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Lokrick

SimulationCraft for Hunters (Panda edition)

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I'm running into a strange scenario with stat weighting and dps. I'm trying to determine the difference between reforging haste > crit and crit > haste for bm. In both cases the valuation of haste is about 0.3 more than crit, but the simulation when reforged to haste is about 3k dps LOWER than reforged to crit. Any thoughts on this? Did I hit some magical haste point that made haste better but up to that point crit was far better?

I'm using the default settings, 5 min patchwerk etc... Wowarmory profile

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T16 changes have been in for a while. I've added some initial profiles for T16H with all the same gear. The gear profiles and action lists almost certainly need some spec-specific tuning.

374905  34.6%  Hunter_BM_T16H with ticking ebon detonator

359181  33.3%  Hunter_SV_T16H

349451  32.4%  Hunter_MM_T16H

talents=000221

professions=enchanting=600/alchemy=600

head=headguard_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99402,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=capacitive_primal_160agi_180agi

neck=gleaming_eye_of_the_devilsaur,id=105602,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=haste_hit

shoulder=spaulders_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99404,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=exp_crit,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit

back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,ilevel=608,quality=,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180crit

chest=tunic_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99405,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi_180agi,enchant=80agi_80sta

wrist=wristguards_of_ruination,id=105562,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,enchant=180agi

hand=gloves_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99406,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170haste

waist=arrowflight_girdle,id=105584,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi

legs=legguards_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99403,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_exp,gems=80agi_160crit_80agi_160crit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit

feet=puddle_punishers,id=105410,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=hit_haste,gems=160agi_60mastery,enchant=140agi

ring1=kilruks_band_of_ascendancy,id=105624,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

ring2=ring_of_restless_energy,id=105558,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

trinket1=assurance_of_consequence,id=105472,upgrade=2

trinket2=haromms_talisman,id=105527,upgrade=2

main_hand=korkron_hand_cannon,id=105559,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scope_of_doom

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which are the overall stats for the profile ?

FD shows a higher DPS on BM reforging to haste, while crit is superior for SV.

Ebon detonator should be a lot better for SV than Assurance of consecuence, since the CD reduction on Black Arrow is a very very marginal DPS boost, while BM gets reduced BW CD, which is bastly superior, as well as a superior stampede. So both specs should use Ebon detonator, and AoC for BM and Haromm's for SV.

Talents should also be noticeable, as it has been reported that TotH now can procc from itself on arcane shot (like multishot on live) which it didn't do for the earlier builds. That should make it the superior choice for SV, as it sinergyzes with the 2 piece tier which is still 8 secs for SV, while 4 for SV and MM.

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which are the overall stats for the profile ?

FD shows a higher DPS on BM reforging to haste, while crit is superior for SV.

Ebon detonator should be a lot better for SV than Assurance of consecuence, since the CD reduction on Black Arrow is a very very marginal DPS boost, while BM gets reduced BW CD, which is bastly superior, as well as a superior stampede. So both specs should use Ebon detonator, and AoC for BM and Haromm's for SV.

Talents should also be noticeable, as it has been reported that TotH now can procc from itself on arcane shot (like multishot on live) which it didn't do for the earlier builds. That should make it the superior choice for SV, as it sinergyzes with the 2 piece tier which is still 8 secs for SV, while 4 for SV and MM.

Most unreforged items are crit/haste, so the gear doesn't have a lot of room for trading crit and haste. The full gear profiles are below (there's no difference in the reforging yet). The profiles will be included in the next release. I've tested all the specs with Ebon detonator vs. Haromms, and it was a 4k dps loss for SV and MM, but I haven't simmed talents variations, etc.

The TotH implementation is consistent with the new behavior: if arcane costs focus, it can trigger Thrill. There was a recently-fixed bug in which not enough stacks were being triggered. I haven't compared the talents since this was fixed. All the specs are currently set at Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, and Glaive Toss.

ptr=1

talent_format=armory

# BM

hunter=Hunter_BM_T16H

level=90

race=orc

spec=beast_mastery

position=ranged_back

role=attack

talents=000221

professions=enchanting=600/alchemy=600

head=headguard_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99402,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=capacitive_primal_160agi_180agi

neck=gleaming_eye_of_the_devilsaur,id=105602,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=haste_hit

shoulder=spaulders_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99404,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=exp_crit,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit

back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,ilevel=608,quality=,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180crit

chest=tunic_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99405,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi_180agi,enchant=80agi_80sta

wrist=wristguards_of_ruination,id=105562,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,enchant=180agi

hand=gloves_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99406,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170haste

waist=arrowflight_girdle,id=105584,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi

legs=legguards_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99403,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_exp,gems=80agi_160crit_80agi_160crit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit

feet=puddle_punishers,id=105410,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=hit_haste,gems=160agi_60mastery,enchant=140agi

ring1=kilruks_band_of_ascendancy,id=105624,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

ring2=ring_of_restless_energy,id=105558,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

trinket1=assurance_of_consequence,id=105472,upgrade=2

trinket2=ticking_ebon_detonator,id=105612,upgrade=2

main_hand=korkron_hand_cannon,id=105559,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scope_of_doom

# MM

hunter=Hunter_MM_T16H

level=90

race=orc

spec=marksmanship

position=ranged_back

role=attack

talents=000221

professions=enchanting=600/alchemy=600

head=headguard_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99402,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=capacitive_primal_160agi_180agi

neck=gleaming_eye_of_the_devilsaur,id=105602,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=haste_hit

shoulder=spaulders_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99404,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=exp_crit,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit

back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,ilevel=608,quality=,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180crit

chest=tunic_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99405,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi_180agi,enchant=80agi_80sta

wrist=wristguards_of_ruination,id=105562,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,enchant=180agi

hand=gloves_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99406,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170haste

waist=arrowflight_girdle,id=105584,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi

legs=legguards_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99403,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_exp,gems=80agi_160crit_80agi_160crit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit

feet=puddle_punishers,id=105410,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=hit_haste,gems=160agi_60mastery,enchant=140agi

ring1=kilruks_band_of_ascendancy,id=105624,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

ring2=ring_of_restless_energy,id=105558,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

trinket1=assurance_of_consequence,id=105472,upgrade=2

trinket2=haromms_talisman,id=105527,upgrade=2

main_hand=korkron_hand_cannon,id=105559,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scope_of_doom

# SV

hunter=Hunter_SV_T16H

level=90

race=orc

spec=survival

position=ranged_back

role=attack

talents=000221

professions=enchanting=600/alchemy=600

head=headguard_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99402,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=capacitive_primal_160agi_180agi

neck=gleaming_eye_of_the_devilsaur,id=105602,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=haste_hit

shoulder=spaulders_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99404,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=exp_crit,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit

back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,ilevel=608,quality=,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180crit

chest=tunic_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99405,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi_180agi,enchant=80agi_80sta

wrist=wristguards_of_ruination,id=105562,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,enchant=180agi

hand=gloves_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99406,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170haste

waist=arrowflight_girdle,id=105584,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi

legs=legguards_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99403,upgrade=2,ilevel=574,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_exp,gems=80agi_160crit_80agi_160crit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit

feet=puddle_punishers,id=105410,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=hit_haste,gems=160agi_60mastery,enchant=140agi

ring1=kilruks_band_of_ascendancy,id=105624,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

ring2=ring_of_restless_energy,id=105558,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,gems=160agi_60crit,enchant=160agi

trinket1=assurance_of_consequence,id=105472,upgrade=2

trinket2=haromms_talisman,id=105527,upgrade=2

main_hand=korkron_hand_cannon,id=105559,upgrade=2,ilevel=580,quality=epic,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scope_of_doom

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The choice was not between Ebon Detonator and Haromms, but between Haromms and Assurance. Ebon detonator is likely to be BiS for every spec. Ill try to compare when I get home

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... The gear profiles and action lists almost certainly need some spec-specific tuning.

With just the build 17331 buffs and no changes:

375465  34.2%  Hunter_BM_T16H

365437  33.3%  Hunter_SV_T16H

355865  32.4%  Hunter_MM_T16H
This seems too small a buff to be compelling (1.8% for MM), so I suspect action list changes are needed to take advantage of it. Incidentally, I also tried tith trinket substitutions:
367922  33.9%  Hunter_BM_T16H replace Assurance with Haromms

362777  33.4%  Hunter_SV_T16H replace Assurance with Ebon Detonator

355447  32.7%  Hunter_MM_T16H replace Assurance with Ebon Detonator
All three substitutions are a (small) loss (which is consistent with Zeherah's results). Edit: the biggest issue in the MM profile is that it doesn't properly handle the tier and other procs that affect Aimed casting speed. I tried a quick MM profile change I've been avoiding for a while, and it went from casting 21 aimed shots to casting 69 aimed shots. The result was an improvement, though it's astonishing that it was only an improvement by 4k. The problem with this way of constructing the profile is that it doesn't correctly incorporate reaction time to procs, so we will need a version that does.
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=cast_time<1.8


359422  100.0%  Hunter_MM_T16H
Replacing dire beast with fervor improves the MM profile further:
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=cast_time<1.7


362434  100.0%  Hunter_MM_T16H

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Thank you for the trinket comparison. Now that FD has all gear available, included HC WF items, I could see a difference of +-200-500 DPS on both trinkets for SV/MM.

It is odd that the Kill command 16% buff yields only 600 DPS, it should be a lot more noticeable. Also, for the MM profile, what does it do during CA phase? In FD it is a DPS increase to ignore SrS and CS, and casting only AiS + talents. And one last thing. To try totH for MM, can you make the sim to only cast AS when ToTH has procced? So you always harcast AiS as focus dump, except when AS costs 10 focus

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There were a lot of bugs fixed in simc over the weekend. I've been getting a lot of requests for stat weight info and trinket priorities. I ran some sims for reference for anyone who is impatient for data and doesn't want to compile the latest simc. These are both in T15H gear since I figure short term people are more interested in what to focus on in the initial weeks of raiding. These also don't have upgrades on the gear because I was just using the gear profiles in simc and didn't feel like manually upgrading every piece.

Stat Weights (note these seemed to vary for BM from run to run, even with high iterations- I ran with 2 talent combos for BM since blink strike has such an effect on stat values)

Trinket Comparison (replacing heroic Bad Juju with the normal mode versions of each new trinket)

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Since I ran the sims, here's the current T16H dps for all talents. This is pretty brute force: I ran the command independently for each spec and combined the results. So that others can see the approach:

>  simc10.exe threads=5 iterations=5000 Hunter_MM_T16H.simc copy=MM_111 talents=000111 copy=MM_112 talents=000112 copy=MM_113 talents=000113 copy=MM_121 talents=000121 copy=MM_122 talents=000122 copy=MM_123 talents=000123 copy=MM_131 talents=000131 copy=MM_132 talents=000132 copy=MM_133 talents=000133 copy=MM_211 talents=000211 copy=MM_212 talents=000212 copy=MM_213 talents=000213 copy=MM_221 talents=000221 copy=MM_222 talents=000222 copy=MM_223 talents=000223 copy=MM_231 talents=000231 copy=MM_232 talents=000232 copy=MM_233 talents=000233 copy=MM_311 talents=000311 copy=MM_312 talents=000312 copy=MM_313 talents=000313 copy=MM_321 talents=000321 copy=MM_322 talents=000322 copy=MM_323 talents=000323 copy=MM_331 talents=000331 copy=MM_332 talents=000332 copy=MM_333 talents=000333 | more


>  simc10.exe threads=5 iterations=5000 Hunter_SV_T16H.simc copy=SV_111 talents=000111 copy=SV_112 talents=000112 copy=SV_113 talents=000113 copy=SV_121 talents=000121 copy=SV_122 talents=000122 copy=SV_123 talents=000123 copy=SV_131 talents=000131 copy=SV_132 talents=000132 copy=SV_133 talents=000133 copy=SV_211 talents=000211 copy=SV_212 talents=000212 copy=SV_213 talents=000213 copy=SV_221 talents=000221 copy=SV_222 talents=000222 copy=SV_223 talents=000223 copy=SV_231 talents=000231 copy=SV_232 talents=000232 copy=SV_233 talents=000233 copy=SV_311 talents=000311 copy=SV_312 talents=000312 copy=SV_313 talents=000313 copy=SV_321 talents=000321 copy=SV_322 talents=000322 copy=SV_323 talents=000323 copy=SV_331 talents=000331 copy=SV_332 talents=000332 copy=SV_333 talents=000333 | more


> simc10.exe threads=5 iterations=5000 Hunter_BM_T16H.simc copy=bm_111 talents=000111 copy=bm_112 talents=000112 copy=bm_113 talents=000113 copy=bm_121 talents=000121 copy=bm_122 talents=000122 copy=bm_123 talents=000123 copy=bm_131 talents=000131 copy=bm_132 talents=000132 copy=bm_133 talents=000133 copy=bm_211 talents=000211 copy=bm_212 talents=000212 copy=bm_213 talents=000213 copy=bm_221 talents=000221 copy=bm_222 talents=000222 copy=bm_223 talents=000223 copy=bm_231 talents=000231 copy=bm_232 talents=000232 copy=bm_233 talents=000233 copy=bm_311 talents=000311 copy=bm_312 talents=000312 copy=bm_313 talents=000313 copy=bm_321 talents=000321 copy=bm_322 talents=000322 copy=bm_323 talents=000323 copy=bm_331 talents=000331 copy=bm_332 talents=000332 copy=bm_333 talents=000333 | more

[table] dps | spec|talents

425,393 | bm | 211

424,096 | bm | 221

423,510 | bm | 212

421,422 | bm | 222

418,433 | bm | 231

418,347 | SV | 211

417,772 | SV | 111

417,459 | bm | 213

416,660 | MM | 211

416,609 | SV | 212

416,140 | bm | 232

416,016 | MM | 111

415,660 | bm | 223

415,625 | SV | 112

414,657 | bm | 111

414,463 | bm | 121

414,460 | SV | 231

414,196 | MM | 212

413,317 | MM | 112

413,030 | SV | 121

413,021 | MM | 231

412,943 | SV | 232

412,723 | MM | 131

412,662 | SV | 131

412,618 | SV | 221

412,593 | MM | 121

412,513 | bm | 112

411,763 | MM | 122

411,682 | bm | 122

411,337 | SV | 312

411,072 | SV | 311

410,791 | bm | 233

410,761 | SV | 222

410,603 | MM | 232

410,602 | MM | 132

410,486 | MM | 221

410,397 | SV | 122

410,075 | SV | 213

409,996 | SV | 113

409,901 | MM | 213

409,867 | bm | 321

409,834 | SV | 132

409,314 | MM | 113

409,242 | bm | 311

408,988 | SV | 331

408,742 | SV | 332

408,387 | bm | 131

408,110 | MM | 222

407,562 | SV | 321

407,327 | bm | 322

407,142 | SV | 322

407,135 | bm | 123

406,972 | bm | 113

406,776 | bm | 312

406,240 | MM | 233

406,141 | bm | 132

405,988 | SV | 233

405,925 | MM | 123

405,873 | MM | 133

405,441 | SV | 123

405,239 | SV | 223

404,633 | bm | 331

404,382 | MM | 223

404,225 | SV | 133

403,250 | SV | 313

402,060 | bm | 332

401,419 | bm | 323

400,872 | bm | 133

400,576 | SV | 333

400,518 | bm | 313

399,535 | SV | 323

395,879 | bm | 333

394,768 | MM | 312

394,221 | MM | 311

392,959 | MM | 332

392,387 | MM | 331

391,267 | MM | 322

390,909 | MM | 321

388,514 | MM | 313

386,608 | MM | 333

385,050 | MM | 323

[/table]

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The thrill implementation was double-dipping on focus, in that it both discounted the arcane shot price and then added the corresponding focus. That's been fixed, so people should recompute talent tradeoffs. I updated the talent breakdown in the talent breakdown above, and as expected, the SV+Thrill dropped substantially.

hanamichi likes this

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The thrill implementation was double-dipping on focus, in that it both discounted the arcane shot price and then added the corresponding focus. That's been fixed, so people should recompute talent tradeoffs. I updated the talent breakdown in the talent breakdown above, and as expected, the SV+Thrill dropped substantially.

Hello , have the changes been made or shall we wait for an update (with simcraft).

thank you .

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Hello , have the changes been made or shall we wait for an update (with simcraft).

The change is in.

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Does anyone know when the recent Aspect of the Hawk buff  will be incorparated to Simulationcraft

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