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Melthu

[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul)

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Curious question, what kinda formula would i use to calculate the EP/average agility gained from Kiril, Fury of the beasts

not asking you to do the math for me, im wonder how would i set up the formula so i can do it for this item and items alike

1 ppm, stacking buff starts at 19 seconds left and ends at 0 seconds left

so 1 seconds of 1-9 stacks each, 10 seconds of 10 stacks

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So, I've looked at several tutorials on rotation feral cat / feral bear .. However they do not teach all the orders which you must use the skills, but simply uses them as I wish someone would show the order to use a rotation with high dps for raid / pvp

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So, I've looked at several tutorials on rotation feral cat / feral bear .. However they do not teach all the orders which you must use the skills, but simply uses them as I wish someone would show the order to use a rotation with high dps for raid / pvp

As far as Raids and PvE is concerned there isn't a set "rotation" (beyond the preferred optimized opener). Its more of a priority system now. With procs and CD use the priority shifts and skews so much that saying do step 1-4, rinse repeat just doesn't work.

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I had seen a druid giving 40k dps, so I get confused to learn that can not reach 20, then wonder what to do and what skills to use

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To state the obvious, there's a section in the first post of this thread labeled "Rotation." You should check that out and practice it, as it will get you most of the way to optimal DPS.

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you should also check the mechanics of the fight. To reach 40K dps, the druid has to be both very good and very well stuffed (heroic 410) or the fight has to include some mechanic buffing dps, like Madness of deathwing or warlord zon'ozz.

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you should also check the mechanics of the fight. To reach 40K dps, the druid has to be both very good and very well stuffed (heroic 410) or the fight has to include some mechanic buffing dps, like Madness of deathwing or warlord zon'ozz.

I have seen 73k on LFR Deathwing without heroic gear. This kitty was in bear form most of the kill combat. So here is the log where he was kitty but it was not a kill.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

If you check the armory he is not decked in 410 heroic gear. 391 equipped feral gear.

Snidd @ Nordrassil - Game - World of Warcraft

I tried to calculate his pure dps to compare with my 388 kitty gear dps, which is only 35k at best (10 man). I removed trinket proc, T13 bonus ravages and bear form hits. I have been a tree since vanilla so I'm not your best keyboard bashing dps but I need to understand the difference.

Numbers x1000

44903 total (~45 Mil)

73,3 dps (73300 dps)

44903- (5280(spellweave) + 2150(lightning strike trinket proc) + 859 (4xT13 bonus ravage hits) +350 (bear hits)) =36264 total damage. 36254 / 613 active dps time = 59k dps

Here is our 10 man Deathwing combat from last night, in case anyone can give me some ideas.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I checked our gear and he is over 600 agi more, %3 crit more. We are both hit capped and expertise almost capped.

Maybe its not a good idea to compare dps on 25 and 10 man. I'm sure we are missing several melee buffs with limited 10 man groups. I will try to post an updated LFR kill as kitty to see better results.

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Note that I said that the feral had to be very good and well equiped OR that the fight had ton include some buffing dps mechanic.

In 10M raid, in some tries I managed to reach 50Kish dps. My guild finally killed the boss last week without me :(

If you look at some of the first kills, (in heroic mode, though) of great guilds, you'll notice all the dps are at least at 85K dps, so 73.3K in normal mode is not surprising.

His equipment is really good though : both BIS trinkets (one of them is 410 heroic...), BIS weapon in its 403 ilvl version, 4T13, which allows him to ravage for free without using the charge (and since on that fight, the charge can't be used before the last phase, it's a completely pure dps gain).

Understanding the difference between you and this feral is not really difficult : you say you've been mostly a tree so far, that explains almost everything. For every class, not only the feral, you have to be used to its mechanics to perfectly master the "cycle". Once you've mastered it, you have to be able to apply it successfuly on bosses with movements, where dots are harder to refresh and maintain on the target(s), where sometimes Berserk is best to keep for aoe situations, where using charge is impossible and provide less CP etc...

If added to that you don't have the same equipment as him, it's nothing but normal that you can't compete with him.

Oh and in ten man, your dps will always be inferior to a 25man feral druid as good as you, as you pointed out : a question of buffs.

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Understanding the difference between you and this feral is not really difficult : you say you've been mostly a tree so far, that explains almost everything. For every class, not only the feral, you have to be used to its mechanics to perfectly master the "cycle". Once you've mastered it, you have to be able to apply it successfuly on bosses with movements, where dots are harder to refresh and maintain on the target(s), where sometimes Berserk is best to keep for aoe situations, where using charge is impossible and provide less CP etc...

If added to that you don't have the same equipment as him, it's nothing but normal that you can't compete with him.

Oh and in ten man, your dps will always be inferior to a 25man feral druid as good as you, as you pointed out : a question of buffs.

I understand this, especially the getting used to melee combat/encounter and getting used to being a dps. But what amazes me still is the difference in numbers. I never expected that, the difference between a regular player like me and a real good dps can be so high even taking into account the gear and buff issues.

Thanks for your insight and on to the learning curve.

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Couple other factors to think of, Ciang;

LFR tends to have weaker supporting dps, so the cast time of Cataclysm (with the increased damage buff that comes alongside) has a much greater duration than a well orchestrated guild raid group will have. I have also found that most LFRs tend towards a different strategy for platforms, which can also artificially inflate damage.

As to your dps... first thing, you mangle too much, particularly in a group with another feral who is spending time as a Bear. More uptime on your bleeds and savage roar will also give a nice boost, though the downtime between targets can cause trouble there.

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Hey everyone, i'm just curious about my feral dps atm. I've got ilvl 382 gear and am only holding at about 20-21k on the boss dummy (is this any good?). I can't seem to find anybody or popular ferals on my server so i figured i'd ask here where the best are :p. Also can someone explain the reasons to get exp/hit cap now instead of prioritizing crit/exp, and why mastery isn't as good anymore. Here's a link to my armory, Drubomb @ Dragonmaw - Game - World of Warcraft . If anybody has any suggestions or if they could tell me that if i get hit/exp my dps would boost for sure then i'd much appreciate the advice :). Sorry that i could only give the dummy dps, i don't have the most DS progression atm, mostly just LFR. Thanks guys! :D

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Giving a lfr dps would be way better than the boss dummy, since you would be in a closer raid-like situation. 20-21K on a dummy really doesn't mean anything apart from showing whether or not you have mastered the cycle, and I must admit I wouldn't be able to tell if 21K on a dummy is bad or not. I would rather say yes but well...

As for the stats, in fact, at the very begining of Cataclysm, dots were overpowered because they scaled very highly with the brand new Mastery. After that, patches nerfed our dots and upped our direct attacks : mutilation, shred and ferocious bite. Then, since those don't scale with mastery, the latter lost most of its value.

Now, all stats are rather close to each other, simply because as feral druids we have a rather balanced style of dps, our dots being as important as our direct damages.

But being hit/exp capped still isn't required. You can perfectly just change those into haste/crit/mast whichever you like the most, depending on your dps style.

However, you should know that stats are not as important as the others depending on the situation. For example, if aoe situation are very important in a fight, hit and exp value's gonna reach the sealing, so to speak. On the contrary, being on a fight where you have to dot-and-run, mastery is going to be ahead from other stats. So in the end, you have to chose whether or not you want to adapt to each different situation or to just keep the config you feel the better with.

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I have tried to do some research on using Ferocious Bite during Berserk and I am trying to sift through everything to find the best way to maximize dps during Berserk.

Is it generally accepted as a dps loss if you Ferocious Bite during berserk unless you are close to 13 energy?

I believe it is a dpe loss to do so because the extra dmg doesn't factor in the 50% energy reduction from Berserk so you get 200% Ferocious Bite at a cost of 12.5+25=37.5 energy versus two ferocious bites at a cost of 12.5+12.5=25.

I guess what I am interested to know is whether to just spam Shred/Mangle (fight dependent) while maintaining Rip, Rake, and Savage Roar until you get your energy pool down to approx. 13 energy and then it would be ok to Ferocious Bite? Assuming that Rip/Rake/Savage Roar all have a good duration left on them, of course.

The question then is regarding 2p-T13 and the ability to refresh Rip at 60% rather than 25%. I assume that casting a Ferocious Bite to refresh Rip regardless of energy would be better dpe of course because you are in essence still casting two finishers for a maximum of 37.5 energy and only 5cp rather than having to earn 10 cp and casting rip for 30 energy and at 13 energy casting a Ferocious Bite for 13 energy for a total of 43 energy. This should translate to better dps also but instead of spamming Ferocious Bite every time you have 5cp you should really just continue to spam Shred/Mangle (fight dependent) until Rip is about to fall off and then refresh it with a Ferocious Bite, correct?

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Is it generally accepted as a dps loss if you Ferocious Bite during berserk unless you are close to 13 energy?

I believe it is a dpe loss to do so because the extra dmg doesn't factor in the 50% energy reduction from Berserk so you get 200% Ferocious Bite at a cost of 12.5+25=37.5 energy versus two ferocious bites at a cost of 12.5+12.5=25.

Your comparison is flawed. Of course Ferocious Bite with high energy during Berserk will be a DPE loss over FB with low energy. The comparison should be looking at is:

37.5 energy for one FB v. 40 energy for 2 Shreds.

Should you choose to not FB at any point during Berserk you will instead be Shredding in it's place.

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As I expect my raid to kill Blackhorn HC during the next ID, we will be going for Spine 10man HC soon. I might or might not have a regular raid spot for that one, but if I do, i'm likely going to be in as DPS.

The situation is as follows: mainspec ist Resto (iLvl 393), usuall offspec is Moonkin (iLvl 390), possible offspec is Feral (iLvl 390ish). 4pc T12 as Moonkin, 2pc T12/2pc T13 as Feral, the better weapon with my Moonkin (410 Dagger, but 378 offhand from FL, still using the heroic fire kitty staff from FL as Feral). If necessary I can post more detailed information on my gear.

So, here's my questions: Which spec would you use for Spine? And as I have been sat for Ultraxion for our kill because we only needed 2 Healers and most of the others DDs surpass me in gear by some 10 iLvls, which spec from your experience performs better on Ultrax? I feel the phasing in and out really hurts my DPS as Moonkin, but have not yet had the chance to try it as Feral.

Thank you in advance.

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As I expect my raid to kill Blackhorn HC during the next ID, we will be going for Spine 10man HC soon. I might or might not have a regular raid spot for that one, but if I do, i'm likely going to be in as DPS.

The situation is as follows: mainspec ist Resto (iLvl 393), usuall offspec is Moonkin (iLvl 390), possible offspec is Feral (iLvl 390ish). 4pc T12 as Moonkin, 2pc T12/2pc T13 as Feral, the better weapon with my Moonkin (410 Dagger, but 378 offhand from FL, still using the heroic fire kitty staff from FL as Feral). If necessary I can post more detailed information on my gear.

So, here's my questions: Which spec would you use for Spine? And as I have been sat for Ultraxion for our kill because we only needed 2 Healers and most of the others DDs surpass me in gear by some 10 iLvls, which spec from your experience performs better on Ultrax? I feel the phasing in and out really hurts my DPS as Moonkin, but have not yet had the chance to try it as Feral.

Thank you in advance.

Re - Spine: Boomkins are garbage on H spine. You only get 20 second windows to damage the tendons and Balance burst is garbage/nonexistent.

Re - Ultraxion: As the phasing mechanic goes, both specs are affected more or less equally. Feral is hindered even further without Shred. That being said I would base my decision on what I bring to the raid in each spec. Do you have a melee heavy, caster heavy, or balance comp? Does anyone else bring 5% crit? 5% spell haste? What about the small healing aspect of LotP? Or the 8% spell damage from Earth and Moon? You've probably already figured out hich spec to play before finishing all the questions.

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On maximizing your usefulness on Spine: Feral OT is simply the best choice.

It may not mean as much now, post 20% Tendon HP nerf, but as an Amalgamation tank, you can go pure dps gemming&enchants&glyphs, having a 4t13 tank bonus for the Barrel rolls and yet retain (at least) balance damage on the tendons, because you can go kitty for 5 of them (3 of which are Berserked).

This essentially frees up another dps spot.

Ultraxion i've also gone Feral OT role on first kills, again because of the damage a dps oriented bear brings. A fulltime cat is likely slightly better than Boomkin there, especially if you need another Hour soaker. Buffs are an important aspect as well of course.

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This post is about the distribution of secondary stats.

I was wondering about the fact that even though no real hit or expertise cap is really needed (according to the original poster), the usefulness of the stats rises in aoe situations because of swipe spam (as pointed out earlier in this thread). That itself hints that reaching the caps for the respective stats is efficient. To my knowledge, however, the situations where aoe is needed, the bulk of the damage is done to targets of lvl 87. Doesn't this mean, that if one wants to optimize the distribution of stats via reforging, one should concentrate on reaching lvl 87 caps instead of raidboss (lvl 88) caps?

I did some tinkering with rawr (to optimize reforging) and simcraft (to.. simulate) and it does indeed show a difference of about 100 dps towards the build with lower hit/exp rating. I get about 300 more haste with my gear when I ignore the 8%/26 limits.

The problem with this reasoning is however, that I'm not as much statistically oriented as some of the people here. My sims were made in a patchwerk sort of boss fight, which is in nature not the type of fight that the build is originally aimed for. Is there a way to actually check the usefulness of this sort of build, other than actually hard running it in actual instances? I myself have no access to heroic fights in DS.

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Wanna first thank you for posting such valuable info.

I have leveled up Leatherworking. Under Legs Enchantments I get the option to enchant for 145 Stamina & 55 agility. Is this better than the Dragonscale Leg Armor Enchantment?

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You must've mixed up the threads (with tanking one) or something.

It says "Legs: [Dragonscale Leg Armor]" and it hasn't been edited between your post and mine!

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The 4T13 bonus lets Tiger's Fury activate Stampede. This pushes Glyph of Tiger's Fury above Glyph of Bloodletting unless you're an engineer with Synapse Springs or using a trinket that benefits greatly from synching up with a 30 second cooldown on Tiger's Fury. It also, of course, requires you to Ravage a Stampede activated by Feral Charge before popping Tiger's Fury, otherwise you're throwing the bonus away.

I have read elsewhere at Fluiddruid.net that it is shown as a dps increase on sims to use Glyph of Tiger's fury instead of Glyph of Bloodletting. However due to making the rotation harder due to a less time for rip that it is not worth it unless you can execute the rotation perfectly.

So should I stick with Glyph of Bloodletting or switch to Glyph of Tiger's Fury since I do have the four piece?

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The 4T13 bonus lets Tiger's Fury activate Stampede. This pushes Glyph of Tiger's Fury above Glyph of Bloodletting unless you're an engineer with Synapse Springs or using a trinket that benefits greatly from synching up with a 30 second cooldown on Tiger's Fury. It also, of course, requires you to Ravage a Stampede activated by Feral Charge before popping Tiger's Fury, otherwise you're throwing the bonus away.

I have read elsewhere at Fluiddruid.net that it is shown as a dps increase on sims to use Glyph of Tiger's fury instead of Glyph of Bloodletting. However due to making the rotation harder due to a less time for rip that it is not worth it unless you can execute the rotation perfectly.

So should I stick with Glyph of Bloodletting or switch to Glyph of Tiger's Fury since I do have the four piece?

It was Mew script bug with ravage having almost 100% crit chance permanently or something. Once bug was fixed, glyph of TF was dropped down below bloodletting in DPS.

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FWIW, Mew shows Bloodletting at 250dps higher than TF on my current profile (ilvl 399, mastery 1423, crit 1256, haste 1290, 5 minute Patchwerk style fight, full raid buffs and pre-potting using top of tree Mew). Nonetheless, I recommend checking your own profile in Mew, particularly if you are going high haste and low mastery (I offtank on some fights, so I went high mastery to be able to be effective in bear while not gimping cat dps).

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I am running on a haste build (Enna @ Steamwheedle Cartel - Game Guide - World of Warcraft) and I ran some mew simulations. Indeed, as Leakfiller said, Glyph of Bloodletting is about 215 DPS above Glyph of Tiger's Fury. But another thing I discovered with the mew simulation is that Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike is about 12 DPS above Enchant Cloak - Major Agility, so I was wondering why is the agility enchant still recommended as being the best? Also Rawr suggests that the Critical Strike one is better.

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