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Pathal

The Art of Combat (Version 1)

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I am about as far from an expert in log analysis as Rebecca Black is from being a professional singer. Is it possible to tell from the log how often Rupture was cast at 5CP vs. a lower number of CPs?

Unfortunately this kind of utility for combo points analysis was always missing in WoL. So the answer is no, you can't tell that.

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I know it's much to ask, but could one of you numbercrunching geniouses please post the different caps? Like hit, expertise, mastery etc

Hit and expertise both cap at 2550 (soft cap in expertise's case). Haste and mastery haven't had realistic caps since Wrath.

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Hit and expertise both cap at 2550 (soft cap in expertise's case). Haste and mastery haven't had realistic caps since Wrath.

You're a darling! I was browing the armory and people seemed to have hit frp, 2437 to 2789 so I figured it was somewhere in between. Thanks!

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Does anyone know of the number of mobs required to switch to spamming FoK without blade flurry on as opposed to just doing single target rotation with blade flurry up? There isn't much in here about AoE rotations yet.

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I've heard it to be 8 targets. Though I cannot remember from where I read that. Not the most helpful/useful, but it's a start.

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Should a Gnome rogue cap expertise for the MH only if he is holding a dagger in the OH?

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Is there an EP value of the different racials somewhere since the Touch of Grave nerf ?

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Is there an EP value of the different racials somewhere since the Touch of Grave nerf ?

What touch of the grave nerf?

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Should a Gnome rogue cap expertise for the MH only if he is holding a dagger in the OH?

What do you mean, only MH? There is no way to cap MH expertise as a gnome with a dagger in your offhand and NOT cap offhand as well. Your offhand will be over the cap, but it's necessary since almost all special attacks are based on MH expertise.

My question is the opposite. As a human, what is the value of off hand expertise? When I have a mace/sword in main hand and a non-human bonus weapon in the off, do i just want to cap expertise on mainhand and leave offhand low (2210 cap instead of 2550).

According to simcraft, capping at 2210 in this case and putting the extra points into something else is a dps boost (about 1%). I was wondering if shadowcraft showed the same thing.

Now that I look at it, all slow weapons are fist weapons in this tier, so I guess this is only useful to know while using heroic dungeon or pvp weapons as a filler.

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We don't have a particularly accurate modelling of Touch of the Grave right now. It's set up as an on use racial that deals a predetermined amount of spell damage every 2min. I'll see if someone else has the mechanical data for it now, just as soon as I find the time.

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What touch of the grave nerf?

They added an ICD on it

We don't have a particularly accurate modelling of Touch of the Grave right now. It's set up as an on use racial that deals a predetermined amount of spell damage every 2min. I'll see if someone else has the mechanical data for it now, just as soon as I find the time.

Thanks for the input Pathal.

I looked around a bit on the internet since my modelling skills are close to zero and i found shadowpanther's aep race comparison but i'm almost sure it's pre TOG nerf. Here they are : Rogue Races Chart - ShadowPanther.net

Touch of the grave, as mutilate on Feng and Elegon, made 2.2% and 1.9% of my overall damage. Throughout the logs it's a 2% of my DPS. But i was pretty poorly geared (455ish ilevel) at the time.

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Now shouldn't this be the Rotation:

Ambush, RS, SSx3, Vanish, Prep, Ambush, SSx2, Vanish, Ambush, KS, SnD, RS, Adreneline Rush Shadow Blades, SSx2, Rupture, Eviserate, SSx2, Evis, SSx2, Evis, Etc. ?

This way you are maxing your KS, AR, and SB CD's

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Now shouldn't this be the Rotation:

Ambush, RS, SSx3, Vanish, Prep, Ambush, SSx2, Vanish, Ambush, KS, SnD, RS, Adreneline Rush Shadow Blades, SSx2, Rupture, Eviserate, SSx2, Evis, SSx2, Evis, Etc. ?

This way you are maxing your KS, AR, and SB CD's

Counting the GCDs and the time it takes to use KSp that's nearly 14 seconds without SnD up. That's no good at all, as SnD is probably the biggest passive DPS increase we can give ourselves for the least amount of energy and GCDs spent.

You would also never want to use Prep while in the Vanish state, as Prep uses a GCD and you are not auto attacking while in stealth. The best time to use prep is as soon after Vanish as you can, but you should also wait for a time when you are low enough on energy that the gains during that GCD won't cap you.

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Counting the GCDs and the time it takes to use KSp that's nearly 14 seconds without SnD up. That's no good at all, as SnD is probably the biggest passive DPS increase we can give ourselves for the least amount of energy and GCDs spent.

You would also never want to use Prep while in the Vanish state, as Prep uses a GCD and you are not auto attacking while in stealth. The best time to use prep is as soon after Vanish as you can, but you should also wait for a time when you are low enough on energy that the gains during that GCD won't cap you.

Ahh yes, so there can be a few minor changes, but with the vanishes you are loosing ~ 4 secs total of auto attacking, and I try to use finishers after my KS so I can start lowering its CD

BUt yeah we can throw a SnD in there no problem.

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I'm in the process of optimizing my professions and I've come across this specific item while making a sheet to compare every professions perks : [iTEM]75525[/iTEM]

This is a net +2420 agility bonus compared to non alchemists flasks : [iTEM]76084[/iTEM]

Unless i'm mistaken or misinformed does this mean Alchemy (until epic gems are released) is now one of the two best profession for rogues ?

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This seemed too much overpowered of course... that was bugging me. Thanks for pointing this out, I thought this datamining bug was concerning only trinkets. My bad.

We don't have a particularly accurate modelling of Touch of the Grave right now. It's set up as an on use racial that deals a predetermined amount of spell damage every 2min. I'll see if someone else has the mechanical data for it now, just as soon as I find the time.

If I may ask, do you have any news about it ? I'm really curious about Touch of the grave (Undead racial) VS Epicurean (Pandaren racial) (if we ignore Orc's expertise bonus).

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can anyone clarify the difference between the use of 1.8 dagger and 2.6 sword/axe/mace/fists on OH?

I know that the KS damage would be better off with dual wielding 2.6s, but energy generation from combat potency kinda confuses me.

On the energy generation, since 2.6s have slower atk speed but better proc, they're really supposed to be the same, but is it really?

I was skeptical too, but the tests I've done so far they've come out fairly even, with 2.6 actually gaining more energy (this could just be random though); Therefore, due to the Killing Spree damage, I'm gonna say 2.6 is better for now, unless of course you find a dagger that's a tier above your current OH. I'm using [iTEM]Claws of Gekkan[/iTEM] x2. If you want proof I can compile a bunch of parses into one big picture for you.

Next topic,

T90 - Shuriken Toss, Versatility, Anticipation

I haven't seen anyone discussing it and T90 was up for debate, so let me argue for Anticipation. It comes off as obvious to me, and perhaps to others that Anticipation is the best choice and maybe that's why there isn't too much talk on it. To me, Anticipation isn't necessarily a DPS increaser, more of a DPS saver. While an infinite Redirect sounds pleasant, I don't feel like it's a DPS saver like Anticipation. I will explain what I mean by 'saver' in two situations and a third, awkward point:

Situation 1:

Energy capping may or may not have been an for you during Dragon Soul, depending on your gear, but for me (BIS), it just couldn't be helped in some areas during some fights (thank the WoW gods for new AdR glyph, if only we had it then). With this new glyph, you would have to try to energy cap in order to energy cap, that's how great it is. Cool, I don't energy cap, so what?

Well let's say Bloodlust goes off and we feel like hitting AdR, Shadow Blades and misc. DPS increasing abilities at the same time. Oh boy, you better hope you don't have to watch the boss for 12 seconds, because you're about to be generating a lot of energy and combo points. During this raging burst DPS phase, when you're at 4 combo points, your next ability, that will bring you to 5 combo points, will generate a 6th combo point. Anticipation will take this 6th combo point that would normally be wasted and set it to the side, so that after you Eviscerate or Rupture, you're given it back; This can stack up to 5. Depending when you pop all of your cooldowns you may or may not approach an energy cap during this rage phase. Let's say when I'm at that 6th combo point I'm also at 90 energy and going hot towards 100. I'll Sinister Strike two more times which will leave me at 5 combo points with 5 anticipation charges set to the side. In order to not energy cap and to save DPS, it is safe to speak in terms of 1-10 combo points, rather than 1-5.

Situation 2:

I don't know why you're in this situation, but that's why it's a hypothetical that could happen.

You're in a 5 man and DPS really sucks, so you're going to have to do quite a few DPS cycles. Okay, cycle's are going good, #1 on DPS, when 'ut oh'... [for some reason] you're at 5 combo points, 90 energy and Rupture and Slice and Dice are at 2-3 seconds and you don't want to over lap either of them, or lose time on either, like you would have had to pre-Anticipation. Sinister Strike to 7-9 combo points (whenever rupture/SnD are gonna run out) and refresh Rupture FIRST, then Slice and Dice. No wasted combo points, energy, (de)buff time, or DPS. You have to refresh Rupture first, because, just in case you didn't read, Anticipation points are only given to you after an offensive finisher. If you SnD first, the Anticipation charges will remain there and you may not be able to generate 6 combo points to refresh the 14 second buff (due to early expansion bad gear therefore bad energy regen), hence you lose your Anticipation charges, therefore lose combo points, therefore lose DPS.

Third Awkward Point: Crimson Tempest... There's something weird about Anticipation and Crimson Tempest. I'm not sure if it's a bug, of if it's normal and I'm completely missing something; However, I don't think that I am. Long story short, if you:

Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 0 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 0 (makes sense)

Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 1 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 2 combo points

Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 2 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 4 combo points

Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 3 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 5 combo points

n = any number of combo points, because I can have 5 combo points, and 2 Anticipation charges, recuperate, generate one combo point, Crimson Tempest with that one combo point, and be awarded 4 combo points. Why would you Crimson Tempest with one combo point? I don't know, it's just an example of what happens with this thing.

Anticipation charges award you double combo points for Crimson Tempest. Once you're at 3 combo points, it stops at 5. It does not overlap and give you a 6th (1 Anticipation charge). I don't know why you're awarded double, does anyone? Nothing mentions gaining bonus points when it comes to Crimson Tempest + Anticipation. So whether this mechanic is intended or not, AOE with Anticipation charges on hand will be a significant AOE DPS increase and cycle AOEing energy easier. I'm wondering if this works with Mutilate too, but Combat for life, so I don't care, someone else can try it.

Conclusion:

These are just three good reasons why I argue for Anticipation. I'm certain infinite Redirects are pleasant and useful, but combo points can be managed so you don't need to spam it, if there's a fight that needs it. I haven't even tried Shuriken Toss for PVE, because ... why? I'm only gonna see if it procs crippling poison for PVP.

PS,

Feels good to gem haste again :woop:

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The only information I can find right now is rumors of a 20s ICD, affected by PvP power, and no clear indication of how hard it hits for.

Maybe the SimC crew has the details.

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These are just three good reasons why I argue for Anticipation.

Anticipation is also going to allow you pool CPs for times where you have damage buffs or there is a damage boost on the boss such as a higher state of Bandit's Guile, a trinket proc, a weapon enchant proc, a time when you need to break a shield with damage, etc. All other things being equal, why drop an eviscerate or rupture when you are in no insight or low insight when you can push it off to medium or deep insight? While this is a Combat thread, the mechanic applies elsewhere. Sub will want to pool CPs for Eviscerate Spam during FW. Assassination won't benefit from this as much since you won't want to use Envenom rapidly and overwrite your buff but obviously benefits that spec in the other usual ways. A fight would really need to introduce a level of target switching or time spent at range we haven't seen yet for the other talents to begin to approach the utility and quality of life Anticipation offers.

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Speaking of pooling Anticipation/Combo for higher levels of Insight... Has there finally been a mod written that tracks the "sub-charges" of Insight? I.e. how many more SS/RVS are actually needed to push the next level of Insight? I always found Insight to offer some nice wiggle room for player skill, but counting in my head during a complex encounter can be a bit taxing...

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Speaking of pooling Anticipation/Combo for higher levels of Insight... Has there finally been a mod written that tracks the "sub-charges" of Insight? I.e. how many more SS/RVS are actually needed to push the next level of Insight? I always found Insight to offer some nice wiggle room for player skill, but counting in my head during a complex encounter can be a bit taxing...

When you are at 5 combo points and you then build another one, you apply a buff on yourself called "Anticipation" which then stacks according to how many extra combo points you have saved up.

Using a simple Power Auras visual or any other addon that can customize how you see individual buffs, should get the job done for you.

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I don't know about any mod (but I did not actually search for one), but I am sure you could implement this "charge" counting in WeakAuras. I am talking about Bandit's Guile here, not Anticipation (because I think thats what Omanko was asking for?).

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Yes, I was refering to Insight levels, which come from Bandit's Guile. Anticipation is easy, Insight is not!

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Enchants

Head: No Longer Enchantable

Shoulders: [iTEM][Greater Tiger Claw Inscription][/iTEM] – Crafted by Scribes

Chest: [iTEM][Enchant Chest: Glorious Stats][/iTEM]

Wrists: [iTEM][Enchant Bracer: Agility][/iTEM]

Hands: [iTEM][Enchant Gloves: Superior Expertise][/iTEM] (Combat if not capped)

[iTEM][Enchant Gloves: Superior Mastery][/iTEM] (Assassination Only)

[iTEM][Enchant Gloves: Superior Haste][/iTEM] (Combat if Expertise capped and Subtlety)

Waist: [iTEM][Living Steel Belt Buckle][/iTEM] - Crafted by Blacksmithers

Legs: [iTEM][shadowleather Leg Armor][/iTEM] - Crafted by Leatherworkers

Feet: [iTEM][Enchant Boots: Blurred Speed][/iTEM] (All Specs) OR [iTEM][Enchant Boots: Greater Precision] (if not yellow hit capped)*

Weapon: ATM: [iTEM][Enchant Weapon - Elemental Force][/iTEM] or [iTEM][Enchant Weapon - Windsong][/iTEM]

Endgame:[iTEM][Enchant Weapon: Dancing Steel][/iTEM]

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