Tyvi

Blood Tanking - Actively Mitigating since before it was cool [5.4]

342 posts in this topic

Your math is a bit off for heart strike. The 30% increase from diseases is applied to the total damage, so you would put the 1.3 on the outside of the parenthesis. It's only a difference of 204.3 damage, but I thought i'd point that out because i'm obnoxious like that. Also you said in the guide that 2x heart strike is now less than 1x death strike, which while close isn't the case. in your own math above you show that 2x heart strike is still better than a single death strike after you count in the bonuses from disease damage for all levels of attack power (albeit not by much).

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I expanded the Dark Simulacrum section to include a list of copyable spells. Let me know if you find any errors in actual raids or if you have any suggestions for spells to add in there.

Also, I am going to wait until the next patch or 2-3 more days (whatever occurs first) before I rewrite the whole Death Siphon/Heart Stike/Death Strike damage bit and add AP breakpoints into the OP just to make sure the changes actually stick. I am still hoping for a Glyph of Focused Shield option for Heart Strike though.

And lastly, have you guys seen Critho in Stormwind yet? He makes for a great tanking dummy to train timing Death Strikes with or testing out different talents on. :v:

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Will Might of Ursoc put you at 15% during Purgatory, or is it counted as a heal?

I never saw an answer to this, but I've been wondering the same thing. Anyone know? I have no access to test this myself, or I would :(

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I never saw an answer to this, but I've been wondering the same thing. Anyone know? I have no access to test this myself, or I would :(

It's not an actual heal, so it should ignore Purgatory completely. Technically you're at 1hp for the duration of Purgatory, so it would set you to 15% of your max hp. You'd still die if you don't heal the de-buff off though.

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The important bit is that Purgatory ends the moment it's healed off. This means it could leave you mortal with next to no hp, about to get smashed into the ground. It's not enough to heal off the absorb; you need to get back up from 1 hp as well. If MoU puts you at 15% you'd always leave Purgatory with at least 15% health, minimizing your chance of getting 1-shot when Purgatory ends.

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I dont get the "The value of accuracy stats" bit. Even when deathstrike misses or is dodged/parried, you still get the full heal & bloodshield so ???

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I dont get the "The value of accuracy stats" bit. Even when deathstrike misses or is dodged/parried, you still get the full heal & bloodshield so ???

It's because we don't know if it's a bug that Death Strike heals even if it doesn't land or not. Blizzard has been awfully silent about the whole thing so for now I am going to assume it is a bug. (The last thing they said about Death Strike is that it should not heal if it doesn't land and the wording of the Death Strike tooltip was deliberately changed back from it's 4.3 version but some time has passed with Death Strike still healing at all times, so who knows?)

If you do not think it is a bug, by all means disregard that particular benefit of accuracy gearing and evaluate if the other advantages are enough for you to pick it over avoidance or not.

On the topic of bugs, has anyone noticed Lichborne behaving very weirdly? Around half the time, it will refuse letting you self heal past the first Death Coil and nothing you do (targeting yourself then hitting Death Coil, mouseover Death Coil, not using macros at all etc) will heal yourself.

Also, is anyone else experiencing a bug with Chains of Ice and Chilblains? I can't get mobs rooted at all with it anymore and some (maybe all, I haven't checked) heroic bosses even get the Chilblains debuff even though it doesn't snare them (before you would just get an "Immune" message).

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This is the first I have heard of the Lichborn bug, but I suppose you can add it to the list. Currently, Howling Blast is doing initial splash aoe damage, but only applying Frost Fever to the main target. Unholy Blight is only applying diseases to the main target if it applies at all.

Edit: link with a blue post concerning current bugged death knight abilities.

Death Knight diseases not applying correctly - Forums - World of Warcraft

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Regarding expertise, why does the guide recommend 7.5% exp? Considering how exp currently works, it shouldn't change value at all around 7.5% point, it keeps increasing your chance of landing an attack by the exact same amount up to 15% as long as you're attacking from the front. I'm not saying gearing all the way up to 15% is ideal, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to go for 7.5% unless you want to increase your dps for bosses you're offtanking.

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With 7.5% hit and exp your Death Strike and Rune Strike will always hit. Hearth Strike need 15% exp for always hitting.

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On the topic of bugs, has anyone noticed Lichborne behaving very weirdly? Around half the time, it will refuse letting you self heal past the first Death Coil and nothing you do (targeting yourself then hitting Death Coil, mouseover Death Coil, not using macros at all etc) will heal yourself.

Casting Horn of Winter during Lichborne will do it. Casting almost anything that buffs you during Lichborne, in fact, will bug it. Vampiric before LB works but LB then Vampiric will knock you out of your special undead status. Interestingly, Arcane Torrent is safe to cast during LB. This bug has existed since prepatch as far as I know and nothing has been done yet.

All you can do during LB right now is spend runes so be careful with it :( Create a support ticket about this next time you are in game, to show Blizzard this issue really matters to you.

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Two relevant items from the most recent hotfix:

- The Chillblains talent now works properly with Chains of ice. Casting Chains of Ice on a target will apply both the Chillblains snare and the Chains of Ice rooting effect.

- Using the Phase Fingers tinker on gloves will now increase the player's dodge rating by 2,880 for 10 seconds. The tinker can only be activated once per minute.

I actually noticed the former working again yesterday and tried if they also fixed the Lichborne bug but no luck; that one is still ingame (and thanks for telling us the conditions on how to avoid/reproduce it <3).

The second fix now makes the Dodge tinker actually better than the Strength tinker in terms of avoidance unlike before where the Strength tinker was better for everything.

Personally, I am not going to change it yet until I find a boss that actually threatens tanks since the Strength boost is really awesome for Dancing Rune Weapon but it's nice to actually have the option to do so. Nonetheless, the Dodge tinker is still underbudget and should haven given 3840 Dodge (for 640 Dodge on average) on use instead of 2880 (480 Dodge on average) but it is a start.

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I have on me DK mining and blacksmithing but I want change mining to engi. When new expansion start engi is better than mining because it gives gloves enchant + epic head, mining give only stamina. But in late game what would be better? Dodge after DR or always the same health . Avoidance vs EH. What would you choose?

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In your Elegon encounter specifics, you may wish to include that Remorseless Winter can snare and stun the Cosmic Spark adds in Phase 3. Neither of the other 90level talent choices have any use in Elegon as far as I understand.

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I have on me DK mining and blacksmithing but I want change mining to engi. When new expansion start engi is better than mining because it gives gloves enchant + epic head, mining give only stamina. But in late game what would be better? Dodge after DR or always the same health . Avoidance vs EH. What would you choose?

I would choose EH > Avoidance. Although, I have engi and I didn't pick it just because the glove tinker / head. The nitro boost is awesome and comes in really handy at some fights. Also, you get the [Goblin Glider] which actually works like a little Goblin jump. If you jump, then pop [Goblin Glider] real quick, you get a nice little jump. (Only a few yards, but still!) It actually saved my life on Elegon once, haha. If you want the EH, I suggest getting Leatherworking hence the Fur Lining - Stamina.

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Thanks for respond. I didn't even think about LW.

One question about Elegon.

If I taunt boss he will attack only me for 3 seconds. With Death's Advance can I move away from boss to reset stack and come back.

I tested it in DS trash before Warlord Zon'ozz. When big tentacle catch me and throw away I use taunt on it and tantacle couldn't attack anyone for 3 seconds.

Someone tried this?

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One question about Elegon.

If I taunt boss he will attack only me for 3 seconds. With Death's Advance can I move away from boss to reset stack and come back.

A second tank is required, due to Grasping Energy Tendrils. If you are out of range he will chew on melee and if melee are out of range he will grasp the whole raid. It's like moving out of melee range of Ragnaros (only worse) ... he gets angry and hits someone else regardless of threat. I don't feel there is an overwhelming need to drop 1 of your tanks for Elegon ... tanks are pulling ridiculous DPS numbers on that fight thanks to uncapped vengeance.

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So with the 5.1 PTR notes being posted, I figured it wouldn't hurt to confirm what were real changes and what were just tooltip clarifications just to make sure. I didn't test Blood Boil and Soul Reaper because we already knew they got hotfixed, but I did test Death Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike and Death Siphon.

Heart Strike: Has been hotfix nerfed to 105% wep damage + 572.

Rune Strike: Is doing 165% weapon damage for me while the ingame tooltip says 175% and the 5.1 tooltip says 160%. Not sure where the difference is coming from but it is closer to the 5.1 value atleast.

Death Strike: Seems to be doing ~265% weapon damage + 1350 (not exact, but around that ballpark) which is lower than the 5.0 tooltip from MMO-C but much higher than the new datamined 5.1 version.

Death Siphon: Using 5.1 values already.

So it looks like that indeed most of our abilities already were hotfix nerfed and my guess is that the 5.1 Death Strike tooltip is datamined wrongly (I remember MMO-C having trouble differentiating between the Blood specific Death Strike and the Frost/Unholy one and the 5.1 tooltip actually matches for the DPS specs - which is probably not a coincidence).

I don't know when all these hotfix nerfs went through, but I have a suspicion it happened shortly before this raid reset.

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Hi, this is my first post here but I follow the blood threads since cata. I only feel confortable enough with the class to make a post now :).

I really agree with almost the entire guide. But I have one question yet:

Why [iTEM]76887[/iTEM] was not considered as an possible meta gem? This a large amount of mastery and the run speed is always welcome I think.

Thank you!

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Why [iTEM]76887[/iTEM] was not considered as an possible meta gem? This a large amount of mastery and the run speed is always welcome I think.

First off, does Fleet meta speed increase stack with Pandaren Step enchant? I recall them not stacking in Cata and I feel they are not stacking in MoP, but I'm not 100% sure

Second, the 2% armor from Austere is going to dominate the additional Mastery from Fleet in terms of physical damage reduction. Mastery is only going to reduce physical damage when Blood Shield is up. Armor will reduce physical damage on every hit.

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Quick question specifically for the Elegon encounter. With the magic damage going out during the encounter, is it recommended to use Stoneskin Gargoyle? I feel like Elegon's melee swings are easily dealt with using DS/Blood Shield and the only other physical damage comes from the adds in phase 3 (if I'm not mistaken).

Lastly, just curious if rune of Spellshattering may be viable here as well, I understand it's pretty niche so just wanted to see if anyone has tried it/thinks it could be good.

Thanks in advance.

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First off, does Fleet meta speed increase stack with Pandaren Step enchant? I recall them not stacking in Cata and I feel they are not stacking in MoP, but I'm not 100% sure

Second, the 2% armor from Austere is going to dominate the additional Mastery from Fleet in terms of physical damage reduction. Mastery is only going to reduce physical damage when Blood Shield is up. Armor will reduce physical damage on every hit.

I tested the meta and the enchant and they really don't stack :(. Also I did the math for the metas and you're right (austere mitigates something like 20% more damage than the Fleet). I'm going back to Austere. Thank you.

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Quick question specifically for the Elegon encounter. With the magic damage going out during the encounter, is it recommended to use Stoneskin Gargoyle? I feel like Elegon's melee swings are easily dealt with using DS/Blood Shield and the only other physical damage comes from the adds in phase 3 (if I'm not mistaken).

Lastly, just curious if rune of Spellshattering may be viable here as well, I understand it's pretty niche so just wanted to see if anyone has tried it/thinks it could be good.

Thanks in advance.

This is one log with spellshattering from today:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This is one log without spellshattering (swordshattering instead) from Tuesday:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

You can see that the Celestial Breath average dropped from 68K to 61K. On the other hand the melee average damage raised from 95K to 99K and the misses dropped from 30% to 23%. But, on the final sum, average damage from all sources dropped from 68K to 64K.

I can say that I felt I was too squish on Tuesday when celestial breath was cast close to Total Annihilation, and sometimes I died because AMS wasn't enough.

Today with spellshattering all went good (besides we couldn't beat the enrage yet :().

One tip I can give that worked for me is to use [iTEM]43536[/iTEM]. So, when total annihilation is casted, you can use AMS and IBF together.

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I only ask this because I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else... Why is Scent of Blood not taken into account when mentioning Hit and Expertise stats? From what I understand and have been able to test for myself the ability only procs on successful melee swings. While there's no reason to base your Death Strike usage on SoB, that doesn't mean it's a bad ability - it's still a very significant survivability increase when you have stacks of it during a high-burst phase, and increasing that could be relevant to survivability.

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With the change to Heart Strike (- ~8.5% dmg) and blood boil (+388% base -8.2% AP Scaling), would it be more advantageous for us to use blood boil on almost any encounter, even including the increased damage from having FF and BP up?

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