Druss

5.4 Subtlety Reborn

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So, I ran a test on some raid dummies with and without rupture. With rupture i did 12.6mil damage in 2 min, without rupture and only hemo (with the glyph) i did 14.8mil damage in 2 min.

I'm still undecided, I was hoping someone with better gear and more knowledge of the class would answer me, perhaps it's worth not using Rupture and instead spamming Evis if you have the glyph and just keep Hemo up for the SV.

It seems to be a gain...i really won't be able to tell unless i do some more raiding on things like Jug, i seem to get best numbers on Jug. :D

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Yes, rupture is a dps gain, and just from some paper math it seems to be a lot better than eviscerate. During my General Nazgrim attempts my average non-crit rupture was 22.7k dmg, and with 2 piece tier that is 14 ticks, so 318k dmg per rupture (ignoring crits). The average eviscerate non-crit was 177k dmg. The difference is about the same if you look at average crit dmg. Going through the logs of all attempts my highest dmg rupture tick was 81.9k dmg, so 1,146k dmg. My highest eviscerate was 950k. Also take into account that eviscerates are benefiting from find weakness, so when find weakness is not active rupture is going to have an even bigger lead over eviscerate.

Now what I am not sure of is if eviscerate should have a higher priority over rupture while find weakness is active or not. I'm starting to think it is better to prioritize refreshing rupture over everything else, except for probably slice and dice.

Also, shadowcraft is suggesting to use shadow blades during shadow dance, which to me, gives you maybe 1 or 2 more eviscerates while find weakness is up, but completely negates the bonus that it makes your autoattacks ignore armor because of find weakness. It just doesn't seem worth it to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

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the problem is that by the time your first FW fades, and then your shadowdance FW fades and then your vanish FW fades, you've delayed shadowblades by like a minute which is a very long delay for a strong cd with a 2.x minute cooldown (assuming assurance trinket). That long a delay will almost always cost you one use of that cooldown during the fight. I would say you definitely use shadowblades during your first dance. If you can weave it after the first one without having to delay any of your cooldowns significantly, that may be a gain, but most of the top parses I have looked at so far, they line SB up with dance even later in the fight but that may just be habit from t15 4pc.

Now that i'm playing sub on most of the single target fights, i plan to mess around with the SimC action list and see how dps compares between current setup and making sure they don't overlap. I'll post anything interesting here if someone hasn't already.

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#showtooltip

/startattack [nostealth]

/cast [stance:0] Backstab

/cast [stance:1/2/3] Ambush

/cast Premeditation

I'd be happy for anyone to critique me. This is literally my first day playing subtlety for raiding since I can't remember and I am still learning a lot myself. Anyways, good luck to all those learning this spec. It is much stronger than combat or assassination at the moment.

Addons:

ComboPointsRedux

EnergyWatch

ForteXorcist

NugComboBar

Recount

TidyPlates

Hey there, I only have a few things to say, first of all your explanation of the basic subtlety rotation was very good. In my experience it is extremely difficult to pin down and explain every single priority/optimization of the spec and I think you've done a good job.

I have one small issue with your spam-macro, and I'm not even sure if I'm right, but I believe that if you cast premeditation with 4-5 CP, the two points that you should be getting don't add to your anticipation stacks. This means that you should be putting the premeditation above the ambush/backstab, if that works.

Anyone not aware of weakauras/powerauras should immediately get the addon. It allows you to monitor all the things a rogue could need (FW buff, Rupture duration, SnD, Trinket procs, Cooldowns, CPs, Energy, anything at all with a spellID) And it allows you to customize how it shows up on your UI. It has a bit of a learning curve but it might only take a half hour or so to completely change over to it.

Another general point that a lot of people are sticking with is that Shadow Dance should never be used with FW buff up, however with the new rogue tier this could actually cause significant delays to your CD use. I haven't been able to test this since I don't have the privilege of any tier gear at the moment, but it was estimated back in the PTR that FW uptimes could be close to 100%. In the case of very high FW uptimes I think that Vanish and Preparation should be saved for those rare downtimes.

To everyone looking to get into this spec, it is MUCH harder to pull off properly than assassination or combat, but it is definitely more rewarding. It also has the added bonus of doing comparable damage to the other specs with the most recent hotfix!

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I don't think Sub will have any >5% theoretical lead over the other specs.

In the latest SimC, Sub BiS single target is a solid 11% ahead of Assassination BiS (and 3.5% ahead of combat). I'm sure the gearing and reforging will get tweaked but I doubt that gap will close by much. I see a similar gap when I sim my own gear at a more modest 550ish item level.

That doesn't translate 1 to 1 for real world given sub's issues, but it's still too big a number to ignore on any encounters that are primarily single target fights.

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Just to make sure, can you now correctly compare projected damage between specs in Shadowcraft?

If I'm not mistaken, during ToT it wasn't working that way, for instance it constantly showed Combat with 4pc much higher than Assn with similar gear, and in reality it simply wasn't the case. Someone mentioned on these forums at that time that you cannot compare dps between specs using ShC, only dps within a single spec (for example when comparing two pieces of gear).

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I would advise against it.

Hopefully soon, you should be able to look at Combat and Sub that way and get an idea of which has better performance for what gear you have available, but I wouldn't do that now. And definitely not with Assassination.

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Hello.

Yesterday i tried out Sub for the very first time in raidenviroment. And, i guess i didn't do that well..

Though im gone stick with it for thoose single targets fights and try to learn it better.

If somone would be so kind and give me some suggestion by looking on my logs i would be very glad since im totally new on this.

Also i like the previous posts in this thread, very informative and well written!

Dashboard - 03-10 21:02 - The Obsidian Order - World of Logs

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For starters you need to start using glyph of vanish. Looking at your Sha of Pride kill you didn't take advantage of vanish once. This is a pretty big dps cooldown for subtlety. Rupture, and Hemo uptime could be slightly better. Make sure you always refresh rupture with 5 cps and at less than 2 seconds remaining and hemo at 3. Make sure you are getting the most out of find weakness as well. Don't pop another cooldown until find weakness has fallen off so you are getting the most amount of uptime on it. I don't think your logs were that bad though.

Just keep working at it. I've had to get a few additional addons just to try and keep track of everything.

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I raided subt for heroics this week (didnt play it on malkorok because our strat revolves around me soaking transitions with our tanks.) The spec itself seems solid enough where I was competitive, but not phenomenal (most likely due to lack of familiarity).

Link to logs:

Dashboard - 01-10 20:04 - Anomaly - World of Logs

Obviously all the fights aren't on that one log and you'll have to go back to the weekly overview, but if curious you can take a look... if you see anything really f'ing bad, in terms of play i'd like you to tell me so i can attempt to remedy it, as i still have no combat weapon and will prob be playing sub next reset as well.

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My opener is as follows: Ambush > SnD > Hemo > Ambush. At that point Subterfuge has worn off and you will want to start your normal rotation.

Don't forget to Premed before the pull and get SnD up before opening so are getting the energy return immediately. That way you don't waste any of the time you are in Master of Subtlety for the extra 10% damage by using a gcd and energy on a non-damaging finisher. It can make the opener a little more involved when you are trying to prepot, I'll sit stealthed targeting the boss, when the 10s pull timer comes up I'll Premed and immediately unstealth, and then at ~3s to pull I'll SnD, prepot, stealth and move into position for opener.

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Hi guys.

I worked on a macro for opening, works well for me, just wanted to know your opinion about this


#show

/cast Shadowstep

/cast Premeditation

/castsequence Garrote, Slice and Dice, Hemorrhage, Ambush

It focuses on getting FW and SV up, also I don't like casting SnD with just 2cp because I find myself still refreshing it while MoS is up.

Overall I'm pretty satisfied with my DPS, therefore I hope the Macro is not completely wrong. Just wanted to share.

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With Glyph of Hemo, SV isn't a problem and it seems like the GCD spent on Garrote would be better used in prolonging the FW an extra second or w/e to me, but that's completely unbacked by any math whatsoever so take that with a rather large spoonful of salt.

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Before I get started, I wanted to point out that, after some digging, I've come to the conclusion that simcraft isn't handling the Master of Subtlety buff correctly, and is undervaluing our DPS because of it. No idea how to fix it, but maybe one of you can.

Normally I'd continue to just lurk on the forums, but since the spec is (relatively) young as far as this expansion goes, I thought I'd toss my HaT (get it?) into the ring and try to put all the correct information in one place, as well as some of my own insight.

Gear

Helm: [iTEM]Kor'kron Elite Skullmask[/iTEM]

Neck: [iTEM]Gleaming Eye of the Devilsaur[/iTEM]

Shoulders: [iTEM]Spaulders of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Chest: [iTEM]Tunic of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Bracers: [iTEM]Bomber's Blackened Wristwatch[/iTEM]

Gloves: [iTEM]Gloves of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Belt: [iTEM]Cord of Black Dreams[/iTEM]

Legs: [iTEM]Legguards of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Feet: [iTEM]Pandaren Roofsprinters[/iTEM]

Ring 1: [iTEM]Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy[/iTEM]

Ring 2: [iTEM]Ring of Restless Energy[/iTEM]

Trinket 1: [iTEM]Assurance of Consequence[/iTEM]

Trinket 2: [iTEM]Haromm's Talisman[/iTEM]

Weapon MH: [iTEM]Hvitserk's Formidable Shanker[/iTEM]

Weapon OH: [iTEM]Hvitserk's Formidable Shanker[/iTEM]

Stat Weights

Agility: 4.010

Yellow Hit: 3.301

Expertise: 2.934

Haste: 1.799

Crit: 1.696

Mastery: 1.680

White Hit: 1.010

Mainhand Dps: 4.666

Offhand Dps: 0.806

T16 2pc: 3021.017

T16 4pc: 1471.888

Sims out at 436.7k DPS with Pandaren Racial and two static agility professions. Gear/Stat Weights are tentative.

Talents:

T1: Subterfuge

T2: Combat Readiness (optional)

T3: Elusiveness (optional but very strongly recommended)

T4: Shadowstep (optional but very very strongly recommended)

T5: Prey on the Weak (optional)

T6: Anticipation

The only really mandatory ones are Subterfuge in T1 and Anticipation in T6. Subterfuge because it allows you additional ambushes after breaking stealth to extend the Find Weakness debuff and also extends your Master of Subtlety buff for the duration, and Anticipation because it allows you to capture combo points from Honor Among Thieves that would normally go to waste, and also pool combo points for when Find Weakness is up for additional Eviscerates.

For the other tiers, you can pick what you want, but Elusiveness in T3 is very strong for general fight survival (especially when combined with Glyph of Feint), and Shadowstep in T4 is a staple for most rogues, but T2-T5 come down to playstyle if you strongly prefer one to another.

Glyphs:

Glyph of Vanish

Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins

Glyph of Feint/Redirect/Smoke Bomb

Glyph of Vanish and Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins are the only ones that are actually important to your damage. Glyph of Vanish extends your Subterfuge by an additional 3 seconds (though it doesnt extend your Master of Subtlety buff further), and Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins allows you leniency with not being required to maintain 100% rupture uptime during the fight for the Sanguinary Vein debuff, which gives you the freedom to use other finishers as you see fit.

The third Glyph is a preference call. I use Glyph of Feint because Feint is great, and therefore extending it by 2 seconds is even better. You can swap in Glyph of Smoke Bomb if your raid is hurting for mitigation cooldowns or Glyph of Redirect if you need to target swap often, though subtlety is not the best at target swapping fights because Find Weakness is a target-specific debuff.

In the end, your setup should look something like this:

Mists of Pandaria - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Rotation:

As for rotation, lot of people are getting the precombat part wrong, so let me start there:

Pre-Combat:

~15 seconds before pull (get as close to 18 as you can without going over, minimum of 7 seconds): Premeditation (from stealth) -> Unstealth -> Wait 1-2 seconds before pull -> Prepot + cast Slice and Dice -> Restealth -> Open

It's a little involved, but you'll want to cast Premeditation from stealth before pull to get Slice and Dice up, and you'll also need to be out of stealth to prepot, so you have to duck in/out/in of stealth.

Opener:

There are two options for openers, and it's somewhat unclear as of now which is better: a Garrote opener, or an Ambush opener.

Garrote Opener: Garrote -> Ambush -> Ambush

Ambush Opener: Ambush -> Hemorrhage -> Ambush

The Garrote opener costs 15 more energy, which makes it more difficult to pull off two Ambushes within the 3 second Subterfuge window (with 12,000+ haste I can't reliably pull it off on the target dummy without super micro-ing my Energetic Recovery procs). However, it has the benefit of immediately applying the Sanguinary Vein and Find Weakness debuffs, meaning both of your Ambushes benefit from both buffs, instead of your first benefiting from neither. In addition, the Hemorrhage you use to put up Sanguinary Vein would also not benefit from the buff, meaning you would either have a mediocre Hemorrhage dot or would have to spend more energy applying the correct one (which also effectively wastes the first one).

So basically, use the Garrote opener if you can (i.e. if you're going to use bloodlust on pull, or are very well geared with a lot of haste).

In Combat:

Things get a little dicey here, so I'll go into a general idea of what your mindset should be instead of a step-by-step list of what to do.

Your main combo point builder should be Backstab whenever possible (i.e. you can get behind your target), with Hemorrhage as your backup if you cant. You should use Hemorrhage to keep its bleed effect up, ideally during Find Weakness, because the bleed is based on the initial damage of the Hemorrhage it came from, which itself benefits from the armor penetration. During Shadow Blades, Backstab is replaced with Ambush.

For finishers, keep Slice and Dice up at all times, and keep Rupture up as much as possible, with Eviscerate as your finisher spam (obviously). Try to avoid reapplying Slice and Dice/Rupture during Find Weakness if timing allows, but do it anyway if they are falling off, with a lesser priority on Rupture. To make that a little more clear - it's worth it to push back Shadow Dance/Vanish by a few seconds to first reapply Slice and Dice/Rupture before applying the Find Weakness debuff; however, if the debuff is already out and Slice and Dice/Rupture is about to fall off, you should reapply it anyway.

Rupture vs Eviscerate during Find Weakness is a debate that requires someone with more free time (though admittedly writing this up took a while). Without Find Weakness, Rupture is the clear winner - it does 80-85% as much damage as Eviscerate (which would often be cut by an additional ~25% anyway because of armor mitigation) for 40% less energy. Even during Find Weakness, Rupture is more energy efficient...but then things get more complicated when the discussion shifts from removing Rupture entirely to simply delaying it during Find Weakness. There are times when you should delay rupture - an extreme example is if you have Rupture falling off and 5 CPs and 5 Anticipation charges with 1 second left on Find Weakness, then you can easily justify bumping the Rupture back a few seconds to snag the tail end of the debuff for the Eviscerate. However, what if that turns into 5 CPs +2 charges and 3 seconds left on Find Weakness? 4 CPs and 7 seconds left on Find Weakness? The answer is dynamic based on your combo points + charges, energy, time left on Find Weakness, and how many ticks of Rupture you'd lose. As a general rule of thumb, if you would lose 3 or more ticks of Rupture to use Eviscerate during Find Weakness, then it's probably not worth it.

Cooldowns can be another murky area. Shadow Dance is on a relatively low cooldown (especially with an Assurance of Consequence) and should be used virtually on cooldown to maintain high uptime of the Find Weakness debuff. It also replaces Backstab with a reduced-cost Ambush (-20 energy, to 40 energy cost). Because you have such high uptime of the Find Weakness buff, Shadow Blades loses some of its usefulness in overlap (with 100% armor penetration already on the target, the benefit of having shadow damage auto attacks is practically wiped out). However, the working assumption that is initially supported by Shadowcraft is that waiting to find an opening to use Shadow Blades is not worth the delayed usage of the CD, and that you should actually use it during Shadow Dance to increase your CP generation for more Eviscerate spam. During Shadow Dance, it is better to use an additional Ambush over applying/refreshing Hemorrhage.

For both Shadow Dance and Vanish, you should make sure to save enough energy to use one final Ambush at the end of the grace period (40 energy for Shadow Dance, 60 for Vanish). The purpose of this is to maximize your Find Weakness uptime (two Ambushes back to back only causes 11 combined seconds of Find Weakness, but two Ambushes 5 second apart causes 15 seconds). Assuming you took Glyph of Vanish (which you should), your Subterfuge buff will actually last 6 seconds instead of 3 (it will reapply itself after the first one runs out). Ambushing while the Find Weakness buff will give the Ambush the extra damage, so dont wait for the buff to fall off before reappying it with another Ambush.

As mentioned earlier, try to time your CDs out so that your Rupture and Slice and Dice are refreshed going into them, but dont avoid refreshing them should you need to. Additionally, you should be pooling energy/CPs for Shadow Dance and Vanish (and T16 4pc bonus procs when you get it) to get as many Ambushes/Eviscerates during the Find Weakness buff as possible, especially after a Vanish because your Master of Subtlety buff will be back up. You can also use Preparation to reset the cooldown of your Vanish, but don't be in a huge hurry to do so - most fights only last long enough to use a single Preparation (5min CD), so saving it for later isnt a waste of the CD.

Premeditation is best used on its own and not macroed into something else if you can manage it, but it is one more thing to manage in what is already the most complicated Rogue spec by a decent margin. The reason for this is Premeditation will not add to your Anticipation charges if used at 4+ combo points, so having it macroed in means you run the risk of losing those combo points (although if it's between macroing it in and not using it at all, macroing it in is obviously the better choice).

I'll add more as more info becomes available/uncovered

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I've worked out that by macroing ambush into my cooldowns that I can spam the cooldown macro initially, and once I have <=3 cps then I can start spamming my regular dmg macro with premed baked into it. That way there is no premed/cp wasting. Just in case you are lazy like me and don't want to have to worry about the added hassle of having premed on a separate bind.

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I've worked out that by macroing ambush into my cooldowns that I can spam the cooldown macro initially, and once I have <=3 cps then I can start spamming my regular dmg macro with premed baked into it. That way there is no premed/cp wasting. Just in case you are lazy like me and don't want to have to worry about the added hassle of having premed on a separate bind.

Is thoose the same macros you posted some days ago? or have you written new ones?

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Is thoose the same macros you posted some days ago? or have you written new ones?

Same macros, I just changed the intent on how to use them. Originally it was just for a quick-casted initial ambush if the GCD was free. But now I pretty much chain cast the cooldown macros until my CPs are low enough to where I can switch to my regular backstab/ambush macro without wasting the CPs from premed. Just a simple thing to free yourself from having to bind premed.

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Before I get started, I wanted to point out that, after some digging, I've come to the conclusion that simcraft isn't handling the Master of Subtlety buff correctly, and is undervaluing our DPS because of it. No idea how to fix it, but maybe one of you can.

Normally I'd continue to just lurk on the forums, but since the spec is (relatively) young as far as this expansion goes, I thought I'd toss my HaT (get it?) into the ring and try to put all the correct information in one place, as well as some of my own insight.

Gear

Helm: [iTEM]Kor'kron Elite Skullmask[/iTEM]

Neck: [iTEM]Gleaming Eye of the Devilsaur[/iTEM]

Shoulders: [iTEM]Spaulders of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Chest: [iTEM]Tunic of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Bracers: [iTEM]Bomber's Blackened Wristwatch[/iTEM]

Gloves: [iTEM]Gloves of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Belt: [iTEM]Cord of Black Dreams[/iTEM]

Legs: [iTEM]Legguards of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM]

Feet: [iTEM]Pandaren Roofsprinters[/iTEM]

Ring 1: [iTEM]Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy[/iTEM]

Ring 2: [iTEM]Ring of Restless Energy[/iTEM]

Trinket 1: [iTEM]Assurance of Consequence[/iTEM]

Trinket 2: [iTEM]Haromm's Talisman[/iTEM]

Weapon MH: [iTEM]Hvitserk's Formidable Shanker[/iTEM]

Weapon OH: [iTEM]Hvitserk's Formidable Shanker[/iTEM]

Stat Weights

Agility: 4.010

Yellow Hit: 3.301

Expertise: 2.934

Haste: 1.799

Crit: 1.696

Mastery: 1.680

White Hit: 1.010

Mainhand Dps: 4.666

Offhand Dps: 0.806

T16 2pc: 3021.017

T16 4pc: 1471.888

Thanks for doing that, I put together the same list, the only difference i have is that instead of [iTEM]Kor'kron Elite Skullmask[/iTEM] if you take [iTEM]Helmet of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM] and then [iTEM]Shoulderguards of the Righteous Stand[/iTEM] instead of [iTEM]Spaulders of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM] provide better stats. You can reforge into hit and exp that you need.

You get a good amount more haste and mastery, a little less crit and maybe 50 less Agi. But I don't really run Sims so if you can check that I would appreciate it. I know it's all very subjective and it's such a minute little difference, but I like to have my BIS list for each patch :)

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Thanks for doing that, I put together the same list, the only difference i have is that instead of [iTEM]Kor'kron Elite Skullmask[/iTEM] if you take [iTEM]Helmet of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM] and then [iTEM]Shoulderguards of the Righteous Stand[/iTEM] instead of [iTEM]Spaulders of the Barbed Assassin[/iTEM] provide better stats. You can reforge into hit and exp that you need.

You get a good amount more haste and mastery, a little less crit and maybe 50 less Agi. But I don't really run Sims so if you can check that I would appreciate it. I know it's all very subjective and it's such a minute little difference, but I like to have my BIS list for each patch :)

There are a couple permutations that come very close, really it's based on what you can actually get your hands on (and warforged if you're lucky). The setup you posted was one I tried and it sims ~100 DPS less than the one I listed.

Like I said, very close, but BIS is BIS even if the margin is really insignificant.

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Is it worth it to delay using Shadowdance or Vanish until Premed is up, all other factors being equal (i.e., no bloodlust, no high damage burn phase on boss, etc)?

It seems with the reduced cooldown on our burst damage delaying use would end up being an overall damage loss over the course of a fight.

I think it makes sense to delay burst damage cooldowns for after FW has fallen off, but delaying just for an additional 2 CPs ... what do you guys think?

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There are a couple permutations that come very close, really it's based on what you can actually get your hands on (and warforged if you're lucky). The setup you posted was one I tried and it sims ~100 DPS less than the one I listed.

Like I said, very close, but BIS is BIS even if the margin is really insignificant.

Yes I agree. Plus I'm not likely to get all heroic warforged let alone heroic BIS. However, this early in the patch, I know I can at least shoot for all warforged and some heroic BIS. And it feels good knowing that i'm squeezin the most possible out of my gear. Thanks for checking that for me :)

I don't delay, I pop ShD whenever it's up (unless FW is still up on the target).

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Is it worth it to delay using Shadowdance or Vanish until Premed is up, all other factors being equal (i.e., no bloodlust, no high damage burn phase on boss, etc)?

It seems with the reduced cooldown on our burst damage delaying use would end up being an overall damage loss over the course of a fight.

I think it makes sense to delay burst damage cooldowns for after FW has fallen off, but delaying just for an additional 2 CPs ... what do you guys think?

My gut says no, Premeditation isn't the biggest deal and you can use it during Shadow Dance anyway so no reason to delay it. Vanish isnt so much about extra burst as it is keeping high uptime on Find Weakness, so a couple extra CPs are nice but wont make or break you.

Also, if you use Vanish/Shadow Dance-> Ambush with a sliver of time left on Find Weakness (i.e. 1 second or less), then that initial Ambush will benefit from the Find Weakness debuff and then reapply it.

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For those of you tasked with killing Seige Engineers as Subtlety on Heroic Garrosh, I'll share what I've learned.

 

Out of stealth, open up with Garrote -> SnD -> Premed + Ambush -> Ambush -> Evis -> Backstab -> Evis

 

This will generally be enough to kill the first engineer if all of your trinkets are up and your engineer killing partner (or team) is worth their salt.  If your engineer team struggles to get him down before his cast finishes, you can use shadow blades with your first ambush to ensure enough CP for another Backstab -> Evis.  If this still isn't enough, consider shadow dancing and replacing each Backstab with Ambush (though it can lead to being energy starved as his cast is about to complete)

 

This is the only situation in this entire xpac (sans pvp) that I've found opening with Garrote to be advantageous for the subtlety opener. A single CP from garrote is more than enough time on SnD for the engineer. This minimizes the GCDs, Energy, and CP needed to get up a bleed effect, maximize Find Weakness, and start SnD.

 

If anybody else has a more effective way of killing the engineers as Subtlety, I'd more than welcome the information.

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5.4.7 Hotfixes: March 18

  • Resolved an issue where Vanish modified by Glyph of Vanish was incorrectly causing the Subterfuge effect to trigger twice. Vanish will now cancel its effect when the duration of Subterfuge expires.

 

I learned about this change today after having my rotation butchered in SoO yesterday not knowing what had happened. When removing Glyph of Vanish from Shadowcraft, I only see a DPS loss of 1660. I can't imagine the change being that insignificant in terms of overall DPS loss. Any thoughts?

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I can't imagine the change being that insignificant in terms of overall DPS loss.

What change do you mean here? Swapping out Glyph of Vanish or Blizzard resolving the bug? If the latter, I very much doubt that the occasional second Subterfuge proc, which was clearly a bug, was accounted for in Shadowcraft.

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