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Exemplar

[Ret 5.0 Pre-MoP] - Panda-ring to all players

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I did some checking on the gems and while I'm sure you would have changed this at some point.

Reverberating Primal Diamond

+216 Strength and 3% Increased Critical Effect

Item Level 90

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New build: Small buffs to Divine Storm (weapon damage +10%, now 6% healing with glyph) and Glyph of Exorcism is most likely a no-brainer now:

Glyph of Hammer of Wrath is now Glyph of Exorcism and now affects Exorcism.

(-10% damage for 10 secs after Exo)

I guess the HoW change is only a shift from AP to spellpower and damage values stay relatively equal.

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It's a slight buff to HoW I think: 71% AP to 161% SP, unless we get that much more AP that doesn't convert to SP at least. I can't believe the Exo glyph will make it to Live (for long) though, 10% damage reduction for 2/3 of a fight (at least) seems a bit too powerful for an optional glyph.

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It's a slight buff to HoW I think: 71% AP to 161% SP, unless we get that much more AP that doesn't convert to SP at least.

If Sword of Light remains at 50% AP -> SP, then this is indeed a slight buff to HoW.

Previous: 14,000 AP x 0.71 = 9,940

Current: 14,000 AP x (0.5 SP / 1 AP) x 1.61 = 11,270

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Looks like Hammer of Wrath got another nerf to its base damage:

Hammer of Wrath base damage has been reduced by 60%.

Damage went from (4,454 + 161% SP) to (1,838 + 161% SP)

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I was curious about how the 4pc bonus will help us pick our talents.

It seemed that the Zealotry talent was superior before much beta testing was done. But with the 4pc bonus bringing AW down, it seems we have a choice to make. We can either hold off the AW to line it up with Zealotry (2min CD from what i can see. unfortunately not in Beta), but that seems a DPS loss since the 4pc is supposed to give us more AW.

We could separate the AW and Zealotry after the first use(3 AWs would be 255s, 2 Zealotry's would be 240. So only a 15sec delay for the second Zealotry) which seems to be the best case.

OR, we could pick up the Sanctified Wrath talent, which would let us spam HoW. But with these nerf's to HoW (no HP, then the dmg nerf that just hit), would this be a DPS loss? My gut says yes(as we wouldnt be getting as many TV's) If it is a significant loss, then the talents choices arent really "interesting" as one is clearly superior.

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Nothing can be calculated this early in beta with DPS numbers; we can however, calculate the HP gains from SW, Holy Avenger, etc and relatively determine how much use each talent will be. Remember: Ret still has use of HoW under AW, as well as gaining Holy Power from HoW.

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Am I correct in assuming that as of right now the only uses for the 5 pool of holy power are:

1) Long duration fights: To provide even shorter Inquisition downtime: only use TV/DS at 5 so you are always a max of 1 HP away from refreshing Inq.

2) Short duration burst where you do not need to worry about refreshing Inq:

Say you have a 5 second window to do damage, or AOE:

5HP: TV -> CS -> TV

5HP: DS -> HOTR -> DS

Are there any other real uses?

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Are there any other real uses?

Yes, every situation benefits from the 5 HP cap. There is no CD on TV. There are CDs on all our filler abilities. By maximizing HP-generating filler usage and only using TV at 5 HP (or when no HP-generating fillers are available for use), we use fillers more often (which are worth their raw damage plus 1/3 of a TV), thus maximizing HP generation and increasing the numbers of TVs used throughout a fight. It is not solely due to "shorter Inquisition downtime" on "long duration fights. On any boss fight, you will increase the number of TVs used by preferring fillers to TV unless you're 5-capped (or all fillers are on CD and you have 3-4 HP).

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Additionally, we will get more damage in a shorter window frame for times when bosses are vulnerable for a short window, akin to Hagara. This also has PvP implications.

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As of the latest patch, exorcism cd is also reduced by sanctity of battle. Should help reduce the dps loss and smooth out the rotation in case AoW doesn't proc.

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I was curious about how the 4pc bonus will help us pick our talents.

It seemed that the Zealotry talent was superior before much beta testing was done. But with the 4pc bonus bringing AW down, it seems we have a choice to make. We can either hold off the AW to line it up with Zealotry (2min CD from what i can see. unfortunately not in Beta), but that seems a DPS loss since the 4pc is supposed to give us more AW.

We could separate the AW and Zealotry after the first use(3 AWs would be 255s, 2 Zealotry's would be 240. So only a 15sec delay for the second Zealotry) which seems to be the best case.

OR, we could pick up the Sanctified Wrath talent, which would let us spam HoW. But with these nerf's to HoW (no HP, then the dmg nerf that just hit), would this be a DPS loss? My gut says yes(as we wouldnt be getting as many TV's) If it is a significant loss, then the talents choices arent really "interesting" as one is clearly superior.

If i'm not mistaken HoW still give HP to Ret paladins.

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If i'm not mistaken HoW still give HP to Ret paladins.

Correct. Currently Hammer of Wrath still gives a charge of holy power to ret only. It was only removed for prot and holy.

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Can you guys confirm if Sanctity of Battle still affects Hammer of the Righteous as Ret?

Read somewhere that it was removed

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Can you guys confirm if Sanctity of Battle still affects Hammer of the Righteous as Ret?

Read somewhere that it was removed

It still does since it shares cd with CS.On beta my CS has the same cd as HotR.

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Some clarifications on Sanctity of Battle:

Prot: CS, Judgement, HotR, Hammer of Wrath, Consecration, Holy Wrath

Ret: CS, Judgement, HotR, Hammer of Wrath, Exorcism

Holy:CS, Judgement, HotR, Hammer of Wrath

HoW grants Holy Power and is useable under AW by Ret only.

It also appears that all Seals cause a 1 sec GCD.

Additionally, it should be noted that with Glyph of the Ascetic Crusader, our entire Rotation becomes mana-free, excluding HotR and HoW. Not that mana is an issue anyways, but it allows you to use more Mana on Support abilities instead of needing to require a bit of mana (~6%) in order to DPS.

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Some clarifications on Sanctity of Battle:

Ret: CS, Judgement, HotR, Hammer of Wrath, Exorcism

Tooltip was changed to remove HotR. Question being, was this a tooltip error (has it been added back?) or has implementation not caught up to the tooltip?

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Correct, it acts just like GAnK, with the Holy tooltip being the "Class" tooltip.

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Crusader's Zeal has been updated from (auto)attack speed to stacking Crit Buff. This is possibly an overall buff, as the Crit chance should impact all abilities, while the previous version only impacted autoattack (and thus procs based on it). However, if a buff it's a small one based on the following math.

Say an average hasted swingspeed of about 3.0 (which could be optimistic, as we're losing JotP 9% Haste). 20% chance to proc, so on average one proc per 5 swings. That's about a proc every 15 seconds. Duration of 9 seconds. Effective up-time of a single stack (3%) is 60%. So an average about 1.8% flat Crit bonus. It looks a lot more powerful in the tooltip than it would prove to be, as it's unlikely to stack. Changing it to proc on all attacks would make it more probable to be present and actually stack.

Personally don't like it. 20% RNG chance to get a buff that increases the RNG chance to do more damage. Double down on the RNG is a sucker's bet. Random proc that does not alter our "rotation" in any degree. Blizzard has generally in the past agreed that both 'Random is not fun'* and 'Passive is not fun'. Random passive is double not fun.

* Unless it can impact playstyle significantly, so that the randomness itself is the fun, such as rotation changing procs.

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I'd suspect they changed it from the AA speed to prevent Haste from double effecting Exorcism (through more AoW and SoB affecting Exorcisms eCD). Having abilities based off auto attacks to begin with is not noticeable in PvE- and less so in PvP. Most likely Blizzard will use CZ as a way to tweak PvE DPS instead of a rotation changer like AoW or Inquision.

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I saw the AAspeed version of CZ as a way to balance ret around the fact that we are the slowest hitters out there in regard to procs off trinkets or weapons.

I thought the fact that only 2 abilities of our rotation are actually weapon strikes, led them to implement CZ in the AAspeed form to increase the chance such procs would go off, without having the problem of having too much of them by making hidden strikes of SoB (and such other possible candidates) count or too litte, if you took only actual weapon strikes (as in: the whole Gurth conundrum).

edit: I tested briefly the new CZ, and it acts as described in the tooltip (at least I found no immediate bugs).

I cogitated some more on the spell, and I have to say I don't like it. Not only it is rather implicitely random, as Exemplar pointed out, it is also frustrating not to be able to time cooldowns around it.

Either you are a lucky bastard and hit that spot with 3 stacks or you don't and this will have an non-neglegible impact on performance, even if all other variables are the same.

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Do we have the ratings required for 5.0 once the new hit/exp ratings go into effect? Haven't played around with reforging on the beta at all really and was curious if anyone has found what the ratings are for just at lvl 85.

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Pursuit of Justice is working as intended on the current build:

You gain 10% speed at all times-- in addition, you gain 10% for each Holy Power, up to a maximum of 3.

0 HP: 10%

1 HP: 10% + 1*10% = 20%

2 HP: 10% + 2*10% = 30%

3 HP: 10% + 3*10% = 40%

4 HP: 10% + 3*10% = 40%

5 HP: 10% + 3*10% = 40%

These values remain consistent across the board, whether increasing to or decreasing from them.

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