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Jazdia

[Feral-Cat] Mists of Pandaria 5.2

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Feral to Balance has not yet been nerfed on live servers. If that rumor isn't completely full of garbage then it's probably one of the other transitions that was nerfed (Resto to Balance?). Contrary to what the tooltip may lead you to believe, all of the bonuses are coded seperately per spec.

@Robosaurus: While it does seem that DoC and HotW are both in a quite a good place, I don't think it'll stay that way for long. For now, most of the top parses are HotW parses because it's easier, but as soon as you replace your melee weapon and it becomes better than your caster weapon, DoC becomes a much more lucrative option. Without changes I think we'll probably only see HotW being so dominant at the beginning and end of tiers.

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What is our bite usage supposed to look like >25%? I'm often presented with the choice of refreshing a rip that has 10+ seconds remaining or using bite - the latter possibly giving me a few seconds of Rip downtime. What's your prerequisite for biting?

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Personally I barely bite at all unless both are 20 sec (meaning I just refreshed rip and got it to 20 sec with 3 shreds).

Even this can be dangerous though, depending on whether tiger's fury comes off cd soon it may be an easier decision.

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What is our bite usage supposed to look like >25%? I'm often presented with the choice of refreshing a rip that has 10+ seconds remaining or using bite - the latter possibly giving me a few seconds of Rip downtime. What's your prerequisite for biting?

Sub 25% you should have zero Rip downtime. FB no longer snapshots your current buffs on the Rip refresh, so if you pop potions, TF, DoC, etc and put up a huge Rip, you can refresh it indefinitely till the boss dies. Definitely better to FB in this instance and, keep in mind, you do not need 5CP to get a fully powered Rip refresh off a FB. A 1CP FB at 25 energy that will refresh a Rip is better than a 5 CP FB at 50 energy.

Edit: Sorry, misread that as <25%. Your question has been answered below.

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You should be able to get a hold of me through EJ just fine as well. I wasn't aware there was any meaningful feral discussion going on over here so I hadn't really checked.

@Jazdia: I'd be interested in seeing what profile you used to run HotW tests, as your scale factors seem to be somewhat (although not drastically) different than what I've gotten.

This is the profile I've been using for T14H BiS HotW: #!./simc chardev=1709 name="Druid_Feral_T14H_HotW" origin="unknown" level - Pastebin.com

And here's a 25k iteration scale factor run of above profile: Simulationcraft Results

More iterations could be done as some of the stats are too close to each other to really be distinguishable (such as if Crit is actually better than Haste at a certain point).

Mine is definitely inferior to yours. I was just happy to get it to work as I was working off a version that did not have HotW support and, when I finally got a pre-release version supporting HotW compiled, I just did a basic implementation and did not sync HotW with Synapse Springs, Potions, or Heroism. Additionally, I did not account for gear reforged for haste, and I did not cancel Wrath casts if the time to finish casting was greater than the time remaining on HotW. Implementing those changes, over 100k iterations, brings me to within 1 - 4% of your stat weightings.

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What is our bite usage supposed to look like >25%? I'm often presented with the choice of refreshing a rip that has 10+ seconds remaining or using bite - the latter possibly giving me a few seconds of Rip downtime. What's your prerequisite for biting?

If I recall correctly even the best (damage-wise) simulationcraft scripts for feral don't have 100% uptime (it was around 90%). Sometimes it's worth squeezing in a FB even if it means few seconds of Rip downtime.

Rough thresholds when it is still beneficial to use FB can be obtained from those scripts.

Alternatively, you can try one of the suggestion addons (the most up-to-date seems to be Ovale with Nerien scripts) which will tell you that in game.

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If I recall correctly even the best (damage-wise) simulationcraft scripts for feral don't have 100% uptime (it was around 90%). Sometimes it's worth squeezing in a FB even if it means few seconds of Rip downtime.

This is correct. You have to remember that when you're considering if you should ferocious bite, the question is not "can I cast a FB here without reducing my Rip uptime?", it should be "Is the amount of rip uptime I lose from casting ferocious bite worth less damage than not ferocious biting at all?". This is why the SimulationCraft rotation will FB all the way down to 4 seconds remaining on Rip (Soul of the Forest plays into this threshold as well, the threshold is higher if you're using a different talent in that tier).

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Tailoring 4000AP for 15s every 60s Cloak Enchant 1000 avg AP bonus or ~340 - 400 Agility. Best when macro'd into Tiger's Fury

You can't "macro" your tailoring cloak enchant into Tiger's Fury - it's a chance on hit, not an on use.

Swordguard Embroidery

Edit: Included quote.

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You can't "macro" your tailoring cloak enchant into Tiger's Fury - it's a chance on hit, not an on use.

Swordguard Embroidery

Edit: Included quote.

Fixed. Thank you.

From the data mined 5.1 Patch Notes:

Mangle now does 500% normal damage plus 78, up from 400% normal damage plus 62.

Rake damage reduced by 15%.

Ravage! now does 950% weapon damage, up from 750%.

Wrath damage and SP scaling increased by 9%.

Shred now does 500% damage plus 78, up from 400% damage plus 62.

From Ghostcrawler on Twitter:

Nearly all data-mined 5.1 class changes are old hotfixes that everyone already has. We haven't made many new 5.1 class changes yet.

I looked into the code of the current version of simulationcraft and it's difficult to say which version is being used as I can't find specific weapon damage multipliers for Mangle, Shred, or Ravage. Since I get the same results from the built in values as when I pull the spell from wowhead, which shows 400% for Mangle and Shred and 750% for Ravage, I am going to assume that it does not use the other values that are, apparently, likely to already have been implemented via hotfix and thus not represented in tooltips.

I adjusted the code of simcraft to give a boost of 25% to the damage of Mangle and Shred, and one of 26,66% to Ravage as well as giving rake a damage multiplier of 0.85. Rerunning the simulation with the same priority list as previously nets me a result that seems roughly an par, in terms of damage and talent choices as before. I'm not certain I implemented it 100% correctly, but the results seem reasonable enough. I did not sim stat weightings though, which I imagine are shifted slightly by this, giving a boost of value to haste, crit, hit, and expertise, and lowering the relative value of Mastery.

What interests me though is, if these changes are not represented in simcraft, how this effects simming for HotW with Wrath spam. 9% is a significant boost, especially since we are gaining such a huge increase to it with HotW.

According to napkin math, it would end up resulting in almost a 1% flat dps increase overall for a HotW + SotF spec.

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Keep in mind the impending HotW nerf http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6863976345:

While we aren’t always able to provide advance warning when an ability changes, there’s still some time before this change goes into effect, and we wanted to offer affected players a chance to plan their strategies appropriately in the meantime.

The following changes are currently planned for retuning the Druid talent, Heart of the Wild:

[ul][li]The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%.[/li][li]The agility bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Balance, Restoration, and Guardian Druids in Cat Form will soon be changed to +110%. It was previously +50% for Guardian Druids, and +200% for Balance and Restoration Druids.[/li][/ul]

Currently, the change is expected to go into effect during next Tuesday’s maintenance.

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I had not seen that. That kind of renders the entire discussion regarding Wrath moot from the standpoint of it being the clear winner in terms of max, overall, dps. That said, the increase of Wrath SP scaling by 9% becomes much more valuable with the decrease in HotW scaling. Napkin math places the dps loss at between 4.5% and 6% for SotF, depending on your other talent.

DoC takes a slight hit with the reduced value of Rake, as the 25% boost doesn't give quite as much dps and spending DoC procs on direct damage abilities is not optimal. Rough napkin math places the dps loss at just under 1000 dps lost in optimal conditions which is less than a 1% loss.

Nature's Vigil, however, gains considerably in simulations, gaining right around 4% - 5% in dps. I'm now showing it (NV + Incarnation) as within 1% difference in overall dps when compared to DoC + SotF with NV+Incarnation coming out ahead.

It's also within about 4% of SotF+HotW and Wrath spamming.

It's looking like talent choices just got a whole lot less obvious.

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...

It's also within about 4% of SotF+HotW and Wrath spamming.

It's looking like talent choices just got a whole lot less obvious.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You mean NV+ Incarnation is 4% ahead of SotF + HotW or 4% behind?

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I guess MMO-Champion didn't do a good enough job of explaining, so let me be clear: All of the datamined changes have been implemented both on live and in SimulationCraft for weeks. All of the information that was datamined was incorrectly "flagged" as changes because of the way the hotfixes were applied, when in fact nothing has changed at all.

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I guess MMO-Champion didn't do a good enough job of explaining, so let me be clear: All of the datamined changes have been implemented both on live and in SimulationCraft for weeks. All of the information that was datamined was incorrectly "flagged" as changes because of the way the hotfixes were applied, when in fact nothing has changed at all.

But the HotW change wont go into effect until tues maint. At least that's what the blue post said. So I think he's referring to how things sim out after that change goes live.

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Yes, the HotW change will indeed go live next week, but that doesn't mean that the other specs will have increased or lowered dps.

In the end, after the HotW change we should have (correct me if I'm wrong) DoC coming out ahead while being a bit harder to pull off perfectly. HotW should still come some % behind. NV isn't buffed nor nerfed and should stay the lower dps option, as it is now.

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Based on simulations (with the T14H simc script I have been refining), using only the passive bonus from HotW does 4.1% less dps then DoC while NV does 3.7% less.

Note: I am still working on the simc script in conjunction with my Ovale script, and once I run out of things to test/change, I will be checking it into simulationcraft. If anyone wants to use it, I keep it posted at Fluiddruid.

Edit: all testing is with SotF

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When I run simulations using Simcraft, I don't see any information regarding damage done from healing touch casts while NV is active. I did some napkin math and it should be worth about 400-600 dps depending on how big your heals are and fight length. If we are min/maxing, weaving in instant cast healing touches should be included in any rotation while NV is active.

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Since it hasn't been mentioned, for Elegon I highly recommend Feline Swiftness over Wild Charge. Charge works inconsistently enough to justify it. Maybe something to add to the tips/tricks section until it's addressed via hotfix/patch.

I disagree. You just have to realize that you have more than one kind of charge now. Here's how I use it there:

1. Cat-charging to the add when he's about to explode to reset my stacks.

2. Bear-charging to Elegon after killing sparks near the pillar or when I helped with damage on the add or after the floor reappears.

3. Staying on Elegon as long as I can and then Tauren-leaping to my ally near the pillar.

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I have a question I hope to get an answer too. Crystal of Insanity - Item - World of Warcraft, is an item that works like elixirs, giving a 500 all stats buff. The strangest thing about this is, when I have this on and then try to use a +1k agi flask, the system tells me I can't because there is a more powerfull buff active. Thus I have to remove the 500stats buff manually and apply the flask then. I was wondering why the system would prevent me to use my flask when I have that items buff active. After all, agi is much better for a kitty. Sure, the 500 stamina is handy to have, and 500 strenght is a nice AP buff, but still Agi is our strongest stat. Should I keep using the item's buff then? Or just do as normal and use flasks?

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You should use the flask, no matter what. The feral cat has no real synergy with strength, intell or stamina whatsoever. The buff count as battle and guardian elixir (same as flasks) so I think the game tells you that the buff is stronger because the sum of +500 all stats is larger than 1k agi but you'll benefit far more from the flask. The wow engine isn't that good at theorycrafting. :)

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I disagree. You just have to realize that you have more than one kind of charge now. Here's how I use it there:

1. Cat-charging to the add when he's about to explode to reset my stacks.

2. Bear-charging to Elegon after killing sparks near the pillar or when I helped with damage on the add or after the floor reappears.

3. Staying on Elegon as long as I can and then Tauren-leaping to my ally near the pillar.

Are you not having pathing issues at all? Provided it worked solidly Wild Charge would easily be the go to choice. The third one isn't a point I'd considered at all though, so thanks.

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When I run simulations using Simcraft, I don't see any information regarding damage done from healing touch casts while NV is active. I did some napkin math and it should be worth about 400-600 dps depending on how big your heals are and fight length. If we are min/maxing, weaving in instant cast healing touches should be included in any rotation while NV is active.

I ran some sims on this today. Here is a link to my analysis (once I fixed it): The Fluid Druid - View topic - Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Script

Even though the damage from NV heals are not in simc, the amount of healing done by the HTs is, so you can estimate the damage. On a T14H profile, I measured it at around a 160 dps up (from a base of 117357 error 36.86). This is a 0.14% dps increase which is tiny, but it is an up.

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