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[Balance] Simple Questions + WoL Feedback

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I'm usually Resto, but for Rag hero I've switched to moonkin, and I'd like to get some feedback on the tries. Here's the log:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Of course, we're whiping, so there's probably a plethora of things going wrong (and of course I take every hint I can get, even if not moonkin-specific). My gear should be ok due to using a lot of items from my main spec, but is void of any set boni.

Specifically for this fight, I've made the following decision (up for debate, of course): I'll want to be in solar eclipse for the seeds, and by trial and error I've found that it's not quite possible for me when I refresh dots at the beginning and at the end of every eclipse. So I do only refresh dots when they run out, and I comfortably reach solar eclipse during the first transition phase. I stay in solar till after the seed phase. Since we stop boss damage around the 3rd seed spawn to wait for world in flames, this seems to make a lot of sense for me (since the alternative would lessen aoe damage and push boss damage). For the seeds, I preplant mushrooms and push starfall, upon spawn I explode the mushrooms, put up hurricane (for 1 or 2 ticks), when I run out I use typhoon and use either sunfire or wrath to finish up individual seeds. Is there a better way?

I don't use starfall in the transition phases due to using it for the seeds. If the seeds work better, I'd want to skip that and use it in transitions, because I image it's hugely valuable there.

My gripe is that I think I should be doing more damage, especially since there's quite some aoe involved, but I can't see what I'm doing wrong. I try to run as little as possible during world in flames and such, but often I just need to move some more (e.g. in p1 when there's a trap nearby). In particular, I often can't finish a cast during world in flames, even if I take only a small step (wrath works, but starfire usually does not). I'd really be grateful for any hint how I could push damage. I'm really willing to micromanage every aspect for this fight, I guess progress will still take some time :)

One particular trouble is the travel time of wrath/starsurge, I'd often cast one or two more wraths then I need to when going lunar. I'm trying to get a grip on it by remembering the number of casts needed, but euphoria makes that kinda unreliable. How does anyone else handle this?

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One particular trouble is the travel time of wrath/starsurge, I'd often cast one or two more wraths then I need to when going lunar. I'm trying to get a grip on it by remembering the number of casts needed, but euphoria makes that kinda unreliable. How does anyone else handle this?

You should definately use the addon BalancePowerTracker to watch you eclipses : The option "Foresee energy" let you see when you can start casting Starfire, even if it will take some time for your wrath to hit Ragnaros.

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I have a pretty good set of raid gear for balance for a toon with limited raid time (an ALT). I am thinking of picking up resto as a secondary spec for greater flexibility. I currently have T11 Balance chest and legs and I read here that the 2T11 bonus isnt so great. So I was wondering should I still try to get a 2T11 resto set (legs & chest). Without reforging the balance pair gives me alot more haste, comparison

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You get a set bonus, more haste wich is your best secondary stat, less crit wich is your worst secondary stat. There is nothing to think about. If you want to take those resto items for your healing offspec fine, but there is no point in using those items for balance DPS.

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I have a couple questions really, and just want to clear up some uncertainties I have about the balance rotation. What I've been doing so far is IS > MF > SS > Starfire until eclipse. I've been using Starfall / Treants / SS on cooldown. I have just been refreshing dots as they come down (before the last tick). My dps has been really low, so I decided there had to be something I missed along the way.

From what I understand I'm actually supposed to refresh dots when starting eclipse, or leaving eclipse (but still in it). I've seen people say both, but I'm not sure which one is correct. A question related to this is, if I refresh them when starting an eclipse, it's not a dps loss to clip them everytime? I come from playing a warlock, so it's habit for me to never clip dots.

A few other questions...

Should I only be using starfall and starfire when in a lunar eclipse?

What benefit does lunar shower give, when should I be spamming MF instead of using mushrooms during movement?

How does natures grace affect dot priorities? I understand that I should cast the weaker one first, so that the second one benefits from NG.

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Try to refresh your dots leaving eclipse if they have less than 8s left on them.

Starfall is greatly increased in lunar and you should be using starfire in lunar as well and to get to solar. Don't forget to dot up in lunar eclipse and use starsurge.

You should be using both if you can. Put MF/SF on a couple of targets then try to drop your stacks by placing your mushrooms and using IS.

IS then MF for NG

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Ok, my moonkin has DMC:Volcano and Power Torrent enchant.

Let's say these 2 proc at the same time, and I am around 0 solar energy (in the middle of the bar), and I refresh my DoTs.

But say I hit solar eclipse, with still 8-12 sec left on the dots, but the int/sp procs have worn off. Should I refresh them right away to benefit from the eclipse, or let them tick since they are still buffed with over 2k SP more than I usually have?

Basically, what is most beneficial, 2K SP boosted DoTs, or eclipse-boosted DoTs? I guess it depends on your mastery, and exactly how big the SP buff is, but is there any rule of thumb or such?

Like many other posters here, the durid in question is an alt, and probably not optimally geared.

My moonkin with the creative name has 1106 Mast/28% eclipse bonus, and ~8.6 k SP raid buffed.

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If you mean that they have the power torrent + DMC:V proc AND eclipsed you should obviously not just reapply dots right away. Instead start working yourself towards lunar and then refresh before they end.

If you mean that you apply them uneclipsed then you're doing it wrong. Don't apply dots unecliped.

Even if DMC:V and power torrent procs right after you redot and leave an eclipse you should have time to get into eclipse and reapply dots with them up (although I would say this sort of depends on the encounter, if you have to move for example, then you might as well reapply dots before/after)

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ok so refresh dots each time you leave an eclypse? I have mage nuggets which has been very helpful as I get an interface telling me how much time I have left and I have been making sure I don't lose a DOT.

Also is there an updated Talent tree for Balance? I quit playing for a few months and just got back after it, I want to make sure I have everything where it needs to be.

Is there a BIS list as well?

Thanks.

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If you mean that they have the power torrent + DMC:V proc AND eclipsed you should obviously not just reapply dots right away. Instead start working yourself towards lunar and then refresh before they end.

If you mean that you apply them uneclipsed then you're doing it wrong. Don't apply dots unecliped.

Aha! For some reason I thought that the eclipse boost was lost from the dots after the eclipse faded, just like haste updates on the dot for each tick (it does, right? It's not another thing I've gotten wrong?)

@Thorsis:

Is there a BIS list as well?

BiS lists are out of most people's league unless you have FL H on farm. I would say

- Stack haste as much as you can, with reforges and gem choices

- Higher ilvl is usually always better

- Set bonuses are good, try to get them when you can.

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Panzer,

For the most part, our DoTs use the buffs we had at the time they were cast. That includes Eclipse, Haste, Mastery, and crit rating.

Note that 4t11 (crit%, not crit rating) was different. Its changes applied to existing DoTs.

When testing this, don't trust tooltips (which do update dynamically). Look at the numbers in a combat log.

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Aha! For some reason I thought that the eclipse boost was lost from the dots after the eclipse faded, just like haste updates on the dot for each tick (it does, right? It's not another thing I've gotten wrong?)

@Thorsis:

Is there a BIS list as well?

BiS lists are out of most people's league unless you have FL H on farm. I would say

- Stack haste as much as you can, with reforges and gem choices

- Higher ilvl is usually always better

- Set bonuses are good, try to get them when you can.

@ Panzer What stat wise should my crit and mastery be or is it that big of a deal? I am at 17 on hit so I am good there, should I mostly be focusing on haste at this point?

And from what I am reading, only refresh the dots in an eclypse? Otherwise just when they start to run out?

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@Erdluf: Thanks!

@ Panzer What stat wise should my crit and mastery be or is it that big of a deal? I am at 17 on hit so I am good there, should I mostly be focusing on haste at this point?

Our stat priorities are (as stated in Hamlet's main thread)

- Int

- Hitcap (17% = 1742 ratings)

- Haste

- Mastery

- Crit

I would say it's a big deal, at least. I haven't tried going all crit or something, but most people agrees that this is the best stat prio.

And from what I am reading, only refresh the dots in an eclypse? Otherwise just when they start to run out?

Ignoring any nice trinket/enchant procs, you basically reapply dots when you hit an eclipse and refresh them just before you leave the eclipse, and hope that that last refresh will last you until next eclipse.

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Hello, for this entire expansion i have been playing with Restoration, but now my 10-man has 4 healers and someone must change to dps.

Since i have played a ranged dps class before i said i could and i have been trying to learn about balance spec since then. I haven't tried it on FL heroic bosses yet, but since my raid is 7/7H i need to learn how to max my dps.

But the problem is: following the instructions given on the balance thread i can't get more than 19k DPS on the raider's dummy. I got the 17% hit cap, reforged crit to haste/mastery and mastery to haste (when possible)

My armory is this: Daniboy @ Ursin - Game - World of Warcraft

As you can see all my gear is from the Restoration spec, i have been farming justice points to buy the other parts of the tier on 4.3 (i got the heroic token to buy heroic chest and legs already).

I really don't know what i'm doing wrong. I use IS/MF (always starting with IS) on the beggining of a fight/eclipse, i always refresh the dots before the eclipse goes off, starfall and force of nature on CD, starsurge and its proc everytime i can and wrath/starfire on its proper times.

The tests that i run are done without any buff (only the ones from moonkin form), flask, pre-pot/pot, food.

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The tests that i run are done without any buff (only the ones from moonkin form), flask, pre-pot/pot, food.

I read that as ONLY selfbuffed. In that case it's not so bad, mate.

Only thing I would say is, dont use Starfall directly on CD, wait til next lunar eclipse.

And check on wowreforge.com - no matter how smart i think I reforge, it does it better than me..

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Balance Power Tracker doesnt seem to be working anymore with 4.3 :(

Anyone got a quick fix for that?

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I have been raiding on my druid for quite a while now (though mainly as resto). As fights permit I find myself going Boomkin alot more often, however I constantly find my DPS being lower then the rest of the raid (in Firelands its 5kish lower) but for example our recent tries on madness of Deathwing it was around 10k lower (I was doing 30k, average of other DPS was 40ish) then the rest of the raid (unfortunately I do not have a WoL link for this yet)

This is a link to our last ragnaros kill where I considerably lower then the rest of the raid.

WoL - Nedge - Balance Druid

WoL - Nedge - Balance Druid Madness of Deathwing tries (Have a look at different tries)

Armory

It could be that I am a complete idiot and do not watch my DoTs propperly, or I am doing something fundamentally wrong al together. Any input after reviewing the log would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently running around in Tier12 Balance gear, and a few heroic pieces here and there. I feel like I should be doing alot more DPS then I am doing now.

Appreciate the help.

Cheers

EDIT: Madness of Deathwing tries Added

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Hey there,

I am slightly concerned about the performance of our Balance druid, unfortunately, I don't understand Balance well enough myself to correctly identify any potential issues.

Unfortunately, our guild's logs are private, so I cannot share them here. Currently, we are taking note of DoT uptime, which seems decent now, the rate of alternation between Solar/Lunar phases, which appears questionable to me, and the number of casts of Wrath/Starfire, which also seems unreliable.

We are comparing our logs to those of better performing druids, and it appears that other druids shift phases far more frequently, and in general, complete far more casts, more than can be accounted for by haste differences.

So, what other issues should we be looking for, and are there any obvious explanations for the issues we seem to have diagnosed so far?

Also, we have noticed the power gains recorded in WoL seems odd, for what reason are negative power gains recorded, and could we infer anything from large positive or negative power gains in a log? Our Druid's log records greater gains than other druids.

Thanks a lot for any help,

Caldera

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Power gains for balance druids just record how far from his start position he ended the fight. So if he started at -100 (lunar) and ended at 100 (solar) it would show up as a much larger power gain than if he started and ended at the same position on the eclipse bar.

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Hey there, long time reader first time poster. Recently i switched from healing to dps, but i seem to fail at boomkin dps, compared to other parses i checked im doing rly bad. Did a lot of research, trying to keep my rotation balanced but i cant seem to do good, used wrathcalcs and according to it i should be doing 5-6 k more dps

Here is my armory and WoL, any tips will be apreciated

Zulbur @ Anachronos - Game - World of Warcraft

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

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Hey everyone,

I started raiding again a few months ago and I've noticed my dps to be pretty low compared to my guildies. I been messing around with wrathcalcs today and would really like some input from other more experienced moonkins =)

Ollivia @ Garona - Game - World of Warcraft

I only have this for logs:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

After completing all the gear setup , talents and glyphs in Wrathcalcs, I noticed that with the target dummy option selected, my dps should be around 23500k. and I'm not close to that at all, usually between 18500.

rotation is as follows:

IS-MF-W( treants) W till eclipse, SF, SS, Starfall and reapply dots as they fall off, keep using SF until Solar and so forth. I use Starfall on lunar at the beginning but afterwards its mostly never up with other lunar eclipses.

The main issue I'm seeing is that most of the times my dots fall off in between eclipses, not just against the target dummy sometimes in raid as well.

I've read so many different views on when to refresh dots, that I'm a bit lost, Do I need to refresh them before NG expires? or just at the start of an eclipse ? Should I just apply them twice per eclipse to guarantee that they don't fall of in between eclipses?

I'm working to better my dot uptime atm, I know its on the low side.

Any help and tips are really appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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Hey everyone,

I started raiding again a few months ago and I've noticed my dps to be pretty low compared to my guildies. I been messing around with wrathcalcs today and would really like some input from other more experienced moonkins =)

Ollivia @ Garona - Game - World of Warcraft

I only have this for logs:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

After completing all the gear setup , talents and glyphs in Wrathcalcs, I noticed that with the target dummy option selected, my dps should be around 23500k. and I'm not close to that at all, usually between 18500.

rotation is as follows:

IS-MF-W( treants) W till eclipse, SF, SS, Starfall and reapply dots as they fall off, keep using SF until Solar and so forth. I use Starfall on lunar at the beginning but afterwards its mostly never up with other lunar eclipses.

The main issue I'm seeing is that most of the times my dots fall off in between eclipses, not just against the target dummy sometimes in raid as well.

I've read so many different views on when to refresh dots, that I'm a bit lost, Do I need to refresh them before NG expires? or just at the start of an eclipse ? Should I just apply them twice per eclipse to guarantee that they don't fall of in between eclipses?

I'm working to better my dot uptime atm, I know its on the low side.

Any help and tips are really appreciated.

Thanks in advance

With the t124pc and your level of haste you should be able to get between eclipses fairly easy. Essentially, you never want to refresh dots outside of eclipse unless you are greater than 2 casts away from said eclipse, and even than..non eclipsed dots are just so weak its a toss up. If you are exiting an eclipse and have <8 seconds left on your dots than you should refresh them but this number is really only with the 4pc. Without the 4pc you would need a few more seconds to get between eclipses. I find going from solar -> lunar I have plenty of time left on my dots but going from lunar -> solar i find myself reapplying sometimes at the end of solar. Looking at your gear again it looks like you are about 13 haste points away from a major DI haste breakpoint at 2639. Judging from your logs it looks like you get DI on most encounters so this breakpoint applies to you. With a couple more haste points you'll see a nice improvement in dps just from that a lone.

Looking over your logs there is one main thing hurting your dps that you can definitely improve and will result in pretty much an automatic dps boosts. Im referring to your dot up time. It doesn't really hit 90 percent on any encounter in those logs and sits much lower around in the 70 percent range most of the time. It should be in the 90 range or realistically above if you want optimal DPS. DO you use any trackers like tell me when, need to know, power auras, etc? Because your dot uptime is so low it leads to a low natures grace uptime and in your logs considering you have DI, your NG uptime is really low and could be double what it is on some of those fights. The only way to really improve it is to make sure your refreshing your dots in eclipses and as close to the end of them as possible.

You may want to look into getting a new trinket to replace fiery quintessence because you should be able to reach your hit level just fine without it and have the benefit of a stronger trinket. Hope this helps :)

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With the t124pc and your level of haste you should be able to get between eclipses fairly easy. Essentially, you never want to refresh dots outside of eclipse unless you are greater than 2 casts away from said eclipse, and even than..non eclipsed dots are just so weak its a toss up. If you are exiting an eclipse and have <8 seconds left on your dots than you should refresh them but this number is really only with the 4pc. Without the 4pc you would need a few more seconds to get between eclipses. I find going from solar -> lunar I have plenty of time left on my dots but going from lunar -> solar i find myself reapplying sometimes at the end of solar. Looking at your gear again it looks like you are about 13 haste points away from a major DI haste breakpoint at 2639. Judging from your logs it looks like you get DI on most encounters so this breakpoint applies to you. With a couple more haste points you'll see a nice improvement in dps just from that a lone.

Looking over your logs there is one main thing hurting your dps that you can definitely improve and will result in pretty much an automatic dps boosts. Im referring to your dot up time. It doesn't really hit 90 percent on any encounter in those logs and sits much lower around in the 70 percent range most of the time. It should be in the 90 range or realistically above if you want optimal DPS. DO you use any trackers like tell me when, need to know, power auras, etc? Because your dot uptime is so low it leads to a low natures grace uptime and in your logs considering you have DI, your NG uptime is really low and could be double what it is on some of those fights. The only way to really improve it is to make sure your refreshing your dots in eclipses and as close to the end of them as possible.

You may want to look into getting a new trinket to replace fiery quintessence because you should be able to reach your hit level just fine without it and have the benefit of a stronger trinket. Hope this helps :)

Thank you for the quick reply =)

Yes I know my dot uptime in those logs is horrible, on previous ones it has been on average in the high 70s to low 80s, but that still needs improving. I do have power auras, but I guess I need to work on repositioning the timers of my dots. A guildie suggested Raven, so I will try a few different ones to see what works better for me. I know my main problem is my dot uptime, so hopefully with a little bit of addon repositioning, I'll do better.

The trinket fiery quintessence is not by choice, that's pretty much what I've been able to get.

Thanks again for your help =)

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Thank you for the quick reply =)

Yes I know my dot uptime in those logs is horrible, on previous ones it has been on average in the high 70s to low 80s, but that still needs improving. I do have power auras, but I guess I need to work on repositioning the timers of my dots. A guildie suggested Raven, so I will try a few different ones to see what works better for me. I know my main problem is my dot uptime, so hopefully with a little bit of addon repositioning, I'll do better.

The trinket fiery quintessence is not by choice, that's pretty much what I've been able to get.

Thanks again for your help =)

I would highly suggest need to know and tell me when. Both are excellent.

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Need To Know (NeedToKnow - Buffs & Debuffs - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse) is my favorite.

I use to track everything, Inquisition and AW/Zeal duration on my pally as ret, duration left of tank CDs as tank, MF/IS on my moonkin, and trinket procs. Flame Shock on my shaman, you name it.

I'm a huge fan. It takes a bit of manually configuring each bar to track desired thing, but it's worth it.

I didn't like PowerAuras, since that didn't give me those nice intuitive duration bars.

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