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nextormento

Windwalker (DPS): a flurry of tender fisting.

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Windwalker monk - Beta discussion

-beta build 15851-

Disclaimer

This thread is for basic discussion of the DPS Monk spec. In the interest of having a centralized listing of abilities and core concepts of the spec, I've compiled the following post. It's my understanding that the Windwalker will no be shipped as we now know it from beta testing, so this is not intended to be a guide; it may serve the purpose to start shaping one out, though. In the meantime I'll be updating this post as we get new beta releases, and with feedback from this thread and others in several discussion boards, datamining sites and live footage; see that, at the moment, I don't have access to beta, so any kind of information to fill up gaps, or further develop the OP, is welcomed; if you spot an error and think replying to the thread would pollute it excessively, feel free to PM me. In the future I might be interested in writing a guide, but I haven't yet decided if I'll be directly involved in Monk theorycrafting, that is: the guide is still up for grabs so, if you are up to the task, don't hesitate to contact EJ Mods (particularly Aldriana).

Please note that, as the monk class is prone to fast changes, it's understandable that the discussion will flow in more speculative ways than usual, and moderation may be a tad more lenient. However, all general forum rules apply: I'll be checking regularly on the thread, and it's expected that mods will mod.

Overview

The windwalker monk is the dps spec of the new class introduced with Mists of Pandaria. It's a mêlée fighter themed around punches and kicks with a wedge of martial arts. Monks were announced to lack autoattack and use 3 different resources; the implementation we have now in beta does autoattack and has a streamlined 2 resource system.

At its core it functions much like the rogue class, where some basic spells need to be used before gaining access to presumably more powerful spells or finishers. Monks, unlike rogues, have a fixed cost for those finishers, thusly making possible to chain finishers.

Core mechanics and spells

Resource system

Much like rogues, dps monks use two resources, energy and chi. It's worth noting that, as it stands, windwalker monks are largely capped on resources, not gcd (the gcd is 1'', like that of rogues). The main energy consuming move (Jab) is somewhat expensive and, while it can be used several times in a row, it's not an spammable ability.

Energy

Is an ever-regenerating pool used by certain utility spells (disarms, snares, heal, etc.) and, primarily by Jab (40e). It regens at a steady pace (8 per second baseline); aside from haste procs and bloodlust-like buffs there's only one way to change energy acquisition: by using the 60s cooldown ability_monk_energizingwine.gif Energizing Brew.

Chi

Is built primarily through the use of Jab (2chi per, thanks to Stance of the fierce Tiger); it's consumed in finishers of sorts, being the main difference with rogues the static chi cost; also, unlike combo points, chi stacks on the monk. Chi can be pooled up to 4 (5 if talented) and most finishers cost 1 or 2, so it is possible to chain finishers. Aside from Jab, there are some other ways to gain chi:

-ability_monk_expelharm.gif Expel Harm: self-heal that also deals damage and grants 2chi (thanks to Stance of the fierce Tiger). Additionly it doesn't trigger mastery procs but its damage as of 15781 compensates for that.

-ability_monk_cranekick_new.gif Spinning Crane Kick: aoe move that grants 1chi.

-ability_monk_chibrew.gif Chi Brew: a lvl45 talent that replenishes all chi on a 90s cooldown.

-ability_monk_powerstrikes.gif Power Strikes: another lvl45 talent that adds an extra 1chi per jab every 20''.

-spell_priest_finalprayer.gif Afterlife: a windwalker-only passive that has a 50% chance to summon a ability_monk_healthsphere.gif Chi Sphere by dealing a killing blow with Blackout Kick, which restores 1chi when walking over it.

-ability_monk_cracklingjadelightning.gif Crackling Jade Lightning: which has a 15% chance to build 1chi per tick.

Passive spells

pandarenracial_bouncy.gif Combo Breaker: this is the windwalker's mastery. Each time the monk uses Jab, there is a chance to proc either or both of ability_monk_palmstrike.gif Combo Breaker: Tiger Palm and ability_monk_roundhousekick.gif Combo Breaker: Blackout Kick, thus allowing the use of those finishers free of cost.

ability_monk_tigereyebrandy.gif Brewing: Tigereye Brew: while this buff is passive it requires player feedback (consuming the brew). It's a mechanic that stacks as a self-buff (up to 10) every 4chi that the monk consumes; once released with ability_monk_tigereyebrandy.gif Tigereye Brew, it'll increase the windwalker's damage by up to 20% during 15''.

spell_monk_windwalker_spec.gif Stance of the Fierce Tiger: each monk spec has a stance (tanking being the Sturdy Ox, and healing the Wise Serpent). The dps one increases damage dealt by 20% and is required in order to use most of the damage moves. It also makes it so that Jab and Expel Harm produce 2 chi instead of the baseline 1 of other monk specs.

ability_ghoulfrenzy.gif Tiger Strikes: is a proc that simply increases the amount of white swings the monk performs.

ability_monk_dpsstance.gif Way of the Monk: increases white damage if dual wielding or attack speed if wielding a two-hander.

ability_monk_powerstrikes.gif Power Strikes (through talents): if specced into this, the windwalker will get one extra chi per Jab every 20''. If that chi goes over the cap it'll summon a Chi Sphere that can be absorbed by the monk afterwards.

Raid buffs

All monk specs provide ability_monk_legacyoftheemperor.gif Legacy of the Emperor (+5%stats). Windwalker monks formerly brought the new mastery raid buff but now grant the 5% increased critical strike chance one ability_monk_prideofthetiger.gif Legacy of the White Tiger (+5%crit).

Usable spells

Basic abilities

[table] Name | cost | mod | cd | extra

ability_monk_jab.gif Jab | 40e | 1.5 | none | produces 2chi

ability_monk_expelharm.gif Expel Harm | 40e | 3.15 | 15s | produces 2chi

ability_monk_tigerpalm.gif Tiger Palm | 1chi | 3 | none | ability_monk_tigerpalm.gif Tiger Power

ability_monk_roundhousekick.gif Blackout Kick | 2chi | 8 (+1.6) | none | spell_misc_hellifrepvpcombatmorale.gif Combat Conditioning

ability_monk_risingsunkick.gif Rising Sun Kick | 2chi | 14.4 | 8s | ability_criticalstrike.gif Mortal Wounds and 15'' of 10% increased damage taken debuff.

monk_ability_fistoffury.gif Fists of Fury | 3chi | 5 (*5) | 25s |

[/table]

ability_monk_jab.gif Jab: this is the most basic attack and main chi builder (2chi per 40energy). It'll morph into ability_monk_jab.gif jab, inv_mace_08.gif club, inv_axe_97.gif sever, inv_sword_10.gif slice, inv_spear_03.gif pike or ability_monk_staffstrike.gif clobber if you equip fists/maces/axes/swords/polearm/staff. Following the rogue simile, this'd be a sinister strike.

ability_monk_expelharm.gif Expel Harm: is an aternative to Jab; it builds as much chi for the same energy cost, while dealing more damage and also some self-healing. Its drawback is the 15'' cooldown and the fact that it won't trigger mastery procs.

ability_monk_tigerpalm.gif Tiger Palm: is a cheap finisher with no cooldown. It buffs the monk with ability_monk_tigerpalm.gif Tiger Power ignoring 5% armour (stacking up to 3 times) for 15''.

ability_monk_roundhousekick.gif Blackout Kick: is another finisher with no cooldown. Along with the two above, this move is shared by all monk specs. For windwalkers it can proc a 4''dot (4 ticks) dealing an extra 20% damage when attacking from behind thanks to spell_misc_hellifrepvpcombatmorale.gif Combat Conditioning. They are iterating over this ability fairly often.

ability_monk_risingsunkick.gif Rising Sun Kick: is a windwalker-only finisher on a short cooldown. It'll also debuff enemy units for 15'' to take 10% increased damage from the monk.

monk_ability_fistoffury.gif Fists of Fury: is an expensive finisher on a short-ish cooldown that damages (and stuns) in a frontal cone during 4s. Note that, as a regular channel, it disables autoattak and will break out of channel if moving.

AoE abilities

[table] Name | cost | cd

Spinning Crane Kick|40e|

Fists of Fury | 3chi | 25s

Flying Serpent Kick | |25s

[/table]

ability_monk_cranekick_new.gif Spinning Crane Kick: is shared among all specs and is very similar to a warrior whirlwind. It awards 1chi, half the amount of chi a Jab does and disables autoattack.

monk_ability_fistoffury.gif Fists of Fury: is very expensive as an aoe, since it splits the damage between all units; its strength as an aoe, if any, lies in the aoe stun (which is now merely a token of it's former incarnation)

ability_monk_flyingdragonkick.gif Flying Serpent Kick: has two components, a movement forward and an aoe damage/snare on-landing (priest_icon_chakra_green.gif Flying Serpent Kick). It has no cost so it may work as a filler spell.

Other damage related abilities

[table] Name | cost | cd

Brewing: Tigereye Brew|none|none

Spinning Fire Blossom|1chi

Crackling Jade Lightning| |

Path of Blossoms|30e|

[/table]

ability_monk_tigereyebrandy.gif Brewing: Tigereye Brew: formerly a cleave-like cooldown, this is now a mechanic that stacks as a self-buff (up to 10) every 4chi that the monk consumes; once released with ability_monk_tigereyebrandy.gif Tigereye Brew, it'll increase the windwalker's damage by 2% per charge during 15''.

ability_monk_explodingjadeblossom.gif Spinning Fire Blossom: ranged attack that can be used as filler on the pull (if specced into Chi Brew) or while running.

ability_monk_cracklingjadelightning.gif Crackling Jade Lightning: channeled ranged damage; each tick has a chance to generate 1chi.

inv_misc_herb_heartblossom.gif Path of Blossoms: mouse-targeted fire damage triggered by the enemy when stepping on it (much like a hunter's trap)

Utility spells

All monks come with a wide array of spells such as interrupts, disarms, mobility, etc. Some of them, if previous xpacks serve as an example, are more pvp oriented, but may see an use during pve at some point.

[table] Name | cost | cd | effect

ability_monk_roll.gif Roll |none |none |Much like blink it'll teleport the caster a short distance forward; if used while falling the monk will still get the fall damage after landing.

ability_monk_paralysis.gif Paralysis | | |Basic crowd control move (30 to 60s effect)

spell_holy_dispelmagic.gif Detox |20e |8s |Dispel diseases and poisons

ability_monk_spearhand.gif Spear Hand Strike |30e |15s |Interrupt (or a 4'' silence if the caster is facing the monk).

ability_druid_lunarguidance.gif Resuscitate |50e | |Ooc res (10s cast).

ability_warrior_disarm.gif Grapple Weapon | |60s |Disarm; if the weapon in cases is better than that of the monk it'll increase by 5% the monk's damage, healing or damage reduction

ability_shockwave.gif Disable |15e |none |Speed reduction; roots the enemy if already snared.

ability_monk_healthsphere.gif Healing Sphere |60e | |Green orbs that players can walk into and get healed (1.5''cast time).

ability_monk_zenmeditation.gif Zen Meditation |none |180s |99%damage reduction plus self-redirect raid damage, breaks on melee attack (8s channeled).

ability_monk_fortifyingale.gif Fortifying Brew | |180s |+20%hp -20%inc damage during 20''.

ability_monk_cracklingjadelightning.gif Crackling Jade Lightning| | |Much like arcane missiles, it channels nature damage during 6'' over one target with the possibility to knockback said target.

ability_monk_provoke.gif Provoke | | |Basic taunt move

monk_ability_transcendence.gif Transcendence | |45s |Demonic circle of sorts.

spell_shaman_spectraltransformation.gif Transcendence: Transfer |1chi |25s |

ability_hunter_pathfinding.gif Zen Pilgrimage | |1800s |Teleport to Peak of Serenity (?)

ability_hunter_pathfinding.gif Zen Pilgrimage: Return | | |

ability_monk_touchofdeath.gif Touch of Death |3chi |90s |Instakills an enemy. Only works on pve and against targets below the monk max health.

ability_hunter_displacement.gif Swift Reflexes | | |Defensive passive proc.

spell_ice_rune.gif Touch of Karma |2chi |90s |Windwalker only. All damage taken is deflected and instead aplied to the enemy during 6''.

ability_monk_sparring.gif Sparring |none | |Windwalker only. Defensive passive stacking buff.

ability_rogue_cheatdeath.gif Adaptation |none | |Windwalker only. 25% increased dodge for 5'' when disarmed.

spell_priest_finalprayer.gif Afterlife | | |Windwalker only. When dealing a killing blow, it can summon Healing Spheres or Chi Spheres, that restore health or 1 chi.

[/TABLE]

Combat cycle

(WIP)

As of the current beta build, a windwalker monk has some spells worth tracking: the mastery procs, the debuff from Rising Sun Kick and the charges from Tigereye Brew. A combat cycle seems to be mostly centered around chi expenditure and cooldowns. At first sight the cycle doesn't seem too complex: use Jab as much as your energy lets you and expend chi on the most efficient finisher available. Mastery procs don't seem to come with an icd; thus, they should be used as soon as possible (or at least prior to using Jab), so as to maximize the amount of procs a monk can get during a fight.

We can asume that using RSK on cooldown is better than using it simply for the debuff. Also, FoF (if single targeting) is one of the highest DPC moves we have so it stands to reason it'll be used on cooldown. A normal patchweresque fight could be described as:

Put TP/RSK up

Jab/Expel Harm if close to cap

Use Tigereye if at 10 stacks

Use cooldowns if off cd: Energizing Brew, RSK, FoF

Use combo breaker procs (BOK or/and TP)

Consume chi with BOK

Jab/Expel Harm if no chi available

Flying Serpent Kick if no energy available

/flex

Aside from not letting either resource to cap, there really is no optimal point in a cycle to spam Jab or expend chi: you can set yourself into a cycle where you only build as much chi as needed for your next finisher or build up to 4 (or 5) chi to fire finishers back to back. If anything, this second option of chaining finishers is to be preferred when fishing for trinket or enchant procs. Interestingly, there's no apparent reason either to pool energy unless the monk needs to be on interrupts (Spear Hand is not as cheap a spell as other classes may be used to) or similar duties.

Spell Juggling

-Rising Sun Kick debuffs targets; using the ability on cooldown ensures 100% uptime. As of beta 15781 it's worth to keep it on cooldown, but it's worth notign that some builds in the past favored slightly using the ability only to keep the debuff up.

-Tiger Palm's self-buff should pose no problems to be kept up through mastery procs. However, since it stacks, it'd stand to reason that a certain degree of attention must be kept on it.

-Tigereye does require a bit of player awareness to be used efficiently: the monk is not to produce charges when fully stacked. At 8e/s, a windwalker will gain on average 0.4chi/s (plus ~0.05chi/s if speccced into Power Strikes); at that rate, a fully stacked Tigereye would take 100s (~88.89 with Power Strikes) at which point it should be consumed.

-Mastery Procs: as pointed above, they should be used as soon as they are available, for risk of wasting a proc if not consumed prior to using Jab again.

Multitarget

Unlike many other classes, monks lack the ability to multi-dot every target during aoe. They come, however, with several different multitarget options such as pbaoe and frontal aoe. Notably, in the first beta builds they had a cleave and FoF was a lot more useful; as of current beta, an aoe cycle is composed of Spinning Crane Kick spam, Rising Sun to burn the chi and aoe-debuff enemies plus Tiger Palm to keep up the self-buff.

Burst

Burst on demand, as usual, comes in two flavours: cooldown usage (which I'll cover in the section below) and resource-unfriendly cycles. Windwalkers can perfrom finisher-chaining back to back; this produces a surplus of energy that'll need to be consumed after a long chain. Notably, the amount of damage overall is the same, but the distribution of it is not. Current chi acquisition and mastery procs make it so finisher chains are extremely common, making this form of burst almost inexistent.

Note: the following dates to when Jab produced only 1chi; since this may change a lot I won't be serching for new strings until the waters settle down.

Depending on mastery procs and the chi cap, a windwalker may be able to perform long chains of finishers back to back. For instance, with both mastery procs up, the monk could perform Blackout(m)>Rising Sun>Palm(m)>Palm>Palm>Chi Brew>Palm>Jab>Blackout>Rising Sun>Palm thus performing 9 finishers during 11'' without capping energy (ending with 70 plus regen from haste)

Cooldowns

-Flying Serpent Kick: the land-on-demand effect of this spell is off the gcd, so it can be used to deal aoe damage on the spot. Since it's free of cost, it will have an use in single target fights as a filler spell; if the movement is not desired, it should be possible to write a macro so the monk insta-lands.

-Fists of Fury: is a very strong cooldown but disables autoattack so it's unlikely to be used in single target. At some point we'll need to analyze the 'damage per chi' for each ability and determine if it's worth to weave this in.

-Energizing Brew (60energy over 6'' on a 60''cd) and Chi Brew (caps chi on a 90''cd if talented) are the resource cooldowns for a nice boost.

-Tigereye Brew: while not technically a cooldown, the rate at which charges are built is very steady (getting fully stacked in about 80s). Its usage is also much like any other cooldown (on cd on straight up fights or saving it for burst on demand); caveat emptor, it can't be used at the start of a fight (for lack of stacks) thusly missing one use compared to other trinkets/abilities with cooldowns.

Gear and Stats

Gear

Windwalker monks will primarily wear agility leather (with a 5% agility bonus if all 8 pieces are leather thanks to inv_chest_leather_06.gif Leather Specialization). They can ability_dualwield.gif Dual Wield one-handers (all kinds but daggers) and can also equip staves and polearms. Weapon choice has an effect on a couple spells: ability_monk_standingkick.gif Fighting Style which morphs Jab into another abilities (only cosmetic or rp-flavored) and ability_monk_dpsstance.gif Way of the Monk which may serve as a balance lever in the future. It's unclear to me which weapons will be the best choice for a dps monk, but it's worth noting that, if all other things are equal, dual wielding tends to edge out.

Tier sets

Tier 14

2pc: Reduces the cooldown of your Fists of Fury ability by 5 sec.

4pc: Increases the duration of your Energizing Brew ability by 5 sec.

Stats

Agility will, of course, be favoured; weights for every other stat are not known yet.

At the moment, mechanics are still unfinished and strike formulae very much likely will change. All in all, our best guess is that hit/exp will be strong stats if only for being traditioinaly top-EP for most specs. Most moves scale with both weapons (only a few situational ones do not), so weapon dps is expected to be a very strong stat.

Stat enhancements

Enchants

[table]Slot | Enchant | Tradeskill alternative | extra

Head | Arcanums are being deprecated | |

Shoulder | inv_inscription_runescrolloffortitude_yellow.gif Greater Tiger Claw Inscription | inv_misc_mastersinscription.gif Secret Tiger Claw Inscription | 200agi and 100crit

Back | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Superior Critical Strike or spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Accuracy| inv_misc_thread_01.gif Swordguard Embroidery | 180crit or 180hit

Chest | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Glorious Stats | | 80stats

Wrist | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Greater Agility or spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Mastery| item_socketedbracer.gif Socket Bracer, inv_misc_pelt_13.gif Fur Lining - Agility | 170agi or 170mast

Hands | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Greater Haste, spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Superior Expertise or spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Superior Mastery | inv_misc_addsocketglove.gif Socket Gloves, trade_engineering.gif Synapse Springs | 170haste, 170exp or 170mast

Waist | trade_blacksmithing.gif Living Steel Buckle | |

Legs | inv_misc_monsterscales_14.gif Shadowleather Leg Armor | inv_misc_cataclysmarmorkit_12.gif Primal Leg Reinforcements | 285agi and 165crit

Feet | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Greater Haste or spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Greater Precision| | 175haste or 175hit

Feet (with increased speed) | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Blurred Speed or spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Pandaren's Step| | 140agi or 140mast

Rings | | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Greater Agility |

Weapons | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Dancing Steel, spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Windsong or spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Elemental Force | | Landslide, Hurricane and Avalanche 2.0

[/table]

Gems

There's a big change for gems in MoP: secondary stats come in double the amount of primary stats; stamina comes in 3/4 the amount of a secondary stat. This means that we might be socketing for the bonus a lot more frequently (we'll know once stat weights are studied). I'll be linking to perfect uncommon cuts since they are budgeted the same as rare cuts: inv_misc_gem_x4_rare_cut_red.gif Delicate Primordial Ruby and inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_red.gif Perfect Delicate Pandarian Garnet both give 160 agility. Epic green/purple/orange gems are already in the database (inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_cut_purple.gif Glinting Zyanite) but the way to obtain them is not clear yet. Note that, tipicaly, only the gems in the first column are of interest to agility classes, the rest may be useful if stat weights for secondary stats hover around 0.5AEP.

[table] | 80 Agility | 160 Expertise | 160 Haste | 160 Mastery | 160 Critical Strike | 160 Hit

80 Agility | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_red.gif P. Delicate Pandarian Garnet

160 Expertise | | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_red.gif P. Precise Pandarian Garnet

160 Haste | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_orange.gif P. Deft Tiger Opal | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_orange.gif P. Wicked Tiger Opal | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_yellow.gif P. Quick Sunstone

160 Mastery | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_orange.gif P. Adept Tiger Opal | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_orange.gif P. Keen Tiger Opal | | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_yellow.gif P. Fractured Sunstone

160 Critical Strike | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_orange.gif P. Deadly Tiger Opal | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_orange.gif P. Crafty Tiger Opal | | | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_yellow.gif P. Smooth Sunstone

160 Hit | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_purple.gif P. Glinting Roguestone | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_purple.gif P. Accurate Roguestone | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_green.gif P. Lightning Alexandrite | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_green.gif P. Sensei's Alexandrite | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_green.gif P. Piercing Alexandrite | inv_misc_gem_x4_uncommon_perfectcut_blue.gif P. Rigid Lapis Lazuli

[/table]

For the Meta slot we seem to be getting again the +3% critical effect: inv_misc_gem_x4_metagem_cut.gif Agile Primal Diamond.

As for JC-only gems, this time around we only get to equip 2 of them, instead of the usual 3, finally equalizing the strength of JC with every other crafting tradeskill: inv_jewelcrafting_dragonseye05.gif Delicate Serpent's Eye.

Consumables

[table]300agi (food) | inv_misc_food_meat_cooked_08.gif Sea Mist Rice Noodles*

275agi (food) | inv_misc_food_meat_cooked_02.gif Great Pandaren Banquet**, inv_misc_food_meat_cooked_02.gif Pandaren Banquet**, inv_misc_food_meat_cooked_08.gif Valley Stir Fry, inv_misc_food_168_ricecake01.gif Chao Cookies

250agi (food) | inv_misc_food_meat_cooked_08.gif Sauteed Carrots

1000agi (flask) | trade_alchemy_potione3.gif Flask of Spring Blossoms

4000agi (potion) | trade_alchemy_potiond6.gif Virmen's Bite

[/table]

(*): Agility food is cooked with the Wok Specialization. As of current beta, this is the only way to get top tier food (+300).

(**): The strength of the banquets (250 or 275) is based on the cooking spec that crafted it; windwalker monks will get 275agi from a inv_misc_food_meat_cooked_02.gif (Great) Banquet of the Wok. For more info visit El's Extreme Anglin'

Professions

Most crafting tradeskills grant 320 extra agility with the exception of Tailoring (the cape enchant might be a close equivalent), Leatherworking (330 extra agility) and engineering (~490 average agi). Gathering ones, as usual, provide a boost in secondary stats. Alchemist's Flask doesn't show the propper tooltip and engineering might have the glove enchant nerfed at some point.

[table]Engineering | trade_engineering.gif Synapse Springs | ~490agi

Leatherworking | inv_misc_pelt_13.gif Fur Lining - Agility and cheaper leg enchant | 330agi

Alchemy | inv_misc_endlesspotion.gif Alchemist's Flask and inv_potion_112.gif Mixology | 320(?)agi

Blacksmithing | Delicate Primordial Ruby (x2) | 320agi

Jewelcrafting | inv_jewelcrafting_dragonseye05.gif Delicate Serpent's Eye (x2) | 320agi

Enchanting | spell_holy_greaterheal.gif Enchant Ring - Greater Agility (x2) | 320agi

Inscription | inv_misc_mastersinscription.gif Secret Tiger Claw Inscription | 320agi

Tailoring | inv_misc_thread_01.gif Swordguard Embroidery | 8000ap proc

Herbalism | spell_nature_wispsplodegreen.gif Lifeblood | ~320haste

Skinning | inv_misc_organ_01.gif Master of Anatomy | 320crit

Mining | ability_golemthunderclap.gif Toughness | 480sta

Cooking | |

Fishing | |

First Aid | |

Archaeology | |

[/table]

Talents and glyphs

With the next MoP xpack, talents will no longer be tied to specs. As a windwalker, choosing talents and glyphs will be a matter of raid utility as they're largely unrelated to enhancing damage output.

Talents

[table]15 | ability_monk_quipunch.jpg | Celerity | ability_mount_whitetiger.jpg | Tiger's Lust | ability_monk_standingkick.jpg | Momentum

30 | ability_monk_chiwave.jpg | Chi Wave | ability_monk_forcesphere.jpg | Zen Sphere | spell_arcane_arcanetorrent.jpg | Chi Burst

45 | ability_monk_powerstrikes.jpg | Power Strikes | ability_monk_ascension.jpg | Ascension | ability_monk_chibrew.jpg | Chi Brew

60 | ability_monk_deadlyreach.jpg | Deadly Reach | ability_monk_chargingoxwave.jpg | Charging Ox Wave | ability_monk_legsweep.jpg | Leg Sweep

75 | ability_monk_jasmineforcetea.jpg | Healing Elixirs | ability_monk_dampenharm.jpg | Dampen Harm | spell_arcane_massdispel.jpg | Diffuse Magic

90 | ability_monk_rushingjadewind.jpg | Rushing Jade Wind | ability_monk_summontigerstatue.jpg | Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger | ability_monk_quitornado.jpg | Chi Torpedo

[/table]

Older talents and datamined abilities that may replace the mistery talents:

inv_misc_questionmark.gif Mystery Talent

spell_priest_chakra.gif Ring of Peace

inv_enchant_voidsphere.gif Death Cocoon

These are the talent tiers related to dps:

-Level 30 (hibrid heal/damage/defense finishers):

It's been stated by the devs that they're not intended to be used in normal combat cycles. Zen sphere is reported to be extremely strong, but an eventual nerf is expected.

-Level 45 (resources):

Both Chi Brew and Power Strikes provide a boost of chi. Power strikes offers more chi regen (up to 0.05chi/s) than Chi Brew (up to ~0.044chi/s) but lacks its burst-on-demand aspect.

As for Ascension, in patchwerk-esque fights, managing a larger resource pool only matters in two scenarions: one, when pooling has any kind of effect in the cycle, or two, if capping in some resource is unavoidable: non of the two happen in current windwalker cycles. A case for fights where some kind of very small burst in waves of ~20s is needed can be made for Ascension, but that's about it: it'd allow the use of one extra Palm when finisher chaining.

-Level 90: every option leads to dps in one or another way. At the moment we don't have final numbers to judge any of the three, but it appears as Xuen woudl be the go-to talent for single target.

Glyphs

[table]inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Spinning Crane Kick | You move at full speed while channeling Spinning Crane Kick.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Afterlife | Increases the chance to summon a Healing Sphere when you kill an enemy while gaining experience or honor by 25%.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Touch of Death | Your Touch of Death no longer has a Chi cost, but the cooldown is increased by 2 minutes.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Zen Meditation | You can now channel Zen Meditation while moving.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Transcendence | Increases the range of your Transcendence: Transfer spell by 10 yards.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Enduring Healing Sphere | Increases the duration of your Healing Spheres by 3 minutes.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Fortifying Brew | Your Fortifying Brew reduces damage taken by an additional 5%, but increases your health by 10% rather than 20%.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Retreat | When you Roll or Chi Torpedo, all threat is temporarily reduced for 10 sec.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Stoneskin | When you use Fortifying Brew, all bleed damage taken is reduced by 20% while active.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Path of Blossoms | Increases the number of Fire Blossoms you create by 1.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Crackling Jade Lightning | [...] knocks the target back a further distance, and [...] increases the damage the target takes from your Crackling Jade Lightning by 25% for 8 sec.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Touch of Karma | Your Touch of Karma now has a 20 yard range.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Fists of Fury | When channeling Fists of Fury, your parry chance is increased by 100%.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Sparring | While Sparring, you also have a 5% chance to also Deflect spells from attackers in front of you, stacking up to 3 times.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Spinning Fire Blossom | Your Spinning Fire Blossom requires an enemy target rather than traveling in front of you, but is no longer capable of rooting targets.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Flying Serpent Kick | Your Flying Serpent Kick automatically ends when you fly into an enemy, triggering the area of effect damage and snare.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Rising Tiger Kick | Your Rising Sun Kick's visual is altered to the color of the White Tiger.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Spirit Roll | You can cast Roll while dead as a spirit.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Crackling Tiger Lightning | Your Crackling Jade Lightning visual is altered to the color of the White Tiger celestial.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Fighting Pose | Your spirit now appears in a fighting pose when using Transcendence.

inv_glyph_minormonk..gif Glyph of Zen Posture | Rather than sitting on the ground, you hover in meditative state.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Jab | You always will attack with hands and fist with Jab, even with non-fist weapons equipped.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Water Roll | You can Roll over water.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Honor | You honorably bow after each successful Touch of Death.

inv_glyph_minormonk.gif Glyph of Zen Flight | Teaches you the spell Zen Flight. ability_druid_flightform.gif Zen Flight: You fly through the air at a quick speed on a meditative cloud.

[/table]

The damage-related glyphs for windwalkers are few: Glyph of Touch of Karma doesn't add any damage component to it but may favor its use in, for instane, fights with multiple units; Touch of Death, and Crackling Jade Shock (only non-boss units) may see some situational use too.

Hereinafter a wide variety of monk glyphs that have no bearing on windwakers.

[table]inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Expel Harm | Increases the range of your Expel Harm by 10 yards.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Surging Mist | Your Surging Mist no longer requires a target, and instead heals the lowest health target within 40 yards.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Breath of Fire | When you use Breath of Fire on targets afflicted with your Dizzying Haze, they become Disoriented for 3 sec.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Clash | Increases the range of your Clash ability by 10 yards.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Guard | Increases the amount your Guard absorbs by 10%, but your Guard can only absorb magical damage.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Mana Tea | Your Mana Tea is instant instead of channeled and consumes two stacks when used, but causes a 10 sec cooldown.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Renewing Mist | Your Renewing Mist travels to the furthest injured target within 40 yards rather than the closest injured target within 20 yards.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Life Cocoon | Life Cocoon can now be cast while stunned.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Uplift | Your Uplift no longer costs Chi, but instead costs 6% Mana instead.

inv_glyph_majormonk.gif Glyph of Leer of the Ox | Teaches you the spell ability_monk_leeroftheox.gif Leer of the Ox.

[/table]

Mechanics

Here I'll keep logging the info we have on mechancis and spells of particular interest, as well as some basic math to assess the value of them.

Strike formulae and normalization

For starters, no monk strike has a bonus damage: a standard formula reads as 'deals X% weapon damage plus Y' while all monk strike scale only from weapon damage (or dps, really, but we'll get to that in a second), so a monk strike formula is basicly 'X% weapon dps'. Now, that weapon damage factor is -usually- the normalized weapon damage but monks don't normalize weapons in the same fashion (see that weapon_dps = weapon_damage / weapon_speed):

[table] non normalized weapon damage (a weapon swing) | weapon_speed * weapon_dps + weapon_speed * ap / 14)

normalized weapon damage | weapon_speed * weapon_dps + norm_speed * AP / 14

monk 'normalized' weapon damage | weapon_dps + AP / 14

[/table]

I don't know the full reasoning behind this, but it steams from the fact that monk strikes can be performed with either a 2h or with both 1h when dual-weilding (whereas most other classes spells can do one of the two, or strike with the mh only, be it a 1h or a 2h). In fact the whole formula for a strike goes like [X% * dw_mod * (mh_dps + oh_dps / 2 + AP /14)] where the dw_mod is 0.898882 when dual-weilding and 1.00 when using a 2h.

Strike efficiency

Chi burners:

[table] name | abbreviation | chi cost | mod | dpc

Tiger Palm | TP | 1 | 3 | 3.00 * mods

Blackout Kick | BOK | 2 | 8 (+ 1.6) | 4.80 * mods

Rising Sun Kick | RSK | 2 | 14.4 | 7.20 * mods

Fists of Fury | FoF | 3 | 5 * 5 - 1 * 4 | <7.00 * mods

[/table]

mods = (1.2) * dw_mod * (weapon_dps + AP / 14) * armor_reduction * raid_modifiers

A couple words on the derivation of FoF: since it disables AA, its value in a cycle is a bit lower than its straight damage compared to other spells; that's why I'm listing the 'adjusted dpc'. If we consider the damage of AA as 1weapon_dps per sec, the damage of FoF would be 5 rounds of FoF (5 * 5weapon_dps) minus 4 seconds of AA (4weapon_dps) for a total of 21weapon_dps. In adition to that, a ww monk won't be proccing Tiger Strikes during the channel, but that derivation is a bit more tricky.

Chi builders:

Expel Harm produces [3.15 * mods] damage plus 2chi.

Jab produces [1.5 * mods + 0.11TP + .11BOK] damage plus 2chi. Its damage adds adds up to [(1.5 + 0.11 * 3 + 0.11 * 9.6) * mods] or [2.886 * mods] damage plus 2chi (or [2.71 * mods] if the BOK is performed from the front).

It seems like Expel Harm is more efficient than Jab, but this is likely to change as we aquire more mastery rating.

Spell behaviour

Tiger Strikes:

It's a two-roll yellow strike that simply shows up in white text in-game.

Once procced, you get 4 charges (next 4 swings), but you also get a TS strike from the swing that generated it for a grand total of 5.

Both the proc and the 'charges' procs off of white swings (misses and the like included). It doesn't seem to have an icd. It can't proc off of itself.

The proc rate is not yet confirmed: latest blue on the matter stated that TS is a balance knob for dw/2h; however, I haven't found yet any evidence suggesting the proc rate to be any different than 10%. Hamlet proposed using the old [1 - (1 - p) ^ N] to come up with the uptime on it (for 2h at least). I imagine the proc rate could be derived in the same fashion: rate = 1 - (1 - uptime) ^ (1 / 4); however, the logs I've been checking have too much variance for me to pin it down (iteration through beta builds is a huge factor here).

Combo Breaker:

It only procs off of Jab: not Expel Harm nor Spinning Crane Kick.

Both TP/BOK procs are independent: you can get one or the other or both from the same Jab.

Tier 45 talents:

Power Strikes: 1 chi every 20s produce 0.050 chi/s.

Chi Brew: 4 chi every 90s produce 0.044 chi/s.

Ascension only matters for resource pooling, which is not an issue in straight up fights.

Tigereye Brew:

At 8energy per second regen, a ww monk can cast a Jab every 5s, thus generating 0.4chi/s (plus 0.05 from Power Strikes). A fully stacked Tigereye takes 100s to build (88.89 with Power Strikes).

Fists of fury:

Point blank channel; breaks when moving and disables AA.

5 assaults or rounds: the one when starting the channel and one each second for 4s after that.

Can proc melee enchants while channeling.

Blackout Kick dot

According to the devs it rolls like ignite: if used when a previous dot is up, the damage is recombined in a new dot; thusly, at the end of a fight (overkill and rounding aside) it should deal exactly 20% of the damage of all the BOK strikes.

It's unclear to me, though, how will crit affect this: I would imagine it can doube dip on crit (a crit tick from a crit BOK benefits from the 2x modifier twice) so some testing is due to pin this down. The mechanic is a bit bugged now, dealing considerabl less overall damage than it should do, so I'd wait until next build to test this.

Some personal notes:

The cycle seems to feel fuid enough. However, it's worth pointing out that one of the reasons many people were interested in the class was the dark/light chi resources. Now that that is gone, the spec sounds a lot like a simplified rogue. The possibility to pool on chi is an interesting twist but the strength of the idea is diluted in that the burst on demand it could offer is offset by the impossibility to chain more than 2 strong finishers.

I would also like to note that all 3 basic finishers are instant damage without anything to differentiate them or to track a dot or a self-buff; while it may fit with the street fighter kind of a theme monks have going on, I find this lack as a very bland feature of the class. Now, we all know many things will change, but at first glance the spec lacks some complexities that make other classes fun to play.

Finally, the lack of procs, like double chi gains, or energy regen increases, or cooldown resets, or any other weird interaction between abilities is notable. The mastery proc is the only proc that expects and action from the players (using a finisher that is); Tiger strikes is an un-interesting proc, being passive and offering no way to predict, force, stack with others or, in short, interact in any way with it. As it is now, to me it feels like we're still missing a relatively big piece in the puzzle.

Change log:

Thread started.

Reworked some wowhead links and deleted mentions to the older thread as the insight in that one is largely reposted here.

Talents and glyphs included.

Layout changed; some sections may seem out of proportion, but I expect them to change and grow in the future. Included some icons.

Updated to build 15508.

Updated info on Combo Breaker, Rising Sun Kick and Flying Serpent Kick at several points.

Updated to build 15544: Blackout Kick is now cheaper and has no cd nor hp requirement; it also puts a dot when below 50%. New talent 'Power Strikes'.

Jab now produces 2chi; updated references and combat cycle. Some talents have swaped tiers and some are gone.

Updated combat cycle to reflect the finisher priorities studied in the thread.

Updated to build 15589: new talents; Blackout's dot is now 6'', Muscle Memory has been reworked and the statue's on-click is gone.

Updated to build 15640: many talents changes and new glyphs; Tigereye Brew reworked; blackout's cost re-upped to 2chi; detox no longer dispels bleeds; tiger statue is replaced with Invoke Xuen.

Updated to build 15650: talent changes; windwalkers get the 'dual-wield' passive (tanks and healers don't?); Invoke Xuen is apparently a talent now.

Deleted the Statue section. Included some enchants/gems (will keep updating it now and then).

Updated to build 15657: Muscle Memory has been baked into Tiger Stance.

Updated to build 15662: Chi Wave is now available to all specs as a talent.

Updated to build 15668: Palm reworked: buffs with stacking armor ignore regardless of hp threshold. RSK applies the healing debuff. Tigereye's effect doubled (now ww exclusive).

Linked most (when possible) glyphs to the glyph item. Updated several icons: blame wowhead if the tooltips are not yet updated.

Updated to build 15677: new glyphs; also: Flying Nimbus!

Updated to build 15689: Spinning Crane Kick awards 1chi.

Updated to build 15699: Blackout execute-dot is gone.

Included some notes on Blackout Kick at several points where applicable.

Updated to build 15726: Legacy of the White Tiger grants 5%crit raid buff instead of 5mast. Power Strikes severely nerfed (from 0.067 to 0.05chi/s).

Pushed build number to 15739: Not much going on for ww. Noted that enchanting the head slot is no longer possible.

Pushed build number to 15752: energy cost for raid buffs reduced.

Updated to build 15762: Blackout was significantly buffed with Combat Conditioning.

Reformat the talents section

Updated to build 15781: Strike scaling got updated. Rare cuts are back and some epic gems are in.

Updated the combat cycle section and finally changed energy regen to 8 (and every section affected by this)

Started the 'Mechanics' section.

Updated to build 15799: base energy regen went up to 13 but it's expected to be a bug. ZS still waiting for its nerf.

Updated to build 15851: energy regen back to 8.

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Reposting my conclusions on the current state of any putative model from the previous thread:

So energy per second = 10(1+haste) + 60/60

Jabs per second = EPS/40. Jab damage can be computed independently of anything else (putting aside how to deal with Muscle memory).

Chi per second = EPS/40*(total hit).

Find finisher with best damage per chi (possible capping due to cooldown as Aldriana mentioned). Finisher damage can be computed independently of anything else from the looks of it.

Free Blackout Kicks per second = EPS/40*(total hit)*(proc rate) (Flag potential Blackout Kick capping issue although seems unlikely with current numbers)

White DPS independent of everything, just have to compute Tiger Strikes uptime.

Okay, spreadsheet done. No, this has to be pretty unfinished, everything about the rotation is totally static. And I'm pretty sure it is unfinished since they've closed off L85 Monk premades for now.

Do we have AP coefficients on any of these spells?

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Likewise reposting my thoughts from the deleted thread:

1) The rotation does indeed feel bland; it might get better if Rising Sun Kick surpasses Tiger Palm and Blackout Kick in damage per chi (which is the only relevant measure of move quality right now), but even then: with 0 haste you *can* keep up with your Chi generation just with Rising Sun Kick, so even with a lot of haste - say 20% - you'd only need to spend 1 chi every 40 seconds on other moves. Hence, to a very large extent, you're going to be alternating between Jab (or equivalent) and a single finisher, possibly using a second (different) finisher to soak up mastery procs. Not exactly the most exciting cycle they've ever designed. You'll be weaving Flying Serpent Kick and (maybe) Fists of Fury in, but its still not exactly something you have to think carefully about.

2) Expertise/Hit cap are going to be very important. Missed energy abilities refund no energy; missed chi abilities refund no chi. Hence each 1% miss chance results in 2% fewer chi moves done, which is likely to be a significant loss of damage.

3) Meditation seems really overpowered. Its Dispersion on crack, and Dispersion was already extremely useful on a number of fights in Cataclysm. I have to believe that 99% number will be dropped to something more reasonable (like, 40%) sometime before launch.

4) I have my doubts about Muscle Memory. Given that you only get 1 jab every 4 seconds baseline, its going to take something like 7 minutes to max out your stack - maybe 6 with haste. As all but the longest boss fights are shorter than that, it basically means that Monks are going to steadily get stronger over the course of every fight - in addition to having a potential execute mechanic in Blackout Kick. I'm really not sure why they're designed that way - it seems like a recipe for trouble wherein they're overpowered in long fights or underpowered in short ones. Will be interesting to see if they conclude whether that's actually a good thing or not, as it seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

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Realized the above didn't take talents into account. Let's see what we have so far: Mists of Pandaria - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

30: Ascendance doesn't accomplish anything for DPS at the moment. Cider cives 4 Chi every 90s.

90: 3 different options for new spells that each let you do X damage once every Y seconds.

No other tiers have DPS talents.

So yeah, nothing here affects the DPS rotation (aside from the straightforward bonus from Cider).

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AP is 140 + Str + Agi*2. Base stats at 85 88 Str 103 Agi.

Jab does 79-80 naked (434 AP)

Jab does 180-181 with 996 AP. (defensive stance). So looking like about 0.18 on Jab (am I reinventing the wheel here? I don't know there's a well-known convention for what the coefficient would be).

Tiger Palm does 236 @ 434AP w/50% bonus.

537 @996AP. Coeff--0.5356, or 0.357 before the bonus.

Blackout Kick: 555, 1263, for 1.26.

562

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Well, I think the first thing to check would be if (and how) moves scales with weapon damage - I assume they do *somehow*, and it would presumably give you the AP scaling of the move as well based on the normalization speed of the weapon you're using.

Edit: Also, what target was that on? We'll need to factor in armor mitigation to get actual coefficients.

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Yeah, I figured there was something like that. This was trivial to test though since there's no damage range unarmed and I could at least get AP scaling right away. Weapon damage is harder since I only had one weapon and there's a range (and the only L85 Monk I have access to is trapped in this horrible place where the only target dummies are these weird things that die in one hit).

I see though. So you're saying my observed coefficients from unarmed attacks might not mean anything since the coefficient changes based on weapon type (up to normalization speed?).

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Well, the unarmed attacks aren't necessarily meaningless, although I don't remember off the top of my head what the base damage and normalization speed of an unarmed attack is. I want to say its something like 1-2 damage and 2.4 speed (same as 1H non-daggers), but 1) I'm not certain about that, and 2) those produce numbers 4.75% lower than what you're seeing even before we account for armor. So either I'm wrong about base damage, or Jab does more than 100% weapon damage, or its factoring in your OH weapon damage as well despite the fact you're not wielding one, or... something. We just don't have enough information yet.

There's also the fact that, if you believe wowhead, your Jab should be doing a baseline 139.4 damage just by virtue of your level, and its clearly not. I suspect we're going to need to do testing 1) over a wider range of AP values and 2) with an assortment of weapons with better-understood properties before we can really draw many conclusions about the exact formulas for the abilities. And probably against targets with better understood armor properties.

Are there by chance any critters around you can kill? Rats in the deeprun tram were always a good way to get a good estimate of the unmitigated damage of an attack.

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I'm pretty sure the unarmed attacks had 2.0 speed (although not sure if normalization obeyed that).

The 139 damage is what the tooltip read in-game. And since wowhead can only see what's in the tooltips, that probably doesn't mean too much.

I did check that the damage values I posted continued linearly to some higher values of AP.

I'll see if I can find anything more tomorrow or sometime soon; the account with the 85 Monk isn't mine.

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Few more things:

--I think the training targets have 0 armor, just judging by unarmed white attacks.

--Also, armed white attacks with the staff looked to scale perfectly at AP/14*3.3, also seemingly indicating 0 armor.

--I didn't put enough time in for a perfect damage range on Jab, but probably got close. It looked like adding in the AP from one Agi item was adding something very close to AP/14*3.3 damage. The Jab itself was doing something on the order of 75% of a white attack.

This isn't quite as mushy as it sounds, i.e. I know how to test spellpower coefficients properly, just a pain to get an exact damage range without a proper dummy.

Tell me if this is correct as far as how melee attacks usually work:

(WD + AP/14*N)*C

for Weapon Damage (listed range on weapon), Attack Power, Normalized speed, spell-specific Coefficient. Or is it:

(WD*C) + AP/14*N.

Like you say this will be more worth our time when there's more to test with, but it was good for me to spend a little bit remembering how melee attacks work in the first place. And if anyone felts like putting in enough swings to nail down an exact (or nearly-exact) damage range on some things I think you could deduce a lot even from one weapon.

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AP is usually tied with any weapon modifier; also, more often than not, these formulae come with two modifiers, the damage bonus and the percentage coefficient: (WD + AP * N / 14 + bonus_damage) * C

Also note that, if anyone is testing this, white swings are not normalized: white_damage = weapon_speed * (weapon_dps + AP / 14)

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To be clear: windwalker mastery doesn't proc one proc that you can spend on either tiger palm or blackout kick.

The way it works on beta is that each jab has a (1.4 * mastery)% chance to proc Combo Breaker: Tiger Palm (making your next tiger palm free) and an independant (1.4 * mastery)% chance to proc Combo Breaker: Blackout Kick (making blackout kick free and usable regardless of health). Both can proc off the same jab.

The basic rotation priority seems to be:

Rising Sun Kick on cooldown

Spend mastery procs. Order doesn't really matter as long as you use procs before you jab again, but slight priority to blackout kick as it does more damage.

Spend excess chi, saving 2 for Rising Sun Kick, unless you're going to cap on energy and not cap on chi, in which case

Jab, unless you're going to cap on chi.

The only real divergance from this would be if you have jinyu cider, which you would probably pop after you hit 0 chi after a rising sun kick or whatever.

For comparison: I don't have logs or anything, but anecdotally on the beta with a 378 geared premade monk on a 85 target dummy:

Rising sun kick hits for ~19k each * 2.3

Blackout kick hits for 35-40k.

Tiger palm hits for ~20k. (I suspect that the additional damage over 50% isn't actually applying on the target dummies, even though they're 100%; I can't prove this, however. I'd expect ~30k above 50%.)

Jab hits for roughly 6k. After extended combat, regular 12k crits.

This is with chattering claw mh/trickster's edge oh, and getting similar numbers with a 378 staff.

Again, I don't have empirical numbers, but that should give you an idea of the relative strength of the abilities.

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Regarding weapon choice, there are only two factors that might, in my opinion, make us chose one over the other (2H vs DW) : the stats and the way auto-attacks hit due to Tiger Strikes and Way of the Monk.

The stats will be presumably in favor of the 2H.

About the auto-attack, I gave a shot at making a spreadsheet to see the DPS of a 2H and two 1H at level 85.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag44WbH1QakPdE1YaUpfMnhyNllncWlPbmtmQnlkS0E

For the moment, it has several flaws but I hope to solve them soon :

• no expertise taken in account (basically, the attacks either miss or land, due to the "Hit" setting ; no dodge and parry)

• no glances

• Tiger Fury not simulated as I have some difficulty to formalize an average impact of this spell.

Don't hesitate to comment it, point out any mistake or help me about the flaws mentionned above.

... And keep in mind this is my first SS. :shobon:

(Also, sorry if my english isn't perfect. ^^ I tried my best.)

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Don't hesitate to comment it, point out any mistake or help me about the flaws mentionned above.

... And keep in mind this is my first SS. :shobon:

You're currently modeling DW miss chance as 27% + 8% base for 35% miss total. I'm pretty sure the DW miss rate in the mid-20s (I don't remember what the exact most current rate is) replaces the 8% instead of adding to it. This will significantly improve DW in your comparison.

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Thanks, done !

We can see that DW and 2H are pretty similar.

Tiger Fury is NYI, though, so I think it'd be to early to draw any conclusion. :)

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Here's how I would model Tiger Strikes:

On a given melee swing, that swing will benefit from TS if any of the prior 4 swings procced it. If the proc rate is a constant 10%, that chance is simply (1 - 0.9^4) = 34.4%. Add that many extra auto-attacks and scale down average swing time correspondingly. (Might have to test the properties of the extra swings later and adjust accordingly, i.e. seeing what all they can proc).

That should be a solid model for 2H. DW is tricker--I'll try getting into it more later--but the concept should apply.

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Another monk and I were looking at parses on a target dummy using comparable ilevel weapons (I believe he was using ilevel 16 white weapons). He also removed all gear, so base stats with no hit rating. The two ~5 minute logs (1 DW, 1 2H) both had very similar Tiger Strikes uptimes.

2H: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

DW: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I haven't had a chance to run my own logs yet or to really dissect these much further than confirming the similar damage between special attacks and the expected difference in white damage (with DW > 2H).

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I do agree that the spec feels unfinished, but if the monk were to go live as it stands right now, I think this thread would be missing an important point.

Namely, the tiger statue buff lasts 6 seconds with 2 charges per statue. A 15% buff to 2 players for 12 seconds is probably worth the ~1.7 second cast time if all you're missing is auto attacks. So assuming you've got someone in your raid capaple of clicking the statue every 6 seconds ad nauseum, the proper rotation depends on buying yourself time to recast your tiger every twelve seconds without capping energy (or chi during the subsequent energy dump).

With that said, this will probably not be how it works live. You'd be buffing your best DPS by a straight 15% the entire fight....that's possible currently with 5 rogues and a lot of coordination, but 1 monk doing that would almost certainly be too good. I believe there is room here for something interesting, however. Maybe 5% with 15 second duration would be more reasonable, not to mention less ridiculous to keep up.

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From the premades weapons given to us, I think it is safe to assume they will use slow/slow for DW. I'm not big on the numbers, but it might benefit if somebody gets their hands on another combo for weapon speeds to rule out another being better?

While they use energy, my main is a DK and I find it to be quite a lot alike. I tried test dummy with mastery>haste and found the mastery procs up quite a bit and usually both popping at the same time.

It may be due to my dk history but I didn't seem to find it like a rogue much. I found myself spending chi more than energy in a sense that I was having so many procs that I was more trying to keep energy from capping while using my chi at the same time. This rarely caused any downtime. I'll try to get some WoL up at some point this weekend. Ill be going for haste>mastery tonight and see how it goes.

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Can OH weapon attacks proc Tiger's Strikes or is it purely MH only? Nothing has really been said on this question, and I think it's an important one.

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It all boils down to having a double resource system: rogues spend 'bar-resources' to gain 'round-resources' while death knights spend 'round-resources' to gain 'bar-resources'; however, regardless of what you spend on what, both rogues and death knights (and monks in the future) design their cycles around the expenditure of 'round-resources' while avoiding capping on the 'bar-resource' through 'energy management' or 'runic dumps'. There's one thing that puts monks closer to rogues than to death knights though: a dk can keep pushing buttons without ever using runic power (admitedly nerfing their damage to the ground), whereras rogues (and monks) need to perform energy moves to keep doing stuff.

After all, historicaly, death knights have been compared to rogues too, so I found it appropriate to go back to basics (not to mention that, while I've played every melee spec, I main a rogue). I'm fully confident that monks have their own thing going on, and will achieve a different feeling than that of the older classes.

On another unrelated topic, I've updated the OP to the next build. I thought about using dashed-out text or colours to denote changes; however, changes and bits of info come in way too fast for it to make sense, so I'll be noting in the 'change log' the most interersting or discussion worthy topics. For instance, I find midly interesting the new dot on Blackout Kick which may be a pvp nerf on burst but also adds a tiny little bit of depth to the cycle; the +damage on Rising Sun Kick is more of a no-brainer debuff though. We got a new talent (suposedly for the lvl30 tier) that offers some of the intricacies we're used to see in other classes, and opens some questions: can the Chi Spheres be used by other monks? can they be scattered around the room so that when burst is needed the monk can run around and regain full chi?. Note that devs added some notes (in the shape of a spell) that states that the windwalker cycle is a work in progress.

Can OH weapon attacks proc Tiger's Strikes or is it purely MH only? Nothing has really been said on this question, and I think it's an important one.

From the logs posted above, and the expectancies we have on its uptime, yes it can proc from either hand. Note that the DW log actually points to two different spell IDs though. I can think of a couple reasons why that might be: it could be that the proc from each hand only benefits that hand; however, that doesn't seem to be the case so, at the moment, I'm not sure why are there two different spells.

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Regarding weapon choice, there are only two factors that might, in my opinion, make us chose one over the other (2H vs DW) : the stats and the way auto-attacks hit due to Tiger Strikes and Way of the Monk.

The stats will be presumably in favor of the 2H.

About the auto-attack, I gave a shot at making a spreadsheet to see the DPS of a 2H and two 1H at level 85.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag44WbH1QakPdE1YaUpfMnhyNllncWlPbmtmQnlkS0E

For the moment, it has several flaws but I hope to solve them soon :

• no expertise taken in account (basically, the attacks either miss or land, due to the "Hit" setting ; no dodge and parry)

• no glances

• Tiger Fury not simulated as I have some difficulty to formalize an average impact of this spell.

Don't hesitate to comment it, point out any mistake or help me about the flaws mentionned above.

... And keep in mind this is my first SS. :shobon:

(Also, sorry if my english isn't perfect. ^^ I tried my best.)

To be honest that spreadsheet is fairly useless if you don't take into account AP at all since DW scales better with AP than 2h does.

I cannot really check if those are the exact values in MoP right now but I'll just use the following values (remember: some of these changed in MoP) from the top of my head:

Miss: 7.5%

Dodge: 7.5%

Glancings: 24% of doing only 75% damage

DW Pentalty: 19% Miss

OH damage: 50%

Single Roll

Thus in non-edge cases you get the following formulae for auto-attack DPS:

2h: (WDPS+AP/14)*0.24*0.75+(WDPS+AP/14)*max((0.61+min(0.075,Hit)+min(0.075,Exp)-Crit),0)+2*(WDPS+AP/14)*min(Crit,0.61+min(0.075,Hit)+min(0.075,Hit))

1h: (WDPS+AP/14)*0.24*0.75*1.5+(WDPS+AP/14)*max((0.42+min(0.265,Hit)+min(0.075,Exp)-Crit),0)*1.5+2*(WDPS+AP/14)*min(Crit,0.42+min(0.265,Hit)+min(0.075,Exp))*1.5

Since you can already see there's a lot of variables in there I'll also create a spreadsheet on it. I'm going to edit it in as soon as I'm finished.

Edit:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjCj--Khd88tdE42UE9VV2ZFSnpSeU5ENWtzdXRfeHc#gid=0

Doesn't include Tiger Strikes yet since such procs usually require circular calculations and an inclusion of bug/latency effect estimation which we simply don't have so far.

Since hit would be the only deciding factor on its % damage increase here (assuming misses cannot proc it), you're probably best off simply simulating its effect for different hit values and including those results in the spreadsheet then.

Doesn't include the 40% damage/attack speed bonuses either since they currently equal each other when it comes to overall DPS so the relative results would be equal no matter if you included them or not. I'll keep it like that for as long as that's the case since it allows the spreadsheet to stay class-independant to some degree.

By the way, the values which are in the spreadsheet baseline are roughly those of a full BiS Rogue on live servers excluding any Rogue-specific bonuses when going for haste mainly. Weapon DPS used are those of Madness HC on MoP beta server right now.

However, as you can clearly see, unless Tiger Strikes has a significant effect on weapon type balance (unlikely) or character screen stats are really low compared to your weapon DPS, you'll usually be better off DWing as it has always been in the past for classes who could do either. If you compare 2h and DW scaling, 2h benefits more from upgrading your weapon DPS while DW benefits more from upgrading any of your stats.

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Some interesting changes of note not listed on MMO Champ patch notes:

Abilities:

  1. Blackout Kick does less damage than Tiger strike to go along with its reduction in Chi cost. It can be used regardless of health, and has no cooldown.
  2. Rising Sun Kick no longer has a 30% chance to award an extra attack, now increases damage take by all enemies within 8 yards by 10% for YOUR abilities.
  3. Charging Ox Wave has a 1 minute cooldown.
  4. Jab now awards TWO Chi instead of one. Still costs 40 energy.

Talents:

  1. Celerity reduces the cooldown on roll and Chi Torpedo by 5 seconds.
  2. Momentum increases your movement speed by 25%, stacks twice. (note, says 30% on tooltip, buff is actually 25%)
  3. Power Strikes: Tier 2, Jab awards 1 extra Chi, 15 second cooldown. (note, 3 chi per jab)

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What I'm seeing regarding abilities right now:

First off, damage still doesn't seem to be dependant on weapon type (same ability for DW and 2h for all abilities).

Abilities also have some varying damage ranges so I'll just use the average of what I observed.

Chi Generators

Jab/Club/etc.: ~60% of AP as damage, generates 2 Chi, costs 40 Energy

Chi Spenders

Rising Sun Kick: ~240% of AP as (single target) damage, increases damage taken by your abilities in an AoE around you by 10% for 15 sec., 8 sec. cooldown, costs 2 Chi

Tiger Palm: ~120% of AP as damage, does ~50% more damage against targets >50%, costs 1 Chi

Blackout Kick: ~120% of AP as damage, does 3 ticks with ~24% of AP as damage over 8 sec. against targets <50%, costs 1 Chi

Spinning Crane Kick: ~180% of AP as AoE damage over 3 seconds, costs 1 Chi

Fists of Fury: ~700% of AP as frontal AoE damage over 4 seconds, disables auto attack while channeling, 45 sec. cooldown, costs 3 Chi

Some napkin maths based on these values assuming 20% (times two different procs) proc chance for mastery and an average of 150% AP as damage per mastery proc and no haste:

Fists of Fury

Jabs required: 1.5

Mastery procs: 0.6

> Time spent on cycle: 4+1.5+0.6=6.1 seconds

> Energy balance of cycle: 10/second-60/6.1 seconds= +0.164/second => Energy-positive

% of AP as DPS: 700%+1.5*60%+0.6*150%=880%/6.1 seconds=144.26% of AP as DPS MINUS 65.6% of auto-attack DPS

Rising Sun Kick

Jabs required: 1

Mastery procs: 0.4

> Time spent on cycle: 2.4 seconds

> Energy balance of cycle: 10-40/2.4= -6.67/second => Energy-negative

% of AP as DPS: 360%/2.4 seconds=150%

% of AP as DPS accounting for Energy: 360%/4 seconds=90%

Tiger Palm (>50%)

Jabs required: 0.5

Mastery procs: 0.2

> Time spent on cycle: 1.5 seconds

> Energy balance of cycle: 10-20/1.7=-1.765/second => Energy-negative

% of AP as DPS: 240%/1.7 seconds => 141.18%

% of AP as DPS accounting for Energy: 240%/2 seconds=120%

Blackout Kick

Jabs required: 0.5

Mastery procs: 0.2

> Time spent on cycle: 1.5 seconds

> Energy balance of cycle: 10-20/1.7=-1.765/second => Energy-negative

% of AP as DPS: 180(up to 252)%/1.7 seconds => 105.88(up to 148.24)%

% of AP as DPS accounting for Energy: 180(up to 252)%/2 seconds=90(up to 126)%

Going by that the optimal priority will most likely look like this:

Only use Fists of Fury for AoE (a 20% ability DPS increase will most likely not make up for a loss of 65.6% of auto attack DPS during that time). Use Spinning Crane Kick for AoE whenever Fists of Fury is on cooldown - its 60%/second while being Energy neutral is way too low to ever use it single target.

For single target only keep the Rising Sun Kick debuff up in normal phases and keep it on cooldown in high Energy regen phases (e.g. during Bloodlust or Energizing Brew) or when at high haste/mastery levels.

Otherwise simply use Jab + Tiger Palm + any mastery procs >50% and Jab + Blackout Kick + any mastery procs <50%.

While there are less GCD gaps now (and at high haste and mastery levels you're actually GCD capped), the rotation still doesn't seem to be any complex yet.

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