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Rosvall

Mists of Pandaria 5.0.x Raid Mechanics

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We tried one tanking heroic Tsulong in 10 man tonight with me using growl to taunt off the MT and then cloak etc. Couldn't get it to work at all - as in it just did not taunt off the MT even though the ability went on CD. I notice others saying they had issues with this but what's the deal - is this ability broken (Symbiosis) when used on rogues or is it just this encounter or something?

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In my experience, the taunt part of the Symbiosis-Growl does not work on any raid boss and only on very few adds.

Sadly does not work on Un'Sok's Abomination for example.

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Forgive this rhetorical question, but: what's the point in having an ability that is granted by another player (therefore usually used in a group) that is completely useless in one very major group effort within the game - namely Raids? Blizzard may as well trade in Growl for something else Druish Rogues can use...

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It is probably the same treatment hunters get with their distracting shot, which doesn't work on many raid encounters, too. It may be for some balance reason or to prevent players from reducing the number of tanks needed, but every dk/ret can taunt the boss just fine, so I don't really get the reasoning behind it.

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every dk/ret can taunt the boss just fine, so I don't really get the reasoning behind it.

I don't expect a DK or a ret can tank a boss half as well as a rogue under Growl followed by evasion + Feint followed by glyphed CoS + Feint followed by Prep and so on, or kite a boss half as well as a hunter distracting it from 40y. In other words, a rogue or a hunter could very well take a tank spot in specific fights (where only a few seconds off-tanking is needed) whereas both DD-DK and ret can not, because they would get crit to high heaven.

EDIT: spelling

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That is obviously true, I was just basing my answer on the topic of tsulong, where they only need to take the 3rd breath to reduce the number of tanks needed to 1 :)

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tsulong, where they only need to take the 3rd breath to reduce the number of tanks needed to 1 :)

Is that true for H-Tsulong as well?

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Yes, you tank takes 2, "off tank" takes one, tank takes 2 -> day phase... sadly rogues and hunters can't take the breath because their taunt apparently isn't a real taunt.

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The reason it would be nice in Tsulong hc is rogues can cloak the breath which in general kills non tanks outright. This makes it possible to one tank the fight by taking the 3rd breath and allowing the mt (who can handle 2 in a row with CDs) to reset the debuff and take another 2 before day phase. If you don't do something like this you need 2 tanks which gives dps issues. So we should be able to do this and my take is that it is bugged in some way. There are other ways of course (we switched to one of our pally healers doing the taunt) but the point is if they give a rogue growl then it should function as a growl and in doing so they add a reason for rogues to be useful where often we are considered not much other than a dps.

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Heroic Sha of Fear P2:

Waterspout can be cloaked/feinted. However, recommend saving cloak for Huddle in Terror.

Huddle in Terror is a bit tricky. It goes through immunity effects (divine shield, and cloak), but it -can- miss. This means if you use cloak a second or two prior than you normally would, huddle will miss instead of going through the momentary immunity that cloak provides.

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I`m currently growling on HC Spirit Kings transition on Subetai. We usually wait for the 3rd flanking orders and then bring the 1st down to 30%. I growl, redirect 5 CP and evisc right of the bat. Then I spam hemo with evasion and combat readiness up. I`ve been able to hold the boss for more than 15 seconds on few attempts.

The spell gives you a high amount of threat but it is not a real taunt. I try to keep the boss away from the raid for the first few seconds, after I apply rupture I move closer, there seems to be a problem with people holding off their AoE, which to me as a rogue is stupid since we do aoe when we only want to.

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I`m currently growling on HC Spirit Kings transition on Subetai. We usually wait for the 3rd flanking orders and then bring the 1st down to 30%. I growl, redirect 5 CP and evisc right of the bat. Then I spam hemo with evasion and combat readiness up. I`ve been able to hold the boss for more than 15 seconds on few attempts.

The spell gives you a high amount of threat but it is not a real taunt. I try to keep the boss away from the raid for the first few seconds, after I apply rupture I move closer, there seems to be a problem with people holding off their AoE, which to me as a rogue is stupid since we do aoe when we only want to.

I tried to use the "taunt" on HC Tsulong--was hoping it would pop me up to second in threat, and MT pally would drop his threat and I could take the third breath. I blew the CD while watching Omen a few times and noticed no threat gain whatsoever. I'm a little disappointed with this ability--it would have been very useful in a handful of fights. The health boost is cool, but rarely ever needed. Hopefully our symbiosis gets redesigned at some time, because I have it on me for a good number of fights since my boomkin has discovered the usefulness of CoS.

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Quick question in regards to Sonic discharge and im not sure if this has been said/ answered so if so i am sorry for repost but do we know if Smoke Bomb will negate the effects?

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Quick question in regards to Sonic discharge and im not sure if this has been said/ answered so if so i am sorry for repost but do we know if Smoke Bomb will negate the effects?

Sonic Discharge is aoe damage, so smoke bomb would not have an effect.

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Juste learnt that while browsing forums, it seems worth mentioning: on Zor'Lok, keep Smoke Bomb on Cooldown on plateform 3 and P2, otherwise the mind-control will blow the smoke and may prevent many heals (I never had this happen to me personally, because our guild decided to switch out all melee on Heroic Zor'Lok anyway).

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I know 5.2 is on our doorstep, so this is probably a concern of the past for most, but it seems like it would be ideal to reforge out of expertise for Heroic Lei Shi because the boss is just casting the whole fight... I am not seeing dodges in the the parses out there, or am I missing something?

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On Lei Shen, the thunderstrike in phase one can be cloaked.

Also, the lightning puddles on the ground that spawn adds can also be cloaked, which will prevent an add from spawning. (Phase 2/transition phase)

And, Static shock can be cloaked too, which will once again negate the ability.

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I know 5.2 is on our doorstep, so this is probably a concern of the past for most, but it seems like it would be ideal to reforge out of expertise for Heroic Lei Shi because the boss is just casting the whole fight... I am not seeing dodges in the the parses out there, or am I missing something?

Not true. He melees, not casts. There are only a few abilities he ever casts.

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Not true. He melees, not casts. There are only a few abilities he ever casts.

From Icy Veins ...

Lei Shi does not perform melee attacks. Instead, she constantly spams Spray at her current target. This deals a large amount of Frost damage to that player and all players within 2.5 yards, and adds a stacking debuff to all affected players, which increases Frost damage taken by 16% per stack, for 10 seconds.

You are perhaps thinking of someone else? Maybe Lei Shen?

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Lei Shen is a 5.2 boss. Lei Shi (current tier) never melees, but the adds do. None of which even matters for reforging, as expertise effects our own melee swings, not the boss's. Parry haste went away a few years back.

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The current discussion has nothing to do with parry haste but with the fact that a casting enemy can't dodge your attacks, therefor one could reforge out of every bit of expertise and still hit every attack on Lei Shi. There have been some bosses in previous tiers where this is also true, but I can't remember them off the top of my hat.

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The current discussion has nothing to do with parry haste but with the fact that a casting enemy can't dodge your attacks, therefor one could reforge out of every bit of expertise and still hit every attack on Lei Shi. There have been some bosses in previous tiers where this is also true, but I can't remember them off the top of my hat.

Yes, this is what I was after. For example, back when my guild did heroic Spine of Deathwing progression, myself and our other melee reforged out of expertise because the tendons couldn't dodge, so hey, why not reforge into other secondary stats.

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