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Rosvall

Mists of Pandaria 5.2.x Raid Mechanics

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Also regarding Lei Shen (there are so many abilities on this fight! agh!)

Diffusion Chain doesn't appear to target melee (except during Intermission...) so don't worry about spreading out.

Discharge damage - Cloak immunes, feint reduces

Static Shock - You can solo one with feint (w elusiveness), but you will probably need another external CD of some sort. I was successfully doing it with a Hand of Sacrifice (could also use Smoke Bomb, I suppose). Taking it without another CD will either kill you have you very very near death. Just be careful.

Random tip: I found the best time to use Smoke Bomb was either when everyone was stacked outside of a conduit taking Discharge damage, or when everyone was stacked up for Ball Lightning.

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For whats its worth; in 25 man (normal) you can solo-interrupt all Sand Bolts by Sul on the Council of Elder fight, using Deadly Throw when Kick is on cooldown. Saves healers' mana.

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Heroic Jin Rokh - you can cloak a second before Ionization and not get the debuff (turn big wigs on to exaggerate and pop it when she is at "1" in the countdown)

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For whats its worth; in 25 man (normal) you can solo-interrupt all Sand Bolts by Sul on the Council of Elder fight, using Deadly Throw when Kick is on cooldown. Saves healers' mana.

Mind numbing poison any use here?

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For whats its worth; in 25 man (normal) you can solo-interrupt all Sand Bolts by Sul on the Council of Elder fight, using Deadly Throw when Kick is on cooldown. Saves healers' mana.

Just confirmed this in LFR and will definitely use it in my 10m raid. Being able to solo manage Sul will make this fight MUCH easier.

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Mind numbing poison any use here?

Not sure. I can test this lockout. However, I did not feel the need for it. I was merely toying around with Shuriken Toss Subtlety ranged rogue spec, and found out I managed either 1 + refresh* or 2 Deadly Throws per Sul's cast, which meant I didn't use kick much at all; I saved kick for whenever I messed up (shadowstep -> kick) - it was more than manageable without reducing his cast speed. You get a feeling for his casting frequency rather quickly.

* rupture / Slice.

Remember; Deadly Throw interrupts at 3, 4 and 5 combo points.

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Update: Heroic Jin'Rokh The Breaker

Just downed him last night and had a chance to test Cloak of Shadows + Ionization.

End Result: DO NOT cloak Ionization once you've already been afflicted by the debuff. If you do, it will consider it as getting dispelled and drop the AoE right under your feet potentially wiping the raid.

What you can do instead is use Cloak of Shadows as Ionization is getting cast to immune the application.

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Update: Heroic Jin'Rokh The Breaker

Just downed him last night and had a chance to test Cloak of Shadows + Ionization.

End Result: DO NOT cloak Ionization once you've already been afflicted by the debuff. If you do, it will consider it as getting dispelled and drop the AoE right under your feet potentially wiping the raid.

What you can do instead is use Cloak of Shadows as Ionization is getting cast to immune the application.

Darn beat me to it.

Lightning Strike:

- Feint + Elusiveness works on getting hit by the balls during Lightning Strike.

Conduction Explosion:

- If someone is going to explode, though hard to tell until your actually dead, you can preemptively feint in case an explosion does occur.

-Also Horridon Heroic-

Direcall - Can be feinted with elusiveness, and as its physical, cloak glyph can be helpful. Final phase Dire Call REALLY hurts, so rotating feints, smoke bombs, and cloaks will really help healers.

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[R]Primordius:

- Cloak of shadows is extremely buggy, I've caught it on multiple attempts removing my friendly buffs, its safe to assume without more information that cloak of shadows should never be used on this fight.

- Can feint w/ or without elusiveness all mutated abilities gained by Primordius.

- When stepping over Mutagenic Pool, you can feint the damage only w/ elusiveness on.

----More info on heroic coming soon----

Heroic Tortos:

- TIP: Prepull, if timed correctly, you can obtain 5 combo points or even 5 Anticipation charges on the humming crystals pre pull.

- Quake should ALWAYS be feinted, as chances are without a raid external you will lose your crystal buff, whether at full or not. Safest to feint w/ elusiveness.

As per the

"-Feint works to reduce Quake damage assured it won't destroy the bubble.

(Not sure how the bubble determines 75% health . If it snapshots you can roll a large absorb provided it doesn't drop using feint)"

I can assure you it doesn't drop using feint. And it won't destroy the bubble.

--More info on heroic Megaera coming soon.---

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[R]Primordius:

- Cloak of shadows is extremely buggy, I've caught it on multiple attempts removing my friendly buffs, its safe to assume without more information that cloak of shadows should never be used on this fight.

Its not "buggy". A normal dispel would also remove all buffs. But yea dont use it most likely.

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Its not "buggy". A normal dispel would also remove all buffs. But yea dont use it most likely.

The only reason I used the word buggy was it just seems overly unreliable. For example, while we were quick clearing through Throne, on primordius i was testing stuff out since its faceroll now, and the first time i cloaked, it removed all my positive debuffs and became unmutated. The second time I cloaked was on I believe caustic gas, had all 5 positive buffs with a minute and a half left, and was fully mutated, i immuned the gas explosion but kept the 5 buffs and my mutated form.

There may indeed be something I am missing, but I do apologize as "buggy" was not the correct term to use. Should have use unreliable. Sorry for confusion.

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Blizzard has applied a few fixes regarding primordius over the past few days/weeks, since mw monks couldn't use revival at all, and certain class-specific dispells proved to be exploitable (mostly warlocks and owlkin symbiosis)

Today (03/19/13) cloak didn't remove any debuffs for me either. It would be great to know whether it only ignores beneficial debuffs though, and still removes detrimental ones.

Horridon HC:

While it certainly isn't advisable, the fixating Primal Direhorns attacks can be dodged, so using Evasion as a last resort can net you some DPS since you won't have to knockback it (using it together with cheat death makes it quite alot safer to use). Vanishing while being fixated makes the Direhorn attack someone else (most likely a tank or healer) but you regain aggro as soon as you attack it once.

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Blizzard has applied a few fixes regarding primordius over the past few days/weeks, since mw monks couldn't use revival at all, and certain class-specific dispells proved to be exploitable (mostly warlocks and owlkin symbiosis)

Today (03/19/13) cloak didn't remove any debuffs for me either. It would be great to know whether it only ignores beneficial debuffs though, and still removes detrimental ones.

Horridon HC:

While it certainly isn't advisable, the fixating Primal Direhorns attacks can be dodged, so using Evasion as a last resort can net you some DPS since you won't have to knockback it (using it together with cheat death makes it quite alot safer to use). Vanishing while being fixated makes the Direhorn attack someone else (most likely a tank or healer) but you regain aggro as soon as you attack it once.

Cloak in theory is not supposed to remove anything, whether it be beneficial or determinental debuffs. The issue im seeing, and am still seeing is, sometimes cloak is removing stuff. Another class had the same issue with another cooldown, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was.

But yea 100%, cloak SHOULD not remove anything.

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Cloak has ever since it has been implemented back in TBC removed certain debuffs while it left others ontouched, and it has almost always been able to remove debuffs that were dispellable aswell as prevent their application. This didn't seem to be intended so in Cataclysm we saw a drastic change, forcing us to use the immune-part of CoS to get a similar effect, something which has changed again in MoP. While I wholeheartedly agree that in a raid environment it (and a few other spells aswell) shouldn't be able to prevent or remove certain debuffs, it worked on quite alot of encounters in the past years and still does so today, so it is hard to argue that it isn't suppoed to work as a dispell.

In the current tier there are a whole bunch of debuffs CoS removes or prevents.

Jin'Rokh: prevents/removes Ionization, still triggers it when removing

Horridon: removes Blazing Sunlight, Venom Bolt Poison, Deadly Plague, but does NOT remove Hex of Confusion.

Council: removes Sandtrap Slow/Roots,

Megaera: removes Cinders, still triggers the ground effect

Ji-Kun: removes Slimed Debuff (only the one increasing the damage, not the DoT itself)

Animus: removes Matter Swap, still triggers the damage but also immunes the damage one himself takes (so dispelling it with only 1 second left is advisable, as the other target will only lose 10% hp that way)

Qon: removes Scorched

I may have missed some, but basically every spell that is dispellable in the current tier can be removed with cloak. In the very same way it behaved on Primordius: Unless I'm mistaken there have been two changes ever since the first PTR testing. Dispells, most noteworthy revival, used to dispell every debuff at once, which was detrimental since it removed not only the stat-altering ones, but also the full mutation. It then got changed (this one made it to the release) so dispells would remove all debuffs except for the full mutation. Sometime between friday and saturday in the first ID they hotfixed it so dispells wouldn't work at all on beneficial debuffs, and cloak followed the exact same limitations. What I'm still unsure about is whether dispells in general can still remove debuffs as long as the target isn't fully mutated, or only remove detrimental ones. I am almost certain that cloak will follow the same limitations though.

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Unless it's changed, on Ji-Kun I found that cloak removed the Slimed DoT and didn't apply the increasing damage debuff when cloaked.

Cloaking while standing in a pool causes you to not take damage from it, but also doesn't remove the pool. I found that, when nessecary, I could easily soak up two pools at once with feint + elusiveness and then instantly cloak off the slimed DoT.

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There's two versions of the slimed debuff, one being a DoT, which you'll only receive after intercepting the green stuff in mid-air, and one that increases damage taken by the pools/DoT by 10% each time you intercept or soak one of the pools. Last time I used it (first normalmode ID), cloak didn't remove the DoT, only the increased damage taken, but it makes sense they changed it so it would remove both.

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Cloak has ever since it has been implemented back in TBC removed certain debuffs while it left others ontouched, and it has almost always been able to remove debuffs that were dispellable aswell as prevent their application. This didn't seem to be intended so in Cataclysm we saw a drastic change, forcing us to use the immune-part of CoS to get a similar effect, something which has changed again in MoP. While I wholeheartedly agree that in a raid environment it (and a few other spells aswell) shouldn't be able to prevent or remove certain debuffs, it worked on quite alot of encounters in the past years and still does so today, so it is hard to argue that it isn't suppoed to work as a dispell.

In the current tier there are a whole bunch of debuffs CoS removes or prevents.

Jin'Rokh: prevents/removes Ionization, still triggers it when removing

Horridon: removes Blazing Sunlight, Venom Bolt Poison, Deadly Plague, but does NOT remove Hex of Confusion.

Council: removes Sandtrap Slow/Roots,

Megaera: removes Cinders, still triggers the ground effect

Ji-Kun: removes Slimed Debuff (only the one increasing the damage, not the DoT itself)

Animus: removes Matter Swap, still triggers the damage but also immunes the damage one himself takes (so dispelling it with only 1 second left is advisable, as the other target will only lose 10% hp that way)

Qon: removes Scorched

I may have missed some, but basically every spell that is dispellable in the current tier can be removed with cloak. In the very same way it behaved on Primordius: Unless I'm mistaken there have been two changes ever since the first PTR testing. Dispells, most noteworthy revival, used to dispell every debuff at once, which was detrimental since it removed not only the stat-altering ones, but also the full mutation. It then got changed (this one made it to the release) so dispells would remove all debuffs except for the full mutation. Sometime between friday and saturday in the first ID they hotfixed it so dispells wouldn't work at all on beneficial debuffs, and cloak followed the exact same limitations. What I'm still unsure about is whether dispells in general can still remove debuffs as long as the target isn't fully mutated, or only remove detrimental ones. I am almost certain that cloak will follow the same limitations though.

I convinced my guild to spend some time so I Can test this fully. On primordius, cloak litteraly does nothing. There was one time were it removed everything, but after looking through logs, it looks like our monk accidentally revival ed. So indeed you can't use cloak to remove negative debuffs or friendly buffs. But you can use it to immune his abilities.

So I am now 100% certain the final bit of it is, you can use cloak, but it will not affect mutation or any buffs/debuffs picked up by pools. So if you pick up a negative debuff, your screwed unless you get dispelled.

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I was testing Jin-Rokh for 2 times and i am pretty sure that if you will try to immune ionization with CoS it will wipe you raid (if you will stand in water). What you need to know that while CoS affects you, you will not going to get the ionization. It will simply miss. BUT if you will try to use it while boss is at the second half of his ionization cast you will immune it and the damage WILL be done. It could be due to the ping or something else but it does not matter. You just need to use CoS 2 second before cast starts and you won't be affected.

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You just need to use CoS 2 second before cast starts and you won't be affected.

Confirmed. You don't have to cloak-immune it, just to have cloak active at the end of his cast. On the subject of H-Jin Rokh, the fight seems tons easier for a rogue than for any other class (no Ionization thanks to CoS up each time, no Focused Lightning thanks to melee, extremely easy thunderstorm thanks to Feint+Elusiveness)

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I was testing Jin-Rokh for 2 times and i am pretty sure that if you will try to immune ionization with CoS it will wipe you raid (if you will stand in water). What you need to know that while CoS affects you, you will not going to get the ionization. It will simply miss. BUT if you will try to use it while boss is at the second half of his ionization cast you will immune it and the damage WILL be done. It could be due to the ping or something else but it does not matter. You just need to use CoS 2 second before cast starts and you won't be affected.

This is a ping issue for you. I've killed Heroic Jin'rokh twice now. If you cloak during his cast it will "cloak immune" the application of the debuff. You will not discharge your ionization into the pool and you will thusly not raid wipe. I would highly recommend this as it is a huge dps boost to be able to stay inside the pool to it's maximum. There is a reason the rankings (Rankings for Jin'rokh the Breaker in Throne of Thunder - World of Logs) are almost all rogues. (as of this post I'm still clinging to that front page!)

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And for horridon HC. Feint does work on double swipe. Without feint it deals about 330k 2 times and with feint (+ elusiveness) it does about 110k 2 times. Feint works on sand and poison zones as well.

As for ionization immune our guild members had several wipes becuase of this "issue" or something. And it was not just me but almost every class that has the same mechanic allowing them to evade aplication of ionization had expirienced the same result. So, even it indeed could be because of our ping, my point was that you shouldn't try to exactly immune it because it's very dangerous, just make sure CoS affects you when cast ends.

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There's two versions of the slimed debuff, one being a DoT, which you'll only receive after intercepting the green stuff in mid-air, and one that increases damage taken by the pools/DoT by 10% each time you intercept or soak one of the pools. Last time I used it (first normalmode ID), cloak didn't remove the DoT, only the increased damage taken, but it makes sense they changed it so it would remove both.

Oh, I'm sorry, I've only been on the ground thus far. If you pick up a puddle on the ground, it applies a 'slimed' dot that ticks for about 15 seconds and then applies the 'slimed' debuff that increases your damage taken. Cloak will remove the dot as well as the debuff. It probably won't remove the dot when you're flying because the same debuff also increases your damage.

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For heroic Horridon I recommend Mind numbing + dirty tricks if you're on flame caster interrupting, and if you have two rogues in your core have one use paralytic as well.

Also, depending on your groups strategy removing glyph of vendetta may be best if you need to burn adds, or if you don't get a lot of time on the boss until the final phase.

And if you're not using smoke bomb glyph(You should be for the majority of fights) it really helps for the final phase when direcall + warcry or whatever overlaps

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Leeching poison is optimal for heroic tortos to keep your shield up + feint

Leeching Poison+ Feint better than Elusiveness + Feint? Really? Anyone can confirm this?

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