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Irise

A New Raiding Metric

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Just the other day I was listening to a sports podcast where the host and his guest were talking about baseball statistics; specifically, which stats are the most creative/important and which stats were going to be the "next big thing." I feel like this thread is much the same way. We've gotten so good at gathering data and WWS reports are so crucial to getting the most out of your guild's performance. On top of this, encounters are tuned so tightly (kudos Blizzard!) that as a top-end guild you can't reasonably get by without these metrics. I really like the idea of generating new statistics/metrics by which you can measure raider performance, and as a healer I think you need to be willing to get creative when putting these metrics together.

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A "reaction time" metric could be interesting, just by comparing time stamps.

One easy thing: The amount of time a curse is on a player during archimond.

Something a bit more complicated: A Player dies, looking back at the time stamps, was their a heal being cast on that player? If so, how soon before he died was it being cast? When would it have landed if the player had lived 1 second longer?

Number of Ticks from Consecrates, Blizzards and Flamestrikes on Council.

There are a number of things which require quick reaction from players in individual encounters which could be measured in this way.

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A "reaction time" metric could be interesting, just by comparing time stamps.

One easy thing: The amount of time a curse is on a player during archimond.

Something a bit more complicated: A Player dies, looking back at the time stamps, was their a heal being cast on that player? If so, how soon before he died was it being cast? When would it have landed if the player had lived 1 second longer?

Number of Ticks from Consecrates, Blizzards and Flamestrikes on Council.

There are a number of things which require quick reaction from players in individual encounters which could be measured in this way.

I'm not sure how well this metric can be measured by a mod. Does a friendly player get notified of the start of a cast by another player? if not you would require every single person to be running the mod and comparing timestamps would be exceedingly tricky because of latency. Already healers often see a heal land on their screen but then get informed that the target has died because of latency.

Also without a full log of everyone's actions and conditions you cannot determine what is slow healing and what is simply triage and cutting losses. Sometimes the person dieing is simply not high on the priority list. For example on council towards the end you are down to one raid healer due to random deaths and that healer has the choice of saving a rogue on interrupt duty or random hunter 3. I would heal the rogue and hope the hunter can pot or bandage. To really determine how things were going you would need to also analyse the hunter and the rogue to see if there was something they could have done to survive/take less damage. Simply giving the metric that the raid healer took 3 seconds to start casting on the hunter is not of any value in and of itself.

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Sounds like an awesome idea, problem with recruiting and maintaining a solid raider core is that you cannot always see the small details regarding a raiders performance, a new tool to evaluate your raiders would be most helpfull

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In reply to a few people above - the raw numbers and reports are never going to give you the full story. Even WWS can be very misleading.

For example, mage X only shows 2 decurses for an entire Archimonde kill. Maybe nobody near him got cursed, maybe he was letting a nearby druid do all the work. What would be more useful to me in this instance is seeing how good each person is at actually decursing - if people are taking 2-3 ticks of the curse before it's getting removed, clearly that isn't good enough.

The consumables report is something I would also like to see focused on who uses health pots/stones and why. Believe it or not, there are still people in my guild who don't use health consumables even when they're going to die; why, I don't know. But it's still an issue for us, and we're working on Illidan.

If anyone is actually thinking seriously about putting these sorts of things together, send me a PM!

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I've been tossing around a few ideas for this sort of thing recently, since my professional life has so far focused on the research and analysis fields. I definitely think WWS needs some sort of analysis tool that can generate reports rather than just numbers.

A few ideas I've had include:

- a consumables report. Who consistently uses potions/healthstones versus who doesn't. Who dies while their pots/healthstones aren't on cooldown (ie they don't use them). Who uses flasks/elixirs/oils/food buffs etc.

- a "retard" report -- people who consistently take avoidable damage (eg Supremus volcanos, Doomfire, etc).

- a decurse/dispell report. Dispell counts by themselves are fairly meaningless; I want to see who is taking damage from dispellable abilities, organised by who eventually dispelled them. This shows you how quick/attentive your dispellers are (or aren't).

Yes, I'm aware that most of this information can be extracted from WWS with time and patience, but having tools that could automatically do this would be a massive help.

I'd put something like this together myself, but I don't have a lot of programming experience :(

Interested to hear other people's thoughts.

It is hard to objectively judge by any of the above results. Can you say someone that has taken less mana pots a worst player? It could be just so that he didn't need it, the consumables report won't tell the difference of needing and not using from not needing and not using.

The retard report is not entirely accurate either. Say Supremus volcanoes like you've listed, no one can control who it spawns on. If it spawns on top of your best player three times, no matter how fast he is, he will take a tick or two, are you going to call him a retard now?

Thirdly, the dispell report, if you have a very fast and dedicated dispeller he is going to dispel a very large portion of the total count. Any "semi-fast" dispellers won't be able to get the dispell off, can you call them bad dispellers just because they are slower than one person but faster than half the world?

Raid performance measured by numbers alone are very sketchy, say heal meters, the lowest healer may not be your worst healer. Reliability is the important attribute, whether each raider is well capable of completing his task with colours when he is required to be under the spotlight, and that numbers and reports can never really tell.

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Our Illidan flame tank went afk during phase one. Does this new metric account for this? Wouldn't that count negatively against the healers?

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