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Rosin

4.3 Discipline Priest Compendium

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Indeed, very incorrect. I can see Mastery playing a much larger role in 10m, but certainly not 25m.

I could agree with this, I had been doing 10mans up until last week and I notice a definite difference in my healing from stacking mastery. In 10mans I find myself PoHing a lot and shield spamming more. For instance, on gunship.. its VERY nice to have that 35k shield to throw on someone to take a shadow bolt hit, its VERY nice to stack 6k DA per PoH cast vs 3.5k in that situation as well while you wait for the big explosion.

Obviously I am not going to go do a full reforge between fights (unless I'm asked really nicely) to switch between haste and mastery based on a per fight basis. I'm fully reforged mastery ATM and I love it. I reforged to reach the holy haste plateau (1290) for part of the 25man and ended up going back to disc while speced that way. Truth is I am coming out closer to the top of the healing meter being reforged to mastery, and most of that is DA not PW:S.

I see this is the prime argument with Priests, some people have math to back it up, others are in top world guilds. Who is right? That kids, is for you to discover for yourself. Call me stupid, or any other word.. but I don't believe in Math when it comes to healing. Sure we can get pure throughput based calculations based on our stats, however a healers role is always changing, always evolving based on the raid comp, your internet connection, and the alignment of Mars and Saturn. The point is, as a DPS you can take a math equation and say "these are your stats, this is your rotation, now push your two buttons and shutup" and if you follow that, you will generally be on par with the rest of your class. Hell with healing in t13, a feral druid with a 4piece can change the whole ballgame of what we do. Just keep this in mind as you argue math about something that is more of a "feel it" type of scenario.

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Yes healing is more about the situation and group healing dynamic than DPS. Yes there's a degree of judgement involved. But there's a difference between using your own data over math, and ignoring math all together. That's what you're suggesting. You could have 0 mastery and DA would still be a high % of your healing when spamming PoH, that's how the class works. Reforging Mastery is not giving you 6k DA shields over 3.5k without. Stacking Mastery will never, ever be better for PoH spamming than Crit or Haste. You're being willfully ignorant of the information presented to you if you think otherwise.

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I would prefer, in 10 or 25 man raids to be able to cast my ProH 10% faster than worry about a 1-2k increase in my DA. After stacking mastery, and then switching to haste and not worrying about any "plateaus", as long as your judgement of spell use is good, there is no need by far to stack mastery, you get enough of it from current gear levels.

If your judging your stats merely on you wanting to proc DA's then stacking haste then crit mean your procing more DA's over an entire fight rather than slower heals, less chance to crit = less DA.

There arnt that many times as disc I'm sat there spamming ProH in any fight apart from the last minute on ultraxion or stack phases on a couple of other bosses.

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Has anybody done any serious testing on the disc 4 pc T13 bonus? I.E. How much of an HPS gain it is, how much of an MP5 gain? I am currently sitting at 3 pieces and, since there are very attractive off-set pieces in this tier (shoulders and robe off of heroic morchok, for instance), I'm trying to figure out how much I should value getting that 4 pc bonus and am having difficulty with that. Since I don't have it, I can't test it myself.

Has anybody else done so?

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Yes healing is more about the situation and group healing dynamic than DPS. Yes there's a degree of judgement involved. But there's a difference between using your own data over math, and ignoring math all together. That's what you're suggesting. You could have 0 mastery and DA would still be a high % of your healing when spamming PoH, that's how the class works. Reforging Mastery is not giving you 6k DA shields over 3.5k without. Stacking Mastery will never, ever be better for PoH spamming than Crit or Haste. You're being willfully ignorant of the information presented to you if you think otherwise.

I apologize if my message seemed to suggest people should ignore math altogether (I kinda did make it sound that way), and information here as that wasn't my intent. My main goal in that post was to suggest that you cannot try to make a blanket statement for a healer. People should keep an open mind and TRY THINGS FOR THEMSELVES instead of reading a forum, then copying what that person does. Honestly I suck ass at math, so when I look at it I just have to take whoevers' word that wrote it that they are right. When I read information that disagrees with that math, that leaves me to rely on my personal experiences.

So on a fight like Ultraxion where I get the blue crystal, should I still stack haste there? What would be the point, the buff already gives you haste, and if I DA spam that fight.. crit is a bit RNGish for that situation, which leaves us with mastery.. I know you've said in an earlier post that this isn't the case, but I have been doing very well on Ultraxion this way. I will re-forge for next week and see where I'm at.

The OP suggests that we should balance the stats, yet some people have posted that HASTE IS KING. What is the real answer? If you can show me math that actually makes sense (i.e. x amount of haste = x cast time on GH/PoH) and how that haste rating relates to the balancing of other stats then I would have more direction. I don't really care about how haste affects Renew as disc, I don't even use Renew as disc regularly and I don't know any Disc priests who do. I'll re-iterate that I'm not a main raider (casual ftw) so I am not in heroics atm, not pushing them.. I'm just a lonely priest looking for the answers to life.

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Problem is your using a single encounter to work out the bigger picture, or that's how it reads.

The blue crystal is present after 3 1/2 minutes giving you 2 1/2 minutes until enrage. Less if your raid dps is solid. Yes it's 100% haste, but that adds to your existing haste.

Yes Crit is 'rngish' but it does make a BIG difference to the fact that (if we are using ultraxion as an example) your casting ProH every second. But where do you sit for the other three and a half minutes if you have stacked mastery? You'll be doing massive amounts of overheal when your other 2 healers have red and green and are healing the heck out of the rest of the raid.

I have also had my own questions about how to reforge. What's better or worse but just using common sense with them should allow you to conclude that haste will always be better than mastery until DA gets a much better % of the heal.

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Problem is your using a single encounter to work out the bigger picture, or that's how it reads.

The blue crystal is present after 3 1/2 minutes giving you 2 1/2 minutes until enrage. Less if your raid dps is solid. Yes it's 100% haste, but that adds to your existing haste.

Yes Crit is 'rngish' but it does make a BIG difference to the fact that (if we are using ultraxion as an example) your casting ProH every second. But where do you sit for the other three and a half minutes if you have stacked mastery? You'll be doing massive amounts of overheal when your other 2 healers have red and green and are healing the heck out of the rest of the raid.

I have also had my own questions about how to reforge. What's better or worse but just using common sense with them should allow you to conclude that haste will always be better than mastery until DA gets a much better % of the heal.

To answer your question honestly, I sit at around 22k HPS before getting the blue crystal, and I finish up the fight ~1-2mil behind the person with the red crystal. I guess I am focusing on THAT fight a bit for my argument, and it is a gimmick fight. It just seems to be the only fight I have issues with. Two healing that fight is different, I took the red crystal and ended up at 38k HPS by the end (we wiped at 6% 2-healing)

My personal choice is I really would like to get my PoH/GH cast time to 2.2 seconds w/o buffs.. but everytime I have tried a haste type reforge I end up falling behind on healing.

I'll actually get a log up next week of the fight, the first time I killed it, I forgot to turn on logging, and last night I was in a pug so I forgot yet again to turn it on.

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So on a fight like Ultraxion where I get the blue crystal, should I still stack haste there? What would be the point, the buff already gives you haste, and if I DA spam that fight.. crit is a bit RNGish for that situation, which leaves us with mastery.. I know you've said in an earlier post that this isn't the case, but I have been doing very well on Ultraxion this way. I will re-forge for next week and see where I'm at.

The OP suggests that we should balance the stats, yet some people have posted that HASTE IS KING. What is the real answer? If you can show me math that actually makes sense (i.e. x amount of haste = x cast time on GH/PoH) and how that haste rating relates to the balancing of other stats then I would have more direction. I don't really care about how haste affects Renew as disc, I don't even use Renew as disc regularly and I don't know any Disc priests who do. I'll re-iterate that I'm not a main raider (casual ftw) so I am not in heroics atm, not pushing them.. I'm just a lonely priest looking for the answers to life.

I'm really interested to see your logs for comparison. After looking at your armory, you and I are at very similar gear levels, but it sounds like we are having very different experiences as far as the stat weightings healing ultraxion in 10 man. I follow a haste > crit > mastery stat weighting personally, and keep mastery just about as low as possible. Here are my most recent ultraxion logs:

Two healing it along with a holy priest, and taking the green buff and then later the blue buff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Three heal wipe with the green buff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Three heal with the red buff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

For me, this fight is as close to what the spreadsheet models as pure PoH spam as it gets. I cast PW: S on this fight only for the rapture procs, cast penance occasionally to get grace stacks on the tank, and cast prayer of mending on cooldown. At all other times I am purely spamming PoH.

As you can see, even with very little mastery my divine aegis is my second largest source of healing, behind PoH itself.

Please do post some logs of your ultraxion attempts with your current gear setup if you get a chance, as I'd really like to compare them to see what effect it has.

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The fact is that DA itself is poorly affected by Mastery. If you choose to go against the grain and ignore the cold hard facts, you're only going to be gimping yourself. There is no argument, unless you have the logs and math to prove otherwise.

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I'm really interested to see your logs for comparison. After looking at your armory, you and I are at very similar gear levels, but it sounds like we are having very different experiences as far as the stat weightings healing ultraxion in 10 man. I follow a haste > crit > mastery stat weighting personally, and keep mastery just about as low as possible. Here are my most recent ultraxion logs:

Two healing it along with a holy priest, and taking the green buff and then later the blue buff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Three heal wipe with the green buff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Three heal with the red buff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

For me, this fight is as close to what the spreadsheet models as pure PoH spam as it gets. I cast PW: S on this fight only for the rapture procs, cast penance occasionally to get grace stacks on the tank, and cast prayer of mending on cooldown. At all other times I am purely spamming PoH.

As you can see, even with very little mastery my divine aegis is my second largest source of healing, behind PoH itself.

Please do post some logs of your ultraxion attempts with your current gear setup if you get a chance, as I'd really like to compare them to see what effect it has.

The only thing I can provide right now is the first week we got to Ultraxion, this is where I didn't get the kill log. Also my gear was a few items less than what it is now, at the time I think I had only the VP boots and the +heal proc trinket other than the current items I have.

Here is a log from the longest attempt while 3 healing, I was regular healing until the blue crystal spawned, I was attonement stacking a bit and PoH spamming, PoMing and badly keeping rapture up as you can see. I don't really have mana issues as I'm expecting the blue crystal and such so I focus less on rapture.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Looking at your first log when you 3 healed and got the red buff, it looks similar to what I remember seeing on Skada.. however the exact numbers are beyond me. I really hope to two heal it next week and catch a log. I don't know specifically what to compare in these for healing, still on the learning curve there but anything you could point out that could be improved on I'm open. I am going to try a more haste > crit thing but with my current gear setup I'm not sure how to do that as everytime I have reforged all haste, I still end up with the same PoH cast time it seems.. I have been doing a haste > mastery however. That is most likely why I haven't been getting good results with haste.

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I don't come here often, but I will make a post with my view on the matter. This seems like it is a never ending discussion and I will probably never persuade anyone, but hopefully it balances things out.

Some background information: I've been playing Disc since it first became viable for PvE and now in Cata I'm pretty serious about raiding. I've cleared T11 Heroic in a 10-man guild, started out T12 Heroic in the same guild, but for the rest of T12 Heroic and now T13 Heroic I have switched over to a 25-man guild. This wasn't out of preference for either raid size (I used to think I preferred 10, but enjoying myself so far in 25), but out of a desire to want to spend slightly less time raiding every week. We raid 3 times a week from 20:00-23:00, 9 hours total.

So far we have cleared Morchok and Hagara on Heroic, I expect it to stay at that for a while seeing our next raid is not until Jan 3rd with all the holidays. I'm not a _huge_ fan of WoL when it comes to healing because there are many variables that determine hps output in raids. However I have been consistently attaining high ranks this new tier, so I do feel like there's something I must be doing right.

For months now I feel that this thread and its predecessor have gravitated towards viewing healing the way that DPS is viewed. Spreadsheets, numbers, calculations. I appreciate the work being done in this and I can also see the value in knowing how each stat _theoretically_ affects your healing (output), but I think it's being taken too far by some. For myself I like to keep it to just defining/knowing how each stat theoretically affects my healing and keeping that in the back of my head when making real world decisions about what to do and how to gear.

--

I'll go over each secondary stat and see where that leads me, beside everything I obviously say about the individual stats, it's well established and logical that they all increase each other's effect :) Obviously there will be slight differences per encounter as to which balance of stats is better suited to that encounter. Myself I don't reforge in between fights, so I go with what works for DS as a whole for me. YMMV. Remember the following is all from the perspective of a 25m raid(er) and all personal ratings/percentages mentioned are completely unbuffed.

Spirit: This one's not really up for discussion in this thread I believe, everybody goes with the amount they're comfortable with. I myself currently run it around the 2300 mark, though I've been meaning to play around with it some more it feels just about right at the moment. Again this'll differ a lot for everybody, what mana CDs are available in your raid, how effectively they're used, which race you are, how good you are with Rapture/PI (I know I'm far from perfect when it comes to that) etc.

Haste: The consensus is that this stat is the best to reliably increase your _personal_ hps at the cost of increased mana usage (and thus longevity). I emphasized personal because I think a lot of people are approaching this the wrong way. The way I see it every encounter has a certain peak _raid_ hps requirement for a certain amount of time. When you can comfortably meet that hps requirement as a raid but you still decide to go for more haste then you are eating into other healers' hps (there's no reason to do that, and arguably no reason not to either but okay), but more importantly you are eating into your own longevity (even more so if you start overhealing). Disc has no spells that have a worthwhile synergistic effect with haste to trade in longevity for that effect.

Right now I am running 1465 rating (13,67% w/ 2/3 Darkness), there's a good chance I'll have to bump it a bit for the harder heroics. There's the argument about haste saving people, but I believe PW: S and thus Mastery to be better at that. If someone is low on health you have a few options. Cast a ~35k PW: S on them which protects them at T+0 (and with glyph also heal a bit), and lets the other healers' heals actually land and be effective. Cast a FH which hits for half, maybe equal a PW :S if crit at say T+1.15 and the person can die while you're casting that. Or even go for a GH, which hits for about equal a PW: S if 3/3 Grace which is unlikely, double should it crit, with the main drawback being it doesn't hit until let's say T+2 and again the person might already be dead by that time.

If there are multiple people at risk of dying then you probably haven't met the raid hps requirement and you aren't at that imaginary minimum haste yet for your particular raid and healers.

Crit: A throughput increase for your personal hps as is haste, wildly less reliable, but it doesn't explicitly come at the cost of longevity as haste does. I don't have as strong feelings towards crit as I do haste, it is harder to quantify as practically as I did haste, this tier of content I actually care least about how much crit I have. For saving people again I value PW: S the most and it can't crit. When tank healing your crit rate is significantly upped through Renewed Hope and I'd look at either haste (or even mastery) sooner to increase output in that case (if it's needed).

I'm aware crit is considered best for PoH spam because of the double dip effect PoH crits have with DA, however the only pure PoH spam fight this tier is Ultraxion, where the crystals also come into play. Between keeping enough spirit, haste and a good deal of mastery for those emergency spot heals (and also increasing PoH effectiveness, though slightly less effective than crit would), I just can't justify explicitly going for crit and reforging into it. Right now I hover around ~17%, 628 rating and 17,13% to be precise.

Mastery: A throughput increase and somewhat of a longevity increase depending on the encounter, mathematically the worst because it only affects PW: S and DA, practically PW: S saves lives as I already explained in great deal. I think it's often underappreciated what a huge boon a well-placed PW: S can be in a difficult encounter, not to mention it is essential in evening out spikes in tank healing through both PW: S and DA. Often times here PW: S is just regarded as a way to proc Rapture nowadays.

Not to mention, an encounter like Spine seems like a perfect opportunity to make this stat and PW: S shine a bit more again. After all it's the only "heal" available for gripped people who also have the debuff on them, aside from the Shaman totem. Currently I keep my mastery around the ~17 mark also (results in about 35k shields for me raidbuffed), 1545 rating and 16.62 mastery to be precise.

--

It's fun to increase your own throughput, but in the end you're not healing alone and you shouldn't neglect the huge strengths of your class just to shine a bit more personally (or have the mathematically most optimal distribution of ratings). Work together with the other healers and their strengths, let them do their jobs as well. Consider healing more as a raid job than a one-man job. And finally, healing is not the same as dpsing by a long shot, don't approach it as such. There's always more dps to be done, there's only so much hps to be done in any given encounter, the rest is triage, being smart, knowing who to heal, when to heal, saving people from dying.

Finally for those interested, a link to my guild on WoL: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis. All encounters have been healed with the above philosophy and stat distribution (roughly). There were alt healers (Zigar, Bold) a few times because we were short on healers which affects the chunk I take out of the total healing, but that only shows the potential even more.

/Greebs

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, this got way longer than intended.

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We don't really need a ton of opinions about stats in this thread. Nor do we need optimization discussion for normal mode fights. The sad truth is, the difference made between perfect secondary stats and the worst secondary stats isn't going to make or break a normal fight; the problems are in execution as a whole (possibly not just healer execution), and if you are trying to optimize for Ultraxion normal then you need to just not post in this thread -- go to plusheal or some other similar site to discuss that kind of thing.

The goal of stat prioritization and weighting is to determine how the numbers affect healing in certain situations. Once we know those -- which we do -- then it is up to each healer to apply those numbers for the encounters and their roles in those encounters. For instance, haste is amazing for PoH spam, but if you're using the Blue buff on Ultraxion (normal or heroic), it's the worst stat because you will already have capped at a 1s GCD when casting PoH. For normal mode, this doesn't really matter; for heroic, it could make a difference.

Everyone is free to disregard stat prioritization or apply them as they see fit, but they are what they are. There isn't room to argue "mastery beats haste for PoH spam" because every tool we have points to the opposite. If you decide you want mastery anyway (say, you value the life-saving ability of a stronger PW:S), that is totally fine so long as you make that decision from an informed perspective.

Please don't litter the thread with random logs of random kills. If people want to find logs, they can find them on their own. No one cares about your personal numbers on your guild's first kill of normal Ultraxion or whatever. Single logs prove little anyway as there is so much variation depending on assignment and raid performance that they prove basically nothing at all.

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PoH spamming:

x - base PoH amount

n - number of PoHs casts

c - crit chance; c = cb+cr (cb-based on int and buffs, cr - from gear{rating/179})

m - DA's % of base PoH amount; m = mb + mr (mb = 30% {from Divine Aegis }+ 6% {Mastery: Shield Discipline 20% of 30%} = 36% ; mr - from gear{rating/179*0.025*30})

Total heal : n*x*[(1-c)*(1+m)+c*(2+4*m)] = n*x*[1+mb+cb+3*cb*mb+3*cb*mr+3*cr*mb+3*cr*mr]

total heal depands on 3*cb*mr + 1.08*cr + 3*cr*mr (in terms of raitings we can change )

4 my own priest (389 itmlvl) cb=0.13+0.05 : 0.54*mr + 1.08*cr + 3*cr*mr

So crit > mastery for extended periods of PoH spamming (even 4 bis gear)

Personally i prefer haste over crit and mastery.

correct me if smt wrong with this math.

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[...]

The goal of stat prioritization and weighting is to determine how the numbers affect healing in certain situations. Once we know those -- which we do -- then it is up to each healer to apply those numbers for the encounters and their roles in those encounters.

[...]

Great, we are in agreement then. Yet I still see a lot of blanket statements in this thread such as Haste is the best, Mastery the worst and prios like Haste > Crit > Mastery, which don't empower new or upcoming Disc Priests (or even current, looking to get updated) to apply those numbers for themselves in the slightest.

In any case, you are going beside my point of having to consider the bigger picture of your raid group and the healers in it. While interesting to consider the Disc Priest as an island in a raid group, it's not. The dynamics of your specific group of people do influence (or should) your gearing choices when it comes to secondary stat distribution. This is something nobody seems to be considering.

So what is most interesting and what should happen more is each stat being seen and discussed on its own, if there's still a need for that. Not just the theoretical side of the stat but practical as well (as I tried to do). Less blanket statements should be made, if saying one stat is better than the other or posting a prio, make it obvious in which specific situation this is the case.

These simple things would make for a more enjoyable read and stop the endless discussions coming up about which sec stat is king, making this look like your run of the mill DPS thread, which it can't be because of the simple fact healing is a whole different ballgame.

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We don't really need a ton of opinions about stats in this thread. Nor do we need optimization discussion for normal mode fights. The sad truth is, the difference made between perfect secondary stats and the worst secondary stats isn't going to make or break a normal fight; the problems are in execution as a whole (possibly not just healer execution), and if you are trying to optimize for Ultraxion normal then you need to just not post in this thread -- go to plusheal or some other similar site to discuss that kind of thing.

The goal of stat prioritization and weighting is to determine how the numbers affect healing in certain situations. Once we know those -- which we do -- then it is up to each healer to apply those numbers for the encounters and their roles in those encounters. For instance, haste is amazing for PoH spam, but if you're using the Blue buff on Ultraxion (normal or heroic), it's the worst stat because you will already have capped at a 1s GCD when casting PoH. For normal mode, this doesn't really matter; for heroic, it could make a difference.

Everyone is free to disregard stat prioritization or apply them as they see fit, but they are what they are. There isn't room to argue "mastery beats haste for PoH spam" because every tool we have points to the opposite. If you decide you want mastery anyway (say, you value the life-saving ability of a stronger PW:S), that is totally fine so long as you make that decision from an informed perspective.

Please don't litter the thread with random logs of random kills. If people want to find logs, they can find them on their own. No one cares about your personal numbers on your guild's first kill of normal Ultraxion or whatever. Single logs prove little anyway as there is so much variation depending on assignment and raid performance that they prove basically nothing at all.

Ah my mistake, I thought a logical conclusive discussion was being held on a forum that encouraged legitimate questions and strives to help people understand their class. I shall go back to reading EJ and not posting questions, I'll just take everything I see at face value and be a part of the herd like everyone else. My posting of logs was at the request of the previous poster, posting logs is not littering as I am not trying to "show my personal numbers or guild first kill" I'm a casual player seeking advice on how to play my class at its potential. Posting a log is intended to accentuate my point in the posting that I made. It is a bit easier to post a log than to suggest someone go to WoL and try and find it manually. I do look at WoL and I do armory the priests that rank, and it seems 50/50 are haste or mastery stacked. Explain this?

You have every tool, where? I have still yet to see a simcraft or anything that shows which of the two is better. I'm not seeking an end all be all stat, I just want to know what to focus on and I do have a great idea and grasp on it now.

The OP posted this, it looks like mastery is valued higher? Am I reading this wrong?

[TABLE]Statistic Rating Increase Adjusted Stat Weight

Disc Mastery 179.28 2.5% 71.71 1.3

Spellpower 93.45 1% 93.45 1.0

Haste 128.06 1% 128.06 0.73

Holy Mastery 179.28 1.25% 143.42 0.65

Disc Critical 179.28 1.147% 156.35 0.60

Holy Critical 179.28 0.557% 268.92 0.36[/TABLE]

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I have still yet to see a simcraft or anything that shows which of the two is better.

The Simcraft in the OP clearly shows that Haste > Crit > Mastery generally unless you are spamming PW:S (in which Mastery will be best): Simulationcraft Results

Make sure you look at Disc's graphs and not Holy.

And yes, the op does show Mastery being higher in the chart. How they reached that conclusion isn't clear. It is possible the spreadsheet was showing them that as the spreadsheet may have some errors. The data however does not have errors.

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The OP is out of date; I owe Rosin some numbers from T13 gearing levels. There were a number of posts about this in the past, such as:

http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110244-cataclysm_discipline_priest_compendium/p27/#post1960671

http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110244-cataclysm_discipline_priest_compendium/p27/#post1961970

And, of course, plugging yourself into the priest spreadsheet or simcraft will get similar results results.

I will generate some new weightings for more recent gear levels, but nothing has changed (the numbers all just get a little bigger together since incremental changes have more impact because of a higher total gearing level).

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Stat weightings aside, has anyone had a chance to run some numbers on the t13 4pc? I've been testing it out with some raid finder gear, very useful when it procs, typically a 63k PW:S and 14% total mana Rapture proc. Statistically 1/10 PW:S will take the Time Slip effect, but I don't see it stacking up against the t12 4pc which totalled about 8% of our healing. I'm by no means warranting keeping a t12 4pc over a t13, it's just an interesting comparison.

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Ah I see there are two threads discussing the same subject. It might help if they both reflected the same information, or if one was deleted or merged or something?

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Mastery: A throughput increase and somewhat of a longevity increase depending on the encounter, mathematically the worst because it only affects PW: S and DA, practically PW: S saves lives as I already explained in great deal. I think it's often underappreciated what a huge boon a well-placed PW: S can be in a difficult encounter, not to mention it is essential in evening out spikes in tank healing through both PW: S and DA. Often times here PW: S is just regarded as a way to proc Rapture nowadays.

The problem of mastery is that PW:S does not need the masterybonus to fulfill it´s role in our heal rotation. We use it as an emergency heal or to shield incoming damage (eg twilight onslaught). As an emergency heal it is always! followed by either penance, FH or GH which actually "save" the player permanently. All three profit from mastery only in a small way therefore we can disregard mastery as long as we dont use PW:S as our mainhealspell. Recount should tell you what stat to use. Mastery is only! ever usefull if the player would die in the time it takes you to follow the shield with another spell but could be saved with additional mastery rating. Considering the tiny amount we get from mastery those cases should be negligible except in the special case of tankhealing. If we tankheal and use PW:S everytime possible mastery get´s more valuable. If PW:S is only used for rapture/true emergencies dont bother collecting items with mastery.

I liked mastery a lot because i like PW:S and Aegis. Took we some time to realize that i dont need mastery to use both efficiently.

Not to mention, an encounter like Spine seems like a perfect opportunity to make this stat and PW: S shine a bit more again. After all it's the only "heal" available for gripped people who also have the debuff on them, aside from the Shaman totem. Currently I keep my mastery around the ~17 mark also (results in about 35k shields for me raidbuffed), 1545 rating and 16.62 mastery to be precise.

Again. Having 17 instead of 9 mastery provides you with a slightly higher shield (like ~8-9k ?) at the cost of 12% haste which would help more to negate the healing debuff you have to get rid of anyway.

It's fun to increase your own throughput, but in the end you're not healing alone and you shouldn't neglect the huge strengths of your class just to shine a bit more personally (or have the mathematically most optimal distribution of ratings). Work together with the other healers and their strengths, let them do their jobs as well. Consider healing more as a raid job than a one-man job. And finally, healing is not the same as dpsing by a long shot, don't approach it as such. There's always more dps to be done, there's only so much hps to be done in any given encounter, the rest is triage, being smart, knowing who to heal, when to heal, saving people from dying.

Would you please explain to me why i should decrease my good throughput stats in favour of a bad throughput stat and how this should help toward "working together with the other healers and their strengths" ? It doesnt even remotely make sense.

It is not possible to steal hps. Stop repeating that nonsense!!! On your raids progress fights you need as much hps as you can get to save people from their mistakes, which cause above average hps requirements to keep everyone in the green. In farm runs your stats do not matter at all and neither does the fact that one of your healer colleague is playing online poker/eating dinner or doing something else during the bossfight.

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Hey guys

is there an addon wich shows you a 12 sek timer when your next Rapture is ready?

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Hey guys

is there an addon wich shows you a 12 sek timer when your next Rapture is ready?

Ingela's Rapture Timer

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Hey guys

is there an addon wich shows you a 12 sek timer when your next Rapture is ready?

I highly recommend a Power Aura if you use that addon (which is too good not to, or another addon that is similar). My aura probably does the same thing as Ingela's Rapture in just a different form, it detects when you get a Rapture proc and then counts to 12 to let you know it is still on cooldown. When the aura vanishes, your Rapture is usable again (and because it counts while on cooldown you can decide if you want to throw a PW:S a couple of seconds early).

You can edit it as much as you would like, just copy this and import it into your Power Auras in game:

Version:4.23; g:0.9686; icon:Spell_Holy_Rapture; buffname:Rapture; r:0.9843; Extra:true; begin:3; bufftype:13; stacks:1; texture:2; alpha:1; duration:12; size:0.29; torsion:0.99; y:-225; texmode:2; timer.g:0.9686; timer.h:2.16; timer.UpdatePing:true; timer.enabled:true; timer.r:0.9843; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:TOP; timer.y:-59; timer.UseOwnColor:true; timer.ShowActivation:true

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I posted this on MMO-C and figured I should post it here to discuss the matter further, feedback etc more than welcome!

The "Above link" is this one: Discipline Secondary Stats and Priority | Tales of a Priest

My reforging:

Affinitii @ Illidan - Game - World of Warcraft

For what it's worth, I disagree with the above link about Crit. I even bothered running the simcraft for priest where it says haste=crit>mastery and it's just plain wrong.

Denkz.pngg

Now while crit does sound like the obvious answer, it really isn't. Yes crits do 200%, but if you cast even 1 shield every 3-4 PoH casts then mastery outweighs crit as it benefits both of these. The more shields you cast, the higher mastery is valued -- so on a standstill fight like Ultraxion where you spam nothing but POH crit will win out but by a very very minimal amount. For the rest of the fights, mastery will outweigh crit slightly (again depends on how many shields you cast, but the break-even point is about 1 shield every 4-5 casts or so).

The values of crit and mastery are very very similar in most cases, so a general "reforge based on how you heal" is fine, but in 99% of the situations mastery is going to outweigh crit by a decent margin. Don't fall into the mindset of "amg it double dips my DA so it must be the best stat evar" because it's wrong.

People using a simcraft model to back up their "crit>mastery" argument is a very moot point simply because the simcraft is using GHEAL as your primary heal with literally zero POH casts at all. Much less the simcraft is based around ONE fight, and the ONE fight it uses is significantly different than any of the other fights you will heal.

The biggest argument around haste AND reforging out of spirit is the more haste you have, the faster you use your mana. I am running with the spirit trinket so I can reforge out of ~880 spirit (plus a bit more) and gain mastery vs a bit of int -- the tradeoff nets a slight improvement in overall hps and stat gains are worth it. Remember that when reforging INTO haste and OUT OF spirit, use your own discretion and your own situation to determine what is best. 10 man vs 25 man, tank heal vs raid heal, support role, etc all factor into what is "best" for your reforging.

Edit ---------- **SPREADSHEET STUFF BELOW THIS LINE** ---------------

**I do not take credit for this spreadsheet. Spreadsheet was created by Maladii of US-Illidan (Blood Legion).**

GM6gO.png

The red outlined number "3" is the number of POH casts per shield. The "break even" point is roughly ~3.3 poh casts per shield in my current gear (all of my current values are placed in a separate portion of the spreadsheet).

Basically your "average" spreadsheet/simcraft will value crit over mastery because it is calculating you doing nothing but POH coating, but that isn't the case in almost every instant. This spreadsheet is calculating for Prayer of Healing, POH with BT, and Shields throwing in the base healing, the healing per hit, and other values dependent on your current stat values with your gear setup. Crit can be valued higher in extreme cases that involve having an absurd amount of haste (somewhere in the ballpark of like 35%), and requires a very very strict POH-coating only healing process which in 99% of the fights is sub-optimal and more or less healing incorrectly.

Disc priests, at least in a 25man setting, fit into more of a "support" type role where we PRIMARILY raid heal, but we tank heal as needed, and put shields on tanks/raid. Assuming you cast at LEAST 1 shield per 3 POH casts on average, mastery will outweigh crit by a small margin.

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