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Matron Heartless

Unholy DPS 5.2 | Thunderstruck

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Thanks for the reply! I should probably have given it a more thorough read about the OP part. As for gara jal, I was refering to using it for other tanks and not yourself as a dk. Im unholy dps in our guild and our druid tank really appreciate me using amz on him. If what you say about his shadow attacks can't be absorbed by amz, then it would indeed be better to use it on the raid. It is just that it worked out really well for us.

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MMO-C datamined set bonuses:

Item - Death Knight T15 DPS 2P Bonus (New) Your attacks have a chance to raise the spirit of a fallen Zandalari as your Death Knight minion for 15 sec.

Item - Death Knight T15 DPS 4P Bonus (New) Increases the duration of Army of the Dead by 15 sec.

The 2p could work fairly well as-is assuming they get the numbers right and the minion doesn't replace the ghoul or cause other assorted problems.

The 4p has to be a placeholder. Adding more time to a 10 minute CD doesn't change it being a 10 min CD, and them making a set bonus around a typically once-per-fight ability is just plain odd even if the numbers are such that it keeps up with expected DPS bonuses.

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The 2p could work fairly well as-is assuming they get the numbers right and the minion doesn't replace the ghoul or cause other assorted problems.

IIRC garg, blood worms, frost and blood ghouls are minions the unholy one is a pet. Should work just like army just more little guys following you around doing your bidding :)

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The 4p has to be a placeholder. Adding more time to a 10 minute CD doesn't change it being a 10 min CD, and them making a set bonus around a typically once-per-fight ability is just plain odd even if the numbers are such that it keeps up with expected DPS bonuses.

Considering Army does over 50k dps during it's 35~ sec active time, increasing that to 50 seconds is pretty amazing.

It's a lot of damage during that minute of combat, it's just not amazing versus 10 minutes of Patchwerk. However, most fights aren't Patchwerk, and you can usually expect burn phases/damage buffs to take advantage of. It's a really solid 4pc bonus, when you start thinking of creative ways to use it.

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By my check, its also the first tier bonus since TOC that clearly benefits unholy more than frost.

On the army specific mechanics, the change to tooltip of it lasting 40 seconds isn't a change but just a tooltip description, thus this 4 piece comes down to a 37.5% increase in duration.

Simcraft shows that army deals this much damage per spec.

[table]Spec | Current | 4 Piece | Increase

DW Frost BIS: |3.7% |5.0875% |1.3875%

2h Frost BIS: | 4% | 5.5% | 1.5%

Unholy BIS: | 5.6% | 7.75 | 2.1% [/table]

The number isn't exactly as striking as say, this tier's bonus disparity, however it exists, and it looks nice ^.^

Off the topic of the future tier bonuses and onto current fights i've been experimenting with an opening that seems to differ what i've come to understand is the "common" opening.

Army

Prepot

Pull

Icy Touch

Plague Strike

normal rotation until trinket procs

Outbreak

UF+Gargoyle

normal rotation

Recently i've been switching Prepot and Army in order to get an army buffed by my prepot. This still gives enough time to have my Outbreak and Gargoyle buffed by the pot but i'm curious if the 4 second duration lost by the army channel is worth it vs the 4 extra seconds of rotation under UF as per the opening listed above.

edit: thx for the table format. I nub.

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On the army specific mechanics, the change to tooltip of it lasting 40 seconds isn't a change but just a tooltip description, thus this 4 piece comes down to a 37.5% increase in duration.

As far as army goes keep in mind that first, as Otou mentioned, while army lasts 40 seconds, it's only active for about 35, as the stupid ghouls take a few seconds before they do anything, which means it's closer to ~42% increase in duration then a 37.5% increase. This is offset by the fact that you'd normally have bloodlust/heroism up for the duration of army, in addition to a pot, trinket or two, and any other cds. These are all likely over by the end of the normal army duration, leaving the ~42% increased duration to be a significantly lower damage increase.

How low? A quick simcraft unholy BiS with army taken out shows us that unholy bursts at 150k, and averages 104k, and dips to about 95k at the 40 second point in a fight. Assuming one armies on the pull, the dmg of army would drop to about ~70% of what it is during the first 40 seconds with a lust, pot, and cds/trinket procs. Another sim with army shows that it averages 81k dps for unholy, and 70% of that would be 56.7k for an extra 15 seconds, or 850k every 10 minutes.

On a fight exactly 10 minutes long, that is a 01.70% increase, on a fight 5 minutes long, it's a 03.31% increase, and on a fight with a 100 second duration, it's a 08.57% increase.

Recently i've been switching Prepot and Army in order to get an army buffed by my prepot. This still gives enough time to have my Outbreak and Gargoyle buffed by the pot but i'm curious if the 4 second duration lost by the army channel is worth it vs the 4 extra seconds of rotation under UF as per the opening listed above.

edit: thx for the table format. I nub.

As far as potting before army, it's a bad idea because army ghouls change dynamically with your stats, meaning that potting after casting army still grants the ghouls the strength boost.

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The Risen Zandalari from the T15 2 pc bonus, is confirmed to be a guardian. It deals the same damage as a normal DK ghoul, and also benefits from Unholy's Mastery.

It works using the newer Real PPM system, at a rate of 1 RPPM. There is no artificial limit on the number of Risen Zandalari spawned.

Real PPM works based on haste, and the time since the last proc chance occurred.

It uses the formula: (RPPM * Haste * SecondsSinceLastProcChance) / 60 seconds = Proc Chance per Damage/Heal

(SecondsSinceLastProcChance is capped at 10)

For instance if you have 45% melee haste, and have yet to use any valid damage/heal abilities. You would have:

  • (1RPPM * 1.45Haste * 10SecondsSinceLastProcChance) / 60 seconds = 24.167% Proc Chance per Damage/Heal

However, RPPM counts up from the last time a proc chance occurred. Let's say you cast a Scourge Strike. Your next damage/heal event 1 second later is a disease tick. The proc chance on that disease tick, is calculated based on the time since your last damage/heal event (Scourge Strike 1 second ago). This happens regardless of whether the Scourge Strike proc'd a Risen Zandalari or not.

  • (1RPPM * 1.45Haste * 1SecondsSinceLastProcChance) / 60 seconds = 2.4167% Proc Chance per Damage/Heal

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GC added some more information:

Death Knight

- We are changing the 4pc Frost / Unholy set bonus from Army of the Dead to Killing Machine and Sudden Doom proc more often. We don't have numbers yet and it's possible they won't work out. In addition to all the concerns mentioned, it was a really valid point that Army of the Dead is hard to use in Raid Finder, where most of our players experience raids. You rarely get countdowns before a pull and players in general are used to yelling at DKs who use Army because they had a bad experience at some point with the ghoul taunt.

In short, it seems we can kiss any set bonus modifying AotD goodbye since they've realized not everyone thinks it gets used well.

Changing it to work on KM and SD has some interesting effects. Since this is the Unholy thread, I'll go over that.

Increasing SD procs grants even more resources through the L75 talent, will perhaps increase Super Timmy's uptime, and also fill in more GCDs. Chances are it'll actually boost haste since more autoattacks mean more procs and all that fun stuff, if you can spend it all.

The 2p being physical damage means mastery might see a decline relative to other stats. Since it's already on the bottom for level 90 though, it doesn't change much.

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Chances are it'll actually boost haste since more autoattacks mean more procs and all that fun stuff, if you can spend it all.
It's more likely to lower the relative value of haste, not raise it. Haste provides four benefits to a death knight. First, it increases your swing speed, giving you more white damage (auto attacks). Second, those extra white attacks give more opportunities for passive abilities to proc. Third, it provides the same benefit to minions. Fourth, it speeds up rune recharging.

The contribution of haste to the first and third of these damage pieces will be the same. But with more free death coils, these will make up slightly less of your total damage. So this lowers the value of haste, but not by much.

The contribution of haste to the second piece will go up slightly. More auto attacks means more chances for sudden doom procs, and a higher proc chance makes this more important.

The fourth piece is where things get interesting. More haste means more runes. Spending more runes means more runic power. More runic power means more death coils. It all adds up to less time waiting to use a damaging ability. Once you become gcd-capped, more haste doesn't help you this way at all. And since you don't have resources available at a steady rate, you're probably already occasionally gcd-capped. More free resources will amplify this effect.

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As of the latest build on the PTR, SS used on blood runes converted into death runes via FeS refreshed as death runes.

After starting with UUFFBB, the normal rotation ends up leaving runes like this:

UUDFDB

UUDDDD

UUFDDD

UUFFDD

At this point, one FeS would use up a D/F pair, but convert both F runes into D, leaving you back at:

UUDDDD

Edit: While reloading did nothing, Relogging has changed rune behavior back to expected. Unable to replicate results at this time.

In addition, the 2-set tier bonus has been brought down to about .4% for both frost and unholy, each minion summoned melees for 500, claws for 1000, and does about 10k during it's 15 seconds uptime.

All testing done with about 50k ap on the PTR, latest build as of this post.

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Patch 5.2 goes Live today, so I'll be updating the Wowhead profiles to reflect Heroic Thunderforged gear as soon as possible. I'll also be updating the meta-gem section to reflect the inclusion of the Capacitive Primal Diamond.

Keep in mind that losing the 3% increased Critical effect (since the Capacitive Diamond doesn't use it) will mean a slight devaluation of the value of the stat, but likely not enough to actually have its place in the stat priority disrupted.

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Apologies if I'm repeating someone, but I haven't seen this in my quick scan of the comments and the front of the post hasn't been updated to reflect this change:

1) Plague Strike now applies both Frost Fever and Blood Plague to a target.

2) Icy Touch now procs Reaping.

This means that when we enter an AoE situation, we no longer want to use Festering Strike to convert our frost runes into death runes. Instead, we'll want to just go ahead and apply diseases with either Outbreak or Plague Strike, then use BB/IT twice in conjunction with Death and Decay before continuing into Blood Boil spam. So the rotation or priority should look kind of as follows:

Diseases (Outbreak or PS), spread with BB (assuming Roiling Blood talent), Death and Decay

IT, BB [if FFBB]

IT, BB [if DFDB, at least one D on cooldown]

DC as needed when reaching RP cap

unholy rune spell as needed (SS/SR/Dark Transformation/DnD)

BB spam [if UUDDDD, one U on cooldown]

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I hate to ask, but in your Best in Slot lists you have Uroe and Zerat as the heroic best in slots, wouldn't the Greatsword of Frozen Hells be a better itemized sword for us?

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I hate to ask, but in your Best in Slot lists you have Uroe and Zerat as the heroic best in slots, wouldn't the Greatsword of Frozen Hells be a better itemized sword for us?

There's been a great deal of confusion about this items due to lack of knowledge about its source. On the PTR, we had a Thunderforged normal (i.e. ilvl 528) version drop off trash, but assumed that heroic versions wouldn't be attainable, since heroic versions of trash drops do not exist outside of the Black Market Auction House.

Now, however, we're getting reports of the sword being a rare shared loot drop off bosses, in the same style as certain items were in the Firelands raid. Thus, while it's entirely possible that Heroic/Heroic Thunderforged versions of this sword do exist, it is likely too unreliable and rare a drop to seriously consider putting on an attainable loot table.

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With the changes to RPPM trinkets and the very real existence of the Festerblight playstyle (covered in Mendenbarr's "Advanced DK tactics" post), it looks like Spark of Zandalar has been displaced by Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun as our BiS trinket. Regardless of whether or not someone is actively pursuing the Festerblight playstyle, Feather's potent proc puts it considerably ahead of any other alternative this tier.

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Unholy Gargoyle mechanics:

30 second duration, 3 minute cooldown, casts gargoyle strike with a base cast time of 2.000 seconds. This scales with the players spell haste linearly, eg. if you have 20% spell haste, the cast time becomes (2/1.2) or 1.666 cast time. However, despite the expected 15 shots with a cast time of 2 and a 30 second duration, gary only manages to get off 11 casts with 0 haste.

Testing at first indicated that, no matter his cast time, he would always get off 11 casts. But then...

[TABLE]Spell haste | Cast Time | Casts

00.00% | 2.000 | 11/10/9

19.08% | 1.679 | 11/11/11

19.18% | 1.678 | 11

21.03% | 1.652 | 11/11

21.41% | 1.647 | 11

21.43% | 1.647 | 11/12

23.31% | 1.622 | 11

23.60% | 1.618 | 11/11/12

24.18% | 1.611 | 12

24.29% | 1.609 | (11) * 8/(12)*4

24.48% | 1.607 | 12

24.88% | 1.602 | 13/14

25.01% | 1.600 | 15/16

25.04% | 1.599 | 12/12/13/14

25.26% | 1.597 | 16

25.39% | 1.595 | 16

27.27% | 1.571 | 11

27.34% | 1.570 | 15

27.36% | 1.570 | 16

27.67% | 1.567 | 14

28.71% | 1.553 | 16/16/16/17

29.64% | 1.543 | (16)*5/15

30.51% | 1.532 | 15/15/16

31.28% | 1.523 | (16)*6

42.77% | 1.401 | 13 (using zerking)

52.00% | 1.315 | 17

62.95% | 1.227 | 16

65.57% | 1.208 | 16

69.66% | 1.179 | 17/17

111.83% | 0.944 | 16 (lv 80)[/TABLE]

Unholy seems to have a haste breakthrough! At this value of spell haste, which SEEMS to be between 27.27 and 27.34, which is 9015 and 9044 haste rating raid buffed, gary starts to scale with haste. This is a major breakthrough, because all of that haste starts to apply to gary at once, and napkin math puts it at as much as a 2-4k dps. This needs more research to find the exact point and confirm the findings. I'll be compiling data, but in-game it's difficult to test every single level of haste.

So here is what we are going to do. Spend 5 minutes to respec to unholy (unless you already are), go to a training dummy, and cast Gargoyle with recount up. Please PRIVATE MESSAGE me the following:

Haste rating.

Spell haste in spellbook.

Cast time of gary, (less digits are ok, easy for me to confirm this by looking at spell haste)

The number of casts gary gets off.

Tips!

The most important numbers are between 9k and 9.1k haste.

Much much higher numbers are also important, to see if there are multiple breakthroughs.

5% spell haste does effect gary.

If you want to test a higher number, try getting a shaman to cast bloodlust on you.

DO NOT use darkmist vortex, it will only be up for part of gary's duration, and screw with the number of casts.

Bloodlust only works if it's up for the entire duration of gary.

The more numbers we have, the better.

Credit for discovery of this little quirk goes to Devodante.

Thanks for the numbers from:

Frozendekay

lilucky136

Nangz

Vyoh

Minxyqt

Zaiku

markkali

php

Discodelya

Jujope

Update:

Still collecting more numbers, but this set of data indicates there is a haste breakpoint, and it's after 27.34%, but I'm still not sure where it starts. Gary's AI works in "ticks", every X ms, he decides what to do. If he finishes a cast, and there isn't a tick for another 300 ms, he'll just derp around and do nothing for that 300 ms. The "breakpoint" appears to be where he finishes a cast right before a tick happens.

Also seeing evidence from multiple places that his first cast always has a time of 2 seconds, regardless of haste. I'm not sure what this indicates, perhaps that it takes him a certain amount of time to scale to his master's stats.

Update 2:

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/318891610425409536

I'm done with this for the time being.

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It's pretty amazing how different .05% haste can cause the gargoyle to get 4 extra hits in. The other haste marks seem a bit high to even worry about but atleast it shows how beneficial the gargoyle can be during hero. Question is if he ever reaches a maximum or if he will keep on going.

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Wouldn't it be a better choice to switch in the Tier15 Chest instead of [iTEM]95038[/iTEM] and replace the Tier15 Legs with the heroic thunderforged version of [iTEM]96551[/iTEM]? Can't find a heroic thunderforged version of it, yet, as wowhead seems to be somekind of slow regarding their respective versions. I may be wrong, but I doubt it at this point, as I ran this already in chardev and I'd, personally, prefer a haste/expertise setpiece above a crit/mastery one, if the offsetpieces are almost on par (except the fact that you'd change two red for two yellow sockets).

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Wouldn't it be a better choice to switch in the Tier15 Chest instead of [iTEM]95038[/iTEM] and replace the Tier15 Legs with the heroic thunderforged version of [iTEM]96551[/iTEM]? Can't find a heroic thunderforged version of it, yet, as wowhead seems to be somekind of slow regarding their respective versions. I may be wrong, but I doubt it at this point, as I ran this already in chardev and I'd, personally, prefer a haste/expertise setpiece above a crit/mastery one, if the offsetpieces are almost on par (except the fact that you'd change two red for two yellow sockets).

Don't forget that the BiS list also changes with Spark of Zandalar being replaced by Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun (i.e. more Hit). I'm skeptical that additional accuracy stats (i.e. the tier chest) would amount to a DPS gain compared to the tier legs which are Crit/Mastery. Then there's also the fact that the Ra-den chest ends up netting more strength overall.

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Personally, I've been seeing the highest dps with this gearlist


neck=amulet_of_the_primal_turtle,id=96429,gems=160str,reforge=hit_haste
shoulders=pauldrons_of_the_allconsuming_maw,id=96573,gems=160str_80str_160haste_120crit,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=exp_haste
back=yellow_dawn_lightningcloak,id=95017,gems=80str_160haste_60haste,enchant=180crit
chest=breastplate_of_the_allconsuming_maw,id=96569,gems=160str_160str_160str_180str,enchant=80all,reforge=exp_crit
wrists=caustic_spike_bracers,id=96476,suffix=340,gems=80str_160haste_160str_60str,enchant=180str
hands=gauntlets_of_the_allconsuming_maw,id=96570,gems=160str_160str_60str,enchant=170str,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii,reforge=hit_haste
waist=cloudbreaker_greatbelt,id=96373,gems=80str_160haste_160str_160str_120crit,reforge=mastery_crit
legs=greaves_of_the_allconsuming_maw,id=96572,gems=80str_160haste_80str_160hit_120str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=mastery_haste
feet=sabatons_of_the_superior_being,id=95012,gems=80str_160haste_80str_160hit_120str,enchant=140mastery,reforge=exp_haste
finger1=radens_ruinous_ring,id=95022,gems=80str_160hit_60str,reforge=exp_crit
finger2=band_of_the_scaled_tyrant,id=96500,gems=160str_60haste,reforge=hit_crit
trinket1=brutal_talisman_of_the_shadopan_assault,id=94508,reforge=exp_haste
trinket2=fabled_feather_of_jikun,id=96470,reforge=hit_haste
main_hand=greatsword_of_frozen_hells,id=96619,gems=80str_160haste_160str_60str,enchant=rune_of_the_fallen_crusader
head=crown_of_the_golden_golem,id=96522,gems=capacitive_primal_80str_160haste_180str

Note the head as the offset. Not only is the golden crown nicely itemized, you also shed 1110 hit rating, which is huge.

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Hi,

I don't understand why you suggest gemming for pure strengh. Your stat weights clearly say that haste is better. Not much but still. As I understand the stat weights, I would put a fierce gem into red sockets and a quick one in yellow. Do I miss something?

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Some stat values:

Unholy T15H is 535 ilevel, with 4 set t15, and legendary meta

Unholy T15N is 522 ilevel, with 4 set t15, and a normal meta

Unholy patchwerk (Single target, no lag, no movement, no AMS, perfect player skill):

screenshot20130331at302.png

You can clearly see that, for the patchwerk values, in 535 gear, 2x haste and 2x crit are both higher than str. In 522 gear, 2x haste is still higher, but 2x crit isn't. If you go back to naxx, and fight patchwerk, and want to be perfect, you should gem 320 haste in yellow, and 80 str 160 haste in red. However, there has not been a patchwerk fight since patchwerk.

Unholy AMS Soaking (Single target, no lag, no movement, 200k ams soak once per minute, perfect player skill):

screenshot20130331at312.png

AMS is present on nearly every single fight this tier, and last tier, and every tier. Magic damage is abundant on most fights, and every dk worth his salt uses AMS to soak up free runic, which increases damage, and changes stat weights. AMS clearly drops the value of haste way, way down, because str and mastery make the free DCs hit harder, and crit makes them do extra damage, but haste makes you lose more resources while AMS soaking. In 535 gear, 2x crit beats str, but 2x haste doesn't come close, and haste is actually lower than mastery and crit. And in 522 gear, and lower, STR reigns supreme.

Unholy Average Skill (Single target, no lag, no movement, no AMS, average player skill):

screenshot20130331at319.png

In all honesty, the average skill of a dk is, well, average. Even the best of the best can make mistakes, press the wrong button, not react perfectly to a proc, and while you are dealing with numerous fight mechanics, you will make mistakes. And many of us are not the best of the best, and make many more mistakes. It's important to take this into account when dealing with stat weights. These don't change stat weights much, everything is a little lower, but they do lower haste in 522 gear the most of all, illustrating it's tricky value.

Unholy Cleave (3 targets, no lag, no movement, no AMS, perfect player skill):

screenshot20130331at328.png

Cleave is commonplace as well in many fights, and needs to be looked at. This is the single target rotation, just with three targets instead of one. Note how haste drops, yet again, well below crit in 535 gear, and is tied with crit in 522 gear. In this example, 2x haste does beat str gemming, but 2x crit beats 2x haste in 535, and in 522, str is well above 2x anything.

Unholy AE (8 targets, no lag, no movement, no AMS, perfect player skill):

screenshot20130408at507.png

Straight up AE is also found very often in raids, and this profile used 8 targets that lasted the whole fight, as well as an AE rotation, blood boil spamming, and disease spreading.

Note how high mastery is, how high crit is, and how low haste is relative to them.

The point being that, in general, strength is more reliable than haste, and stays better in more situations, which is why I suggest gemming for strength.

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With the advent of the Festerblight playstyle for Unholy DKs, DKDots has become a pretty popular addon that many players have come to rely upon (I'd argue that it's a great addon for Blood and Frost DKs too). Unfortunately, 5.2 has introduced some new bugs which occasionally cause the addon to crash or not load.

Fortunately the project has been taken up by Kuren (US-Kilrogg), who has designed a new addon to function identically to DKDots: DKDiseases.

In terms of both functionality and aesthetics the addon is identical to DKDots, though the errors present in the former should not affect this new addon. We hope the community finds this replacement for DKDots useful.

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