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BIS DPS Warrior Discussion

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The reason Apparatus is funky is because it's a crit - on use. It doesnt work as well as strength with effect stacks. It doesn't mix with recklessness. Do you want 14% more crit on top of your already 75-85% crit on your abilities? What really is the chance to get another crit within the precious 6s CS window? It's better to use around a CS that's not covered by Recklessness and that means you have to adjust the trinket timings a bit.

From my experience I've always found that if the trinket has a periodic proc, it better be Strength/AP, period. The only exception would be if nothing comparable was available. Procs that increase the strike size have the greatest potential to boost your damage because you could have crit them all if you were lucky.

Why say that Essence of Eternal Flame is bad? It's short cooldown and duration allows almost half of it's uptime to be covered by CS, which is a 40% boost in itself. In my spreadsheet, I couldn't get Apparatus to be even close to Essence as TG using the new Custom Event Matrix. The CEM allows you to stack any cooldown at any time in any combination the game will allow. Comparing Apparatus to HoR was no contest.

Don't let stat combinations on trinkets fool you. It's more about their proc and how they scale with things like CS/DW/Reck and how often.

As far as trinkets go this is how I would rank them:

Vessel

Apparatus (H)

HoR (H)

Essence (TG) / Lisence (SMF)

Apparatus

Apparatus will be an expensive paperweight in your bank. The flat STR is good but it's crit proc doesnt scale at all.

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I do realize that cooldown stacking is not taken into account with SimC; but with a 1 min cooldown, Essence of the Eternal Flame will line up with every 3rd CS in the simulation without outside tampering. I might have exaggerated a bit on a substantial dps loss though. It was about an 800 dps loss from (H)HoR and the (H)Apparatus when it was reforged for crit. I did think that it would be higher damage compaired to normal mode trinkets though I ranked [iTEM]70141[/iTEM] higher even though the ICD in SimC is incorrect. (Its listed as having a 100 second ICD when it has a 45 second ICD)

These are the sets I used to test the trinkets.

(H)Apparatus

Essence of the Eternal Flame

(H)HoR

Dwyer's Caber

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Vessel

Apparatus (H)

HoR (H)

Essence (TG) / Liscence (SMF)

Apparatus

I agree with your discussion, I would however rate HoR (H) as the stronger trinket over Apparatus (H) on most encounters. The on use-trinkets (essence/apparatus) can be better on fights where certain phases needs more dps than others, as internal cooldowns are hard, if not impossible to time.

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The main problem with HoR, is stacking cooldowns within first 30 sec of the fight. In 1 out of 10(sometimes even more often) it takes 20+seconds to proc, after pre-pot falls off, sometimes if you're "lucky" Avalanche, which will very likely proc within first 10 seconds, will also fall off.

So the algorithm of popping cooldowns becomes very tricky. Shoud you press Death Wish as soon as you hit the boss, to align it with pre-pot, and assuming that one of CS'S during DW will very likely be covered by the HoR proc+Recklessness? Or should you wait till the HoR procs to toggle DW on, so that 20 seconds of DW will be covered by the +Str buff?

From this point, Apparatus seems very good, as you don't bother when to use DW or Reck. You just pop it at once in the beginning, and use trinket for the 2nd CS. Thus you have DW fully covered by the +crit buffs, with no rage issues due to high Flurry uptime.

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Well, tbh I personally had a little issue with hor. While moving on from t11 to t12, I found myself overly capped in expertise, thus forced to reforge out of it. As a result, I got stuck with a lot of haste that I would otherwise had reforged into crit, dropping the value of hor ,since it was "forcing" me to non optimal reforges.

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As far as trinkets go this is how I would rank them:

Vessel

Apparatus (H)

HoR (H)

Essence (TG) / Lisence (SMF)

Apparatus

Apparatus will be an expensive paperweight in your bank. The flat STR is good but it's crit proc doesnt scale at all.

Ok Would it be possible to get a ranking for trinkets on the OP of this post?

Also could we breakdown the rankings to include the trinkets 365+? (and any lesser trinkets that outperform better like the LtS.) I just unlocked [iTEM]70141[/iTEM] and it would be great to see where that trinket falls considering it will be an easily obtainable trinket by all.

Based on posts above the current ranking is:

#1 [iTEM]69167[/iTEM] Heroic

#2 [iTEM]68995[/iTEM]

#3 [iTEM]69113[/iTEM] Heroic

#4 [iTEM]65072[/iTEM] Heroic

#5 [iTEM]69002[/iTEM] TG [iTEM]58180[/iTEM] SMF

#6 [iTEM]68972[/iTEM]

Unranked trinkets that should be added:

[iTEM]59224[/iTEM]

[iTEM]70141[/iTEM]

[iTEM]65118[/iTEM] Heroic

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This is the best in slot thread, and most of the trinkets listed are very easy to obtain, no reason to list any others.

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This may be out of place in a BiS thread, but I would like to ask if this is taking into account that Fury of Angerforge, and Apparatus can be used at the same time. I have been swapping around those plus licence and the caber, and, anecdotaly, seem to be getting the best result using those two in conjunction.

I know I was very surprised that I was able to activate both of them at the same time, and as I have not seen it mentioned here am wondering if that might not be being accounted for. Two on use trinkets that can be stacked would certainly magnify the value of the pair together correct?

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Personaly, I pre-pot, DW and Reck at the start, also using with every other CD I have, so I get 5 stacks ASAP. I use apparatus as soon as possible this way. I do not hold back my CS, since titanic power stacks on Crits and sometimes it may take as much as 10 seconds to get all 5 of those crits if I am unlucky, meaning that delaying CS might make me lose up to a half of a CS.

When my CDs come back, I wait the extra couple seconds for the apparatus to be off CD as well, so that I can stack them all together. Depending on the length of the fight, I will choose to delay CDs to stack them with DW and Reck or I will use them ASAP only delaying DW or Reck several secondes for my other CDs to come back. In a fight allowing the use of 5 DWs, you can delay the 5th DW to line up with all your other CDs including Reck.

I also like the fact that I can choose to use the apparatus in burst phases such as the elementals on Ragnaros or the adds on Majordomo Staghelm. (Note that I will never delay CDs more then about 30% of there CD since it is to much of a dps loss.)

I had problems adapting to its usage at first (when do I use it? do I stack CDs with it? should I delay it?), but now that I am comfortable with it, it is a lot smoother to run.

I am an orc engineer, so I have Synapse Springs and Blood Fury as extra CDs.

Edit: Forgot to ask my question: Anyone else have a technique on how to use his apparatus to maximize his DPS taking into account raid encounter mechanics?

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I don't see why you would use Apparatus right away after popping the DW/Reck combo. DW's long duration allows you to use Reck and then once that falls off you can us Apparatus for the rest of DW. This also allows your 2nd CS to be covered by not only DW, but also Apparatus.

Last week was really the first week I got to use the trinket in raid, and I was finding that playing it this way will bring Apparatus back up in time for your 2nd Deathwish.

Reck comes off of CD between my 2nd and 3rd DW, so I was waiting on it until my 3rd to come back off of CD assuming I wouldn't get a 3rd Reck into the fight. This basically resets things and you use Apparatus the same as you did the first time, after Reck, during DW covering the 2nd CS.

Please correct me if I'm using things wrong, but I believe this to be the best use of this trinket.

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I don't see why you would use Apparatus right away after popping the DW/Reck combo. DW's long duration allows you to use Reck and then once that falls off you can us Apparatus for the rest of DW. This also allows your 2nd CS to be covered by not only DW, but also Apparatus.

Last week was really the first week I got to use the trinket in raid, and I was finding that playing it this way will bring Apparatus back up in time for your 2nd Deathwish.

Reck comes off of CD between my 2nd and 3rd DW, so I was waiting on it until my 3rd to come back off of CD assuming I wouldn't get a 3rd Reck into the fight. This basically resets things and you use Apparatus the same as you did the first time, after Reck, during DW covering the 2nd CS.

Please correct me if I'm using things wrong, but I believe this to be the best use of this trinket.

That is pretty much how I use it aswell. Using Synapse Springs aswell, since it doesn't put Apparatus on CD. I'm not sure if I should save the shout for it aswell with the new 2 piece set bonus, but I guess it would feel to chunky doung so.

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Would it be possible to have a normal BiS list (359/378) added as Landsoul used to do during Wrath?

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Would it be possible to have a normal BiS list (359/378) added as Landsoul used to do during Wrath?

It would be the same list, only with the non-heroic items version.

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It would be the same list, only with the non-heroic items version.

That may not be entirely true, as there are 378s available that are not upgradable. They may outshine some of the normal version items, but obviously not their heroic counterparts. There may be a few 365s that fill that role as well. Of course then you would have to decide if you include heroic T11 372 gear.

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That may not be entirely true, as there are 378s available that are not upgradable. They may outshine some of the normal version items, but obviously not their heroic counterparts. There may be a few 365s that fill that role as well. Of course then you would have to decide if you include heroic T11 372 gear.

That's true in the case of the heroic tanking belt being better then the rep belt when you're full bis. My main concern with a 378 bis list is that if you can beat Ragnaros you can beat H Shannox, which makes the 384 Rag weapons more of a curiosity than anything.

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With H Apa, has any one tried using the Mastery buff? If you stack it with DW, it moves from giving ~30% damage to ~50%+. Just a thought, not sure if anyone has tested yet, I found that it gives me insane burst dps. Thanks.

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With H Apa, has any one tried using the Mastery buff? If you stack it with DW, it moves from giving ~30% damage to ~50%+. Just a thought, not sure if anyone has tested yet, I found that it gives me insane burst dps. Thanks.

What, so you sacrifice Crit for mastery, so that Mastery is your highest rating and will be chosen?

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In these profile, you are over expertise by too much and aren't following the best reforging strategy. If you reforge out of expertise on the alysrazor's band, you will lose 69 expertise, but the reforge # on the earthcrack bracers is 63, and instead of reforging to hit there just to expertise.

This trade will but the character at 783 exp rating, 2-3 away form the cap plus has additional crit because of the reforging change on the ring.

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quickly threw something together. Would it be somewhere like this? For SMF that is.

chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

fixed. chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

expertise rating at 781 (1 rating over cap).

using [iTEM]71215[/iTEM] in place of [iTEM]71208[/iTEM] since even those not downing heroic bosses can still get exalted with the Avengers of Hyjal.

chose [iTEM]70738[/iTEM] over [iTEM]71208[/iTEM] because of the red socket and socket bonus (extra 50 str)

i left [iTEM]58180[/iTEM] because anyone can get it without having to run any additional raids. i'd still be interested to see how it compares to the regular version of [iTEM]59224[/iTEM] since I currently don't have access to the heroic version.

edited to correct the heroic tooltips

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I'm really undecided as to if H HoR is really better than Essence and my only argument is that u can line up essence with each DW and sneak one in between. HoR usually doesn't proc during your second DW. So taking that into note, is it still better to get the 2178 str at random times or be able to line up and extra 1277 str with each DW and all your other cd's ?

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