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Wizeowel

[Cataclysm] Mage Simple Questions and Answers (Read the First Post)

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If you have a simple question that only requires a simple answer and don't see a better place to post it, this is your thread. Forum rules still apply although rule #7 is relaxed. However, if you ask a question that is clearly explained in one of the spec specific threads, then your post may still be infracted. Asking people to make specific gear or spec decisions for you is still against the rules. Proper capitalization, punctuation, and spelling are important even in short posts. This thread is for simple questions- not stupid ones.

Furthermore, we are now allowing you to post your World of Logs parses if you feel stuck with respect to your DPS. Please note you must follow the criteria listed here:

  • The parse must be from a 10 or 25 man raid (non-heroic is fine). 5-mans and target dummies are not welcome.
  • In line with this, you must be max level (85). We're not about to look over a log from a level 70 Sunwell run.
  • Your profile MUST work. If you tend to change specs/log out in PVP gear please create a character profile through Wowhead or a similar site. That way if your issue is related to your gear, help can be provided.
  • You must give a few sentences regarding what you think your problem is. Are you moving a lot due to fight mechanics? Do you perform some vital secondary role that may impact your DPS? (kiting, etc). We can't help you if you don't help us.

Please note that this thread is no exception to how the rest of our forums work regarding the fact that no one is obligated to help you. Do not bump, repost, or cry about it.

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Has there been any definitive answer on whether the patch changes has made blizzard the preferable aoe spell for fire mages as well? (After spreading dots with impact of course) A quick glance at tool tip damage seems to show that blizzard does roughly 3x the amount of damage as flamestrike, over the same duration. Obviously the difference in casting/channeling may make a bit of difference here, I curious as to if anyone has worked out the math?

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This may be old or new i've read through several forums and can't seem to find any information that isn't outdated back to Wrath. I've been experiencing a LOT of Hot Streak overwriting my procs. Seems that Hot Streak and Improved Hotstreak are overwriting one another I'm getting in my combat logs (which i have a screen capture of to back this up) that I had two crit procs of fireball but my log says I gained a Hotstreak and time stamp exactly the same says that its refreshed my Hotstreak. Is there a way to avoid this? Or is this just an occurrence that's unavoidable? Also flight time on FB while queing my next fireball seems to cause overwriting also. usually with less than a second between procs. Any advice?

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I have been tinkering with Rawr/Simcraft but I can't seem to figure out a definitive number for the arcane mage haste cap. I have been assuming full 25 man buffs and attempting to push my bloodlusted AB cast time as close to one second as possible. I am coming up with somewhere around 1434 haste rating assuming Troll racials. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong?

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I have been tinkering with Rawr/Simcraft but I can't seem to figure out a definitive number for the arcane mage haste cap. I have been assuming full 25 man buffs and attempting to push my bloodlusted AB cast time as close to one second as possible. I am coming up with somewhere around 1434 haste rating assuming Troll racials. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong?

The cap is ~10.7% (with 4pc t11) haste before lust. Assuming Netherwind Presence and raid buff 5%, you should need about 2.36% haste or 302 rating from gear to be at 1 sec casts during lust. I assume by Troll Racials you don't mean berserking, because with berserking and lust and nothing else, you would be well past the cap.

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This may be old or new i've read through several forums and can't seem to find any information that isn't outdated back to Wrath. I've been experiencing a LOT of Hot Streak overwriting my procs. Seems that Hot Streak and Improved Hotstreak are overwriting one another I'm getting in my combat logs (which i have a screen capture of to back this up) that I had two crit procs of fireball but my log says I gained a Hotstreak and time stamp exactly the same says that its refreshed my Hotstreak. Is there a way to avoid this? Or is this just an occurrence that's unavoidable? Also flight time on FB while queing my next fireball seems to cause overwriting also. usually with less than a second between procs. Any advice?

You might want to check here: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/p19/#post1920635

and the posts above and below it. There's nothing concrete at the moment, but there is a hint at some changes to the HS proc chances.

If the proc is simultaneous then you're out of luck with the overwriting. It has been happening to me on occasion as well.

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Been trying to find a definitive answer on these forums with regards to caps for fire mages - in specific crit chance.

For my mage, ive been getting the hit cap and then reforging any mastery or haste into crit and managing a rating of 2175 (which is 23% unbuffed).

The simple question is, how efficient is it for me to be continually pumping all haste/mastery into crit? Are there actual caps making increasing this no longer viable over using haster or mastery?

I imagine this is quite a loaded question but hoping some of you guys might be able to point me in the right direction.

Delly

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Been trying to find a definitive answer on these forums with regards to caps for fire mages - in specific crit chance.

For my mage, ive been getting the hit cap and then reforging any mastery or haste into crit and managing a rating of 2175 (which is 23% unbuffed).

The simple question is, how efficient is it for me to be continually pumping all haste/mastery into crit? Are there actual caps making increasing this no longer viable over using haster or mastery?

I imagine this is quite a loaded question but hoping some of you guys might be able to point me in the right direction.

Delly

Have you even read: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/#Combat_Ratings ?

First off you're off base with your hit cap. 17% is the cap, not 23%. Secondly, haste vs crit for fire is VERY gear dependent. Read through some of the simcraft or RAWR stuff to get a handle on that. In fact, try using this: elitistjerks.com/rawr.php

Just an off note here. I'm not hit capped. Haven't ever been. I'm close now, but I've been as far as 2-3% below and still managed good DPS.

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Have you even read: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/#Combat_Ratings ?

First off you're off base with your hit cap. 17% is the cap, not 23%. Secondly, haste vs crit for fire is VERY gear dependent. Read through some of the simcraft or RAWR stuff to get a handle on that. In fact, try using this: elitistjerks.com/rawr.php

Just an off note here. I'm not hit capped. Haven't ever been. I'm close now, but I've been as far as 2-3% below and still managed good DPS.

Thanks for the agressive response - yes i've read said thread and if you read my post correctly, you would see im referring to my CRIT being 23% not my hit - i know hit cap is 17% and have that bang on.

Back to the combat ratings part - i think this has been recently made moot by patch 4.1 that eliminated the majority of ignite munching issues from periodic damage (but happy to be corrected here).

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That would be my bad on mis reading that then. Sorry.

Thus far I've seen two schools of thought on the ignite munching. I personally feel it's been eliminated (as long as you don't toss a proc'd Pyro! right after a fireball/scorch/fire blast. Although the issue really would be moot as the ignite from the Pyro! should be bigger... but you'd still lose out on the previous ignite.

This post gets at a little simcraft to the haste vs crit currently in post 4.1: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/p18/#post1918974

As well as a few posts around that area.

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That would be my bad on mis reading that then. Sorry.

Thus far I've seen two schools of thought on the ignite munching. I personally feel it's been eliminated (as long as you don't toss a proc'd Pyro! right after a fireball/scorch/fire blast. Although the issue really would be moot as the ignite from the Pyro! should be bigger... but you'd still lose out on the previous ignite.

This post gets at a little simcraft to the haste vs crit currently in post 4.1: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/p18/#post1918974

As well as a few posts around that area.

Been a bad day at work for me hence the agressive response from me - apologies.

I was afraid of the haste vs crit answer. I have been following the threads but I think it'll be just an indecisive answer - maybe for now im better evenly spreading between crit and haste - ill do some scenarios on the rawr and simc.

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I personally feel it's been eliminated (as long as you don't toss a proc'd Pyro! right after a fireball/scorch/fire blast. Although the issue really would be moot as the ignite from the Pyro! should be bigger... but you'd still lose out on the previous ignite.
Actually, the only scenario of those that is likely to result in a lost ignite is if you cast Pyroblast! right after a Fireball. The travel time of Pyroblast is usually sufficient to prevent munching after an instant spell. Unfortunately, although only limited testing has been performed, the results suggest that in this case, the larger ignite from the Pyroblast is the most likely to be lost.

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RE: Arcane Mage "rotation". I've read some light theorycrafting to a second, smaller burn phase using fire orb. Essentially, after you're back to 100% after the first burn, you do a 2nd smaller burn and use fire orb arcane missile procs to get back to full once that's over. Is this in any way substantiated? I didn't see anything in the arcane mage compendium regarding this.

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RE: Arcane Mage "rotation". I've read some light theorycrafting to a second, smaller burn phase using fire orb. Essentially, after you're back to 100% after the first burn, you do a 2nd smaller burn and use fire orb arcane missile procs to get back to full once that's over. Is this in any way substantiated? I didn't see anything in the arcane mage compendium regarding this.

Could you link to that TC Terrorific? I'd be interested to read up on it a bit more. I personally toss the Orb out while I have my Spell power and Int buffs up during the burn phase so it gets the bonuses from that. Then I drop into a conservation phase or 3 or 4 AB and then missle/barrage.

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Working on my Chog'all HM spec and wondered; does the 100% blood buff/debuff also makes you immun to Cauterize healing?

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You retain the amount of health that you had right before receiving the "killing" blow and get healed for about 334 HP, depending on your health, you have to iceblock before the first or second tick.

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Nice to know it. So basically is it better to keep IB for a huge shadow add going to be absorbed by Cho'gall or keep it for cauterize ?

I'm also working on cho'gall hm, I understood that spirit link totem could heal me... Can I also be heald by Vampiric Embrace ?

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You seem to misunderstand the mechanics. Absolute corruption reduces healing received by 99%. Nothing but 3 groups of paladins can heal through this. Spiritlink totem does not heal you, it changes your HP. The high HP of the other players in range gets distributed to you. If they get some healing, you get some HP.

As to the best usage of Iceblock: There is nothing I can say about, I just tried Absolute Corruption for a Normal Mode kill last lockout, for fun basically. A more experienced and progressed mage than me has to step in to give an answer.

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As for Cho'gall HC, I use my Ice Block for the first Unleashed Shadows AoE, right after I get Corruption: Absolute at 100 Corruption, because I found out that IB removes Corruption: Malformation, which applies to everyone after 75 Corruption.

I give healers less pain doing this, and also when the deflection bug worked for tanks with glyphed Grounding Totems, my tentacles did not randomly destroy Grounding Totems this way. :)

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I was reading about the PoM trick today that Arcane mages use at the beginning of a fight to get the Arcane Potency buff before the pull, and PoM would be off cooldown shortly after to make use of it again. It got me to thinking of other things I could do at the start of a fight as Arcane to improve the opening burst sequence. Most people pre-pot with the 1200 int volcanic potions for a 25 second spell power boost which also increase our mana pool size. If we pre-potted a couple seconds earlier and then ate our mage food to fill up our 12k larger mana pool before the pull, would this not allow us to make better use of Mana Adept, as well as have a slightly longer burst phase?

It seems to me this would be a theoretical damage increase over the course of a fight. The only loss I can see is that you would have to take your potion a few seconds earlier, so you would potentially have the int buff for about 3 seconds less then you normally would from pre-potting. Does anyone know if this would be a worthwhile damage increase? or am I just overcomplicating the start of the fight for an insignificant change?

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For Heroic Chogal (10man), I use the following cooldowns:

IB (also removes tentacle debuff)

Pain Sup

Barrier

Aura Mastery + Hand of Sacrifice

Spirit Link Totem (this makes the whole thing super easy).

Pain Sup / Aura Mastery / Hand of Sacrifice probably up by now.

To be honest, if you have Spirit Link totem, you can be sloppy with your cooldown use and still live to P2. Without Spirit Link I have still lived to P2, but it required every Shadow AoE to be properly reduced by a cooldown, and for weaker cooldowns to be merged together.

Also be sure to use Mirror of Broken Images and use it every Shadow AoE available, or combine it with weaker cooldowns.

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As a fire mage, at what level of haste is it considered optimal to make changes to the standard rotation? For example, if we experience a 0.9-second cast time on Fireball, is that far enough below the 1-second GCD floor to merit hard-casting Pyroblast instead? Likewise, at what point is it best to leave Living Bomb out of the rotation?

Edit: Another interesting study would be to determine at similar levels of gear and extreme levels of haste (eg. Sinestra) the point at which the fire spec becomes preferable to arcane in single-target situations.

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As a fire mage, at what level of haste is it considered optimal to make changes to the standard rotation? For example, if we experience a 0.9-second cast time on Fireball, is that far enough below the 1-second GCD floor to merit hard-casting Pyroblast instead? Likewise, at what point is it best to leave Living Bomb out of the rotation?

Edit: Another interesting study would be to determine at similar levels of gear and extreme levels of haste (eg. Sinestra) the point at which the fire spec becomes preferable to arcane in single-target situations.

I believe this would be as simple as recording your exact cast time (say, 0.92s for Fireball), multiplying its Simcrafted DPET*0.92 (to account for the lost time under the hard GCD cap), and comparing to the DPET of the direct damage portion of a hard-cast Pyroblast, plus the appropriate DPET of Pyroblast DoT ticks. The DoT portion might be low due to the constant DoT refreshing (3.0s minus haste modifiers) versus quick cast time (sub-2s). The Pyro DoT might only be allowed to tick during LB refreshes (also questionably useful, as they're sub-GCD with extreme haste too) or other instants.

Edit: Sorry if that wasn't definitive; I'll do some math and hopefully get back to you soon.

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I believe this would be as simple as recording your exact cast time (say, 0.92s for Fireball), multiplying its Simcrafted DPET*0.92 (to account for the lost time under the hard GCD cap), and comparing to the DPET of the direct damage portion of a hard-cast Pyroblast, plus the appropriate DPET of Pyroblast DoT ticks. The DoT portion might be low due to the constant DoT refreshing (3.0s minus haste modifiers) versus quick cast time (sub-2s). The Pyro DoT might only be allowed to tick during LB refreshes (also questionably useful, as they're sub-GCD with extreme haste too) or other instants.

Edit: Sorry if that wasn't definitive; I'll do some math and hopefully get back to you soon.

Note that due to the new nature of DoTs in cataclysm, the pyro dot will continue to tick, even if constantly refreshed. Your point isn't invalid, but the DoT damage isn't reduced by it being refreshed.

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Note that due to the new nature of DoTs in cataclysm, the pyro dot will continue to tick, even if constantly refreshed. Your point isn't invalid, but the DoT damage isn't reduced by it being refreshed.

Your point about the refreshing is true; however, the DoT damage would in fact be a lesser contributing factor because instead of ticking for the usual period between Hot Streaks (say, 6 seconds) the DoTs would not stack and would each tick for under 2 seconds, or the time it takes to hard-cast a Pyro while hasted. I'll update this post in the morning with a SimCraft output using the appropriate action list.

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