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vykas

Shadow Priest PVE Guide (4.3 Updated)

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I have a bit of a suggestion/question. On this page alone, there are several posts about refreshing DoTs. One asking about a mastery proc, and an answer saying that it depends on the DPET of the spell in question. Another asking about ES buff and reapplication of DoTs.

Would it be useful to include some more in-depth information about DoT refreshing in the first post? I just read through it again, and there's no mention of it. I think even some basic statements like,

"It's good to refresh all DoTs after your first ES buff" or "Refresh DP with trinket procs, but not SWP" would help eliminate further questions on it. Or, even better, maybe we should include some information (or a link of where to find the information) on DoT behavior, such as:


  • When and why you would refresh in the first place
    When DoTs update with procs, buffs, etc, and when they don't
    How DPET makes a difference in your decision

I'd be happy to help compile some of this information if people think it's worth having in the first post.

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Apologies if this has already been asked (the search feature is currently down). Is it worth moving even if you don't have to during the GCD caused by instants such as DP and SWD? Given that you have an increased chance of proccing apparitions during movement, naturally.

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Apologies if this has already been asked (the search feature is currently down). Is it worth moving even if you don't have to during the GCD caused by instants such as DP and SWD? Given that you have an increased chance of proccing apparitions during movement, naturally.

Assume you recast DP every 20sec - You will move ~1sec. So you will have 1 sec of additional move every 20 sec. In that 1 sec interval you have 60% chance to proc SA with SWP tick. SWP ticks every 2 sec with very high haste. Chances that SWP tick will hit in this interval - 50% i think.

Dont want bother with maths - simcraft show ~50dps (0.14% total DPS) decrease if not moving at all (even on execution phase with often SWD). But simcraft is a perfect robot and moving every instant cast. In human case that movements will distract you from the fight and even with perfect execution give you 0.14% dps. Human cant execute it properly, we have to stop moving earlier to queue next spell (so that will be even less then 0.1%dps increase) and that little moving will disturb you with boss mechanics.

P.S. But moving on execution phase with double SWD is a good idea anyway =)

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Assume you recast DP every 20sec - You will move ~1sec. So you will have 1 sec of additional move every 20 sec. In that 1 sec interval you have 60% chance to proc SA with SWP tick. SWP ticks every 2 sec with very high haste. Chances that SWP tick will hit in this interval - 50% i think.

Dont want bother with maths - simcraft show ~50dps (0.14% total DPS) decrease if not moving at all (even on execution phase with often SWD). But simcraft is a perfect robot and moving every instant cast. In human case that movements will distract you from the fight and even with perfect execution give you 0.14% dps. Human cant execute it properly, we have to stop moving earlier to queue next spell (so that will be even less then 0.1%dps increase) and that little moving will disturb you with boss mechanics.

P.S. But moving on execution phase with double SWD is a good idea anyway =)

Aye, I figured it wouldn't be a great increase but on the initial dot application, DP refreshes, Shadowfiend casts, SWDs and potential multi dotting, I thought it might be worth discussing. I don't find it that hard (in fact, I find myself moving automatically when I'm hitting instants) to strafe in these instances.

Edit: Additionally any time you are required to use a full duration Dispersion it is probably worth moving around.

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Has anyone looked into the possibility of the Ragnaros trinket being better to use than the DMC:V?

I have tried to Sim it but I think I broke my Simcraft lol

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Has anyone looked into the possibility of the Ragnaros trinket being better to use than the DMC:V?
I simed it long ago and capacitor was so bad... In game capacitor doesnt get charges from dots. So even with damage buff it would be bad for dot specs.

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I think he is referring to the stealth buff on it. Tried it out this morning and it seems to do a lot more damage than usual on the training dummy. It probably sims higher than DMC:V atm.

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I was actually working on a rewrite for that reason. If you want to pass on your comments I'll gladly incorporate them

Well, I did a bit of research (between here and mmo-champion forums) and there are just some lingering questions that, if answered generally, might help intermediate players like myself make better choices. Whatever gets added to the first post doesn't need to be exhaustive, I don't think. But just enough so that players can make educated choices in those complex rotation moments.

For instance, I understood it that when a trinket procs, your DoT spellpower is automatically updated and would revert once the proc wore off. (As in, not what Affliction warlocks did with that trinket from Pit of Saron in WotLK). However many folks seem to be advocating refreshing DoTs once trinkets proc, which would insinuate that there is some value in putting up buffed DoTs. Also, many folks are saying to refresh all DoTs after your first ES proc. Does ES behave differently than trinket procs? Does that extra 10% last the full duration of DoTs even if it falls off before the DoT runs out? Things like this would be very helpful, I think.

Is there a place with general DoT behavior information out there? I poked around on WoW Wiki but couldn't find anything. I could dummy test in-game, but I'm unsure if certain trinkets behave differently than others regarding DoTs.

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Dots behave exactly the opposite, the dot takes all modifiers at the moment cast completes, i.e. even if you have 0.1 seconds left of the trinket proc, casting the dot before it expires will make it last buffed the whole duration. Same with ES, unless you recast it, it will not take or lose the ES damage buff. To get the most out of strong procs, you have to refresh the dots once proc is up, then again when the proc fades. Mastery procs differ in that in order to get their benefit you have to cast MB with orb when trinket procs, then recast dots, then when the trinket buff is about to expire cast MB with orb again, and when the buffed ES is about to expire, refresh dots.

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Slightly more specifically: dots are updated by your own buffs on a per cast basis and by boss debuffs on a per tick basis.

The entire duration is modified by the stats you had when you cast it and each individual tick is modified by the debuffs the boss has when that tick lands.

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Slightly more specifically: dots are updated by your own buffs on a per cast basis and by boss debuffs on a per tick basis.

The entire duration is modified by the stats you had when you cast it and each individual tick is modified by the debuffs the boss has when that tick lands.

I think that's the most succinctly I've heard it put. Well said.

So specifically so SW:P, we're in a situation similar to Marksmanship hunters in Wrath, where they tried to put a highly-buffed Serpent Sting on the boss and roll it for the whole fight. Based on what you said above, the same is true for shadow priests now?

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I think that's the most succinctly I've heard it put. Well said.

So specifically so SW:P, we're in a situation similar to Marksmanship hunters in Wrath, where they tried to put a highly-buffed Serpent Sting on the boss and roll it for the whole fight. Based on what you said above, the same is true for shadow priests now?

Every time your MF resets the SW:P cool down it counts as being recast. So you can't keep a buffed SW:P rolling unless you don't MF that target, and even then only for the duration of SW:P, not an extended duration.

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Has anyone figured out the optimal rotation for Alysrazor flying in the air? After doing it on heroic multiple times I have a system that delivers a pretty solid amount of damage, but always looking to Min/Max. Along with the rotation/priority would be stats (i.e. Reforge to Mastery, since you go below the GCD on your MF anyways).

I refresh Dots, only MB to refresh emp shadows, and other than that spam mindflay. I use Dark Evangalism before each meteor, then save it until she's down on the ground. It then comes up before each meteor and is usable again.

Also re: trinkets. DMC:Volcano vs Moonwell Chalice (Using the use as she hits the ground and refreshing emp shadows and DoTs). And then the remainder of those 2 vs Necromantic Focus.

I was using DMC:Volcano and Necromantic focus until now, figured I'd test out Chalice next time I get the chance.

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You definitely want to refresh DoTs faster than their expiration time, because of how fast you're ramping up the haste buff, but I'm not sure exactly how frequent is optimal. Some napkin math says that if you gain a buff that even increases your damage by 30%, you should refresh immediately. Of course, that doesn't include the expectation that future damage might increase even more (which it clearly does in this case).

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I am in doubt about the trinket situation......according to the Guide the BiS Items should be the Necromantic Focus (HC) and DC:V but I found some Infos in the web and according to them the raggi trinket should be better in hc and nhc than the Necromantic Focus and DC:V but I am not find a calculation for it in Simcraft and I would fall down under the 31.25% Haste plateau with this

Ttrinket without getting DI.

Could anybody help me?

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Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor was buffed about 2 weeks ago, the guide hasn't been reflected to update it. VPLC and Necromatic Focus are BiS.

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VPLC was buffed. It only stacks to 5 now before discharging. I have the VPLC, DMCV, NF and right now i'm using the VPLC over NF and stuck with DMCV. It's my understanding that DMCV > normal NF & that Heroic NF > DMCV. So until i get the Heroic NF i'll stick with the DMCV over normal NF.

If i'm wrong please let me know.

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VPLC was buffed. It only stacks to 5 now before discharging. I have the VPLC, DMCV, NF and right now i'm using the VPLC over NF and stuck with DMCV. It's my understanding that DMCV > normal NF & that Heroic NF > DMCV. So until i get the Heroic NF i'll stick with the DMCV over normal NF.

If i'm wrong please let me know.

Don't use the normal VPLC if you have NF, the static Mastery is a big buff to your DPS.

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Don't use the normal VPLC if you have NF, the static Mastery is a big buff to your DPS.

A valid point, but defintly worth looking at your stat weightings on this scenario and your personal preference. I would rather take VPLC and NF over NF/DMCV due to to intellect/spell power bonus which effects all of our spells consistantly.

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The more I think about it using NF & VPLC probably makes more sense. The static int coupled with the mastery bonus I'm sure out does the int proc from DMCV. Leaves less opportunity to under utilize a massive proc. I absolutely hate having to refresh a VT or DP for the volcano proc. The static use of the int from either trinket will net out about equal to the int proc but leaves less margin for error on the proc management.

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so what is a good time to use Mind Spike? I see that you didnt mention it in the guide. Is mind spiking only good for pvp? im always having problem with using mind spike due to its complex mechanism with mind blast. what it a good circumstance to use it and how? please help me out. Thanks

It's always good when there're mobs that have low life, need to die quickly and aren't enough for mind sear (< 3 mobs). Examples are Beth'tilac 10 man, when the spiders come down from the web. Just use 3x MS -> MB -> MS until MB CD is ready -> MB etc. SWD on mobs <25% and be aware it uses more mana than the normal rotation.

It will be interesting to see if there will be changes to that with 4p t13, since we get MANY orbs during Shadow Fiend. But thats a thing for future testing.

Maybe there should be a small note in the guide for Mind Spike.

For the trinkets I simmed different combinations and got:

VPLC nh/NF hc > DMCV/NF hc > VPLC nh/DMCV

and use my trinkets like that.

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Read Althor's post here: http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t123944-simulationcraft_priests_cataclysm_edition/p3/#post2011898

Although obvious caveats of it being a simulation, based on PTR, etc. apply.

I agree that its probably not a big DPS increase to get 4pc t13, but I'm still excited to get it, the instant Shadow Orbs hopefully takes away the RNG on the opener. Also the Shadow Word: Death change is going to be nice because for once I can actually use my execute and not have to worry about insta gibbing myself on fights like Chimearon/Baleroc/or any heavy AOE phases.

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The more I think about it using NF & VPLC probably makes more sense. The static int coupled with the mastery bonus I'm sure out does the int proc from DMCV. Leaves less opportunity to under utilize a massive proc. I absolutely hate having to refresh a VT or DP for the volcano proc. The static use of the int from either trinket will net out about equal to the int proc but leaves less margin for error on the proc management.

Keep in mind that, unless I'm mistaken, you should probably be refreshing dots on power torrent procs as well and I know that, for me at least, power torrent and DMCV procs more often than not proc right on top of one another.

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I searched and found nothing, but had an interesting question:

Is there a soft-cap for Haste that at that point and before you reach the next level, mastery becomes better? We're having a debate and I'd like to hear from a reliable source.

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