Jessamy

Death Knight: Simple Questions thread reboot -- new kinder gentler rule-7-free zone

209 posts in this topic

Hello everyone,

I'm playing on my DK as tank for quite some time:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/wildhammer/yoshie/advanced
Everything worked fine so far. Last night we got our first few tries on Garosh normal. I know its a last boss of this tier and its supposed to be tough, but it showed me that my gear wont save me for long time. So I'm finding ways to improve all the stuff.

You can find my armory link, at the beginning of this topic.

At the moment i do have following trinkets:
Vial of Living Corruption

Rook's Unlucky Talisman

Thok's Tail Tip
I tried to use Thok's over Rook's to get some more mastery + parry on proc. Which is leading for my question, is there some sort of mastery cap? Or its just as much as you can get. While finding on several forums i found none. So what do you guys think? Is there any limit?

One thing i found out, that my parry rating is way higher then my dodge rating. And its not twice as much as i used to find in guides. So reforge parry into dodge?
 

Edited by Seticek

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Mastery does have a cap, but it's a soft cap, and very situational.  If your blood shield is consistently expiring before it's used up, you have more mastery than you need.  Where that point is for you is something you have to decide for yourself, and it may well not be an issue.

 

Your parry is significantly higher than your dodge for several reasons.

  • You're using the swordshattering runeforge.  This parry isn't affected by diminishing returns (and is therefore excluded from the parry / dodge balance formulae) as parry rating is, but it also doesn't grant crit from riposte as parry rating does.
  • Strength from gear grants parry (but again, not parry rating).
  • Dodge suffers from twice as much diminishing return as parry does.
  • Tank gear this expansion just has a lot of parry on it.

In order to maximize avoidance in theory we should make sure our dodge and parry are properly balanced to reduce diminishing returns.  But if we do that, our gains are going to be very small and there's a hidden cost.  When we parry, our next autoattack swing (white damage hit) is hasted.  More melee attacks means more scent of blood procs, more blood worms, and more personal dps.  And unlike parry, dodge doesn't do this.

 

So if you carefully reforge and select gems to balance your avoidance stats you're not doing things wrong.  But not doing that is fine too.

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Is the tier-16 4pc worth getting  as a DW frost dk? Or is it smarter to gear for straight mastery/crit (especially because these items can be warforged). If 4pc was viable I'd op the pants out since they're the only tier slot that doesnt carry mastery. Thanks in advance

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Hi, I recently re-spec'd my alt DK to frost and was wondering if you always leave 1 death/frost rune available when you have an unholy rune up for obliterate when playing DW. Thanks! (playing blood tap)

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Can someone shine some light on why the Asian raiding scene, it seems that UH dps is much more prevalent then Frost? Majority of the top 50 parses for unholy are all Asian, where frost has all regions. 

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Hi, I recently re-spec'd my alt DK to frost and was wondering if you always leave 1 death/frost rune available when you have an unholy rune up for obliterate when playing DW. Thanks! (playing blood tap)

No, it's better to use the rune for a howling blast (or soul reaper). If you have an unholy rune available already, then it's good to use a frost or death rune for obliterate. But don't hold on to them.

Not only is howling blast a stronger attack in terms of damage per rune, holding on to resources interrupts our resource feedback loop. When you spend runes, you gain runic power. And when you spend runic power, you gain runes.

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Can someone shine some light on why the Asian raiding scene, it seems that UH dps is much more prevalent then Frost? Majority of the top 50 parses for unholy are all Asian, where frost has all regions. 

 

Mainly 2 reasons:

 

1. We  have better gears.  A 10-man raid gives the same ilevel gears (553 non-heroic) as EU&US does. But 25-man raid gives +8 ilevel (that is 561 non-heroic) gears. 

2. We gear up much faster. In EU&US, you guys can only do either a 10-man raid or 25-man raid, but we can do them both. 10-man SoO does not share CD with 25-man in KR&TW&CN

 

And (given that Unholy DK has a relatively small population) I personally think we have a much larger population, especially DK. 

Edited by Dmt

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Can anyone explain to me how 5.24% crit is better than 2,812 str.  I've tried the full crit gems and my damage looked horrible.  There is another DK in my guild who is also full str and priortizes mastery over crit and he is doing extremely well.  Basically I want to know why crit is supposedly better than str and if I should try it again.

 

I play Unholy Sliippy Barthilas US

Edited by Sliippy

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Didn't know where else to get this question answered.

How much damage does the T16 4set do when you're frost? Is it worth it?

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Just watching logs my T-16 4pc does about 2-3% of my total damage on Normal/Heroic boss fights in SoO. So, hardly worth it if you ask me

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Worth it compared to what?  Breaking the set bonus for warforged off set pieces gets you more stats, and maybe you can get closer to the perfect stats.  But will that make up the 2-3% damage the set bonus was giving you?

 

Probably not, but if you want to make sure you can replace an item or two in your gear set in the Ask Mr. Robot web tool.  Then optimize gems and reforges in the new gear set, and export it as a simulationcraft profile.  In simc, import your character from the armory, and then paste the text from Mr. Robot at the end of the armory profile.  The sim will run both at the same time and let you compare and see which is better.

 

For what it's worth, 2-3% does seem representative, not just an individual anecdote.  Here are some sim evaluations for how much set bonuses do (for all 3 specs) at a few different gear levels:

 

http://www.destinysoftworks.com/2013/09/frost-4-set-mistake.html

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I have played around with SimCraft the last couple of days (and used a fortune on gems, potions and cigarettes hehe) and I still have ~43,000 too low DPS. My DPS should, acording to SimCraft, be 161,746 in a 350 sec. fight (Tank and Spank with average skill). I test this against Highlord's Nemesis Trainer in Ebon Hold (I know that isn't the same as what SimCraft does, but it's the only dummy I know of that can be used as single target with HB, DoT's and what not) and get (with a few errors) 118322 (last fight, but all the fights I have done have been close). I have macroed in Blood Tap, Pillar of Frost, Anti-Magic Shell and Potion of Mogu Power. Using every one of them as soon as they are up (and I hit Howling Frost). I use SpellFlash since I don't react fast enough to the runes.

 

1. I notice that SimCraft has my Ghoul up every minute, even though it is on a 120 sec timer (even says so in the description of the ability in SimCraft).

2. My ghoul and army perform well inside the standard deviation.

3. I use Potion of Mogue Power before I call the army followed by raise dead. I then use D&D (only time during the fight) to start the action.

4. SimCraft is set to a 350 second fight while I do it until my ghoul is ready the third time (about 360 seconds).

5. I have reforged, enchanted and gemmed acording to stat weights suggested by SimCraft (with max itterations, plots and reforge plots). I used askmrrobot.com. I had to divide them by 2 since str was at 10.24 and that site doesn't accept stats above 9.99. Also, askmrrobot.com put my hit at 8.26%, which is well above the cap.

 

Any suggestions?

Isn't askmrrobot.com good enough?

Isn't SpellFlash good enough?

 

Sincerely

Desperate Player

 

Character is Angelhearth on EU-Aszune

 

The result from SimCraft is attached.

 

Edit

Forgot to say that I don't use Soul Reaper as it has no effect on a dummy. That's -8,875 DPS, but still missing way too much.

Angelhearth-Aszune_140104_0558.rar

Edited by Angelhearth

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What is the current bis gear for unholy when crit>haste>mastery?

Edited by d00mgiv3r

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Where did you get that stat priority?  Did you get it from a web site, from your own feelings, or from simulationcraft results?  The best way to find a stat priority for choosing gear upgrades is to run a 10k+ iteration simulation of your own character armory with scaling factors turned on for the stats you're interested in comparing.  At a minimum, check the boxes for strength, crit, haste, and mastery.  Weapon dps is also useful.  Attack power, hit, and expertise may be interesting but shouldn't affect your gear decisions, so you don't need to compare those.

 

If you're more interested in gearing for the end goal than your current status, Mendenbarr (the frost and unholy guide author here and at Icy Veins) has a lot of great information on his personal blog that will probably answer your question.  You can find that here:

 

http://www.destinysoftworks.com/

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I have a few quick ones

What is the best openers for maximum DPS? so far I seem to be lacking heavily in raids . Here is the the way I open

1.howlblast 2.plaugestrike 3. Oblit 4. frost strike . And soul reaper when its time , I then normally have to use horn of winter and use up fro strikes on killing machine when oblits are on cool down . I took plague leech and runic empowerment for rune regen. I'd this viable or am I just wasting my time and DPS . Thanks for your time

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1.) How much Mastery Need i that Mastersimple > Mastercomplicated?

 

2.) T16 4 Set Boni better then Heroic Mastery/Crit Items?

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Is Evil Eye of  Galakras real better then Skeers Bloodsoaked Talisman? I mean i only need 1 Skill from the reduce of Galakras Eye. Pillar of frost from 1 Minute to 42 sek. is real nice but is it better then permant 2111 Strenght + crit proc that let me crit 99% of my Skills in his active Time.

 

I dont need Empower Runeweapon so often cause i have no Problems with runes or runic power since i Play with Plague Leech.

I dont need Army of Dead more then 1 Time and this is the start of the battle

I dont need Icebound Fortidude

I dont need Outbreak since i read the guide here

I donte need Antimagic Shell cause i have the Glyph and 45 sek Cd i can handle, i dont need 32 sek.

 

 

So the only one Thing i wnat to know is, Pillar of frost 18 sek reduce > permant  2111 Strenght + Crit Proc or is it <

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Hello !! i just want to know what kind of dps should i be doing as a 561 DW frost dk ? keep in mind i don't have any legendary yet! :) 

thanks ! 

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I realize some of these questions are a bit dated but there are no answers so here we go.

I have played around with SimCraft the last couple of days (and used a fortune on gems, potions and cigarettes hehe) and I still have ~43,000 too low DPS. My DPS should, acording to SimCraft, be 161,746 in a 350 sec. fight (Tank and Spank with average skill). I test this against Highlord's Nemesis Trainer in Ebon Hold (I know that isn't the same as what SimCraft does, but it's the only dummy I know of that can be used as single target with HB, DoT's and what not) and get (with a few errors) 118322 (last fight, but all the fights I have done have been close). I have macroed in Blood Tap, Pillar of Frost, Anti-Magic Shell and Potion of Mogu Power. Using every one of them as soon as they are up (and I hit Howling Frost). I use SpellFlash since I don't react fast enough to the runes.

 

1. I notice that SimCraft has my Ghoul up every minute, even though it is on a 120 sec timer (even says so in the description of the ability in SimCraft).

2. My ghoul and army perform well inside the standard deviation.

3. I use Potion of Mogue Power before I call the army followed by raise dead. I then use D&D (only time during the fight) to start the action.

4. SimCraft is set to a 350 second fight while I do it until my ghoul is ready the third time (about 360 seconds).

5. I have reforged, enchanted and gemmed acording to stat weights suggested by SimCraft (with max itterations, plots and reforge plots). I used askmrrobot.com. I had to divide them by 2 since str was at 10.24 and that site doesn't accept stats above 9.99. Also, askmrrobot.com put my hit at 8.26%, which is well above the cap.

 

Any suggestions?

Isn't askmrrobot.com good enough?

Isn't SpellFlash good enough?

 

Sincerely

Desperate Player

 

Character is Angelhearth on EU-Aszune

 

The result from SimCraft is attached.

 

Edit

Forgot to say that I don't use Soul Reaper as it has no effect on a dummy. That's -8,875 DPS, but still missing way too much.

Askmrrobot has its uses, but generally reforging isn't one of them. A website that's never let me down is WoWreforge.com.
 
As for the parse, It's hard to say without a combat log. One thing I did notice is that you mentioned that you use a pot before casting army/raise dead, which is suboptimal. Pets no longer snapshot stats and so all you're doing is losing valuable uptime on the pot.
 
I'd also urge you to see if you're using obliterate or not, which many players have abandoned but is still in the simcraft profile.

I have a few quick ones
What is the best openers for maximum DPS? so far I seem to be lacking heavily in raids . Here is the the way I open
1.howlblast 2.plaugestrike 3. Oblit 4. frost strike . And soul reaper when its time , I then normally have to use horn of winter and use up fro strikes on killing machine when oblits are on cool down . I took plague leech and runic empowerment for rune regen. I'd this viable or am I just wasting my time and DPS . Thanks for your time

A strong pull should look something like this:

7-4: Army of the Dead

3: Raise Dead

2: Horn of Winter

1 :Pre-pot + Death's Advance

0: Pillar of Frost

 

After that it would be useful to know if you're playing DW or 2H.

 

 

 

1.) How much Mastery Need i that Mastersimple > Mastercomplicated?

 

2.) T16 4 Set Boni better then Heroic Mastery/Crit Items?

 

1. Mastersimple is almost always a loss on paper, but when following the priority it is much much easier to perfectly execute the Mastersimple rotation, which is what leads it to be a gain over Mastercomplicated. If you can execute Mastercomplicated flawlessly in a raid enviornment then you should still use that. However, the higher amount of mastery you have, the less of a loss it becomes. 

 

2. In parses, the 4 set does only about 2-3% of your overall damage, so if that heroic item can close that gap then yes. If you're referring to a specific piece then it would be helpful to know which item in question.

 

Hey can someone tell me the best website(s) for DK class news?

Dk news at the moment is a little stale until WoD arrives but a few places to read up would be:

sonofalich.com

destinysoftworks.com

mmo-champion.com/forums/269-Death-Knight

 

 

Is Evil Eye of  Galakras real better then Skeers Bloodsoaked Talisman? I mean i only need 1 Skill from the reduce of Galakras Eye. Pillar of frost from 1 Minute to 42 sek. is real nice but is it better then permant 2111 Strenght + crit proc that let me crit 99% of my Skills in his active Time.

 

I dont need Empower Runeweapon so often cause i have no Problems with runes or runic power since i Play with Plague Leech.

I dont need Army of Dead more then 1 Time and this is the start of the battle

I dont need Icebound Fortidude

I dont need Outbreak since i read the guide here

I donte need Antimagic Shell cause i have the Glyph and 45 sek Cd i can handle, i dont need 32 sek.

 

 

So the only one Thing i wnat to know is, Pillar of frost 18 sek reduce > permant  2111 Strenght + Crit Proc or is it <

Evil Eye of Galakras starts to shine when you can take advantage of constant AMS soaking. Other than that, they're about equal. 

 

 

Hello !! i just want to know what kind of dps should i be doing as a 561 DW frost dk ? keep in mind i don't have any legendary yet! :)

thanks ! 

This is very difficult to give a straight answer for. Raid encounters have an enormous amount of different variables which will influence your dps for better or for worse. Running a sim puts you at ~270k single target with raid buffs but if you can manage 250-260k then you've nailed it.

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What is the best way to share results from a simcraft simulation? Copy and paste the xml or csv straight into your post? Upload them somewhere as a file and provide a link? Upload screenshots of the results? Upload the html file itself into google drive and provide a download link?

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Some people do the screenshot thing.  I like to save the simc results and then open that saved file.  Simc saves results as standard html so they open in your default web browser, and then you can just right click to save any images as you normally do.

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I am a noob dk player, and my item level is 528 on tw sever (i am not sure if the item level is same as US server)

I've got a 2H weapon, and I am using DW frost right now (MH 528 off hand 502)

I want to switch to unholy because I haven't try unholy yet. 

Is unholy viable at such low item level? Is there any big difference in DPS between unholy and frost?

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Scourge Strike’s damage has been increased by 50%.

• Necrosis’ damage has been increased by 67%.

• Unholy Might now increases Strength by 5% (down from 10%).

 

-5% of the overal Strength.... I wonder does it looks like a buff or a nerf?

Edited by Ypog

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