tastysnack

[WW] 5.4 -Siege of the Fist

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The piece in question for me was a jump from http://www.wowhead.com/item=99156">Headpiece of Seven Sacred Seals to Hood of Blackened Tears. I then after noticing the change went from Leggings of Seven Sacred Seals to Riou's Vigilant Leggings for my further testing.

As to stats Im currently at the white crit cap so I have been balancing into haste and out of crit slightly. The stats on the items arent perfect, but I havent finished simming for mastery levels and seeing if there is a swing in secondaries somewhere that I could hit as a balance. ATM my stat set up is crit to white hit cap > haste > crit > mastery. 

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As to stats Im currently at the white crit cap so I have been balancing into haste and out of crit slightly. The stats on the items arent perfect, but I havent finished simming for mastery levels and seeing if there is a swing in secondaries somewhere that I could hit as a balance. ATM my stat set up is crit to white hit cap > haste > crit > mastery. 

 

Isn't it better to get your haste to your prefered level, and then all into crit, even if that means going over the white crit cap?

As far as I know haste is still the best stat, but only if you can use the energy it gives you, so once you reached your prefered haste level you can go all for crit. Crit after white crit cap is still worth about 82% of the crit before the cap (cause melee does around 18% of our damage), so it is still very good.

 

Edit: Just checked your armory, and our stats are really very similar, even though you are 2 ilvl's higher than I am. The difference is that I'm using TEB and you have AoC trinket, which explains me having the same amount of stats while being 2 ilvl's lower.

Edited by Eyedore

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Isn't it better to get your haste to your prefered level, and then all into crit, even if that means going over the white crit cap?

This is just from personal experience, but I found a larger increase when I focused on crit over haste for secondaries. I've gotten quite used to using Chi Brew, and since I'm using AoC I can afford to have slightly lower haste atm. If/when I get a H TeB, Id get a little more haste to balance it out.

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Hi guys, I'm a brewmaster tank. 11/14h 10m. Here's armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmourne/notruneheal/advanced

 

I often play windwalker for 1 tank fights, but there's not much (on heroic, that is) where we actually 1 tank anything.

 

I've gotten quite a lot of offspec gear, since protector tokens drop like crazy.

 

I do enjoy windwalker, and I do know the basics of it, but I have a few questions.

 

I have Assurance of Consequence (0/2 upgraded because like I said, I'm mainly BrM).

 

It's an upgrade over other trinkets just from it's proc, since I've had kinda bad luck.

 

I know it's not that flash of a trinket.

 

My problem is that I use chi brew, and with so much energizing brew, I seem to be always:

Capping Energy

Having 2 charges of chi brew for about 15 seconds at the start of a fight

Having 2 charges of chi brew for about 30 seconds at the start of a fight with bloodlust

Occasionally capping chi

Having to jab when I have combo breaker procs to avoid capping energy

Occasionally capping tigereye brew (!) when mastery procs lots

 

Also, I find it very hard to use fists of fury. By that, I mean I very rarely find myself in situations where I won't be capping energy, delaying RSK, or not using combo breaker procs.

 

It's a shame because FoF seems like it does decent damage, and the cooldown of it is 17.4 seconds with AoC.

 

Also find it hard to actually get globals to use Chi Wave in. Should I swap to chi burst since it feels like I only manage to get it in every 25 seconds or so.

 

Am I doing something wrong, or is this just a result of having AoC + (4pc + chi brew )

 

Have I got too much haste/mastery or something? The way I see it, with the 4pc, it basically means mastery = mastery + a tiny bit of haste.

 

Also, some of my gear is gemmed for brewmaster (ie full full crit)

-neck

-belt

-rings

-staff

-cape

-hands 

-legs

-feet

Edited by Runeheal

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Some of the quick pointers would be starting to gem any off pieces you get around your WW set. Common sense yes, but that much crit will be wasted in heroic gear. You will exceed your white crit cap (60%) so it will diminish slightly in value. You would want mostly agi to help get those bigger weapon damage numbers, but as always sim yourself and check how to best optimize.

Your haste is actually under what I would say is the optimal range. Around 10-11k is where most of the high end WW monks are sitting at atm. Its a bit personal on the exact number you go for based on latency, and how much you are intending to optimize strictly for each fight. IE fights where you lose 2-3 seconds dps time on a semi regular basis for w/e reason you would want less haste. If you keep capping gcds at that low haste you just need to work on the rotation more. Make sure you arent hitting EB exactly on cd if it isnt going to be a gain. Ive talked to a couple people who do that with the cdr trinket, and it wastes potential resources. Even if it sits off cd for 3-6 seconds its better to not waste what you get out of it. 

Chi Wave should take priority over a standard BoK filler so that will come with more practice. 

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I'm sorry I went back a few pages but must have missed it.  

Is the reason you recommend 10-11k(is this buffed or unbuffed) haste that you don't use ascension any longer?  

Is Chi Brew the go to talent then?  

I was finding with Ascension and like 6k(unbuffed) haste I was finding it hard to blow through all my resources regularly.  

( FoF, Chi Wave( is this the best option for this tier? ), Energizing Brew ) 
I'm around 530 ilvl but have lucked out to have a 548 weapon also I have an Assurance of Consequences now.  

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I'm sorry I went back a few pages but must have missed it.  

Is the reason you recommend 10-11k(is this buffed or unbuffed) haste that you don't use ascension any longer?  

Is Chi Brew the go to talent then?  

I was finding with Ascension and like 6k(unbuffed) haste I was finding it hard to blow through all my resources regularly.  

( FoF, Chi Wave( is this the best option for this tier? ), Energizing Brew ) 

I'm around 530 ilvl but have lucked out to have a 548 weapon also I have an Assurance of Consequences now.  

 Basically yes. Chi Brew, once the Hot Fix went in to tie Chi Brew Chi generation to our mastery, the change made the talent a bit too powerful and is now the go-to talent for overall Chi generation. However due to the lack of haste from switching to Chi Brew, you are still going to get haste starved waiting on energy for Jab and/or Rushing Jade Wind. To that end you increase your haste to compensate. That is why people say for those who do not have the Assurance to go 10-11k haste rating (there is no buff or unbuff option, just unbuff). If you are using the Assurance, to drop about 1500 or so Haste Rating from the 10-11k haste rating.

Edited by Hinalover

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I'm approaching 570 ilvl this coming week (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Jazzy/advanced) and I'm wondering about some old math that was going around about TTP and TED. Do you guys think grabbing a Normal Thok's Tail Tip would be just as good, if not better, than grabbing a Normal TED or even Heroic AoC? Kind of confused on trinkets and what to grab. My DK Tank still needs TTP so I'm not gonna get it any time soon and since I can't coin it.....

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A heroic Thoks will certainly be bis for you and a noticeable dps gain. You will want to play with sims and see when it becomes enough of an increase to your monk to warrant taking over any str classes that may want it. From some sims I've done on the matter at roughly ~575 gs it becomes enough of an increase to be a comparable roll to your other would be recipients. Normal should still be an increase over a H AoC as that trinket is vastly over valued by many. The proc is all that it really gives you. But in a normal I'd run your own sims with it just to see how it turns out. At a quick glance at your gear Id say the Thoks would certainly be better than normal TeD.

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Hi there ! I've been reading these forums for quite a long time now, it's time to write some words...

 

It seems a lot of monks trust the sims from SimCraft, although it appears that it doesn't take into consideration the cd reduction from AoC. Even with FoF set as the top priority, the cycle shows two casts separated by 25-26s minimum. Does anybody ever saw this inside his sims ?

 

Now, without talking about sims, I'm ok with the fact that the trinket is less efficient in some encounters where we cannot cast FoF on cd, but the dps gain of the trinket can't be "only the proc". Celestalon also said in recent tweets that WW monks should try to use FoF on cd to be optimal, so reducing its cooldown must be a good thing...

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Hi there ! I've been reading these forums for quite a long time now, it's time to write some words...

 

It seems a lot of monks trust the sims from SimCraft, although it appears that it doesn't take into consideration the cd reduction from AoC. Even with FoF set as the top priority, the cycle shows two casts separated by 25-26s minimum. Does anybody ever saw this inside his sims ?

 

Now, without talking about sims, I'm ok with the fact that the trinket is less efficient in some encounters where we cannot cast FoF on cd, but the dps gain of the trinket can't be "only the proc". Celestalon also said in recent tweets that WW monks should try to use FoF on cd to be optimal, so reducing its cooldown must be a good thing...

 

It could be any number of reasons why it is still FoF is not being used more often in your Sim

 

a) You have too much haste and it's saying you will be energy capping while FoF is being cast

b ) try taking out some of the conditions for FoF (such as RSK is X seconds from coming off cooldown)

Edited by Hinalover

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First action after auto_attack is FoF, with no condition. So you're saying that you see the cooldown reduction in your sims ?

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First action after auto_attack is FoF, with no condition. So you're saying that you see the cooldown reduction in your sims ?

 

I'm looking at the code and Fist of Fury is supposedly implemented into the cooldown reduction list. So it SHOULD be working.

 

https://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/source/browse/engine/player/sc_unique_gear.cpp#2961

{ MONK_WINDWALKER,     { "energizing_brew", "fist_of_fury", "flying_serpent_kick", "fortifying_brew", "zen_meditation", 0, 0 } },
Edited by Hinalover

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It may seem dumb, but it's "fists_of_fury", isn't it ? At least in the WW profile. I don't know if the name is used as it is to take the cd reduction into consideration.

Edited by Beryle

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It may seem dumb, but it's "fists_of_fury", isn't it ? At least in the WW profile. I don't know if the name is used as it is to take the cd reduction into consideration.

 

Your right....I'll get that fixed; as well as update that list with the Brewmaster cooldown reductions (though only 3 of the abilities are modeled at this point).

 

Though this fix will not make it until the next release; unless you use a mac, and thus can get the nightly build.

 

Edit:

 

Ok it's fixed on SimC; after a bit of getting TortoiseGIT to work since TortoiseSVN stopped working for me. :\

Edited by Hinalover

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Hey there, after reading trough tons of forums I still cant decide which race (horde) to pick for endgame PvE windwalker monk. The main reason why I cant decide is that I am not sure how much dps boost does trolls berserking provides.

 

I am deciding between troll or pandaren, was looking into orc too, but pandaren provides slightly more AP trough fight than orc. 

 

Of course 5% higher dmg against beasts is amazing, but since bosses usually arent beasts (only thok this tier), only matters how good berserking is for WW.

 

Looking forward to your opinions. 

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Does it really matter ? Hardcore progress has been over for a long time now, and all racials are going to change in WoD. You should wait to see what kind of racial Blizzard is going to give us, although it's unlikely that they will be as important as they are now in my opinion.

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Hello, guys. Forgive me, im russian ww and english is hard for me. So, i cant find some topic about my trouble.

At now, a have 4 T16 pieces, and head from immersus.

Also, i have 2 580 items.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=105506

http://www.wowhead.com/item=105452

 

The trouble is, should i breake my 4T16? Or wuts the trend right now 4T16 or 2T16+3x580. Will i take more dmg with 3x580 than 4T16. I heard, elitist is amazing source of wows math, did  this calculation made?If it did, could u plz gimme link for this topic.

 

3x580: -30 agi

            7.48% hit

            +914 crit rating 

            12800 haste

should i get hit over 7.5%? i ll lose 97 crit rating?(+817 than 4T16)

 

4T16: same haste, 2550 hit, and up 30 agi

 

 

Thx.

Edited by suSSlik

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Hey there, after reading trough tons of forums I still cant decide which race (horde) to pick for endgame PvE windwalker monk. The main reason why I cant decide is that I am not sure how much dps boost does trolls berserking provides.

 

I am deciding between troll or pandaren, was looking into orc too, but pandaren provides slightly more AP trough fight than orc. 

 

Of course 5% higher dmg against beasts is amazing, but since bosses usually arent beasts (only thok this tier), only matters how good berserking is for WW.

 

Looking forward to your opinions. 

 

In SoO it is between Orcs and Pandaren for best horde race. If you are using the protectors fists/paragons axes, then orcs will pull ahead slightly, due to the free exp, and cd to stack with TeB. Otherwise Pandaren pull ahead as the 300 static agility will provide a better gain than a troll's Berserking.

 

Hello, guys. Forgive me, im russian ww and english is hard for me. So, i cant find some topic about my trouble.

At now, a have 4 T16 pieces, and head from immersus.

Also, i have 2 580 items.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=105506

http://www.wowhead.com/item=105452

 

The trouble is, should i breake my 4T16? Or wuts the trend right now 4T16 or 2T16+3x580. Will i take more dmg with 3x580 than 4T16. I heard, elitist is amazing source of wows math, did  this calculation made?If it did, could u plz gimme link for this topic.

 

3x580: -30 agi

            7.48% hit

            +914 crit rating 

            12800 haste

should i get hit over 7.5%? i ll lose 97 crit rating?(+817 than 4T16)

 

4T16: same haste, 2550 hit, and up 30 agi

 

 

Thx.

 

The prevailing theory is 2p with 3x 580 off pieces. Said off pieces being Immersius helm, and Norushen chest/gloves. Dropping to 3p with 2 WF should in theory be a dps gain, but it will be close enough that you will need to run a personal sim to get the EXACT numbers you should go for. Seeing as the IJ shoulders are one of your WF pieces, the H tier would be a better piece than the WF version of them. If you have a normal shoulder tier then drop them for your WF shoulders, as the agi gain would offset the loss of 4p

Edited by Arathius

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Hi folks. I know many of you are now focused on the expansion that’s coming, but I could really use some help.

 

I’ve been reading some of the information here, learning about the haste cap with AoC, soft crit, etc., but where I’m struggling is my rotation. I’m still trying to wrap my head around using SimC (So many graphs and numbers and I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed), so I’m having trouble determing what specifically is wrong.

 

SimC says I should be averaging about 190k dmg based on my current gear itemization (2 T16, 6 warforged at 567, 1 heroic 574, LFR AoC). Armory here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ysera/Cristine/simple  However, I know this is wrong because I average closer to 200k in real fights. 

 

 My normal rotation is: ChiB, TP, Jab, RSK, Jab (to achieve 4 chi), 2 BoK.

 

This is the standard I follow throughout the fight. Occasionally, I add ChiW and FoF, and I mean only occasionally. I know there’s a priority here, so that’s why I ask. I know TP is a must to maintain, as is RSK and BoK. But where and how do you integrate FoF and ChiW on a fight like Immersius, for example? Can you guys share your usual rotation on Immersius?

 

Thanks in advance. Your help would be immense and appreciated. 

Edited by Chickenbuttlips

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An answer to the last 2 posts would be really nice. Sort of died off. A general rotation with rjw and single target dps both with and without SEF would be nice. Especially openers in fights such as Gal and HGarrosh.

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Theres no rotation, more of a priority system:

Keep TP buff up.

Use RSK as soon as it is off CD.

Jab as builder/EH if you won outheal with it (+-80% HP)

For combo breaker: Better cap energy than lose BoK proc, so you should always use it before jabing again. Doesnt apply for TP tho, you can delay that if you would cap energy.

Use chi wave on CD but dont cap energy and dont delay RSK cause of it. (So sometimes you will find yourself not using for few globals even tho it came off CD)

Use BoK if you will get enough chi by the time RSK comes off CD.

 

Thats the basics you should do *fine* with. If you wanna get more pro:

Use FoF in your rotation but only if: 1, wont cap energy. 2, wont delay RSK cause of it. 3, Your TP buff wont fall off. 4, you AND your target wont move for the next 3 secs.

Then just use EB every time you get low on energy, use TeB when on 10+ stacks and try to stack it with other procs or CDs but ALWAYS use it at 18+ stacks.

Use chi brew to get more FoFs into you rotation or if you fail to save your chi for RSK, but dont use it when you are at 17+ chi since you can waste stacks that way.

 

Those are the basics from top of my head.

 

When you are using SEF, just put it on the target you are not attacking yourself and make sure to cast TP and RSK asap since they have they own version of these.

 

 

SimC says I should be averaging about 190k dmg based on my current gear itemization (2 T16, 6 warforged at 567, 1 heroic 574, LFR AoC). Armory here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ysera/Cristine/simple  However, I know this is wrong because I average closer to 200k in real fights. 

 

You should do more DMG since I am usually 200k+ with my WW monk in PvP gear (3,5% hit, 5% exp)

Edited by Biffie

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Offtopic of 5.4,

has anyone who has been playing windwalker in WoD or anything doing race testing? I'm curious to see in terms of min/maxing what exactly as of now the best race for alliance for windwalker will be. It's looking like gnome with the haste buff and energy buff? any input from anyone? 

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