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Rosin

5.2 Disc Priest Discussion

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I'm seeing massive reductions in the amount of absorption provided by PWS (~95k -> 55k) since 5.2 dropped. Tooltip still states 95k. I'm assuming some of it is related to the mastery rework but surely that much of a drop isn't intended as the end result of the patch was meant to be using PWS more. Or is the tooltip just wrong?

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Are you getting this from logs of fights with ticking damage, where the average absorb would be calculated from multiple hits against a single shield? I'm still seeing shields of approximately 115K.

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From our raid yesterday evening:

[20:10:13.217] Hamsda gains Power Word: Shield from Hamsda (Remaining: 218303)

[20:12:49.532] Hamsda gains Power Word: Shield from Hamsda (Remaining: 110099)

still hitting and now critting for the expected amount.

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Is there any consensus on the stats situation? I've been running with approximately 6k mastery for 3k crit. More or less basing this on what I could understand from Havoc's and Szeretlek's and others posts.

Could there be some sort of layman's explanation for us people who can't fathom the maths please?

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Ok, from my experience and theorycraft:

1) Burning MetaGem

2) Red Sockets - Int, Yellow - Int+Crit, Blue - Spirit+Int

3) Haste:

Non-Trolls: 966 + melee haste buff for additional SF attack

Troll: 3035 + melee haste buff for 2 additional SF attacks under Bers.

After bunch of logs analysis I strongly advice you to cast SF only with macros:

/cast Berserking

/cast Shadowfiend

/cast [pet] Shadowcrawl

Only that way your SF will land its attack after summon w/o delay.

4) Reforge to Spirit. Then Crit.

You can see some videos on my youtube channel:

SzerSzerSzer - YouTube

Warning: Russian language. So mute, if you cant understand =)

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Is there a specific point where the 3035 haste breakpoint becomes really viable? Or is it something to aim for as soon as possible with no thought to other stats or gear level?

If I'm not too mistaken the gain is 9k mana per 3minutes so 250mp5? Add +15% on one shadowfiend with HoH, so say between 250mp5 and 270mp5 for a 7-9min fight depending on good HoH usage. This might be wrong, but it seems like a low gain versus a high cost in a stat that's not that interesting otherwise.

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Is there a specific point where the 3035 haste breakpoint becomes really viable? Or is it something to aim for as soon as possible with no thought to other stats or gear level?

If I'm not too mistaken the gain is 9k mana per 3minutes so 250mp5? Add +15% on one shadowfiend with HoH, so say between 250mp5 and 270mp5 for a 7-9min fight depending on good HoH usage. This might be wrong, but it seems like a low gain versus a high cost in a stat that's not that interesting otherwise.

I think it comes with gear. When you can easy afford to spend 3k to haste (from 25k summary stats) - do it.

To clarify:

you have 0 haste and melee buff:

SF - 9 attacks

SF+Bers - 11 attacks

966 haste and melee buff:

SF - 10 attacks

SF+Bers - 11 attacks

3035 haste and melee buff:

SF - 10 attack

SF+Bers - 12 attacks

3035 haste and bers gives you 2 additional attacks or 500 mp5

So it really gives you that haste w/o too much burden (additional mana consumption). "Free" haste?

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Some thoughts, Ill add more later once i have a look at the heroic mechanics.

a. Last Stand of the Zandalari

1. Jin'rokh the Breaker - "Fluidity" increases healing by 60% and damage by 40%, atonement likely (I have not personally tested it) double dips in the buff, yielding 124% buff to atonement healing. Spirit shell will likely be used before "lightning storm" at which time the raid will probably be stacked under the boss for an easy barrier.

2. Horridon - "Cracked shell" increases damage taken on the boss by 50% per stack, up to 4 stacks making atonement very attractive again. Pain suppression might be best saved for when tanks have high stacks of "triple puncture" and also for the last phase when the boss "rampages".

3. Council of Elders -

b. Forgotten Depths

4. Tortos - Spirit shell before "quake stomps" which deal 30% of max health as damage and are followed by frequent "rock falls"

5. Megaera -

6. Ji-Kun -

c. Halls of Flesh-Shaping

7. Durumu the Forgotten -

8. Primordius -

9. Dark Animus -

d. Pinnacle of Storms

10. Iron Qon -

11. Twin Consorts -

12. Lei Shen -

13. Ra-den -

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1. Jin'rokh the Breaker - "Fluidity" increases healing by 60% and damage by 40%, atonement likely (I have not personally tested it) double dips in the buff, yielding 124% buff to atonement healing. Spirit shell will likely be used before "lightning storm" at which time the raid will probably be stacked under the boss for an easy barrier.
doesnt work =(

I parsed my logs from JinRokh and strings like these:

Penance damage 150000 (not crit)

Attonement heal 100000

are usual there.

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So is it only getting bonus damage and no extra healing? Why would it be doing less healing than damage? Perhaps you were healing a tank who was not standing in the water? Shouldn't your mastery make all atonement healing higher than its damage?

I just had a look at a random log for jinrohk with a disc priest and saw 98k penances followed by 166k atonements. Could you double check your log to confirm?

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Healing done - 13-03 22:42 - After Hours - World of Logs

I don't have too many casts because what happened here is I forgot to switch out my farming gear, which is just intellect, crit and haste, so I run oom really really fast. Also you can't see the fluidity buff, but you can guess from the penance damage.

Expression Editor - 13-03 22:42 - After Hours - World of Logs

There are some examples where the healing is much larger than the penance damage without archangel

e.g.

[23:03:55.912] Shaarra casts Penance

[23:03:56.345] Shaarra Penance Jin'rokh the Breaker 102255

[23:03:56.756] Shaarra casts Penance

[23:03:56.823] Shaarra Atonement Devilsface +85745

[23:03:57.300] Shaarra Penance Jin'rokh the Breaker 106482

[23:03:57.989] Shaarra Atonement Devilsface +89288

[23:04:04.973] Shaarra casts Penance

[23:04:05.767] Shaarra casts Penance

[23:04:05.944] Shaarra Penance Jin'rokh the Breaker 110206

[23:04:06.468] Shaarra Atonement Bilanx +181126

[23:04:06.670] Shaarra Penance Jin'rokh the Breaker 114252

[23:04:06.670] Shaarra casts Penance

[23:04:07.076] Shaarra Penance Jin'rokh the Breaker 106870

[23:04:07.275] Shaarra Atonement Devilsface +187389 (O: 387)

[23:04:07.679] Shaarra Atonement Beast +70336 (O: 19278)

[23:04:16.553] Shaarra casts Penance

[23:04:16.886] Shaarra Penance Jin'rokh the Breaker 110604

[23:04:17.342] Shaarra Atonement Devilsface +146333

The numbers seem strangely inconsistent. I don't see proper scaling with mastery and the buff anywhere. 110*1.12*1.6 = 197.12k, which is larger than what I get. Also it looks really that I get fairly different heal values from the same damage value. Something seems bugged here.

=================================================

PWS weaving with instants and casts is actually very attractive and very sustainable. I gave it a good try and maegera and durumu, where you actually get to heal short duration aoe phases and I did quite well.

Healing done - 14-03 22:55 - After Hours - World of Logs

Rank 7 on normal currently (was 5 last night) with 502 ilvl and without the t14 4set bonus.

I generally cast PWS then whatever instants I have available atm followed by a PoH or BH cast. I cast pretty much every spell under borrowed time. This works really well because PWS has minuscule overheal, while PoH and BH are at about 30%.

This is suprisingly sustainable, as soon as you hit 14k spirit, because between penance and instants and the long PoH cast you end up casting just 3 PWS or so per rapture period.

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Yeah there's definitely something wrong. While reading on the forums, I found someone dealing with an issue where their atonement were never higher than around 100k, even when the damage was over 100k. Another player posted that there was a stealth nerf limiting atonement healing to a maximum of 1.5 times the damage. They did not provide any evidence to support that claim. I think they broke something when they took resilience out of the equation for healing and added in mastery.

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Same issue on Horridon, 50% dmg buff stacking up to 4 times by the end of the fight.

Log

[21:43:04.818] Beffee casts Penance

[21:43:04.877] Beffee Penance Horridon *313386*

[21:43:05.573] Beffee Atonement Kérp +*95964* (O: 5465)

[21:43:05.722] Beffee Penance Horridon *313327*

[21:43:06.404] Beffee Atonement Nicma +*62527* (O: 38885)

[21:43:09.273] Beffee casts Penance

[21:43:10.111] Beffee casts Penance

[21:43:10.166] Beffee Penance Horridon 134697

[21:43:10.804] Beffee Atonement Nicma +11068 (O: 76124)

[21:43:10.852] Beffee casts Penance

[21:43:10.957] Beffee Penance Horridon 134852

[21:43:11.620] Beffee Atonement Xenorie +87292

[21:43:11.737] Beffee Penance Horridon 134726

[21:43:12.422] Beffee Atonement Otterman +87210

[21:43:14.033] Beffee Atonement Xenorie +*65201*

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So as long as the damage does not exceed 30% of your own hp, the healing will be the expected ammount? Thats before healing mods, so Jinrokh's atonement cap would effectively be 48% of the priests hp for targets with fluidity (+60% healing recieved)?

Thank you for linking that Beffe.

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This is no longer the case. I have seen 750k crit heals with atonement on windlord hc in the previous tier. In 5.2 I have 190k heals, 30% of my HP is 120k or so. Also looking at your own data:


[21:43:10.166] Beffee Penance Horridon 134697

[21:43:10.804] Beffee Atonement Nicma +11068 (O: 76124)

134697 damage translated into 186192k heal. This is over 50% bigger compared to a 120k cap, which is what you should have.

This is definitely a bug of some sort in the way the atonement heal is decided. remember also that crits from penance translate into half the healing + aegis for atonement.

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11068+76124 = 87192.

Not to say that there isn't a cap, of course, but refute it with good math, please. :)

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This is some data collected from horridon 10 man HC where +damage debuff on horridon is +200%.

Without Archangel:


[22:05:31.139] Danielt Penance Horridon 199333

[22:05:31.712] Danielt Atonement Lothaire +113557

[22:05:31.837] Danielt Penance Horridon *410338*

[22:05:32.467] Danielt Atonement Skitösn +*54477* (O: 74092)

[22:05:33.256] Skitösn gains Divine Aegis from Danielt (Remaining: 164407)

With Archangel:

[22:05:43.230] Danielt Penance Horridon 199042

[22:05:43.736] Danielt Atonement Lothaire +141739

[22:05:44.162] Danielt Penance Horridon 198966

[22:05:44.921] Danielt Atonement Skitösn +115835 (O: 40019)

[22:05:45.076] Danielt Penance Horridon *410650*

[22:05:45.733] Danielt Atonement Nèmo +*146213*

[22:05:46.546] Nèmo gains Divine Aegis from Danielt (Remaining: 186969)

And here is a sample of Wind Lord 10 hc (5.1) with +600% damage taken debuff (no archangel).

[19:54:17.765] Danielt Penance Wind Lord Mel'jarak 249270

[19:54:18.527] Danielt Atonement Lamee +168821

[19:54:18.694] Danielt Penance Wind Lord Mel'jarak 258811

[19:54:19.348] Danielt Atonement Sustainqt +98714 (O: 70107)

[19:54:19.639] Danielt Penance Wind Lord Mel'jarak *534622*

[19:54:20.144] Danielt Atonement Drefbloom +55107 (O: 113714)

[19:54:20.184] Danielt Atonement Drefbloom +*0* (O: 347771)

My health is 441k unbuffed, 30% of that is 132k. Did something change in 5.2? Notice how crits does not seem to be capped on atonement heals. In 5.1 +347k heal, in 5.2 +146k and +186k DA.

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This is some data collected from horridon 10 man HC where +damage debuff on horridon is +200%.

My health is 441k unbuffed, 30% of that is 132k. Did something change in 5.2? Notice how crits does not seem to be capped on atonement heals. In 5.1 +347k heal, in 5.2 +146k and +186k DA.

From your 5.1 log, your crit is 2.06x your noncrit Atonement cap (347771 versus 168821). That seems right.

Things make less sense to me looking at your 5.2 log snippets.

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This is how I am attempting to calculate atonement healing:

1) Start with the damage dealt. (factor our resilience in pvp)

2) Cap that damage at 30% of the priest's max hp, regardless of crit or noncrit (30.9% for crits with meta gem).

3) Multiply in mastery and any other buffs or debuffs to healing done or taken.

Can anyone confirm or correct this? I need to be sure for some testing and possibly a bug report.

I have 383k hp unbuffed. I think with raid buffs I have 407k. So I should not see my atonement healing hit the cap unless I deal more than 122k damage, right?

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Check Horridon logs and you should see your atonement with 1 stack of Cracked Shell (50% damage per stack) equal to your atonement with 2-4 stacks. Compare this with Jin'rokh (40% damage buff + 60% healing buff) where you should be seeing full atonement healing in excess of 200k (much more than any sort of proposed 30% hp cap). This indicates a simple cap at +50% damage taken by the mob with no known cap on healing modifiers after that.

Also, I did a test run with t15 4pc and Golden Apparition is modified by Archangel and can crit (and does create DA when it crits). I have not been able to figure out how the spell power modification works. Without archangel up, the lowest heal I saw was ~93k and the highest around 142k. I *think* the maximum possible heal increases 1:1 with spell power, but the minimum heal stays the same... meaning the average heal increases 1:2 with your spellpower. This is just taken from logs, if someone has the time to gather better information from target dummy healing, you should be able to refute my hypothesis easily if it's incorrect.

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So how is the nerf to atonement changing our playstyle in 5.3? On first sight it looks like a big nerf, but if we play around with using heal-penance more (which doesn't get nerfed and also benefits from evangelism) and realize that smite really only heals during low damage phases, I don't think it's too bad? I don't have the time to run any calculations on it though, but it's something to take note of since many players will still be progressing through HC ToT when the patch hits.

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So how is the nerf to atonement changing our playstyle in 5.3? On first sight it looks like a big nerf, but if we play around with using heal-penance more (which doesn't get nerfed and also benefits from evangelism) and realize that smite really only heals during low damage phases, I don't think it's too bad? I don't have the time to run any calculations on it though, but it's something to take note of since many players will still be progressing through HC ToT when the patch hits.

Even with the nerfs in 5.2, disc remained above the other specs in almost all fights. With my playstyle in 10man raiding, atonement is roughly 20-30% of my healing done. This is a 4%-6% nerf to overall healing, still leaving disc comfortably above the other specs.

I have not done the math on heal vs damage penance post nerf, I assume it will now be more hps to use it as a heal, but overall probably more beneficial (at least in 10man) to still use it as a damaging ability.

There are some good discussions dedicated to this on MMO-Champion and HowtoPriest as well, if you're interested.

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