS and casted sunfire, but, my question is, when I've refreshed IS, has it gained the buffs I've proced? Like Power Torrent, Volcanic Destruction, etc? or it will keep the way I've first casted at the beginning of the encounter?

I've searched on balance's guide and found this "...Because the entire DoT is effected by your stats at the moment of cast...", but, anyway, what means "at the moment of cast", the first cast? or refreshing it may count as a "new" cast stats ?

Thank you, Pannz.

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When you refresh IS it will gain any buffs that you have active at that moment. The refresh is basically new cast.

The only complicated case is extended Moonfire with Starfire, which updates haste but not anything else.

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I recently joined a new guild and found myself in different roles than I'm used to, mostly as a product of a transition from 10 to 25 man. As a result, I'm putting out way lower numbers than I'm used to.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

My primary concerns are H Rhyo and H Alysrazor. On Rhyolith I'm on add duty. We don't bother with DPSing the slimes. I'd like to camp solar for the entire fight and just use wild mushroom on cooldown on the fragments, but the need for high dps on the sparks results in me having to leave solar. In addition, I don't have the mana pool to hurricane fragments while wild mushroom is on cooldown. I dot the legs so I don't waste GCDs, but it really doesn't seem like I can utilize all of them and still maintain enough mana for the burn phase.

On Alys, I'm focusing on the hatchlings / meteors. This was just a trainwreck for me. There's just no position I can stand in for any length of time and DPS. Trying to remain mobile and dotting everything in sight prevents me from using like half my GCDs. With all the fire, my overall uptime is abysmal. I have absolutely no idea how to optimize on this fight.

Any suggestions, or even some logs to look at in which other druids are doing similiar roles, would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance for you time.

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I was wondering how much dps the Tier12 4 set bonus is worth. I really dont understand the mechanics of when to and when not to cast starsurge with the tier bonus and was wondering how much of a dps loss it would be to take offpiece items instead.

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I got a question about geting into eclipse before the pull. I read once in some guide that there is something from engieenring that I can summon and kill and get to eclipse, but I didnt realy think about it then since I didnt have engi. But recently I got it but I cant remeber what was it or where did I read about it.

So does any one know what it might be, and does it still work? Yeah we got criters to kill in FL, but my RL is geting more and more mad at me for hunting criters after every wipe. And who knows if there will be any criters in the next tier, BoT BWD TotFW didnt have any...

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