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JamesVZ

PvE to PvP transfers are long overdue.

485 posts in this topic

The point about overcrowding on PvP servers is debatable, but unlikely. Sure, maybe everyone on PvE would transfer over to PvP, but equally (probably more, based off comments in this thread), is that lots of people on these crowded PvP servers would transfer to guilds on PvE servers if they knew it wasn't a one-way trip. When my old guild quit raiding, there were a few PvE guilds that I really liked and considered app'ing to, but the fact that I'd have to close the door on returning "home" meant I didn't bother. It doesn't sound like I'm the only person in that boat.

More to the point, Blizzard allows PvP->PvP transfer for overcrowded servers, so the problem still exists currently. I'm not sure how badly it would affect recruiting, but closing transfers to overpopulated realms entirely, while allowing PvE to PvP more generally would be a fine compromise.

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Your first point: No, I don't think making all servers PvP is the solution either. I *prefer* the PvE ruleset. I would prefer to stay within it. The problem is that sometimes other things would outweigh the PvE ruleset - for example, if I found the perfect guild to transfer to, perfect raid times, open spot, people I got along with, etc, and they were on PvP, if it was an option, I'd overlook the server ruleset to gain all those other things, just as you might accept a slightly non-ideal schedule if everything else works out for you.

If you could find the ideal guild on PvE, I suspect there's a number of players who would want to stay on that ruleset. The problem is that the selection of high end guilds (and, similarly, high end players) is artificially restricted for both PvE and PvP players, due to the desire not to lose your PvP flag for those originating on PvP servers, and the complete inability to go PvE->PvP.

Ok, well first it seems we differ in opinion on where people would transfer from->to. I think more would come TO PvP servers, although it seems you and the other poster seem to think the opposite.

My one issue with that is what you are referring to...PvP people going to a PvE server to join some hardcore PvE guild, get high-end tier gear, then return to a PvP server? That idea doesn't seem right imho.

Your second point: BGs are not restricted to PvP servers only, so I don't see where you're going with that. You share your BG queue with PvE, PvP, RP, and RP-PvP servers - opening up transfers isn't going to change your queue times.

Understandable, however I don't login to those servers. And I know we have at least 2 PvP servers in our battlegroup (not sure if that is the same in all battlegroups), so if those 2 suddenly get an influx, it could upset our happy queue times. Again though, BG queues are not the only thing you have to wait in line for. Waiting in line while in-game isn't bad...waiting in-line to get IN the game would be horrible

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If we are allowing PVE to PVP, can we allow race changes. Orcs are actually better hunters than Trolls it seems. Wait wait, can I switch faction and just make a NElf? It's not that big a deal, it's not going to be changed. Such is life. C'est la vie.

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Ya know, WoW forums are so much easier. A simple "QQ nub" or "your armory sucks" usually is sufficient to "pwn" someone in an argument. You all require thought and actual arguments! Damn you!

Your armory sucks, no soulfrost on your merc dagger? QQ NUB! pwned lol

Just kidding.

-I do not disagree with any of you that the differences in PvP vs PvE is pretty small in terms of how I play and how others (like most of you here) play. However, I do not deny the fact that there ARE differences which favor a PvE server.

My whole point on this, is that the differences are so minute, that really, why does anyone care?

I fail to see anything but benefits for opening up PvE to PvP transfers. And not just for myself, I personally wouldn't transfer my hunter, he's dead to me. /tear

Ok, new point time (at least for me)

1) Don't you all think that opening PvE -> PvP transfers would most likely destroy PvE servers? Would you be more in favor of just making all servers PvP servers with perhaps a very few exceptions? Give players left on the few PvE servers the 1-time chance of transferring to a PvP server?

They're not dead/dying already? Some are robust, the raiding gears turning, but others are stuck in a mire, not progressing at all due to a lack of solid players to raid there.

Same can go for some PvP servers, I guess a server merge could help there, but I think a transfer option is better than a forced merge.

2) Overcrowding (again, not sure if this was covered). I'm not sure on exact numbers, but to my (ignorant) thoughts, I think there are many more PvE servers than PvP. If that is the case, these PvP servers would become overcrowded. Only twice have I ever had a queue to login to my server, and it was for about 10 seconds. Queue'ing for BGs rarely takes over 15 minutes at most! I don't care for a bunch of people from any server (pvp or pve) to come over en'masse to ours and clog up the queues. This is why I would think my first point would be a better solution.

I highly doubt so many people would transfer to a particular server/battlegroup that that sort of problem would occur, if it did, well, I guess I don't have a solution for that.

3) Most importantly, I want more PvP. I'm all down for people coming to our server (as long as it doesn't get overcrowded as mentioned in #2). I want people on PvP servers who won't run away when you attack, who will call in reinforcements if needed, and who won't just stand there as you kill them.

One can only dream I suppose!

/cheer

I wouldn't mind if more people came to my server to give me more victi...er, players to kill.

As for carebears who run away when I attack them, that gives me the lulz, cause I just chase em down and remind them what kind of server they're on.

/cheer back

[Edit]

If we are allowing PVE to PVP, can we allow race changes. Orcs are actually better hunters than Trolls it seems. Wait wait, can I switch faction and just make a NElf? It's not that big a deal, it's not going to be changed. Such is life. C'est la vie.

Trolls actually make better MM and SV hunters! Plus...Orcs are fugly. Troll for life, son.

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Ok, new point time (at least for me)

1) Don't you all think that opening PvE -> PvP transfers would most likely destroy PvE servers? Would you be more in favor of just making all servers PvP servers with perhaps a very few exceptions? Give players left on the few PvE servers the 1-time chance of transferring to a PvP server?

2) Overcrowding (again, not sure if this was covered). I'm not sure on exact numbers, but to my (ignorant) thoughts, I think there are many more PvE servers than PvP. If that is the case, these PvP servers would become overcrowded. Only twice have I ever had a queue to login to my server, and it was for about 10 seconds. Queue'ing for BGs rarely takes over 15 minutes at most! I don't care for a bunch of people from any server (pvp or pve) to come over en'masse to ours and clog up the queues. This is why I would think my first point would be a better solution.

3) Most importantly, I want more PvP. I'm all down for people coming to our server (as long as it doesn't get overcrowded as mentioned in #2). I want people on PvP servers who won't run away when you attack, who will call in reinforcements if needed, and who won't just stand there as you kill them.

1 - The status quo is slowly destroying guilds on PVE servers. Removing the restriction changes the initial reasoning such that there is no clear "You should always choose to be on a PvP server to have more options in the future" solution. There will still be incentives for players to start off on highly successful realms, but at least they won't only choose the highly successful pvp realms, and there will be less disincentives to transferring to a PvE realm with a guild that would fit your requirements if only you didn't lose out on future PvP realm prospects.

2 - Overcrowding has nothing to do with the PvE or PvP ruleset. It's controlled purely based on population and has no reason to show up in this discussion. If you're concerned about battlegroup population balance and battleground server queues, that's also irrelevant to the ruleset and should have it's own thread. The transfer process currently will not allow transfer's in to a "full" realm (full determined by blizz).

3 - More PvP (outdoor) will require a revisiting of the honor system (which is what encourages you to kill someone) such that there's sufficient reward for outdoor pvp to be meaningful. Don't hold your breath on this, it's a non-trivial problem to solve, and blizzard has been pretty intractable about addressing issues with the existing honor system.

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My one issue with that is what you are referring to...PvP people going to a PvE server to join some hardcore PvE guild, get high-end tier gear, then return to a PvP server? That idea doesn't seem right imho.

I'm not sure this is even an issue. The pvp realms host more successful pve-oriented guilds (or did when my wife went looking) than the pve realms. We felt it was from the same effect we see in our raid groups on our pve realm: those that know how to pvp are generally better at playing the game.

So once someone levels on pvp and then chooses to participate in pve content, there's something they've already gained that doesn't get learned as quickly the other way 'round. I believe it's speed/reaction time. We've had raid members that were devoutly against pvp, even in small doses. "I rolled on a pve server for a reason," they'd say. Or even as far as "pvp sucks shit," and the like. Those folks had terrible reaction times and poor management of the global cooldown.

My take on all that is that the survival skills required to stomach leveling 1-60 in the pre-BC content was a very serious filter. Those that couldn't pass muster had a few choices: reroll or (later) transfer to a pve realm.

Back to the quote, I don't think you'd get more end-game gear on a pve realm. A good player from a pvp realm would probably dazzle the crap out of pve raiders, sure, but there are more raid slots on the pvp realms that seem to be home to a greater number of end-game progressed guilds per realm.

I don't know if this holds true for alliance guilds as well, my wife only peek through the numbers for horde guilds.

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3 - More PvP (outdoor) will require a revisiting of the honor system (which is what encourages you to kill someone) such that there's sufficient reward for outdoor pvp to be meaningful. Don't hold your breath on this, it's a non-trivial problem to solve, and blizzard has been pretty intractable about addressing issues with the existing honor system.

I love the diminishing honor returns I get when I kill the same pest (player..?) over and over until they get the point that I want them gone.

20 honor first kill..10 the next..6 after that, less and less each time, kinda decreases my will to repeatedly kill them (Even though it makes me smile every time I see an opponent go down).

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1 - The status quo is slowly destroying guilds on PVE servers. Removing the restriction changes the initial reasoning such that there is no clear "You should always choose to be on a PvP server to have more options in the future" solution. There will still be incentives for players to start off on highly successful realms, but at least they won't only choose the highly successful pvp realms, and there will be less disincentives to transferring to a PvE realm with a guild that would fit your requirements if only you didn't lose out on future PvP realm prospects.

again though, that opens up doors to transfer off, gearing up, then transferring back. I think that is something Blizzard is specifically trying to avoid.

On multiple occasions PvP guilds on our server have prevented or greately stalled other guilds from getting into instances. More difficult to progress if you can't even get in the instance =P

(yes, those times are rare, but just a random example).

The thought of "new content is out - lets transfer to a PvE realm to do it with no interruptions then transfer back when we complete it" resounds in my mind....possibly (probably) incorrectly, but there none the less.

2 - Overcrowding has nothing to do with the PvE or PvP ruleset. It's controlled purely based on population and has no reason to show up in this discussion. If you're concerned about battlegroup population balance and battleground server queues, that's also irrelevant to the ruleset and should have it's own thread. The transfer process currently will not allow transfer's in to a "full" realm (full determined by blizz).

That was based on my assumption that people would be wanting to go from PvE -> PvP. Given the lower amount of PvP realms (and even fewer RP-PvP, like mine)...seems like it isn't out of the realm of possibility to overcrowd a place given how many people seem to want to open the transfers.

3 - More PvP (outdoor) will require a revisiting of the honor system (which is what encourages you to kill someone) such that there's sufficient reward for outdoor pvp to be meaningful. Don't hold your breath on this, it's a non-trivial problem to solve, and blizzard has been pretty intractable about addressing issues with the existing honor system.

The thought of that makes me moist...don't get my hopes up.

PvE servers = Duck Hunt while using that laser-pointing helmet shooting thing for Nintendo!

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I'm not sure this is even an issue.

Its all speculation. If all these questions were answered with definites...this discussion would be quite boring.

The changes people are proposing could open doors I (and others) have mentioned. Certainly not saying those things definitely would happen.

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You know how many reported posts this thread has generated lately? Way too many.

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