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Matron Heartless

Unholy DPS | My Friend of Misery [4.3.0]

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This thread is for RAID/END-GAME discussion/theorycraft ONLY. If you have a question regarding 5 mans, gear choices, or how much of a particular stat you need - USE THE SIMPLE QUESTIONS THREAD.

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[Vessel of Acceleration] (Heroic) is not BiS for Unholys because of the low crit rate and the low stat value for crit overall. Take [Crushing Weight] instead.

See these logs: overall uptime 78%, but the uptime with 5 stacks is even lower.

However, I have made some math for the BiS Trinkets for Unholy, you can see it here: http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9152/unholytrinketsheroic.jpg (The 60% VoA uptime doesn't mean only 60% uptime overall, it means 60% overall uptime of the possible 460 crit rating. / 9% AoK uptime because you could not use it with other proccs at the beginning.)

I have ignored the RNG factor for HoR and Crushing Weight but it shouldn't make any difference.

Also you should take the Shannox Heroic Belt [uncrushable Belt of Fury] (Mastery to Haste reforged) as Best in Slot Belt. The Avenger of Hyjal Heroic Belt doesn't exist and according to my sim results it should be better as the Avenger Normal Belt (~100+/- DPS).

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Well, as someone relatively new to the Unholy tree (coming from Frost), I have a question about priority. At the beginning of most fights, say Rag XD, I usually toot my horn, pop army pre-pull, and then go into the priority system. This, of course, gives me a great deal of runic power on pull. I have been in a quandary as to whether to prioritize Dark Transformation or Gargoyle in this situation. I have been exploring both and feel that popping Unholy Frenzy, then getting Dark Transformation up A.S.A.P., then getting Gargoyle out before Unholy Frenzy wears off seems to be both the highest dps and the most intuitive system. Is this what others have seen? Keep in mind this only applies to the opening "rotation".

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Well, as someone relatively new to the Unholy tree (coming from Frost), I have a question about priority. At the beginning of most fights, say Rag XD, I usually toot my horn, pop army pre-pull, and then go into the priority system. This, of course, gives me a great deal of runic power on pull. I have been in a quandary as to whether to prioritize Dark Transformation or Gargoyle in this situation. I have been exploring both and feel that popping Unholy Frenzy, then getting Dark Transformation up A.S.A.P., then getting Gargoyle out before Unholy Frenzy wears off seems to be both the highest dps and the most intuitive system. Is this what others have seen? Keep in mind this only applies to the opening "rotation".

My inclination (mind you I don't have math to back this up) is that you would build as much RP before pull as possible (using the 2 piece it's possible to cap pre fight). Unload that RP and go into priority.

The reason for this is that I would want to pop DT as fast as I can so the prepot is still up and I can pop Unholy Frenzy with DT without losing uptime on Unholy Frenzy.

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Would be better to use the RP on critters before the pull so that you don't let runes rot during the actual fight. Easier said than done given critter population in most instances and the duration of Shadow Infusion, but still.

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Would be better to use the RP on critters before the pull so that you don't let runes rot during the actual fight. Easier said than done given critter population in most instances and the duration of Shadow Infusion, but still.

Actually, you could probably use the RP on your ghoul pre-fight with the glyph that refunds RP when you heal your ghoul in order to start the fight with a ready to use DT.

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My inclination (mind you I don't have math to back this up) is that you would build as much RP before pull as possible (using the 2 piece it's possible to cap pre fight). Unload that RP and go into priority.

The reason for this is that I would want to pop DT as fast as I can so the prepot is still up and I can pop Unholy Frenzy with DT without losing uptime on Unholy Frenzy.

I totally agree that this priority system seems good. However, while I do pool some RP before each pull using my two set, I find that popping army combined with my normal rotation (DnD, 2xfestering, etc) will give me max rp while also getting my runes on cd, something I think is equally important. Then again, I guess it doesn't take very long to unload rp. I will try it next raid.

P.S. I hate Rag phase 2. :*(

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Why H Apparatus Khaz'goroth is worst than H Vessel of Acceleration if it gives haste instead of crit? Remember that Apparatus now gives 506 haste per stack. The reason is your low active time, 15 seconds?

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I totally agree that this priority system seems good. However, while I do pool some RP before each pull using my two set, I find that popping army combined with my normal rotation (DnD, 2xfestering, etc) will give me max rp while also getting my runes on cd, something I think is equally important. Then again, I guess it doesn't take very long to unload rp. I will try it next raid.

P.S. I hate Rag phase 2. :*(

Well, what I'm suggesting is pool RP and then burn it on the ghoul pre-pull to build stacks and start the fight with a fully charged DT. You could probably begin pooling again if you like but really the idea is just to get DT at the start so it lines up with potion, and unholy frenzy best, without sacrificing up time on Unholy frenzy or garg.

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Crit seems to be considered so worthless for Unholy that the main post did not even include a section for it. I'm a sceptic by nature, so I made a small calculation, expecting to find crit just as worthless as assumed, but the result was somewhat surprising.

I'm including the calculation here for public scrutiny (it's not exactly high level math), feel free to skip to the bottom for the results and conclusion.

I'm doing these calculations on my own DK's numbers and leave a little breathing room, I will later talk a bit about the possible error.

My goal is to compare crit to mastery, first I will calculate the value of mastery, for which I need my shadow damage.

These are the numbers I usually get on most boss encounters (I am generously rounding up here).

28% SS

15% DC + UB

6% BP

About half of the SS damage is shadow, so about 35% of my damage is shadow, however that is already increased by my mastery (35%) and we need the "unincreased" number:

35%/1.35 ~ 26%

So, one point of mastery increases my damage by 2.5% of 26%, which is ~0.65%

All of my damage is affected by crit, the diseases can crit, my pets get my crit and anything that cannot crit (SS shadow part, UB) is based on damage that can crit and all crit is 200% (ignoring meta).

So, we apply the same treatment, my raid buffed crit against a boss is ~8%, so 1% crit increases 100/1.08 = 92.6% of my damage by 1%, which is 0.926%

Result in one sentence: Mastery increases my damage by 0.65/0.926 ~ 70% of the increase I get from crit.

Now, the possible error:

I did not include DnD and probably missed other small things. I intentionally chose the numbers for mastery generous and I did not include the crit meta gem, so the real numbers should (if at all) barely be on the mastery favoring side. I also checked some logs from other DKs (Firelands raid bosses), they have a higher percentage of shadow damage, likely since they have more mastery than I do, but overall the numbers I used are not too far off.

So, how can that be? Crit should be significantly worse than Mastery, yet my results show the exact opposite. There are many variables at play here, including my mentioned mistakes, others are crit rating obviously (the more you have, the lower the benefit), play style, skill (or lack thereof on my part), but we're talking about a significant difference here, small variable changes in a rather stable environment would not account for such a huge discrepancy.

I guess that the current value of crit has been established using simulators (which I do not use), so logic would dictate that I went wrong somewhere, I just can't figure out where. Maybe some of you guys could take a look at this, perhaps you can see what I could not.

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You're not being generous at all, much more than 15% of your damage is DC+UB, it's more around 20-21%. DnD is around 5% of your damage. With enough Mastery, the Shadow Portion of your SS is roughly tied with DC in damage at around 20%. So really 1 point of Mastery increases your DPS by 2.5% of 45%, which is 1.125%, double your calcuation.

Also your pet does not scale with crit and it hasn't scaled with crit since 4.0.6

For reference, I took this parse: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

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I took my own numbers since I know my own mastery and can put it in context, you can't just take the final number and add mastery, mastery doesn't scale with itself. Also, I included my pet, since I assumed it would scale with crit like hunter pets do - I will take your word that it does not - so that inflated my numbers a bit.

So, I have no idea how much mastery that DK has, but let's assume it's 40% increased shadow damage (he looks well geared), then that means his shadow damage without mastery would be 45/1.4 ~32%, putting mastery at 0.8%. In order to put crit that low, you'd need to have 25% crit, something no unholy DK has. Even if he has less mastery, let's say 30%, which I would consider low, you end up at 34.6% shadow damage or 0.865%.

The pet not scaling with crit does put quite a dent on it's value, but to me the stats still seem too evenly matched, at best, to explain the "disdain" for crit rating.

Maybe a short explanation why I do the "without mastery" thing: If you do 100 shadow damage and you already have 50% increase from mastery, then the result is 150 damage, if you put another 2.5% on that, then that is not 150 * 1.025 (102.5% of 150), it's 100 * 1.525 (152.5% of 100), which is less.

Edit: You forgot BP, putting his shadow damage at ~52%, which makes mastery a lot more "equal". I also checked my own numbers and subtracted the pet and the numbers matched pretty well. So far it looks like crit rating and mastery are similar in value.

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You're not being generous at all, much more than 15% of your damage is DC+UB, it's more around 20-21%. DnD is around 5% of your damage. With enough Mastery, the Shadow Portion of your SS is roughly tied with DC in damage at around 20%. So really 1 point of Mastery increases your DPS by 2.5% of 45%, which is 1.125%, double your calcuation.

Also your pet does not scale with crit and it hasn't scaled with crit since 4.0.6

For reference, I took this parse: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Aftert that you will end up at a crit value around 0.74 (assuming the ghoul at around 20% of the total damage).

Mastery affects (numbers from the log) a total of 53.5%

SS Shadowpart ~ 20% in the log

DC ~20%

BP ~7%

UP ~5%

DnD ~1.5%

Drsheya @ Nazjatar - Spiel - World of Warcraft

Mastery at 15 that means an increase of 37.5%

53.5% Shadowdamage / 1.375 Shadowmultiplier = x % Shadowdamage / 1 Shadowmultiplier

x% Shadowdamage = ~ 38.9%

without Mastery this means 38.9% Shadowdamage

so 1 Mastery would increase this 38.9% by 2.5% ending up in an increase of 0.97% DPS/Mastery.

Comparing the Ratings

179.28 Masteryrating for 1 Point of Mastery and the same amount of Critrating for 1% Crit.

This ends up showing that Mastery is superior to Crit. (0.97 > 0.74)

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You added a 10 somewhere, those numbers add up to 53.5%, resulting in roughly ~0.97% for mastery.

Now, that damage does not include the pet, so you can't compare that to a number you derived from calculating with a pet (your crit number). You are right in that mastery does seem to be better, but not by quite that much, if we assume some raid buffed crit of 10% then that's ~0.91% for crit. Worse than mastery, but not exactly worthless.

Anyway, my "question", if you will, has been answered, the defining mistake was obviously counting crit for pets.

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Well, what I'm suggesting is pool RP and then burn it on the ghoul pre-pull to build stacks and start the fight with a fully charged DT. You could probably begin pooling again if you like but really the idea is just to get DT at the start so it lines up with potion, and unholy frenzy best, without sacrificing up time on Unholy frenzy or garg.

I recently tried start encounter with DT up, but i got 3 stacks at max of Shadow Infusion. I put glyph that should give me back some RP, but is'nt working. Im getting RP before start encounter using Horn of Winter and DnD, this is right or im doing anything wrong?

Ps.: please anyone could clarify my other post in this thread about trinkets?

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I recently tried start encounter with DT up, but i got 3 stacks at max of Shadow Infusion. I put glyph that should give me back some RP, but is'nt working. Im getting RP before start encounter using Horn of Winter and DnD, this is right or im doing anything wrong?

Ps.: please anyone could clarify my other post in this thread about trinkets?

At the time I posted that I didn't realize the glyph was broken. It's not working right now. My advice: Stagger your death coils while continuing to build runic power. Just make sure the Buff doesn't fall off your ghoul.

If you can save up some RP on trash. Also, certain fights might have areas that let you build RP before hand with AMS.

I haven't tried it yet, but I know going behind Rag causes you to take damage: my feeling is you can probably soak that damage for a quick RP cap.

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I recently tried start encounter with DT up, but i got 3 stacks at max of Shadow Infusion. I put glyph that should give me back some RP, but is'nt working. Im getting RP before start encounter using Horn of Winter and DnD, this is right or im doing anything wrong?

Ps.: please anyone could clarify my other post in this thread about trinkets?

The glyph works but overhealing no longer refunds rp it seems. Try summoning your pet without gear on then reequipped your gear and heal it up.

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Not sure if anyone else has been noticing this, but the last few days I seem to have seen an increase in Sudden Doom procs, to the point where Death Coil is taking my No1 Spot on damage done on fights, above the split SS components.

Not sure if this is just me having a lucky streak, but it does seem to be the case.

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Here are a few tips from my experience. I didn't include anything that was already stated in the main article or other comments.

Anti-Magic Zone:

AMZ is the best utility an Unholy DK brings to a raid, and is alone a good enough reason not spec Frost. When used correctly, this will be your raid's strongest defensive CD. Do not be fooled by the tooltip to think it will only absorb the stated amount of damage. In reality, it will first absorb 75% of the next magical attack, and only THEN, if the amount absorbed exceeded the stated amount, it will vanish. Therefore, it works best when soaking single high-dmg attacks, and fails miserably soaking multiple low-dmg attacks. For example, total damage absorbed by an AMZ covering 25 raid members can easily exceed 1,000,000 (vs Majordomo's Flame Scythe, Rhyolith's Concussive Stomp). Fortunately, there are many useful chances to use it in Firelands, when timed correctly. Some were already mentioned, and others will be mentioned below. Precise timing is an issue when other low dmg magic attacks risk breaking the AMZ before the big dmg hits. Note also that dmg taken from a shaman's "Spirit Link Totem" is absorbed by the AMZ and can break it, and so the two should not be used together. Personally, i keep Blood Tap ready for fights requiring precise timing for AMZ. It's worth it. Also, try to use AMS separately from AMZ, for maximum total dmg reduction.

Lord Rhyolith:

- It is impossible to jump in order to avoid Concussive Stomp. Random resists are most likely the cause for this misconception.

- AMS is best used on every other stomp.

- Use AMZ on stomps when AMS is on CD, but not too close to phase 2.

- In phase 2, especially on HC, have your raid stack and cast AMZ to soak one of the Stomps. Other magic attacks can break AMZ here, cast it just before the Stomp cast finishes.

- in phase 2, use AMZ, AMS and IBF on separate Stomps, for maximum dmg reduction.

Alysrazor:

- in Vortex phase, if you are confident in your abilities, use AMS and touch a tornado to start the nuke phase with full RP.

- use AMZ to soak the strong Full Power ability at the end of the grounded phase. As soon as the Alysrazor reaches 100 energy, pop AMZ – precise timing is needed.

- use Unholy Frenzy on one of the tanks. Tank dmg done will increase far more than yours ever will, due to the 1000% buff. Best time to cast would be when tank has full Vengence, probably around 20 secs after the Hatchlings spawn. Another possible target for your UF is a flying melee/hunter.

- if you wiped, have the raid stack before the pull and pop AMZ right at the start, before the knockback, to negate some incoming dmg.

- use your ghoul's Gnaw, or (if tranformed) Leap for extra interupts, when needed.

Majordomo Staghelm:

- (possibly inaccurate and will be tested further. see following comment) Manually bring your ghoul to the front of the boss to share Flame Scythe dmg if your healers are having problems. On HC, if your tank is attempting to soak a Scythe alone and is having trouble, send your ghoul to help him reduce the damage by half, and re-summon it.

Ragnaros:

- Keep an eye on your ghoul, and make sure he always attacks the boss from behind. Movement in transition phases can result in him attacking from the front.

- In phase 2, use AMS just before Molten Seeds are cast, their initial dmg is much more dangerous than the dmg they cause when they burst.

- in transition phases, use your ghoul's Gnaw ability to stun your target. This ability is often overlooked and is extremely helpful here. If you're having trouble using it, try disabling your ghoul Claw auto-cast when the transition phase begins, and enabling it back after a successful Gnaw. Useful macro commands:

/petautocasttoggle claw

/petautocaston claw

/petautocastoff claw

- aim to stack 5 Shadow Infusion charges on your ghoul just before a transition phase, and transform it right before your assigned add becomes active. The extra burst damage, longer Gnaw duration, and Leap being turned into a charge+stun ability are all extremely beneficial.

- In the last phase, there are no more magical attacks for AMS to soak. Feel free to step into the lava or into Engulfing Flames to charge up on RP.

- In the last phase, while kiting a Meteor, remember that your diseases are still ticking and your ghoul is still swinging. This means that roughly a third of your dmg is still being dealt while kiting, making you a preferred kiter in your group. Hold on as long as you can, don’t let dps meters get the better of you.

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Majordomo Staghelm:

- Manually bring your ghoul to the front of the boss to share Flame Scythe dmg if your healers are having problems. On HC, if your tank is attempting to soak a Scythe alone and is having trouble, send your ghoul to help him reduce the damage by half, and re-summon it.

Our guild tested this a while back. Ghouls and other pets do take damage from the Scythe, but pets taking damage doesn't reduce the Scythe damage to players. We had at least 6 pets stacking in the raid for first Scythe and then sent them away for the second one. I think the damage we got was about 90k per person for both of them and if pets would've mattered, the second one should've been at least 110k per person.

Of course it's still possible that replacing players with pets in front of the boss works so that you can have e.g. 4 melees behind the boss and 4 pets in front of him and rest of the raid takes same damage than they would if all players were in front of him.

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hand of ragnoros can be stealed with dark sim on ragnaros.

blazing heat from scions can be immuned if u use ams before the 3 sec timer runs out

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Shannox: If an Immolation Trap is beside melee, you can use discretion to AMS + run over the trap for some RP (either if Hurl Spear just passed or if you are standing too far for the spear to do damage to you anyway.

Shannox is Taunt-immune, so spamming Dark Command/Death Grip can give you a higher proc rate on Rune of the Fallen Crusader

Lord Rhyolith: The legs are also Taunt-immune so you can get more RotFC uptime.

Lord Rhyolith: If a Spark of Rhyolith is ever near the feet, put up diseases on the Spark and pestilence them on to the feet, the reasoning is because the disease damage is amplified from the Spark's stacks.

Beth'tilac (H): When a Cinderweb Drone fixates someone, you can get off a Taunt/DG (although I would save DG to pull down a Spinner) to prolong your RotFC stacks (very minimal, but it's still there)

Ragnaros: Taunt will push the meteor back, so if your ranged doesn't push it back in time you can use Dark Command in order to save Runes/RP to damage Rag.

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While taunt spam will net you more 3% heals from FC, the Str buff is on a ICD, so I doubt you're gaining anything with the taunts.

How much does a stolen Hand of Ragnaros deal?

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