Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Exemplar

[Ret 5.0 Pre-MoP] - Panda-ring to all players

475 posts in this topic

Reports on the Beta are saying that the new L90 abilities currently do not scale with mastery (which is a given for Ret, but none of the Healing spells work with Holy) or haste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any L90 able to do a fully geared vs. naked test to ensure they (L90 talent abilities) do scale with AP? I would think they do, or they'd possibly be entirely obsolesced sometime during the X-pac, but best to test. Precise scaling numbers unimportant at this juncture since they're extremely likely to change between now and live.

You can also glance at the log and see if they ever Crit. If they Crit at all it's safe to say they use our Crit rate, since they're a directly cast spell (whereas some things like weapon procs can occasionally use their own unmodifiable value). Again, I would expect they do Crit, just nice to be sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to mention that there has been a nerf to our mastery on beta. Instead of providing 2.2% holy damage for each point in mastery, it's only 1% per. So... The bonus is equal to your mastery.

Not sure how this'll affect secondary stat weights, but I figured it should be mentioned.

Also, confirmed: Lvl 90 abilities DO stack with AP. Not sure about crits. I'm testing only Execution sentence, atm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would like to mention that there has been a nerf to our mastery on beta. Instead of providing 2.2% holy damage for each point in mastery, it's only 1% per. So... The bonus is equal to your mastery.

Not sure how this'll affect secondary stat weights, but I figured it should be mentioned.

Also, confirmed: Lvl 90 abilities DO stack with AP. Not sure about crits. I'm testing only Execution sentence, atm.

The adjustment to our Mastery could be due to HoW now being added to the list of abilities affected.

Until we get closer to a release date i.e. the dust settles and mechanics don't change patch to patch, we won't be able to math out the viability of secondary stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any L90 able to do a fully geared vs. naked test to ensure they (L90 talent abilities) do scale with AP? I would think they do, or they'd possibly be entirely obsolesced sometime during the X-pac, but best to test. Precise scaling numbers unimportant at this juncture since they're extremely likely to change between now and live.

You can also glance at the log and see if they ever Crit. If they Crit at all it's safe to say they use our Crit rate, since they're a directly cast spell (whereas some things like weapon procs can occasionally use their own unmodifiable value). Again, I would expect they do Crit, just nice to be sure.

Before raid today, I was able to hop on and do some very quick testing. Basically, I watched the damage of each ability naked and with the vendor pvp gear available to 90s now (when naked, I did leave a weapon on to be sure I controlled weapon damage).

All three abilities *are* affected by AP. Each tick of Light's Hammer and Execution Sentence are able to be crits. As for Holy Prism, the bounce effects (if you target an enemy, the healing component or if you target yourself the damage component) definitely had crits in the log. I never had a crit on the primary target, however. This may be due to small sample size, so I wouldn't freak out about it yet. I will do some more testing later.

Another small thing I noticed (but only one incident, so I can't be 100% sure), but at one point, one of my trinkets procced due to a tick of execution sentence. As you would expect from dots with other classes, it didn't appear that the ES dot was affected by the sudden STR increase. Casting an ability during a trinket proc had the expected result.

Some notes that may help folks testing these abilities - when you retalent with a Tome of Clear Mind, the cooldown on the abilities are reset. Jeeves (and other vendors) sell these, so you can simply stock up on them to quickly recast abilities rather than waiting for the 1m timer on each.

EDIT: After a string of very unlucky RNG, I can now say that the direct component of HP *can* crit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GC commented that they are looking at Crusader's Zeal, among other things:

We'll look at Crusader's Zeal again. Maybe the mechanic isn't even needed. We wanted it to be a source of crit, but we didn't want it to be a maintenance-y buff like Inquisition.

Most trinket procs have a generous proc chance with an ICD. Gurthalak was an exception, but had some wacky consequences as a result of our making it an exception.

We don't think the paladin 90 talents need to benefit from mastery. The healing component can be balanced around Holy healing and since all 3 talents are in the same boat, there shouldn't be talent choice consequences.

The Expertise to spell hit conversion is in and working (as far as we know). The UI may not be updated to reflect it yet.

Crit chances of players against mobs that are higher level than you are reduced by 1% per level difference, in Mists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Until we get closer to a release date i.e. the dust settles and mechanics don't change patch to patch, we won't be able to math out the viability of secondary stats.

It seems we're getting there already: Beta Class Balance Analysis - Forums - World of Warcraft

We want to provide everyone with a quick update regarding the status of beta class design and balance, as well as start collecting more detailed analytics from you. Since you’ve probably seen us say many times in the past that we’re not yet in a place to start dissecting the numbers, it’s worth calling out that we now want you to bring it on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GC commented that they are looking at Crusader's Zeal, among other things:

I liked the Crit Suppression comment. First time I've seen them admit it exists, much less explain (the new version) so clearly. Definitely makes theorycrafting easier when they do so.

arthureld, thanks for the verification on AP scaling and ability to crit. When we get to more steady state we'll test everything for proper coefficients. Guesstimate of perhaps a month before numbers reach what Blizzard expects to keep (though there'll still be last second changes for half the classes - nature of the beast).

To veer off into ability discussion:

I'm somewhat conflicted about Holy Prism and Light's Hammer. LH may do more damage per cast (multiplying the stated coefficient by # of ticks is ~185.25 SP), but has the disadvantage of being tied to a ground location - like Cons it can be hard to ensure boss/adds are held within its radius. While Prism looks like it may do more damage overall (albeit target capped at 5) since it has a (much) shorter CD (82.3% SP * 3 times as often = 246.9%, also factor in the base damage 2 more times) and it has the advantage of burst.

What seems logical to me is the non-moving attack (LH) should do more damage since you risk part/all of it being ineffective, while the burst attack (Prism) should do less since it is, well burst. It's a relatively accepted tenet of game design that directly compared DoTs are inferior to burst since you may not get every tick - this is why DoTs generally get special secondary effects or overall do more damage (they average to the 'same' as burst when some of it is inevitably lost) The talents are somewhat counter-intuitive with the current design.

This leads into the fact that Ret don't have a consistent AOE attack, much less a spammable one. DS requires HP and we are losing both HW and Cons. The last talent can be an AOE, but with a 20 or 60 sec CD. This leaves us pretty weak in multi-target situations. Where's our multi-target HP generator?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you forgetting HotR? Much like on live, it proves to be more damage against 3-4 mobs at a time, depending on levels of Mastery with it scaling better for CS (HotR's initial hit is the only part affected by Mastery).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HotR hits decently, and applies a debuff to all the targets it hits. 4% increased physical damage is nothing to sneeze at.

SoR feels really nerfed right now. That being said, with SoR, HotR, J, Exo, and DS, we do respectably in aoe situations. (Especially when we still have a heroic BLF. xD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HotR does not given increased physical damage taken, that's from Judgement. HotR causes enemies to deal 10% less physical damage for 30 sec.

Doing some testing with Blinding Light, like Repent all damage except Censure causes the disorient effect to end early.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you forgetting HotR?

Yes, I did forget. I was browsing the new 'talent calculator' which shows the skills by class/spec and focused on the fact that HW and Cons were removed from Ret. It had completely slipped my mind that we'd gained HotR from the Prot side of the house.

Some talent changes incoming. Most important is Sanctified Wrath will extend AW by 50% and reduce HoW's CD by 50% (rather than 100%). That reduces my PvP worries (the no cooldown ranged-hammer-a-thon issue), but every other GCD is still possibly worrisome for a normally melee class.

I'll number crunch tomorrow (if someone does not before then), but this looks to put SancWrath pretty ahead of the curve for that tier of talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm working on some math now looking at that tier as well. Very preliminary numbers (I still need to double check some of my assumptions with logs and tests in beta) agree that the new SanWrath will be a very strong talent. Assuming the p4t14 bonus remains the same, getting that bonus may make it an even stronger talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some references to Holy Avenger vs Sanctified Wrath in the MoP All Specs thread, but both talents have since changed. Please point out any flaws in my math if you spot them.

Holy Avenger

Holy Avenger is (currently) akin to a 15 second Zealotry. Every HP generator produces 3 HP.

Sanctified Wrath increases AW to 30 seconds and permits more HoW usage.

Let's try to lowball normal play (to increase the value of HA) and say it takes an average of 5 GCD to generate 3 HP. So you get 1 TV every 6 GCD. HA would change 5-1 to 1-1. 17% TV usage to 50% TV usage - a tripling in TV. In 15 seconds (10 GCD) you would normally get 1.6 TV. In HA you'll get 5. Lose 3.4 HP generators and gain 3.4 TV.

Now, Sanctity of Battle should increase this as you reduce GCD on at least some of your attacks. Since this is napkin math I'm just going to be arbitrary and let's increase HA to a full 4 TV (this is possibly overvaluing - again trying to favour HA).

HA Bottom Line: Lose 4 HP generator and gain 4 TV.

Sanctified Wrath

Now to Sanctified Wrath. First we'll deal with the HoW increase. We'll assume every GCD is already going to be used (no empty GCD), so we're only gaining the difference between HoW and a lesser ability rather than an entirely free attack (lowballing SW a bit). We'll also pretend we're under 20% so HoW would already be available - simply gaining increase of frequency of HoW rather than adding it naturally.

30 seconds is 20 GCD. In 30 seconds you'd normally get 5 HoW, but SW lets us crank out 10. Lose 5 lesser-HP-generators and gain 5 HoW.

Now let's factor the extra 10 seconds of AW. That's 6.66 GCD, so round down to 6. Sequence of: Gen, Gen, Gen, TV, Gen, Gen. That's 5 generators and 1 TV that gains from AW that otherwise would not. 20% bonus damage times 5 Gen and 1 TV = 1 additional Gen and .2TV.

Combine the two. Lose 5 lesser-HP-generators, gain 5 HoW, gain 1 Generator and .2 TV. This means lose 4 generators and gain 5 HoW and .2TV.

SW Bottom Line: Lose 4 lesser-HP-generators and gain 5 HoW and .2TV. Above 20% this becomes lose 9 Gen and gain 10 HoW and .2TV.

Comparison

HA is lose 4 Gen, gain 4 TV.

SW is lose 4 Gen, gain 5 HoW and .2TV.

The Generator losses cancel out, and we can consolidate the TV, so we have:

HW gain 3.8 TV.

SW gain 5 HoW.

TV does: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 260%

HoW does: somewhere greater than 5300 * 161% SP

We'll pretend we have a nice slow 3.7 weapon speed. AP / 14 = 7.14% AP. Multiply by 3.7 = 26.4% AP. Multiply by 260% = 68.7% AP.

Sword of Light converts AP/2 into SP. So HoW goes from 161% SP to 80.5% AP.

Edit: Cannot subtract HoW's base damage from TV until we multiply each ability by its usage!

TV is 260% average weapon damage + 68.7% AP.

HoW is base damage + 80.5% AP.

TV is 260% average weapon damage.

HoW is base damage + 11.8% AP.

More napkin fudging - H Gurthalak damage is 6106 to 9160 - average 7633. HoW is average 5300. So end tier weapon is about 1.5 times HoW. N Ashkandi (first tier) was only about 90% HoW. So we'll say weapon damage will start about equal to HoW. For reference (used in a moment) high end first tier (PvP, actually) is looking like about 17000 average weapon damage.

TV is 260% weapon damage. 3.8 TV is 988% average weapon damage. 988% of 17000 = 167960.

HoW is 100% weapon damage and 11.8% AP. 5 HoW is 500% weapon damage 59% AP. 500% of 17000 = 85000.

TV is 167960 - 85000 = 82960.

HoW is 59% AP.

Reverse engineering we'd need (82960 / 59%) to break even. That's 140610 AP. Around 9 times larger than present values. Even with stat inflation, that's seems... improbable. Double to triple may be within reason, meaning we'd still be 1/3 to 1/6 the required value of AP.

Yes, above 20% SW would gain value, but nowhere near the 3-6 times greater it seems would be necessary. Again factor in how I tried to overvalue HA a bit (in hindsight a bad choice!) and undervalued SW, closer but still a great lead by HA.

Bottom Line

Sanctified Wrath looks really appealing and intuitively 'feels' strong, but in comparison to HA it may actually be lackluster.

Notes/warnings

  • I've worked on this off and on for 3+ hours with many distractions. Likelihood of math or logic errors higher than normal.
  • This is napkin math.
  • Guesstimates abound based on things like weapon and HoW base damage.
  • This is on the current implementation - either/both Talents could change by the time you read this post.
  • Corrected a bit of math noted above - this does NOT fully correct as the above numbers do not take into account the 2 min vs 3 min CD timers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One additional thing to consider is total usage in a 0:00-6:00 minute fight. You would see 3 cycles of 4 TV gain for HA and 2 cycles of 5 HoW and .2TV for SW, resulting in 11.4 TV vs 10 HoW.

Using your numbers, it would average 1824% weapon damage for TV, or 310080, and 118% AP for HoW, inflating the average to (310080 / 118%) or 262780 AP.

Aside from comparing average damage of a normal TV vs a normal HoW, you would also have to factor in the 20% damage increase on the extra 5 HoW. If HA was used off cooldown, you would also only have have the initial 15 sec overlap with AW.

The final thing to consider is if they keep or change the T13 4pc bonus (Equip: Reduces the cooldown on your AW by 85 sec). With SW, you could have a base uptime on HW of just under 1/3, without it an uptime of just over 1/5th. Raids on the beta are supposed to start soon, hopefully this can give us some insight into Fight mechanics and use that in addition to mathed out values to determine not only the appropriate damage range for abilities, but also the eCD of both cooldowns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One additional thing to consider is total usage in a 0:00-6:00 minute fight. You would see 3 cycles of 4 TV gain for HA and 2 cycles of 5 HoW and .2TV for SW, resulting in 11.4 TV vs 10 HoW.

I'd completely forgotten that AW jumped back up to 3 min CD (according to the website, since no pre-MoP talent reduction). I'd rather thought this would be baselined to 2 min for Ret spec, but this hasn't seemed to happen (if it IS 2 min, let me know - Admission - I haven't actually played Beta because I don't want to be bored of the content before I even 'own' the product, I'll probably make an instant-90 when they're available to test coefficients). I had thought time usage was apples to apples. This also led me to not try to factor the 20% into the additional HoW, because the unstated assumption would be that HA would be used with AW to take advantage of the bonus damage to the extra hard hitting attacks. So if we get 5 HoW with 20% extra, it's effectively 1 more HoW each go. This slides the comparison to 11.4TV to 12 HoW.

Number rehash: 1824% weapon damage for TV, or 310080, and 141.6% AP for HoW, inflating the average to (310080 / 141.6%) or the still ludicrous 218983 AP. If we're roughly in the 16000 ballpark right now, that would require a nearly 14-fold increase.

Corrected Number rehash:

TV is 988% weapon damage * 3 usage, or 2964% weapon damage.

HoW is 500% weapon damage 59% AP * 2 usage, or 1000% weapon damage and 118% AP.

1964% Weapon damage is 333880 vs 118% AP. The even more ludicrous 282949 AP required.

If we pretend AP/14 = 1 damage, then HA pulls ahead by a whopping 32337 damage over 6 minutes. That's about one single crit.

I think even if we tweak some of my guesstimates to lowball HA and highball SW we'd find that the napkin math AP requirement would still be vastly higher than probable for MoP.

It'd be rather sad for SW to be excellent due to a tier bonus (if it even is) and then suck once the gear changes in the next tier.

It's sorta looking like Crusader's Zeal 2.0. Really cool and useful at a glance and to your gut, but possibly very weak in actual application. I'm really surprised on this one - I thought that extra 10 seconds on AW was going to make it gangbusters (hence my initial highball HA and lowball SW).

Question

Anyone with a L90 Ret on Beta - what's your AP (knowing present gear shouldn't be even desired raid-starting level)? Nearest thousand is good enough.

Corrected for the same math issue I noted in the post above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in full 483 pvp epics (so higher than we would likely be starting to raid with). I sit right around 25k AP with zero buffs up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

28k+ AP (without buffs) is a more reasonable number in a fully enchanted gear:

ret_apccp9x.jpg

What further raises this number is an calculated flat AP bonus from the typical proc trinkets (3,603 str for 20s / every 90-100s probably) and the on-use trinkets (5,105 str for 20s / every 120s) and also from the weapon-enchant proc (dancing steel: 1,650 str proc for an unknown duration - quite expensive and not available at the beginning of mop).

As my gear is only socketed with 40 str cataclysm gems and only 80% enchanted with MoP enchantings the final ap number is even higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It should be noted that, on Beta, Censure is back to only being applied by melee attacks. HotR, CS, and auto attack are the only things that stack it. Judgement, HoW, and Exo do not stack it nor do they refresh it.

This only makes multi-dotting a bit harder like in the days of Ulduar(Kologarn arms and body bring back memories). And makes keeping a stack on a target that has an air phase pretty much impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It should be noted that, on Beta, Censure is back to only being applied by melee attacks. HotR, CS, and auto attack are the only things that stack it. Judgement, HoW, and Exo do not stack it nor do they refresh it.

This only makes multi-dotting a bit harder like in the days of Ulduar(Kologarn arms and body bring back memories). And makes keeping a stack on a target that has an air phase pretty much impossible.

This is because Seal Hits are no longer Melee Hits (which is why Exorcism was procing it), and both HoW and Judgement are now considered a Special Ranged attack and a Spell, respectfully.

TV will stack Censure, and HoW still currently procs "On Melee" effects and abilities on items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you arthureld and aylen86. Let's say with procs we roughly double current values - say 32k-34k-ish.

I'm going to rerun the HA vs SW comparison trying to lowball HA and highball SW (since I did the reverse in the last comparison).

Holy Avenger

Let's try to highball normal play (to decrease the value of HA) and say every 3 GCD generates 3 HP. So you get 1 TV every 4 GCD. HA would change 3-1 to 1-1. 25% TV usage to 50% TV usage - a doubling in TV. In 15 seconds (10 GCD) you would normally get 2.5 TV. In HA you'll get 5. Lose 2.5 HP generators and gain 2.5 TV.

Now, Sanctity of Battle should increase this as you reduce GCD on at least some of your attacks. To lowball I'm going to keep HA at 2.5 TV.

HA Bottom Line: Lose 2.5 HP generator and gain 2.5 TV.

Sanctified Wrath

Now to Sanctified Wrath. First we'll deal with the HoW increase. We'll assume over 20%, so HoW is an addition. A rough napkin 'rotation' model shows about 4 good free GCD where HoW could drop in.

30 seconds is 20 GCD. In 30 seconds SW lets us crank out 10. Lose 6 lesser-HP-generators and gain 10 (6 upgrades and 4 freebies) HoW.

Now let's factor the extra 10 seconds of AW. That's 6.66 GCD, so round up to 7. Sequence of: Gen, Gen, Gen, TV, Gen, Gen, Gen. That's 6 generators and 1 TV that gains from AW that otherwise would not. 20% bonus damage times 6 Gen and 1 TV = 1.2 additional Gen and .2TV.

Combine the two. Lose 6 lesser-HP-generators, gain 10 HoW, gain 1.2 Generator and .2 TV. This means lose 4.8 generators and gain 10 HoW and .2TV.

SW Bottom Line: Lose 4.8 lesser-HP-generators and gain 10 HoW and .2TV.

Comparison

In 6 minutes we get 3 HA for every 2 SW. This gives a clean direct comparison.

HA is lose 2.5 Gen, gain 2.5 TV. Multiply by 3 for 7.5 lost Gen and 7.5 gained TV.

SW is lose 4.8 Gen, gain 10 HoW and .2TV. Multiply by 2 for 9.6 lost Gen and 20 HoW and .4 TV gained.

Do some consolidation

HW gain 7.1 TV.

SW 2.1 lost Gen, gain 20 HoW.

Math for those interested.

TV does: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 260%

HoW does: somewhere greater than 5300 * 161% SP

Generator does: weighted average of (3.33 CS), (2.5 Judgement), (1 Exo)

We'll pretend we have a nice slow 3.7 weapon speed. AP / 14 = 7.14% AP. Multiply by 3.7 = 26.4% AP. Multiply by 260% = 68.7% AP.

Sword of Light converts AP/2 into SP. So HoW goes from 161% SP to 80.5% AP.

TV is 260% average weapon damage + 68.7% AP.

HoW is base damage + 80.5% AP.

TV is 260% average weapon damage.

HoW is base damage + 11.8% AP.

More napkin fudging - H Gurthalak damage is 6106 to 9160 - average 7633. HoW is average 5300. So end tier weapon is about 1.5 times HoW. N Ashkandi (first tier) was only about 90% HoW. So we'll say weapon damage will start about equal to HoW. For reference (used in a moment) high end first tier (PvP, actually) is looking like about 17000 average weapon damage.

TV is 260% weapon damage.

HoW is 100% weapon damage + 11.8% AP.

CS is (((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 160%. This is .377AP + 160% Weapon. 3.33 of them is 1.256AP + 532.8% Weapon.

Judge is upwards of 1020 + .635SP. AP/2 = SP means .3175AP. 2.5 of them would be 2550 + .79375AP.

Exo is flaky. My last notes were 9770 average and 79.6% of AP. Wowhead doesn't show a coefficient at all, so we're forced to stick with this for now. Only 1 of them.

Sum is 2.84575AP, 12320 damage, and 532.8% Weapon. Divide by 3 and the average Gen is .9486AP, 4107 damage, 177.6% Weapon.

7.1 TV is 1136% average weapon damage.

20 HoW is 2000% average weapon damage and 236% AP.

2.1 gen is 373% average weapon damage, 200% AP, and 8625 damage.

TV is 1136% average weapon damage.

HoW - Gen is 1627% average weapon damage (minus 8625 damage) and 36% AP.

TV is zero.

HoW is 491% average weapon damage (minus 8625) and 36% AP.

HoW is 491% of 17000 = 83470 - 8625 = 74845 + 36% AP.

AP of ~34k.

HoW is 74845 + 36% of 34000 = 74845 + 12240 = 87085.

SW is approx 87085 damage ahead of HA in this best-case comparison.

Bottom Line

In worst of HA and best of SW scenario, SW is ahead by less than 100k total damage in 6 minutes. Can you say 'easily hidden in statistical fluctuation'? I knew you could.

Review my edited posts of earlier and the best of HA and worst of SW scenario was only about 32k in the other direction (more if you map in one HA matching with AW). The margin is so narrow that Blizzard may have done its job and balanced the two. Usage would depend on which of the two is easier to effectively manage or is impacted by a bonus.

Tier bonus inclines towards Sanctified Wrath for now. With something like clcRet managing the extra HoW would be easy as pie. Holy Avenger may be skewed more for multi-target fights, since the HotR (and everything else) would generate triple HP and you could burn them on DS to impact all targets, while the HoW would only strike a single target.

Notes/warnings

  • I corrected an issue with earlier math (by the time you read this the other post has been edited) - namely not canceling out the weapon damage between HA and SW until we've multiplied by usage.
  • This is napkin math.
  • Guesstimates abound based on things like weapon and HoW base damage.
  • This is on the current implementation - either/both Talents could change by the time you read this post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These numbers are quite interesting, thanks exemplar. I wrote a very simple sim that was showing that the two were rather close, so the earlier arguement that HA was mile ahead was scaring me. I also killed Stone Guard 3 times on Friday - using each of the cooldown talents each time. This is only 1 trial, so far from conclusive results, but the HA and SW kills were very close in dps (DP lagged behind though the RNG nature of the talent probably means sometimes it will lag behind and sometimes pull ahead).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Divine Purpose will continue to trail the other two talents based on its nature. The On Demand nature of HA and SW are hugely in their favour. Not only can you engage them linked with other cooldowns (or click items like trinkets), but you can engage them during burn portions of a fight when they are most important for raid success.

Beyond that DP is extremely weak because it only procs from HP usage abilities (Inq, TV, DS). The Cata version at least has many more chances to proc. Very rough napkin shows around 4-5 GCD for every 3 HP. So let's say 1 in 5.5 is a finisher (~18%).

18% of GCD are finishers. Each finisher has a 15% chance to proc and that free TV has a 15%, and so on, which gives you an effective chance of 17.6%. 18% * 17.6% = 3.2% chance to proc. So less than 1 in 30 attacks is upgraded to a TV.

HA gives 2.5 to 4 upgrades every 2 minutes. We'll call SW roughly equivalent since the end numbers are so close to HA. There are 80 GCD in 2 minutes, so 3.2% of these is an average 2.56 upgrades from DivPurp. If you're below average, you're below the lowest possible from HA, if you're above average the sky's the limit and you have the chance to do crazy insane amounts of damage.

Again, factor in the ability to use HA/SW specifically when you want and they will average to far superior to DP. The only advantage DP has going for it is that you don't have to remember to activate it. I do not expect it to be changed as Blizzard has more or less stated this is its goal - something you don't have to activate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inquisition got a bit of a buff according to the datamined patch changes.

Inquisition Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to increase your Holy Damage by 30%. and critical strike chance by 10%.

Hand of Purity (which I'm finding more useful than I originally expected) also got it's cooldown cut down to 30s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Inquisition got a bit of a buff according to the datamined patch changes.

Inquisition Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to increase your Holy Damage by 30%. and critical strike chance by 10%.

Hand of Purity (which I'm finding more useful than I originally expected) also got it's cooldown cut down to 30s.

This seems to be the response of my (and Exemplar's) post regarding Crusader's Zeal. Though what will remain of the latter, I do not know.

At least we'll have better proc rates with "chance on crit" things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.