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Melthu

[Feral-Bear] Thrashing around 4.2 (OLD)

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I'm still somewhat lost over stam vs agi. I'm getting conflicting opinions. My bear is US>BLACKROCK>EWALL . He's configured almost exactly how rawr suggests and it's almost entirely stacked stam, but above I'm reading stuff like survive 2.5 hits then gem agi. I think with about 200k health that's more than 2.5 hits, but it doesn't seem like I'm missing out on that much mitigation. In rawr if I optimize for only mitigation, I gain very little mitigation and lose a whole bunch of survivability. Stacked stam, I'm sitting at about 37% dodge and 86% total mitigation if I remember right. I keep hearing that getting to agi gems is the way to go but I honestly don't see why. Could it be that mitigation in general is a good idea but agi gemming gets very little mitigation gain at a high survivability cost?

In response to the "why" portion, there are a number of benefits that agility gives that stamina cannot contend with:

* Agility increases the critical strike percentage and thus gives us a greater chance of activating savage defense

* Agility increases our attack power and thus increases the amount of damage absorbed by savage defense

* Agility increases our chance to dodge (243.58 agility=1% dodge)

Essentially one stat improves our threat, mitigation, and avoidance which stamina cannot hold a candle to after you're able to survive the basic fight mechanics (Note that surviving the fight mechanics is also dependent on the capabilities of your healers - if they need more space then give it to them).

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In response to the "why" portion, there are a number of benefits that agility gives that stamina cannot contend with:

* Agility increases the critical strike percentage and thus gives us a greater chance of activating savage defense

* Agility increases our attack power and thus increases the amount of damage absorbed by savage defense

* Agility increases our chance to dodge (243.58 agility=1% dodge)

Essentially one stat improves our threat, mitigation, and avoidance which stamina cannot hold a candle to after you're able to survive the basic fight mechanics (Note that surviving the fight mechanics is also dependent on the capabilities of your healers - if they need more space then give it to them).

Stamina vs Agility

* Stamina increases health (more damage is soaked up)

* Stamina increases the healing received from Leader of the Pack (100 stamina = 1,000 HP, 1,000 HP = +40 healing from LotP)

* Stamina increases Vengeance cap (more Threat and DPS output, 10% of a tank with 175K HP is 17,500 AP gain, which adds to your 12K AP from Agility. 200K HP = 20K AP)

I'm a stamina stacker and felt it necessary to post the benefits of Stamina vs Agility. Ultimately I feel like a balance between Agility and Stamina is the answer. I trust gear, enchants can buff agility while gems and trinkets can buff Stamina or Agility (Depending on the fight, universal trinkets are 100% recommended for any tank characters.)

I mix between Stamina / Agility gems, reforge -> Dodge (priority being Expertise 20-26 > 5% hit > Mastery > Haste > Crit)

Problem with Crit is that you can have as MUCH crit as you want but you cannot change the fact that savage defense has a 50% chance that Savage Defense will occur whenever you crit. This is some what my problem with Savage defense as a reliable damage mitegation. I've actually stacked crit on a Chimaeron fight and watched how many crits actually gave me Savage defense, which is was little less than half proc'd Savage defense. (Experience is exceptable to change for higher damage absorption because its random)

My point is that this is why stacking Crit is null. It's sweet to have for Threat, a healthy amount is good but, it's not 50% + your crit chance to make SD proc. Pulverize + whatever crit you gain from gear + Leader of the Pack = enough to do your job. (Blasphemy! I know.)

Glyphs and Survivability.

Someone stated that there is only one useful glyphs for survivability. I would argue that Berserk is being overlooked, and arguably, Maul as well with this point below.

Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration is a survival glyph but also

Glyph of Berserk is a survival glyph because it places mangle on a 1(or .5) sec GCD which allows you to get in at most 4 Leader of the pack healing proc's within that 25 second window. If you have 175K HP, you'll receive 7000*4 within 25 seconds.

This does not include if you are keeping a consistant proc of 1 LotP per 6 seconds. (which you should be doing along with trying to manage SD)

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Problem with Crit is that you can have as MUCH crit as you want but you cannot change the fact that savage defense has a 50% chance that Savage Defense will occur whenever you crit. This is some what my problem with Savage defense as a reliable damage mitegation.
This is all true, but at the same time it's a good argument against stamina too. If stamina's main benefits outside of being able to suck up more damage is that it increases your SD shields, well, that's just as random as crit. Furthermore, as you get more crit SD becomes more statistically reliable and thus you will take less spiky damage; the difference is whether or not you want bigger shields less often (and thus more spike) or more shields that are smaller (and thus less spike). The latter is superior for most healing models to manage.

The benefit for crit/AP for agility is mostly for damage and a small amount for survival. The big benefit is the avoidance. similarly, the main benefit for stamina isn't the AP boost from vengeance (which is fraught with issues too), but the benefit you get in being able to take a lot of hits before you die. That being said, there is never a time when taking less damage is useless. there is a time when being able to take huge amounts of damage becomes pointless.

Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration is a survival glyph but also

Glyph of Berserk is a survival glyph because it places mangle on a 1(or .5) sec GCD which allows you to get in at most 4 Leader of the pack healing proc's within that 25 second window. If you have 175K HP, you'll receive 7000*4 within 25 seconds.

This does not include if you are keeping a consistant proc of 1 LotP per 6 seconds. (which you should be doing along with trying to manage SD)

This doesn't make any sense.

First of all, berserk takes the CD off of mangle. Bears still have a 1.5 second GCD (1 second for FF if you're pedantic).

Secondly, the most procs you can get for LotP no matter what is one every 6 seconds. Berserk doesn't help this at all; it doesn't increase the number of LotP procs you can get.

Third, bears are GCD-bound. Meaning that bears have something to do on every single GCD. They aren't normally rage-bound. Thus, they will get a proc of LotP every 6 seconds because they'll always be doing something - 4 actions - in that time. What those 4 actions ARE changes with berserk, but LotP doesn't care about that; it only cares about taking actions at all.

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Agreed with your first response Kalbear. A balance of Agi and Stamina I strongly suggest. Blizzard did good in allowing Druids to decide how we want to "game" with that.

Regarding the second part, Mangle - above all other abilities, should be your #1 DPS ability, moreover; Mangle should have a higher crit chance than any of your other abilities (I don't know why, honestly), Maybe it rivals Lacerate. Now if you say that's all poppy-cock and baulder-dash.

Then I present this scientific explanation, Mangle is your #1 Threat Generator and should always be on Cool Down. Now if you reduce that ability to a 1.5 sec GCD via Berserk and spam that instead of Maul, Lacerate, Swipe, Thrash, Pulverize, you have a greater chance to have one of those hits crit because you aren't using any other ability.

Mangle is the first and foremost important ability for Feral Druid threat and placing yourself in a position where that is really the only thing you spam, is not only great for threat and damage output, but also survivability.

Did that help at all?

To clarify as well, within those 25 seconds, you should refresh Lacerate once or twice, depending when you popped Berserk.

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You would still spam maul during berserk, they are independent of each other.

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You would still spam maul during berserk, they are independent of each other.

As of 4.2, I would be on the fence with spamming Maul. It depends on the tanks rage situation. Maul is now just a pure Rage dump, the threat / damage from it is crap even with Thrash and Lacerate on the target,

So yeah, if you want to dump rage because you just have too much of it. Talking about spamming Maul, not throwing it in when below 50 rage or so. Mangle > Maul in every way and if you're going to waste rage on Maul instead of Mangle, it's rather foolish. And by Waste, I mean literally throw away rage just to Maul instead of Mangle and Lacerate or Mangle and Swipe.

You shouldn't assume a Tank is popping Berserk with Full rage. It's ideal and was common before Maul costing 30 rage. But you'll see that Maul can quickly consume your rage if you let it.

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To clear up a couple things in the above posts:

Stamina is strictly inferior to Agility in terms of increasing AP and thus the size of your Savage Defense shields. This is after accounting for the fact that Stamina is cheaper in terms of itemization points. Specifically, your vengeance cap is Stamina + 0.1*Base_Health, not 0.1*Total_Health.

Mangle does not have a higher crit chance than your other abilities. There are plenty of reasons to spam it during Berserk, but higher Savage Defense proc rate is not one of them.

As far as Stamina vs. Agility goes, my view is that the best option is to gear in whatever way gives you the best chance of surviving the encounter. That sounds obvious, but most posts on the subject approach it too narrowly I feel. Considering that the highest level of raiding has been accomplished with bear tanks using both full Stamina stacking and full Agility stacking, the idea that a single correct answer exists is strange to me. My suggestion is to understand the pros and cons to both stats and work with your healers to find a mix that works best for your raid group.

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As of 4.2, I would be on the fence with spamming Maul. It depends on the tanks rage situation. Maul is now just a pure Rage dump, the threat / damage from it is crap even with Thrash and Lacerate on the target,

So yeah, if you want to dump rage because you just have too much of it. Talking about spamming Maul, not throwing it in when below 50 rage or so. Mangle > Maul in every way and if you're going to waste rage on Maul instead of Mangle, it's rather foolish. And by Waste, I mean literally throw away rage just to Maul instead of Mangle and Lacerate or Mangle and Swipe.

You shouldn't assume a Tank is popping Berserk with Full rage. It's ideal and was common before Maul costing 30 rage. But you'll see that Maul can quickly consume your rage if you let it.

Using Maul has always been a rage dump since the change to it in 4.0. Just because the damage from Maul is lower than Mangle shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not you use the ability. It also has a threat component to it, as well as the fact that it still -does- do damage. I cant remember the last time I've had rage issues tanking a raid boss, so it should always be used to CD when doing so. In 5mans, sure, you might have issues, but the discussion at hand isn't relating to 5mans, so that point is moot.

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So I'm looking at some opinions something I've been thinking about. I'm mainly looking at mitigation. Threat is not an issue for this simulation(not sure if that is the right wording).

For gemming for socket bonuses, that are anything but haste, reds and yellows having [iTEM]Polished Ember Topaz[/iTEM] and blues having [iTEM]Shifting Demonseye[/iTEM].

[iTEM]Delicate Inferno Ruby[/iTEM] gives the AP/Crit/Dodge but I'm wondering is the dodge from the [iTEM]Polished Ember Topaz[/iTEM] gem worth it with the diminishing returns.

I'm not asking for hand outs just at what point do people think you are getting more mitigation from the [iTEM]Delicate Inferno Ruby[/iTEM] then the [iTEM]Polished Ember Topaz[/iTEM]? When is the diminishing returns too much?

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As far as I'm aware agility is always better than dodge rating in terms of overall damage mitigation. You do get slightly more chance to dodge from dodge rating, but the benefit to AP and crit (and therefore Savage Defense shields and proc rate) outweigh that small difference, unless you are gearing for a specific boss ability that you need to dodge as much as possible.

Do note that despite having "diminishing returns" dodge actually gets better in terms of reducing damage intake as you get more of it.

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As for the Stamina vs Agility stacking argument, you should evaluate it on what you prefer your raid dynamic to be and what your raid leaders are looking for.

That being said, it is my firm belief that Stam stacking is required for 90% of heroic mode fights right now (6/7 actually so I guess it would be more like 85%). Every fight that you would be tanking as a bear has a large bleed, incredibly hard hitting mobs (alysrazor adds 100k instant enraged hits are fun) or consistent large spell damage hits that make stacking agi, while still viable, inferior to stamina stacking. And the fight that you are stacking agi (Baleroc) is only if you're OTing Decimation Blade hits, and it's not for the savage defense uptime, it's to squeeze out all of the dodge possible from your gear.

As we distance ourselves from the release of 4.2 and everyone gets the easily accessible gear, the pros for stamina stacking will wash away due to the inherent gain of HP and arguments for agi/stam and agi stacking will gain a lot of ground (especially as people hover around the 190-200k hp area).

While I'm posting, I'd also like to bounce my thoughts about savage defense off the people here. I'm sure that this is not a groundbreaking statement, but I think that SD is the worst mastery of the tanking classes. I believe that it pigeonholes bears into a permanent OTing/add role because of it's inferiority to block and massive death strike shields. The solution to this would be to revert one of the two changes that Blizzard made to SD from Wrath to Cata, either give us the chance to proc on periodic crits, or turn it up to 65% base. I prefer the former of these, as a more consistent shield would give us a more block-like mechanic, instead of the sudo-block that we have now. While i'm sure that the math on sims don't back up my feelings on the matter, and most bears have come to accept SD in all it's glorious inferiority, watching SD uptimes/absorbs compared to my warrior counterpart's blocks is pretty disheartening.

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I dont necessarily think that increasing the proc chance will add a lot to the table. Yes it will potentially give us more consistent mitigation, but its still the only "block" that doesnt scale at all with content. Every other tank has their block value determined by the intake of damage. Bears, on the other hand, will always have a 20-25k "block". So far Blizzards only compensation has been to increase our passive mitigation via NR and Thick Hide.

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That being said, it is my firm belief that Stam stacking is required for 90% of heroic mode fights right now (6/7 actually so I guess it would be more like 85%).

As we push into a new tier of heroic content it isn't surprising that EH could be a little low to start. The real question isn't whether we should stack agi or stamina for heroic content, it's how much EH do we actually need to survive heroic bosses?T Stacking agility is strictly superior once a sufficient level of EH has been acquired. Mindlessly stacking either stat due to gut instincts or without understanding why is something I would caution against.

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To clear up a couple things in the above posts:

Stamina is strictly inferior to Agility in terms of increasing AP and thus the size of your Savage Defense shields. This is after accounting for the fact that Stamina is cheaper in terms of itemization points. Specifically, your vengeance cap is Stamina + 0.1*Base_Health, not 0.1*Total_Health.

Mangle does not have a higher crit chance than your other abilities. There are plenty of reasons to spam it during Berserk, but higher Savage Defense proc rate is not one of them.

As far as Stamina vs. Agility goes, my view is that the best option is to gear in whatever way gives you the best chance of surviving the encounter. That sounds obvious, but most posts on the subject approach it too narrowly I feel. Considering that the highest level of raiding has been accomplished with bear tanks using both full Stamina stacking and full Agility stacking, the idea that a single correct answer exists is strange to me. My suggestion is to understand the pros and cons to both stats and work with your healers to find a mix that works best for your raid group.

Melthu.

The testing I did with Rawr, comparing full Stam (Gems/enchants) vs full Agi (Gems/enchants), it showed that Stamina offers about 12K Vengeance average while agility offered 10K Vengeance average. I'm not sure if this is the "up time" on vengeance or ??

The difference, however, agility has about 100-200 AP lead, so you're definitely right about that. The point I was trying to make earlier regarding Vengeance cap was, the more stamina you have the higher your cap is. - If this isn't correct, I'd like some clarity on it. I didn't mean to say "total" health.

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You're correct that Stamina increases your Vengeance cap more than Agility because, well, Agility doesn't affect your Vengeance cap at all. But remember that Vengeance is just AP, actually just potential AP. You gain 2 AP directly from each point of Agility, compared to a 1 point higher Vengeance cap for each point of Stamina.

The point I was making is that while Stamina does indirectly increase your AP by increasing your Vengeance cap, this effect is strictly inferior to the direct AP increase you get from an equivalent amount of Agility, so counting this as a benefit of Stamina over Agility is misleading.

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While I'm posting, I'd also like to bounce my thoughts about savage defense off the people here. I'm sure that this is not a groundbreaking statement, but I think that SD is the worst mastery of the tanking classes. I believe that it pigeonholes bears into a permanent OTing/add role because of it's inferiority to block and massive death strike shields. The solution to this would be to revert one of the two changes that Blizzard made to SD from Wrath to Cata, either give us the chance to proc on periodic crits, or turn it up to 65% base. I prefer the former of these, as a more consistent shield would give us a more block-like mechanic, instead of the sudo-block that we have now. While i'm sure that the math on sims don't back up my feelings on the matter, and most bears have come to accept SD in all it's glorious inferiority, watching SD uptimes/absorbs compared to my warrior counterpart's blocks is pretty disheartening.

I agree, that SD is the worst Mastery, but what we lose out in some fights, especially fast hitting block-able encounters we do make up with a couple things.

1) more armor, I have about 9-10% more damage mitigation from armor than our other tanks

2) higher avoidance via base dodge talents.. although its not the difference of WOTLK, and I ahve not compared the difference since the agility/parry changes for plate tanks since 4.2

3) more passive reduction on all attacks, 18% with NR, that is is 8% more than other tanks

4) arguable the best magic resistance in non-burts fights.. 24% passive reduction on fight with constant magic damage like Bethtilac, Rhyolith, and Ragnaros

What sucks about this is that it makes our damage mitigation all passive, and lowers the skill required to play it well compared to the other tanks. It was great when I was raid leading, because I could focus on the raid vs my survivability. Now that I am not leading anymore, my bear doesn't feel very interactive, although still very capable.

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SD may be weak compared to the other tank's mastery but, it's suppose to make you more interested in watching your rotation and focusing on the fight. Remembering prior to having Savage Defense, it made gearing easy. With it added (and after 4.0's changes), now we're being told to balance between Crit, Mastery, Agility, Attack Power, Dodge, etc. Take a moment and imagine if SD had a 100% proc on crit and a 6 second CD like LotP, It would make Mastery better but, it would potentially make mastery / SD worse. Blizzard compromised with Bear tanks also by allowing SD to stack whenever it procs instead of overriding itself.

Most people who play their class shouldn't have to focus on their character, they should have to focus on the encounter. You learn when to use your characters abilities as you progress through content, you have already done this, so it seems boring to you. A lot of tanks I've talked to liked T10 because it gave us another CD with our abilities and made the game more interactive during achievements and heroic encounters.

While we're on the topic, it's my opinion that a tanks survivability should be based on ability activation or their ability execution. Example: Swipe procs a 1% dodge increase for 3 seconds stacking 5 times or Mangle procs 5% Attack Power into an absorbing shield, stacking 5 times, Growl increases agility by 2% for 4 seconds.

WoW currently has this in reverse, every time you enrage you deal more damage. Every time you shield block, you do more damage.

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As for the Stamina vs Agility stacking argument, you should evaluate it on what you prefer your raid dynamic to be and what your raid leaders are looking for.

That being said, it is my firm belief that Stam stacking is required for 90% of heroic mode fights right now (6/7 actually so I guess it would be more like 85%). Every fight that you would be tanking as a bear has a large bleed, incredibly hard hitting mobs (alysrazor adds 100k instant enraged hits are fun) or consistent large spell damage hits that make stacking agi, while still viable, inferior to stamina stacking. And the fight that you are stacking agi (Baleroc) is only if you're OTing Decimation Blade hits, and it's not for the savage defense uptime, it's to squeeze out all of the dodge possible from your gear.

Truthfully, I haven't felt that way about the need for Stamina in heroic encounters, though I've been an Agility junky since the start of Cata raiding(and am not as progressed as quickly). I much prefer gemming Agi and then adding in a bit of Stam here and there as I think I need it through Flasks and Trinkets. The only fight where I thought that necessary was Beth'tilac in phase 2 (192k hits are awesome). I can see its merits, truly, but for me and my raid, it hasn't been an issue. Usually once I get a pattern down with CDs, my HP doesn't matter beyond the minimum threshold.

While I'm posting, I'd also like to bounce my thoughts about savage defense off the people here. I'm sure that this is not a groundbreaking statement, but I think that SD is the worst mastery of the tanking classes. I believe that it pigeonholes bears into a permanent OTing/add role because of it's inferiority to block and massive death strike shields. The solution to this would be to revert one of the two changes that Blizzard made to SD from Wrath to Cata, either give us the chance to proc on periodic crits, or turn it up to 65% base. I prefer the former of these, as a more consistent shield would give us a more block-like mechanic, instead of the sudo-block that we have now. While i'm sure that the math on sims don't back up my feelings on the matter, and most bears have come to accept SD in all it's glorious inferiority, watching SD uptimes/absorbs compared to my warrior counterpart's blocks is pretty disheartening.

I dislike our Mastery a lot. I really think they should just bite the bullet and make all blocks relatively uniform. Ours not scaling with incoming damage feels like a huge liability on any fight that increases boss damage. I'm not entirely sure changing it to be 65% is the answer, however, as that does completely trivialize older content. Putting it back on periodic crits, at the very least lacerate, as well as on Fury Swipes would be a potential answer. The only problem I see with that would then be SD munching since SD will overwrite a larger shield even when it's smaller.

I don't, however, see a disadvantage to making SD scale like block against incoming damage. Seems to me, the only reason it's being kept as a gear scalar is due to flavor, and for whatever reason, Blizzard thinks it scales just fine. The only hitch would then be what the heck our Mastery would do. Keeping Savage Defender as is would cause the same issues as a 65% base absorb, so changing it to increase the chance on a crit would seem to be the best conversion.

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The only problem I see with that would then be SD munching since SD will overwrite a larger shield even when it's smaller.

Why would this be a problem? Savage Defense is based on your AP, not the size of the hit that triggered it. A 1k Lacerate tick crit would give the same size shield as a 35k Mangle crit, assuming equal AP at the time of the crit. Unless you're talking about something else?

As far as Savage Defender, the reason it was implemented in the first place was to make bears care about stats other than stamina and dodge/agility. It's performed fairly admirably in that respect, as literally every stat on gear provides a defensive increase to some extent. Maybe not a whole lot for haste, but something like crit now offers a reasonable amount of defensive benefit. It's doubtful that the devs will change Savage Defense in a way that removes this effect.

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Why would this be a problem? Savage Defense is based on your AP, not the size of the hit that triggered it. A 1k Lacerate tick crit would give the same size shield as a 35k Mangle crit, assuming equal AP at the time of the crit. Unless you're talking about something else?
Perhaps I was unclear. Let's say you proc a full vengeance SD, then afterwards you dodge a few attacks, causing Vengeance to go down and SD to not be consumed(also assuming no other AoE effects to affect Vengance). If you proc SD again after that within the 10s duration, having not consumed the large shield, the next SD will be smaller due to the loss in Vengeance. That smaller shield overwrites the larger one.

It's very rare for that type of interaction to screw with mitigation, and the logs that I noticed it in (Sinestra), it happened to me twice, I think. It's what happened with DKs and DS before they changed it to be additive, though with Bears, it's not that much of a problem because of the frequency of our crits compared to a DS.

Hell, it might not even BE an issue with Lac ticks procing SD since it would be more frequent during vengeance decay.

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Personally the changes to druids are a bit indifferent at the moment. it’s like we have someone changing our stuff to sort PVP or dps issues and then someone comes along with totally different ideas to make changes to tanking and survivability.

Consider before previous patches with my character.

I had 50% crit over 51% dodge and armour mitigation in the 70% mark. We also had extra 10% stamina bonus.

Of course those days are gone and we have what we have.

Around 30% crit and dodge and 64% approx reduction and a lot less stamina than we could have had.

So druids have been stacking heavy stamina for last couple of patches and its worked fine and indeed help with Boss fights with savage defence as the vengeance ranks up.

But many boss fight mechanics now call for tank swapping or running about up and down a spider’s web for instance. In this time we have the chance to lose our vengeance stack and thus our AP goes back to normal and I’m back to my 6kish SD shield that may or may not be up when I engage the boss or target again.

Add to the mix now the removal of basic threat on most of our rotation attacks as bears. We can't always use berserk for every pull or when threat is sticky, we can’t always rely on misdirect or melee /healers not to over aggro in switches of fight mechanics.

Now one thing i have been doing is using my dps trinkets in trash pulls. This works and from gear that other druids have got from recent stuff in firelands the added agility and base damage they are kicking out we have less of a threat issue ( I normally switch to unheeded warning and fluid death ). The dps trinkets solve hit cap base damage and also add around 700 agility very quickly .

Agility as we all know is dodge, AP and crit etc and we don’t need to harp on about that , but the “get me out of jail†usage of the tank trinkets and the stamina is missed when things get sticky.

So I think until druids start to gear up ,we are going to have this stamina vs. agility question for a few months.

Personally i like having tonnes of stamina but the other tanks now are about the same, so we have to look at our next best friend which is agility. So I'm trying out changes , i have reforged to get hit and soft expertise cap to help with both threat but also if you miss, dodge or parry you don’t get your 50% chance at a SD proc.So whatever you got in the way of stamina or agility it won’t matter if you are just not landing hits enough times when it counts. So the caps solve 2 problems we have at THIS TIME(probably be different in a month or 3 of gear gains).

I've then gone for agility and with Pulverise up i got 40% crit or more. I also have more armour, AP and dodge all of which work before vengeance is even ticking up so pull wise and changing tank or mechanics mid fight I’m better off. Let’s face it the tactics needed in many fights now don’t allow for tank and spank for a good percentage of the fight.

So I’ve gemmed to match my sockets: Red=agility, blue=stamina (the odd hit gem) yellow =dodge+stamina. This way I get more out of my gear for my gold spent and also if I have to go cat mode when a tank switch occurs or it becomes a one tank and spank phase at the end of the fight I’m not as useless as I would be full of stamina

I say give back 50% dodge days

Regards

Wired2thebrink

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I dislike our Mastery a lot. I really think they should just bite the bullet and make all blocks relatively uniform. Ours not scaling with incoming damage feels like a huge liability on any fight that increases boss damage.

I suspect the buff to Natural Reaction was intended to address this discrepancy. It doesn't make our mastery satisfying but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out once Warriors and Paladins are consistently block capping.

The scaling issue is something they must be thinking about, though. Next time you tank Baleroc, read the tooltip on Blaze of Glory. ;)

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I've got a question regarding the add-tanking at Alysrazor. Since threat doesn't matter, what would be the best damage-rotation a bear could do ? and do you change items or reforge for this fight ? For example dodge -> crit or something like that ?

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I've got a question regarding the add-tanking at Alysrazor. Since threat doesn't matter, what would be the best damage-rotation a bear could do ? and do you change items or reforge for this fight ? For example dodge -> crit or something like that ?

I personallly, would do my standard rotation Faerie Fire(feral), Mangle, Lacerate x3, mangle and Maul OR mangle and Thrash. Maul as the rage dump and extra damage.

Keep in mind, Mangle is your strongest direct damage ability. Lacerate (via Berserk talent) damage proc's resets the CD on mangle thus you can hit more often with mangle. So if you're looking for pure damage, Mangle will do it but, don't neglect Lacerate x3 + Thrash + Maul.

Lacerate and Thrash amplify the damage of Maul, which isn't too terrible of damage. 4.2 made Maul suck compared to its days of glory but, currently it's still good damage if you have both bleeds active.

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I've got a question regarding the add-tanking at Alysrazor. Since threat doesn't matter, what would be the best damage-rotation a bear could do ? and do you change items or reforge for this fight ? For example dodge -> crit or something like that ?

Leaving out Pulverize is a mistake when it comes to Bear DPS. The 9% crit is no joke. You Maul when rage allows (which on Alysra Hatchlings is all the time - and its damage isn't small), but otherwise, it's the same priority system we would always use. Priority, not rotation.

Expertise is far and away the best stat for Bear DPS(next to weapon dps). The Hatchlings are level 87, so you will only need 24 expertise if you choose to reforge for more DPS.

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