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Mists of Pandaria: All Specs

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Does anyone have the maths on weather [Glyph of Illumination] (1% mana return on Holy Shock critical) is going to be worth it over the 10% nerf Holy Insight receives from it?

I mathed out the regen comparison for various stats. For healers prioritizing Spirit (everyone?) the glyph appears to have advantages in extremely limited situations which I'm not even sure we'll see. The real test would be against output focused builds prioritizing Crit over Spirit. I will not attempt to model potential outputs for comparison.

Math and graphs are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AovDZYcya2YudG84MlIyVkVIMTd6ZzBUcllXNzkxMUE#gid=1

My post discussing MoP regen with & without the glyph, including MoP mana basics, is here: MoP Mana Regen: Theorycrafting Paladins’ Options | Leveling Holy

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Any plans to add math for the use of Sanctified Wrath with relation to the glyph? Also, I've noticed that the glyph is giving double-procs at times - have you experienced this? (obviously it's probably not worth running numbers on an obvious bug, just curious if you have experienced double procs)

[E] Forgot to say thanks for the math, been wanting to tackle it myself but haven't managed to find the time. Glad you took care of it =)

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I would model Sanctified Wrath by increasing the Shocks per minute expected during a fight, hopefully with reference to logs. We could try to estimate the increase by taking our existing Shock/min, adding half that multiplied by the number of times we use Avenging Wrath in a fight (or a particular fight), and then adding that into the total expected during a given fight duration (Shock/min * minutes of fight length).

So a 6min fight at 8 Shock/min = 48 Shocks already. Two uses of Avenging Wrath gives us 4 additional Shocks each, or 8 total. Our new total of 56 Shocks divided into the 6 minute fight = 9.33 Shock/min. Cross reference your stats against the line for 9 Shock/min in the second tab of that spreadsheet, or graph a line for 9.33 in your own copy, to see where you end up.

I believe I'm on the low side of Shock/min by estimating 8 right now. It is entirely possible mana will be so tight that we'll be watching the Shock cooldown like hawks, especially if we choose to use the glyph.

Something I haven't seen tested: How does Sanctified Wrath work with 4pc Tier 14? Does Holy Shock end up with a 2.5s or 2s cooldown?

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Is there any math now that 5.0.4 is live on weather Sacred Shield or Eternal Flame is the higher hps gain? I would have though Sacred Shield, but not so sure.

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Sacred Shield is a new spell and Eternal Flame replaces WoG. If you LoD a lot, rather than EF/WoG, then you get zero benefit from EF. If you keep SS up on the tank, then you pretty much always benefit.

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Sacred Shield is a new spell and Eternal Flame replaces WoG. If you LoD a lot, rather than EF/WoG, then you get zero benefit from EF. If you keep SS up on the tank, then you pretty much always benefit.

Eternal Flame will be better than Sacred Shield since Eternal Flame works as "hot" what will heal nearby players for total of 30 seconds. Sacred Shield should only be taken by protection paladin :)

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I'm pretty sure Eternal Flame doesn't heal nearby players, only the one you place the EF on?

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"Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to place a protective Holy flame on a friendly target, which heals them for 4724 to 5262 (+ 49% of SpellPower) and an additional 458 (+ 5.85% of SpellPower) every 3 sec for 30 sec. Healing increased per charge of Holy Power."

I don't see any AoE here?

Sacred Shield should be more or less mandatory for one Holy Paladin in a raid regardless of HpS, no amount of healing makes up for Absorb on a tank.

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I did some quick number crunching on this. The initial healing of EF and WoG are more or less similar. Assuming 10k Spellpower:

EF: ~5538+(49%*10000) = 10438 per point of Holy Power

WoG: ~5078+(49%*10000) = 9978 per point of Holy Power

Comparing the value of the 10 HoT ticks from EE vs. 5 Sacred Shield absorption. Keeping SP at 10k:

EE HoT: ~508+(5.85%*SP)*10 = 6358

SS Abs: 30+(17%*SP)*5 = 8650 (That is 1730 per absorption shield.)

So in my opinion, it isnt really a clear choice. A 3 Holy Power Eternal Flame will heal 50388 vs. A 3 Holy Power Word of GLory + Sacred Shield heal/absorb 38584.

~12k healing difference.

Another matter which comes into play is Mastery -> I assume we do not get Illuminated healing for the Eternal Flame HoT Ticks. And will Sacred Shield stack/cancel/add Illuminated healing?

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Actually SS absorbs 30+(1,17*SP)*5 = 58650

While the EE HoT is (458+(0,0585*SP))*1,25*10 = 13040 making it 39120 at 3 HP

Additionally EE and the EE-HoT benefit from Mastery and Crit. SS obviously doesn't.

SS on the other hand is free and damage not taken is generally preferable to damage healed.

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I don't find this in any of our spell effects: Word of Glory has lost the old Last Word effect? So no more increased crit chance on low health targets?

Regardless, I'd still rather spend Holy Power on a spot heal instead of mana on a Flash of Light.

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The only passive crit in the spec now is from Holy Shock, which is due to the IoL mechanics being dependent upon crit.

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First thing I tried to do with Sacred Shield was macro it to another button, since we'd want it to be up all the time, but I'm not having any luck getting it to work, even in macros that work fine with, say, Divine Protection instead. If you've gotten Sacred Shield to work fine in a macro can you post it? Humble apologies if I'm missing something obvious.

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There are a few things to consider in the debate of Eternal Flame and Sacred Shield.

First of all is the number of ticks in relation to haste. Currently at level 85 you gain a 13th tick at 24.97% haste, which most of us will be at with the 5% Spell Haste buff.

Realistically you wouldn't want to math it out with doing 10 ticks, as for the majority of raiders it would not be doing 10 ticks. You gain 11 ticks just by having Seal of Insight on.

The second is that you also have to compare the Eternal Flame with using both Sacred Shield and Light of Dawn. Just doing Word of Glory is not good enough. In Dragon Soul we have quite a lot of AoE damage and could be more beneficial to have spent that 3 Holy Power on a LoD whilst also being able to SS somebody.

Finally depending on how often X takes damage, there is a chance of the HoT tick being wasted. It is quite possible for them to be on 100% health when it ticks. With SS however you have a 6 second window where any damage taken during it will count towards the absorb. Putting it on the tank you can pretty safely bet none of it will get wasted.

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There are a few things to consider in the debate of Eternal Flame and Sacred Shield.

First of all is the number of ticks in relation to haste. Currently at level 85 you gain a 13th tick at 24.97% haste, which most of us will be at with the 5% Spell Haste buff.

Is this for EF or SS? SS does scale with haste, being that more haste reduced the time intervals between absorbs (i.e., from a shield every 6 sec to a shield every 5.2 sec).

Additionally, EF ticks gain from Crit (not sure if the ticks grant Mastery or not), where SS does not.

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Is this for EF or SS? SS does scale with haste, being that more haste reduced the time intervals between absorbs (i.e., from a shield every 6 sec to a shield every 5.2 sec).

Additionally, EF ticks gain from Crit (not sure if the ticks grant Mastery or not), where SS does not.

Apologies, the 13 ticks was for EF. SS does scale with haste yes, but nowhere near as well. Whilst 25% Haste may give EF 13 ticks, it won't give SS any additional. I will do the math for SS ticks at some point, but I would expect us to not gain any extra ticks unless under extreme circumstances.

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I did the math based on Binkenstein's break points spreadsheet, which he's put away for now. The resulting set of cards, however, are found here: Maths of Pandaria: Healer Haste Breakpoint Cards - Blogs - Totem Spot. The images there should update in a couple days after he's added Sacred Shield to the Paladin list. It does scale horribly. The first extra tick is at 10% Haste but every additional tick requires an additional 20% Haste. (30%, 50%, 70%, etc) Eternal Flame is roughly every 10% with the first extra tick around 5% Haste.

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On the topic of SS, I randomly just found out that it does indeed "roll" its duration, much like Inquisition, Curse of Agony, Rejuv, etc.

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Is this for EF or SS? SS does scale with haste, being that more haste reduced the time intervals between absorbs (i.e., from a shield every 6 sec to a shield every 5.2 sec).

Additionally, EF ticks gain from Crit (not sure if the ticks grant Mastery or not), where SS does not.

the ticks do proc the mastery, and they also proc beacon. but the procs on beacon don't proc the mastery.

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