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Carebare

[Resto] Simple Questions + WoL Feedback

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Hey there,

I am primarily a 10 man healer, and have thus far kept to the 915 haste breakpoint and stacked mastery up to 23%. My gear is such that if I really stretched it I could probably reach the 2005 breakpoint at the expense of (obviously) a lot of mastery, some spirit and even some int. (it doesnt really help that so much of my gear has mastery on it natively)

Ive been hearing anecdotal reports that with the new efflo change scaling with the breakpoint, that I there will be a considerable throughput increase if I do infact reach the WG breakpoint. This is despite, according to some people, taking a loss of even 300 int to get there.

This seems really hard for me to swallow somehow, as mastery (at least in 10 mans) seems extremely powerful for reasons that you all know.

My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

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Hey there,

I am primarily a 10 man healer, and have thus far kept to the 915 haste breakpoint and stacked mastery up to 23%. My gear is such that if I really stretched it I could probably reach the 2005 breakpoint at the expense of (obviously) a lot of mastery, some spirit and even some int. (it doesnt really help that so much of my gear has mastery on it natively)

Ive been hearing anecdotal reports that with the new efflo change scaling with the breakpoint, that I there will be a considerable throughput increase if I do infact reach the WG breakpoint. This is despite, according to some people, taking a loss of even 300 int to get there.

This seems really hard for me to swallow somehow, as mastery (at least in 10 mans) seems extremely powerful for reasons that you all know.

My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

I too was struggling with this decision about whether or not to dump some int in order to gain the haste 2005 break point (this was at 4.06). I was in the same situation you were, and I decided to try it out and see the difference. This has been my experience:

1. My recount numbers in terms of total healing went up dramatically. However, with the switch to the 2005 haste breakpoint, I also changed my healing style considerable. I was primarily a tank heals - but as you know, in 10-man content, you realistically heal everyone in the raid...not just the tank. Now I focus more on raid heals because WG has become so powerful. I probably saw a jump of about 1-2k effective HPS because of the haste change and my switching to using WG nearly every time it is on CD. My WG numbers jumped from 2nd or 3rd place to a dominant first (accounting for a minimum of 35-40% of my effective HPS),

2, However, I am also "stuck" with my gear. Since I reforged everything to haste, gemmed a couple of slots with either +40 haste gems (in the fading violet sandles to get the extra +10 haste) and a few other spot gemmed with reckless (+20int/+20haste), everytime I come up with an upgrade that would increase my Intelligence, I need to make certain that I maintain my haste at 2005. For instance, I use the Sea Star trinket (heroic version) that grants +285 spirit. I reforged it to give me another +114 haste. In order to replace this trinket - even with one that would give me +321 intelligence - I would need to make up that 114 haste somewhere else. That's three Rubys that I would need to lose to make up for the haste. Clearly it is worth it to do so, but that is just an example of the itemization that you would need to take in to account as you switch over to haste-based gear.

3. Since I was reforging in to haste, I was reforging out of spirit - so now my mana regen has gone down noticably. This means I need to keep a closer eye on my mana.

4. All that being said, I would DEFINATELY do it again. The extra haste that I have seen increases my WG healing so it is still a no-brainer.

Does that help?

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I would like some assistance in better understanding the numbers that come out of the world of logs reports. Let's take this report as an example:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Looking at the Wild Growth line item, I'm confused about the following items:

1. Healing Done - this is pretty straight forward - its overall healing done, right? It is NOT effective healing, correct?

2. Hits - This is not relevant to WG because WG is a pure HoT - there are not direct hits like there would be for HT or Regrowth, correct? For the HT and RG numbers - the hits are the non-crit heals, correct?

3. Crits - This is the number of times WG critted - since WG doesn't crit, it looks like the numbers are duplicated for crits and Direct Heals (they are redundant numbers), correct? Furthermore, for WG what defines a Crit/Direct Heal versus a Tick?

You can see that I had 206 Crits, 206 Direct Heals and 604 ticks. What does this mean? Does this mean that I cast it (roughly) 38 times and it hit 6 people each time (roughly)...38*6 = 228 (of course there are going to be some times where it didn't hit all 6 people).

4. On the Ticks, it shows 604 ticks - what does this number represent? If I did cast it 38 times, I have the 2005 haste breakpoint, so it should tick 6 times - by my calculations, it should tick 1300 times, across 6 people - but I'm showing half that many.

Please help me decipher these numbers

Thanks!

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Healing done is the effective healing thats been done, Read last column of the chart, it says,"Overheal."

1. Healing Done - this is pretty straight forward - its overall healing done, right? It is NOT effective healing, correct?

Healing done is the effective healing thats been done, Read last column of the chart, it says,"Overheal."

2. Hits - This is not relevant to WG because WG is a pure HoT - there are not direct hits like there would be for HT or Regrowth, correct? For the HT and RG numbers - the hits are the non-crit heals, correct?

4. On the Ticks, it shows 604 ticks - what does this number represent? If I did cast it 38 times, I have the 2005 haste breakpoint, so it should tick 6 times - by my calculations, it should tick 1300 times, across 6 people - but I'm showing half that many.

Hit is non-crit heals

Crits is crit heals

Direct heal is total heals

Ticks are for HoTs.

for WG, how you know you casted it 38 times? Even if you did, are you 100% that it always hits 6 people?

3. Crits - This is the number of times WG critted - since WG doesn't crit, it looks like the numbers are duplicated for crits and Direct Heals (they are redundant numbers), correct? Furthermore, for WG what defines a Crit/Direct Heal versus a Tick?

You can see that I had 206 Crits, 206 Direct Heals and 604 ticks. What does this mean? Does this mean that I cast it (roughly) 38 times and it hit 6 people each time (roughly)...38*6 = 228 (of course there are going to be some times where it didn't hit all 6 people).

I thought all HoTs can be crits, Only the new Efflorescence can not crits.

I maybe wrong, but thats what I think those numbers are, Hope it helps =]

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Hey there,

I am primarily a 10 man healer, and have thus far kept to the 915 haste breakpoint and stacked mastery up to 23%. My gear is such that if I really stretched it I could probably reach the 2005 breakpoint at the expense of (obviously) a lot of mastery, some spirit and even some int. (it doesnt really help that so much of my gear has mastery on it natively)

Ive been hearing anecdotal reports that with the new efflo change scaling with the breakpoint, that I there will be a considerable throughput increase if I do infact reach the WG breakpoint. This is despite, according to some people, taking a loss of even 300 int to get there.

This seems really hard for me to swallow somehow, as mastery (at least in 10 mans) seems extremely powerful for reasons that you all know.

My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

Higher haste make your HoTs tick faster, which may result in less overheal.

In the ideal world, if a Full HoTs considered, mastery>haste, except when you hit a haste point.

In the real world, not that often that a Full HoTs will be done unless you two healing 10man content and/or doing heroic modes.

All that comes to a simple, pre HoTs situation.

Pre HoT before the damage is coming, WG then Rejuv the same target, so you benefits from the master, etc...

The new Efflorescence does scale with haste break points, and ideally mastery should be better than haste if not a haste break point.

Anyone can confirm if efflorescence scale benefit from master? such as healing HoT'ed target will be more than healing non-HoT'ed target?

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Anyone can confirm if efflorescence scale benefit from master? such as healing HoT'ed target will be more than healing non-HoT'ed target?

It doesnt in the way you describe, but that said your original swiftmend to proc the efflo does. More mastery = bigger efflo in that sense. If it did what you describe it would be double dipping mastery.

Thanks for the input concerning if it is worth me stacking haste to the 2005 point even in a 10 man environment. Ill bite the bullet and give it a shot.

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Hello,

I would like to ask for an advice on Heroic Neff 25. We have problems with him for some weeks now. After first tries we improved a lot, but still failing on a lot of random stuff, thus not getting into phase 3 that much. Surely, we need more practice there, but I decided to ask here about my healing.

Here are some logs before 4.1 patch:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

And here are logs from last reset:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Basically, I'm assigned to heal kiting tank (war) in P1, then healing Neff tank and 2 crackles, in P2 I'm healing pillar with 2 resto shammys. In P3 its again kiter of adds. I don't have that much time healing anything else, basically just putting rejuv on Neff tank and WG on crackle. When adds are dead or with low energy, I can afford channeling Tranq on one crackle or throwing some rejuvs on raid.

What I noticed is that despite rarely getting to P3 before 3 weeks Living Seed was 2% of my healing after whole night. On the other hand, Regrowth was lower than I was expecting. But speccing from Nature's Bounty to LS (since I found NS to be useful for healing kiter) will make my flash useless and some ToL + Regrowth spam on kitter when needed won't be viable option.

But I'm not that friendly with viewing logs and getting important information from them, so I would be pleased if someone skilled will make some time and take a look on these logs and tell me where I can improve.

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Hit is non-crit heals

Crits is crit heals

Direct heal is total heals

Ticks are for HoTs.

for WG, how you know you casted it 38 times? Even if you did, are you 100% that it always hits 6 people?

I assumed a lot :)

The total fight lasted 3:48 (228 seconds). I am fairly certain that I cast WG every single time it was up (or nearly). WG has an eight second CD, not accounting for haste - so I assumed a 6 sec CD (I'm guessing a lot here...didn't do the detailed math). 228/6 = 38. It seemed like a resonable number. However, I WISH that WoL could capture how many times I actually did cast WG (and like spells).

So - based on your information above for WG:

I had ZERO non-crit heals for WG

I had 206 crit heals for WG

I had 206 TOTAL heals for WG

I had 604 ticks of WG

These numbers don't seem to add up...

Let's assume for a second, I'm trying to find out how many times I did cast WG. Above, I assumed that I cast it 38 times because of the following:

1. The total length of the encounter was 228 seconds

2. I cast WG every time it was up (assumption-potentially flawed)

3. My WG CD, based on my haste, is 6 seconds

These are big assumptions.

But let's take a different perspective and assume some different things:

1. Because of the way that WG works - the number of crit heals and the number of direct heals are actually referring to the same number - in other words, they are redundant.

2. There are no crit heals for WG (I seem to remember reading this, but memory is often faulty - this needs to be tested and can be easily tested...when I'm not at work :))

3. The actual number of people that get hit by my WG, on average, is 5

4. The # of crits/direct heals refers to the first tick of WG

5. The # of ticks refers to the other 5 ticks of WG (with a haste > 2005)

Based on these assumptions, I want to calculate the number of times that I cast WG. If I add the crit/direct heals (206) + the ticks (604), I get 810. 810 divided by the number of average people hit (5) is 162 total ticks. If I divide this number by 6 (the number of ticks in WG) I get 27 - this is the assumption on how many times that I've cast WG.

This is based on the aforementioned assumptions...and I wanted to validate my assumptions of #1, #2, #4, and #5.

Thanks in advance to any feedback!

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1. I believe they are the same

2. I remember reading all HoT can crit.

3. how do you know that?

4. I think they take crit heals as direct heals

5. ticks refers to the non ticks on WG

And I suggest you read up carefully, 2005 is the haste break point for 9th ticks, unless I remember it wrong.

so it is 206+604=810 totally ticks, 810/9=90 (810 totally ticks/9ticks ea=90 players got hit by it), 90/5players =18 times you casted it.

18*6=108 seconds up

108/228=0.47% up

time up 48.9%, but close enough

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My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

I can offer my experiences on this switch too, because I've been in the exact same situation - I was hugging 915 with mastery and spirit coming out of my ears, and I made the switch.

Before the switch I'd been buying Spi/Mas items for valor, so in preparation I bought the Has/Cri items instead. I waited until I could comfortably reforge and gem to haste without losing *too*much power elsewhere - I think this point was when I could get to about 1700 native haste on my gear. Post-switch I lost about 2-3 points of mastery and a few hundred spirit.

The lack of mastery has certainly been notable, and mana's tight, but the throughput increase is really nice. WG and Eff ticks are considerably faster, and I can get a Nourish off in 1.4 with the right procs - fantastic for Chimaeron! It does force you to change your healing style, but I think that's a good thing. I'm conscious that I wasn't healing as effectively as I could be, pre-switch, which meant my overheal and mana consumption were less than optimal. Now I'm having to work hard to stop myself from OOMing (4-set t11 helps), but the outcome is a definite improvement.

Long story short - if switching would massacre your other secondaries, don't do it. But it's totally worth it when you can manage it.

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Hi!

I need a litle help.

So here is this Quote from the first post:

"You should be aware of haste breakpoints for your HoT's--for example Rejuvenation gains a 5th tick at 916 haste and Wild Growth/Efflorescence gain a 9th tick at 2005 haste (assuming a 5% haste buff and no Dark Intent)."

I got 1451 spellhaste and my rejuvenation stil ticks only 4 times + the extra heal from Gift of the Earthmother talent. Here is a screenshot to prove it

Any idea why is this or whats wrong with my poor druid? :(

(here is the armory link, if it helps)

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Hi!

I need a litle help.

So here is this Quote from the first post:

"You should be aware of haste breakpoints for your HoT's--for example Rejuvenation gains a 5th tick at 916 haste and Wild Growth/Efflorescence gain a 9th tick at 2005 haste (assuming a 5% haste buff and no Dark Intent)."

You actually answered your own question with the quote you quoted. Read that again.

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The 916 haste break point applies when you have the 5% haste buff from your group (spriest, boomkin, shammy). You even said this in your quote.

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But 916 + 5% = 962 haste and i got 1451. I don't get it.

The 5% haste buff is not 5% of your haste. It is an actual 5% increase in haste (equal to 640.28505 haste rating at level 85).

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It is 5% haste not 5% haste rating.

you need 128.05716 haste rating at 85 to get 1% haste. So if your missing 5% haste you need (128.05716*5) 640.2858 to make it up. So without 5% haste buff you need 916 + 640.2858 = 1557 haste rating to get that extra tick.

You see?

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I have been pondering a few things over the past two to three weeks. Originally, I went to my guild's alt raid and did okay on healing - I can pull off first and sometimes second. I came back from a long break with my last raid experience being heroic mimiron/0 keeper yogg, and anub 25 with 40+ attempts. I can see that healing has changed a bit, but I am now raiding.

I was thrown into healing heroic Magmaw, Maloriak, Atramedes, Chimaeron, and Halfus. Most of them seemed okay, but my healing was obviously a lot lower compared to their main raiders. After reading, reading, and more reading, I know that int>spellpower>spirit>haste>mastery/>crit. I understand that crit/mastery should generally be reforged. I was comparing myself to the two other druids in my raid (here is mine: Nectarine, and the other two: Krox, and Meliandria). We are all at different levels of gear. Krox has the highest haste and intellect.

My question is - HOW do I get to the 2005 haste point? I have some orange gems in, but I'd rather not enchant my boots with haste because I like the 8% run speed. I am so confused on how to get the needed haste to keep up with the other healers. I could take spirit off Mandala and get haste on that - but I am unsure if that is worth it. Any help would be awesome.

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I am having a discussion with the resto druid in my guild and he is claiming that with all available external and personal abilities used on CD (replenishment, Innervate, druid talents) that "... Spirit gives more Mp5 than Intellect, but a resto druid will get more total mana from Intellect during an encounter".

I don't think we are taking mana pool size into consideration ( at least I am not) it is purely from a mana regen POV. Is this correct or is spirit giving more mana regen per point then int is? We have gone back and forth with what math capabilities we have but have not come to an agreement (I think his math actually proves my point but w/e).

If this is not the case and Spirit is better, purely for regen, then INT does anyone know about how close they are? I have admitted, and we agree, that INT is the #1 stat for casters we just disagree on the amounts of regen from the two stats.

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Acintheira,

He can get the marginal value of a point of Int or Spirit by using TreeCalcs. I can easily make choices that change their relative values drastically.

Download TreeCalcs 110427.xls (5-minute fight, Druids trade glyphed innervates, druid not specced into furor)

1 Spirit = .70 MP5

1 Int = .95 MP5

Innervate self, and use an infinite-duration fight and spirit stays the same, but Int drops to 0.62 MP5.

In addition, remove Mana Tide, and the Int value drops to .49 MP5

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Acinetheira, It's a mute point really. You'll never gem spirit over int, and you can't reforge int to spirit, which you shouldn't want to anyway as both choices would nerf our healing making your regen ultimately useless. Unless your whole point is deciding a tertiary stat after haste between spirit and mastery, in which case I'd go spirit, especially as you get into later hard modes where fights become longer and more healing intensive throughout that length.

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Thanks for the replies guys. It was more of a though experiment then anything else. We were trying to figure out what was the best stat for pure regen. I'm sure TreeCalcs will be able to put to rest any theoretical and/or realistic questions we have. There was never any argument that INT was the best over all stat.

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I need some assistance from a Mac user with setting up WoL Client on my system. I am getting an error that the /Applications/WorldofWarcraft/WorldofLogsClient.txt is unable to be read error when I try to launch the default client. I have read places that either tweaking is needed for Java on the default client, or there may be a Mac client I have not found.

If there is anyone that uses both a Mac and WoL, please lend me your time and assistance to get this set up. You will have my eternal gratitude.

[Entry made after approval from Carebare in PM]

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No WoL feedback needed here, more of a simple question, browsed through and have not really found anything on it. We have a resto druid who only innervates themselves claiming the glyph is bugged and thus is restoring 30% of their mana, while other healers have done nothing but complain that the resto druid should never ever be getting an innervate. Now I am not a healer so I can see both sides of the coin, but my understanding is that due to class mechanics and abilities using innervate on yourself(if there is not another tree in raid) is the way to go due to really low combat regen comparatively speaking. I will include logs from last night as well as the druids armory. So I guess, are they correct about the glyph? Do you see anything off with the spell usage(they are raid healing)? Is it normal, or is there a problem that they are getting almost every single innervate cast by themselves and the boomkin? Thanks is advance

WoL-sample H Atramedes kill-

Armory

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We have a resto druid who only innervates themselves claiming the glyph is bugged and thus is restoring 30% of their mana, while other healers have done nothing but complain that the resto druid should never ever be getting an innervate.

The glyph is not bugged. I would routinely swap innervates with the other resto druid in raid, but whenever she was absent, I would innervate myself and gain no extra mana from the glyph.

If you look carefully in the logs, you'll see that the moonkin innervated the resto druid 3 times (71577 mana), while your resto self-innervated twice (49623 mana). The moonkin gained additional mana from the glyph (27662 mana), which is listed separately in WoL. The resto druid received no additional mana from self-innervating.

Five innervates in one attempt is probably a little excessive, so I understand why your other healers are complaining. If the resto is receiving innervates from the moonkin regularly, which seems to be the case, then the resto should easily be able to give out innervates without being pressed for mana - it's the same amount of mana as a resto-resto swap.

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