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WWS and 2.4 sample logs

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When you search for fights vs a specific boss it would be nice if the default view listed total damage done in addition to what is there now (Date, Raid DPS, Guild name and Class setup). Would be helpful in sorting out at a glance which parses not to bother looking at in certain fights.

Forgive me for this, but on damage done, wouldn’t this be exactly the same for virtually all kills where the boss does not heal? (allowing for a slight varience in over killing the boss at the end of the fight)

Boss has X health, so cause X damage on boss, boss dies.

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Forgive me for this, but on damage done, wouldn’t this be exactly the same for virtually all kills where the boss does not heal? (allowing for a slight varience in over killing the boss at the end of the fight)

Boss has X health, so cause X damage on boss, boss dies.

It's mostly meant so you don't open up a kill thinking "Whoa, these guys do bad ass DPS!" only to find out that they included some NPCs as pets; that does still produce the same overall health on most fights, but it makes a difference on Teron Gorefiend for example.

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It's mostly meant so you don't open up a kill thinking "Whoa, these guys do bad ass DPS!" only to find out that they included some NPCs as pets; that does still produce the same overall health on most fights, but it makes a difference on Teron Gorefiend for example.

Or even worse they added (using a script) X amount of damage on each of their attacks to make their dps look awfully high.

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I understand now then, in that case then the addition would certainly make sense for ease of perusing the latest updates.

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This doesn't have anything to do with the parser itself, but it would be great if the top dps list on WWS wasn't filled with garbage parses. Adding a few filters should go a long way towards cleaning those lists up:

- Figure out an acceptable total damage range for each fight. A lot of the bad parses are simply ones that have bad merges and have double total damage. Very easy to filter these.

- Don't show anonymous logs. A large portion of the bad parses also happen to be anonymous. For top ranking purposes people are usually more than happy to take credit for their kills.

- Don't allow parses that are obviously duplicates. The combat log provides date and time, this should be pretty simple to do.

Those simple changes would go a long way towards getting workable top dps lists, rather than the garbage that's up there now for nearly every boss.

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This doesn't have anything to do with the parser itself, but it would be great if the top dps list on WWS wasn't filled with garbage parses. Adding a few filters should go a long way towards cleaning those lists up:

- Figure out an acceptable total damage range for each fight. A lot of the bad parses are simply ones that have bad merges and have double total damage. Very easy to filter these.

- Don't show anonymous logs. A large portion of the bad parses also happen to be anonymous. For top ranking purposes people are usually more than happy to take credit for their kills.

- Don't allow parses that are obviously duplicates. The combat log provides date and time, this should be pretty simple to do.

Those simple changes would go a long way towards getting workable top dps lists, rather than the garbage that's up there now for nearly every boss.

This is exactly why we created wwsscoreboard.com. I was sick of trying to cut the wheat from the chaff every single time we posted a report. It started as an internal guild project to make my life easier (Thanks for thinking of me Macked) and grew into a pretty good tool for digging into WWS.

It is also something that Lossendil is looking at. Wow Web Stats • View topic - This website might be sapping your bandwith

99% of bad damage parses are caused by bad merges where nothing actually gets merged. These consistently show as 200% damage of every other report. I won't give away our exact methodology for wwsscoreboard, but the band we use is much smaller then anything less then 190% of the baseline is good. However, I'd bet that we'd eliminate 99.5% of what we eliminate if we just used 190% of baseline as our standard.

I've never understood why people continue to post anonymously. Death and Taxes is taking 16 minutes to kill Illidan still, yet they posted it. Trust me, even the best guilds wipe. We all know this, we experience it and we move on. Take anonymous off. Seriously. Or at least give us a simple option to remove it from the rankings.

While there are some parses that are duplicates, a surprising number are actually caused by bad inserts into the WWS top reports, where a report is being placed in twice. 30-40% of the duplicates fall into this category. Look at how many duplicates point to the exact same raid id. I was frankly surprised by that. Fixing this is simple though. If the same character appears in the same boss kill for the same guild on the same server on the same day (Adjusted to UTC), don't display it a second time. This even takes care of separate guildmates posting their own logs. If there are two reports with different damage and kill time, accept the longer report as valid (As it will capture more data) and if time is the same, accept the higher damage (As it will also capture more data) provided it falls into the damage band set for that encounter.

Finally, give guilds the ability to place reports on WWS that will not appear in rankings. This will allow those guilds that post edited logs (Such as removing Teron Ghosts or erasing the first few seconds of a pull) to post reports without skewing the rankings. A simple flag in the Report Settings would do.

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The ability to display DPS/Healing by phase of an encounter - ie, 'splitting' an encounter into phases that can be viewed independent of one another

This can be done. Go to the specific kill/attempt/whatever you want to look at, then go to Timeline & Splitting. It isn't automatic, but it lets you view each phase, or even specific bit of time, as it's own report.

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The Death Replay is a fantastic feature, but it would be great if we could get something like Assessment's Flat Death List, which shows the deaths in the order they happened for a given attempt. When reviewing wipes, I find it extremely useful to be able to review the deaths in the order they happened, since there's often a cascading effect. This is currently somewhat difficult to do via WWS.

I've also noticed that the Death Replay will end up taking more than one page, and hitting the "next" link ends up with just a raw log page rather than one filtered by the player who died. Not a huge deal, but this confused me for a while (I couldn't figure out why the Death Replay missed the line "X has died.").

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I am also interested in sample combat logs from the 2.4 PTR. I have a few short ones that I have used to make an offline log parser. I need longer ones from dungeon runs/raids etc to make sure it works correctly. The tool I am working on is on curse as Wow Log Parser.

Wow Log Parser | World of Warcraft Tools | Curse

I would appreciate it if someone could post one since I cannot get my character copy to go through, hehe.

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Hi everyone,

Thank you for your suggestions.

If I sort them by number of requests, we currently have :

  1. Sorting (Search engine)
  2. Death management (Sorting deaths by time)
  3. Graphs
  4. Statistics presentation

  • The search engine will be revamped from the scratch soon after the 2.4 client release. It includes everything that can be put into a search (comparing guilds, classes into a single report, cross-report comparisons, etc.)
  • It's in the TODO list, but currently no release date.
  • Graphs are on the work, and we do not plan to put bar charts when graphs are better (DPS, TPS, etc.)
  • The render engine will be revamped from the scratch for the 2.4, and we're thinking about DPCS and things like that but nothing has been modelized yet (about new statistics).

The ability to split phases is not that easy to build in a generic way, because phases are not declared in the CL. If you have ideas feel free to post them.

Erroneous reports are not that easy to find. Each combat can be easily analysed, but a generic engine is really harder. Nevertheless we have some good ideas (that has been listed for the majority of them on most forums). As a side note we don't like exceptions treatment because the current WWS overall engine is a huge load yet, and will be increased in some ways at the 2.4. But don't worry, it is planned, we can't keep cheated reports longer.

I'm sorry to answer so late, but the 2.4 take us much time because we have to rebuild everything from the scratch (parser, network communications, server apps, and many other things). As many things have to be recoded it's the best time for us to restart on better bases. So put every relevant ideas you have else if it has been said before.

If the experience is fine, I think I will stay closer with the EJ community in the future for the enhancement of WWS. And I want to thank the EJ guild for its help. :)

Nevertheless, any poll we'll do regarding new features or modifications to WWS will be done on our forum because I can manage them easier, so stay tuned.

Don't forget that we need logs and logs and logs, and bigger is better but everything is okay. Currently we're particularly interested in different points of view of the same encounter (raids are the best for that) and as many as you can.

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The ability to split phases is not that easy to build in a generic way, because phases are not declared in the CL. If you have ideas feel free to post them.

Well yah not every fight works with this, but take Kael'thas for example. Phase 2 begins when Telonicus dies, and ends X seconds later when the advisors come back to life. Phase 4 begins when Kael emotes "Alas, sometimes one must take matters into one's own hands. Balamore shanal!", and Phase 5 begins when he emotes "I have not come this far to be stopped! The future I have planned will not be jeopardized! Now, you will taste true power!"

Not every fight would work with phase splits, especially the ones that are revolving doors where 2 phases repeat indefinitely. But I think it would be an amazing tool for fights like Kael, Vashj, and anything else that has very definite boundries between phases. Obviously right now there aren't too many fights where this is possible (Kael, Vashj, Magtheridon, Alar, Zul'Jin are about the only ones I see a definite division between phases), but its definitely something that would be nice to have when looking to the future. It could have more application on some Sunwell bosses or things in WoLK.

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Malan, the problem with shouts usually is ... they don't show up in the combat log. So unless you have a parallel log of the chatlog or a mod logging boss yells, you are kinda lost.

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Well that was just the easy division. If the shouts aren't in the log then Phase 4 begins when Kael begins to cast a Fireball or is hit for the first time, and phase 5 begins at the first gravity lapse being cast.

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It would be nice to be able to do a "custom split" of an encounter not based upon "time line of the raid" but being able to select actual events in the combat log as the start and stop points of the split.

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@Mardraum,

We'll see what the search engine will provide, but it is a search feature. So the question is : will the search allow event searches. I can't answer yet, but we'll thougth about that.

@Malan,

Yes, as I can remember every encounter with relevant phases has shouts. And any way we can think of to split need two things : a manual entry for each phase on each boss, and a significant cpu load added.

We currently think about changing the way reports are loaded to avoid multiple queuing when browsing logs, so it will free cpu load.

but we really need to be cautious with that because if we miss something it can result in a total overload of the system.

I'm a raid player, and I'm the first to wish a phases split, but our first restriction is a hardware restriction.

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Erroneous reports are not that easy to find. Each combat can be easily analysed, but a generic engine is really harder. Nevertheless we have some good ideas (that has been listed for the majority of them on most forums). As a side note we don't like exceptions treatment because the current WWS overall engine is a huge load yet, and will be increased in some ways at the 2.4. But don't worry, it is planned, we can't keep cheated reports longer.

90% of erroneous reports are not cheated. They are generally caused by combat log snippets or bad merging. These show up quickly when you band a known good kill and only accept kills in that range. I can't do moroes in WWS Scoreboard, and I can't pull the damage done to just moroes himself without a second pull, which I won't do. You however can.

If you filter reports on the following 2 criteria

1. Damage to the boss within 20% of a known baseline

2. Time of the fight > 15 seconds.

You will eliminate 99% of the junk. If 2.4 combat logs record entering combat (Or you trap entering combat through the WWS Addon) you should be able to eliminate almost everything by verifying that an entering combat was seen before (Or within a few seconds of) the boss being engaged. That would eliminate almost everything except for the few groups of idiots that think that editing logs and uploading them to WWS to show how great they are, actually makes them great.

For duplicates, you just check if a player has been seen already for that boss for that day and time (Converted to UTC) and allowing +- a couple of hours for bad clocks. Since you have that for everything (I don't because of anonymous reports), it should be a lot easier when building the top reports for a boss. That would take care of almost every case where multiple people in the same guild upload a report. The WWS Addon should also be able to capture guild name and server, so that should eliminate people that can't set their guild name to the same thing as their guildmates.

Feel free to send me an e-mail if you want more details. I've offered them to Lossendil as well. I know your busy and this is at the bottom of your list right now.

In other news, the first 6k sustained boss DPS report occured yesterday. 6824 sustained for the encounter. (Damage/Time). WWS Scoreboard

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For duplicates, you just check if a player has been seen already for that boss for that day and time (Converted to UTC) and allowing +- a couple of hours for bad clocks. Since you have that for everything (I don't because of anonymous reports), it should be a lot easier when building the top reports for a boss. That would take care of almost every case where multiple people in the same guild upload a report.

Speaking of which, your guild has quite a few cases of multiple same-day same-fight same-player reports uploaded.

Wow Web Stats

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Speaking of which, your guild has quite a few cases of multiple same-day same-fight same-player reports uploaded.

Wow Web Stats

No, those are a bug in the ranking code. The URLs are identical. No idea why that is happening.

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Well yah not every fight works with this, but take Kael'thas for example. Phase 2 begins when Telonicus dies, and ends X seconds later when the advisors come back to life. Phase 4 begins when Kael emotes "Alas, sometimes one must take matters into one's own hands. Balamore shanal!", and Phase 5 begins when he emotes "I have not come this far to be stopped! The future I have planned will not be jeopardized! Now, you will taste true power!"

Not every fight would work with phase splits, especially the ones that are revolving doors where 2 phases repeat indefinitely. But I think it would be an amazing tool for fights like Kael, Vashj, and anything else that has very definite boundries between phases. Obviously right now there aren't too many fights where this is possible (Kael, Vashj, Magtheridon, Alar, Zul'Jin are about the only ones I see a definite division between phases), but its definitely something that would be nice to have when looking to the future. It could have more application on some Sunwell bosses or things in WoLK.

Here's the problems, though:

Kael - phase 2 can overlap into phase 3. Yes, there's a time limit, but do you really want the last 50k damage on the Axe listed in Phase 3? What about Capernian (and potentially others) overlapping to Phase 4? In that case, it would be easier to define certain mobs to belong to a specific phase, and perhaps mention the time the phases overlapped.

Vashj - likewise, Striders, Naga, and even a few pesky elementals are still around when Phase 3 begins.

Al'ar - Extra embers can still be up depending on the strategy used (blow up the bear vs. kill all adds in Phase 1 anyway)

Mag - it's possible to be finishing Channelers once Magtheridon is unbanished.

In all of those cases, it'd be nice to see how much damage was left to do in the next phase, but I'd rather see how long the overlap between phases is. Obviously, what people want to see in those encounters will vary.

Personally, I'd just like Reliquary to parse correctly, since that's where we are right now, and I'd like to be able to analyze that fight a bit better.

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So, have anyone done any raids lately on the ptr, it would be really nice to get a log from a real raid to work with :-)

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Just wondering regarding WWS...

When you upload the logs to the site, you get this neat "split by encounter" feature where you can look into individual boss fights. However, when you do local logging (and hosting on your own web space) you just get one big generic log, without the nice ability to split the log up by encounter. Is there going to be a way to get this "split by encounter" feature for self hosted logs? I was just curious because the WWS site tends to be pretty sluggish at some point, and having the split log feature for local logging would let people host their own logs, and relieve some stress on the WWS site.

I was also wondering if the new combat log would allow the tracking of priest's PoM ability properly. By "properly" I mean attributing each PoM's heal to the correct priest. (Since each mob has it's own ID now, I figured maybe each PoM would have it's own as well. This seemed a good place to ask and find out.)

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Is there going to be a way to get this "split by encounter" feature for self hosted logs?

All that splitting is done on the server, you'd have to have a copy of the server code and the Java Servlet environment to run it in to host reports yourself. Lossendil has talked about supplying the front end code that you could integrate into your website that would pull the processed data down from the WWS servers and display on your website. Unfortunately this would still be subject to any server performance issues.

Lossendil is stopping development on the v1 client that generates reports you can self-host. However, he is willing to share the code if someone is interested in stepping up to manage development on the project.

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Given that you're asking for suggestions, may I suggest two things for the current end-game:

1) Fix Reliquary of Souls so it actually shows up as a single boss, instead of P1, blank space, and P3. No idea why your parses shows it this way, but it does, and always (afaik) has. One single boss, determined from moment of pull in P1 right through to P3. If you want to make it precise, have it select P1->spawn of mana regen adds, P2->spawn, P3->death since P1 and P2 don't actually 'die', but just hit 1% and transition.

2) You know the Illidari Council? They're a council. Stop labelling them as individual bosses as the name of the fight.

and then one suggestion overall:

3) Your site is awesome. Buy some more bandwidth, and put more ads on it or something. Because it's been getting progressively slower as time goes on. This is probably due to increasing user presence; hence, ads should increase revenue accordingly, to pay for bandwidth, making users happy, which is an increasing cycle of goodness. Basically, don't make your Unlimited Account customers have to wait for 2 minutes to display a parse. They're paying for performance.

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I've got a suggestion, not sure if it's entirely feasable though. At the moment, and also in 2.4, the final Lifebloom tick, Prayer of Mending and Earth Shield are counted as healing done by the player receiving the heal, not by the player who casted the heal. Maybe it's possible to add an option like "all PoM/LB/ES healing should be counted for this person", as sometimes there is only one holy priest/resto druid/resto shaman in the raid. I even got an idea to make it more sophisticated (and more complex) for when there are multiple healers of such classes in the raid, but I wonder if this would be possible first. Would really like to see some "true" healing meters, as I have no clue how much healing my final blooms do at any given raid, let alone how powerful ES/PoM is.

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