Pathal

[5.4 Combat] I'm Not Dead Yet

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But that's the reason...?

If you cast Rupture at BG30, it will keep ticking for the same damage even after BG30 ends. So if you refresh Rupture at no insight level, it will remove all but 1 tick of BG30, and 1 tick will lose that 30% bonus damage. Changing insight doesn't change the damage of pre-existing DoTs anymore.

The only time it's ever a good idea to refresh Rupture early is if you have more damage procs outside of BG30 that generate a >30% burst, for the most part. In most cases, it's a bad idea to do so.

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Oh crap, I read the phrase "rupture damage doesn't scale with insight level" to mean that insight level has zero effect on rupture at all ever (so that clipping between insight levels was irrelevant).  My bad.  Thanks.

Edited by dommy

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Would having 180-220ms(oceanic server) completely negate the slight DPS advantage ofcombat over assassination?  As mutilate the latency the delay is almost a non-factor but I can definitely feel the difference on lust/adrenaline rush as combat.

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Do combat rogues really switch fast off-hand weapon for slow one, when killing spree is up?

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Do combat rogues really switch fast off-hand weapon for slow one, when killing spree is up?

No combat rogues that I know are weapon swapping. We use a slow weapon in our offhands full time.  

I cant speak to lower gear levels because I didnt switch to combat until I got to ~570ish, but weapon swapping triggers a global cool down, and there aren't really a lot of free global cool downs, let alone a free one right before a killing spree.

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No combat rogues that I know are weapon swapping. We use a slow weapon in our offhands full time.  

I cant speak to lower gear levels because I didnt switch to combat until I got to ~570ish, but weapon swapping triggers a global cool down, and there aren't really a lot of free global cool downs, let alone a free one right before a killing spree.

 

If you had a 1.80 dagger with ilvl 553 and 2.60 wep from flex, which one you would choose ?

 

I'd always think the one with higher dps would be better - so but not sure.

 

Also, do you guys use anything to track Bandit's Guile ? Weak Auras or any other addon ?

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If you had a 1.80 dagger with ilvl 553 and 2.60 wep from flex, which one you would choose ?

 

I'd always think the one with higher dps would be better - so but not sure.

 

Also, do you guys use anything to track Bandit's Guile ? Weak Auras or any other addon ?

I would use Shadowcraft to determine which weapon to use.  

I use the Bandits Guile Helper addon

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Should we wait for higher insight levels to use AR+SB, considering how much assurance drops the CD's, or just blast them away when we see a chance to stand still? Does Shadowcraft take this into account?

 

Edit: removed the part about KS since I found the answer to that..

Edited by paulsen

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Hey all, 
So I just started playing WoW again after being gone for almost 2 years, played Assassination in WotLK and Combat through DS heroic.
I read through all 8 pages here and have come up with a few questions.
Firstly, on the Combat and Rotation page under the stat weights it says "7.5% Hit > 7.5% Expertise > 2x Haste > Agility > Haste > Mastery > Crit" - I don't know if I'm completely missing something but I can't figure out what "2x haste" is referring to. 

Secondly, I notice that these posts are from 6 months ago, but on the Combat and Rotation page it states "Always use a slow(2.6s speed) mainhand and that 1.8 and 2.6 weapons were close for offhands" while a few posts up frigginwizard said: 

 

No combat rogues that I know are weapon swapping. We use a slow weapon in our offhands full time.  

 

So, does the Combat and Rotation page need to be changed to include that 1.8 daggers are no longer viable as OH weapons due to changes in recent tier? or did frigginwizard just make a mistake.

 

Thanks.

Edited by eli371

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From above post, better to use Shadowcraft to find which offhand is better. I think going with higher ilvl item is the way to go.

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Firstly, on the Combat and Rotation page under the stat weights it says "7.5% Hit > 7.5% Expertise > 2x Haste > Agility > Haste > Mastery > Crit" - I don't know if I'm completely missing something but I can't figure out what "2x haste" is referring to. 

 

 

It has to do with item budget. One point of agi is worth more than one point of haste, but in wows item budget haste gets 2 times the stat of agi. For example, agi gems add 160 agi, whereas haste gems add 320 haste. So if you could pick either the haste gem is better. That being said, decisions are rarely that straight forward, and you should be using shadowcraft to make your gear decisions. 

 

 

Secondly, I notice that these posts are from 6 months ago, but on the Combat and Rotation page it states "Always use a slow(2.6s speed) mainhand and that 1.8 and 2.6 weapons were close for offhands" while a few posts up frigginwizard said: 

 

So, does the Combat and Rotation page need to be changed to include that 1.8 daggers are no longer viable as OH weapons due to changes in recent tier? or did frigginwizard just make a mistake.

I did not make a mistake. Slow weapons are marginally better than fast ones. This is no way implies that a dagger in the OH is not viable, simply that it is not ideal.

 

That being said, the context matters a lot here. I wasn't just making a general statement about fast vs slow, I was responding to someone asking about weapon swapping in combat(and even quoted them to establish context). 

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The guide is correct. The guy saying that weapon swapping is not required is also right. See guide:

OFFHAND ONLY: 1.8s daggers, and 2.6s axe/fist/sword/mace are exceptionally close in performance. However, 2.6s weapons appear to have a fraction of a % of an advantage. Try to keep a 1.8s dagger around for when you can't use Killing Spree optimally. Because of their racial passive, orc rogues should always use a 2.6s offhand if it's a fist weapon or axe and they also use a fist weapon or axe as their mainhand.

 

x2 haste means that you're comparing Haste x2 to Agility x1 when making gemming choices. Gems contain twice the secondary stat compared to the amount of main stat. Say, when Haste x2 > Agi, that means you should use "80 Agi + 160 Haste" gem for red socket instead of "160 Agi" gem (this is under assumption that you should always go for socket bonuses, which in case of Combat and this tier is virtually always true).

Edited by nordveien

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Thanks all for the replies and thanks for clearing that up frigginwizard. I'm starting to mess with shadowcraft now. Once again I greatly appreciate all the responses.

 

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Regarding the BiS table, considering this tier is going to be over a year old by the time WoD comes out, giving many of us an opportunity to actually achieve full BiS, wouldn't it be better to use Garrosh belt/spoils boots instead of the pieces currently listed.

 

Reforing export: Head: MasteryRating -> HitRating

Back: CritRating -> HitRating
Chest: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Wrists: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Hands: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Waist: CritRating -> MasteryRating
Legs: CritRating -> HitRating
Feet: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Ring1: ExpertiseRating -> HasteRating
Ring2: MasteryRating -> HitRating
MainHand: CritRating -> MasteryRating
OffHand: CritRating -> HitRating
 
With Seismic bore this comes to 405244 DPS as a troll with all raid buffs except receiving tricks on CD/tricksing on CD. Also, there is a ~100 dps difference for Spoils weapons.
 
EDIT: Since apparently I don't know how to link a specific gear set in shadowcraft.
 
2nd Edit: See if this link works Combat BiS
Edited by Zekyu

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Gear snapshots are stored to your local machine. All that link does is show is the gear you are currently wearing.

Edited by frigginwizard

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Hi I am currently sitting on 17.1k haste and find myself capped on energy more times than I can count specially during pretty much every cd I use KS/AR ( not to mention at the start with BL). So basically my question here is, has anyone tried going for a lower haste build ( switching some haste gems to agility ones to lower the energy cap situation)? Would that be a dps increase since wasted energy would me wasted dps? Or does the haste, although capped, still overcome with the melee swings a more agility base build? If so is there a "haste cap" to overcome the cap issues I assume everyone with high gear encounters?

 

Pls share your thoughts or experience.

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Even if energy capping haste benefit is still greater than what crit or mastery offer.(oh wow misread that question)

Edited by Nevernite

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Near or at bis gemming for haste or agi will sim very close. If you're gear is a bit lower just stick with haste.

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I was curious if anyone has given any thought to using the subterfuge talent instead of shadow focus as combat.

 

With the amount of haste we have around 585ilvl (62%+), we can easily sneak in two Ambushes using this talent even at their full 60 energy cost.  You can either use both Ambushes back to back and then give yourself a 4CP SnD off the pull, or you can go Ambush > SnD > Ambush for a slightly faster SnD.  This also reduces the time that we're energy capped for those of us going immediately into KS after SnD to benefit from double trinket procs.

 

The downside of this would be that in order to get the two Ambushes once we're in combat (offensive vanishing), we'd have to pool energy to essentially the cap, and everyone knows this is never a good thing. 

 

If, however, the primary reason we've been using shadow focus this whole time was for its essentially free damage and 2CP during combat (as opposed to its utility at the pull), then subterfuge probably does come out much more weakly.

 

Thoughts?

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Ambush doesn't add bandits guile stacks, I haven't been using it at all anymore so I can get to the first level of insight faster and complete a KS while my initial Horroms proc is still up.  

As for using is during combat, I have no idea if it would be worth it.

Edited by frigginwizard

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I realize I'm late to this party, but can someone explain why Shadowcraft is simming Korven's Crimson Crescent normal 4/4 higher than HS razor? I know having a slow OH is ideal, but so much so that it outpaces +299 haste and +60 agi w/ same base damage? I'm getting a 2k dps increase from the crescent. That sound right? If so, can someone explain the crafting behind that? 

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I realize I'm late to this party, but can someone explain why Shadowcraft is simming Korven's Crimson Crescent normal 4/4 higher than HS razor? I know having a slow OH is ideal, but so much so that it outpaces +299 haste and +60 agi w/ same base damage? I'm getting a 2k dps increase from the crescent. That sound right? If so, can someone explain the crafting behind that? 

 

The discussion of slow VS fast off-hand is merely a trade-off between higher killing spree damage (slow off-hand) VS higher poison damage (fast off-hand). Normally, in a fight where killing spree can be used properly, a slow off-hand would already be slightly ahead because the benefit on killing spree is larger than the benefit on poisons (note: on a fight where killing spree can't be used well, a slow off-hand would probably be better). However, the current 4-set bonus, which increases killing spree damage, further pushes the balance towards slow off-hands. This is likely the reason your Crimson Crescent sims so high.

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